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	<title>Comments on: Polygamy Laws Expose Our Own Hypocrisy</title>
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	<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2007/08/20/polygamy-laws-expose-our-own-hypocrisy/</link>
	<description>Res ipsa loquitur (&#34;The thing itself speaks&#34;)</description>
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		<title>By: a</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2007/08/20/polygamy-laws-expose-our-own-hypocrisy/#comment-239082</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[a]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jun 2011 01:29:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[I dont see why polygamy is illegal.
If theyre going to let gays get married they might as well allow plural marriage]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I dont see why polygamy is illegal.<br />
If theyre going to let gays get married they might as well allow plural marriage</p>
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		<title>By: Gina</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2007/08/20/polygamy-laws-expose-our-own-hypocrisy/#comment-215125</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gina]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Mar 2011 11:18:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.wordpress.com/2007/08/20/polygamy-laws-expose-our-own-hypocrisy/#comment-215125</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A good resource to answer questions on polygamy found here: http://www.evangelical.us/polygamy/polygamy-new-testament.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A good resource to answer questions on polygamy found here: <a href="http://www.evangelical.us/polygamy/polygamy-new-testament.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.evangelical.us/polygamy/polygamy-new-testament.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Bruce in Jersey</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2007/08/20/polygamy-laws-expose-our-own-hypocrisy/#comment-148633</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bruce in Jersey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 00:48:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.wordpress.com/2007/08/20/polygamy-laws-expose-our-own-hypocrisy/#comment-148633</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Polygamy might work tolerably well for the people who choose it, but if the practice became widespread it would be disastrous to a society founded on egalitarian concepts.

Why? Because it reduces the opportunities for some men to find a mate at all. (To simplify this discussion, I am ignoring the implications of gay marriage as well as polyandry. The latter as far as I know is nowhere practiced in Western societies.) For example, in some Islamic countries men are allowed up to 4 wives. But since the man is expected to support his wives, plural marriage is an option only for the well-off. This readily leads to a market in wives foreclosed to the poor and limited for the middle class.  Social tensions follow, not only from class resentment but simply from the fact that unmarried men tend to be more stressed than married men - even in our society.

And there&#039;s the math. Assuming a society with a roughly 50-50 gender ratio, if one man has four wives, then 3 must go without any. This is what leads to the &quot;lost boy&quot; phenomenon among the &quot;fundamentalist&quot; LDS sects in the US.  The surplus males have to be pushed out of the community or they will make trouble.

Adultery and serial monogamy raise issues of social disruption, but I agree with Prof. Turley that criminal prosecution won&#039;t improve things. But adultery once found out will be settled between the spouses (one way or another), and serial monogamy doesn&#039;t freeze out other possible mates.  Polygamy cannot be tolerated by a state that aspires to equality.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Polygamy might work tolerably well for the people who choose it, but if the practice became widespread it would be disastrous to a society founded on egalitarian concepts.</p>
<p>Why? Because it reduces the opportunities for some men to find a mate at all. (To simplify this discussion, I am ignoring the implications of gay marriage as well as polyandry. The latter as far as I know is nowhere practiced in Western societies.) For example, in some Islamic countries men are allowed up to 4 wives. But since the man is expected to support his wives, plural marriage is an option only for the well-off. This readily leads to a market in wives foreclosed to the poor and limited for the middle class.  Social tensions follow, not only from class resentment but simply from the fact that unmarried men tend to be more stressed than married men &#8211; even in our society.</p>
<p>And there&#8217;s the math. Assuming a society with a roughly 50-50 gender ratio, if one man has four wives, then 3 must go without any. This is what leads to the &#8220;lost boy&#8221; phenomenon among the &#8220;fundamentalist&#8221; LDS sects in the US.  The surplus males have to be pushed out of the community or they will make trouble.</p>
<p>Adultery and serial monogamy raise issues of social disruption, but I agree with Prof. Turley that criminal prosecution won&#8217;t improve things. But adultery once found out will be settled between the spouses (one way or another), and serial monogamy doesn&#8217;t freeze out other possible mates.  Polygamy cannot be tolerated by a state that aspires to equality.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Price</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2007/08/20/polygamy-laws-expose-our-own-hypocrisy/#comment-136850</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael Price]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jun 2010 10:02:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.wordpress.com/2007/08/20/polygamy-laws-expose-our-own-hypocrisy/#comment-136850</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Women are more than likely to be afraid to involve the law in an abusive relationship with a polygamist. &quot; Gee Swathmore Mom is that because they know that they&#039;re breaking the law themselves?  Don&#039;t answer that question firstly because it&#039;s rhetorical and secondly because you don&#039;t know anything about it.  But I won&#039;t change your mind, because those who decide without evidence never decide with evidence.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Women are more than likely to be afraid to involve the law in an abusive relationship with a polygamist. &#8221; Gee Swathmore Mom is that because they know that they&#8217;re breaking the law themselves?  Don&#8217;t answer that question firstly because it&#8217;s rhetorical and secondly because you don&#8217;t know anything about it.  But I won&#8217;t change your mind, because those who decide without evidence never decide with evidence.</p>
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		<title>By: Swarthmore mom</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2007/08/20/polygamy-laws-expose-our-own-hypocrisy/#comment-104479</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Swarthmore mom]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 16:15:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.wordpress.com/2007/08/20/polygamy-laws-expose-our-own-hypocrisy/#comment-104479</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Warren Jeffs]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Warren Jeffs</p>
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		<title>By: Swarthmore mom</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2007/08/20/polygamy-laws-expose-our-own-hypocrisy/#comment-104478</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Swarthmore mom]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 16:07:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.wordpress.com/2007/08/20/polygamy-laws-expose-our-own-hypocrisy/#comment-104478</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Women are more than likely to be afraid to involve the law in an abusive relationship with a polygamist. You won&#039;t change my mind and I hope you know nothing about my relationships.I wrote practised before instead of practiced. Just thinking about Warren Jeffers and those folks upsets me.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Women are more than likely to be afraid to involve the law in an abusive relationship with a polygamist. You won&#8217;t change my mind and I hope you know nothing about my relationships.I wrote practised before instead of practiced. Just thinking about Warren Jeffers and those folks upsets me.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Price</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2007/08/20/polygamy-laws-expose-our-own-hypocrisy/#comment-104471</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael Price]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 15:21:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.wordpress.com/2007/08/20/polygamy-laws-expose-our-own-hypocrisy/#comment-104471</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[First the claim &quot;It is unlikely that any network is going to air The Polygamist Eye for the Monogamist Guy or add a polygamist twist to Everyone Loves Raymond.&quot; is evidently wrong.  Google &quot;HBO&quot; &amp; &quot;Big Love&quot;.  Secondly &quot;Swarthmore mom&quot; you&#039;re wrong polyandry is popular in Tibet and Nepal as mentioned in the article.  If there is abuse in a polygamous relationship then the law can deal with it, just like it does in monogamous ones.  That it &quot;seems&quot; to you to be &quot;laden with abuse&quot; when you give no indication of witnessing it directly once or having any experience relevant to judging it is irrelevant, as is my opinion of your relationships.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First the claim &#8220;It is unlikely that any network is going to air The Polygamist Eye for the Monogamist Guy or add a polygamist twist to Everyone Loves Raymond.&#8221; is evidently wrong.  Google &#8220;HBO&#8221; &amp; &#8220;Big Love&#8221;.  Secondly &#8220;Swarthmore mom&#8221; you&#8217;re wrong polyandry is popular in Tibet and Nepal as mentioned in the article.  If there is abuse in a polygamous relationship then the law can deal with it, just like it does in monogamous ones.  That it &#8220;seems&#8221; to you to be &#8220;laden with abuse&#8221; when you give no indication of witnessing it directly once or having any experience relevant to judging it is irrelevant, as is my opinion of your relationships.</p>
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		<title>By: Rashtrakut &#187; Blog Archive &#187; A conservative lawyer&#8217;s case for legalizing marriage</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2007/08/20/polygamy-laws-expose-our-own-hypocrisy/#comment-103998</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rashtrakut &#187; Blog Archive &#187; A conservative lawyer&#8217;s case for legalizing marriage]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jan 2010 02:23:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.wordpress.com/2007/08/20/polygamy-laws-expose-our-own-hypocrisy/#comment-103998</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] of Philip I the Magnanimous, Landgrave of Hesse) is even weaker.  As Jonathan Turley noted in this article a few years ago, the rationale and the language used by the Supreme Court in its 1878 decision [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of Philip I the Magnanimous, Landgrave of Hesse) is even weaker.  As Jonathan Turley noted in this article a few years ago, the rationale and the language used by the Supreme Court in its 1878 decision [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Swarthmore mom</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2007/08/20/polygamy-laws-expose-our-own-hypocrisy/#comment-103232</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Swarthmore mom]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 15:45:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.wordpress.com/2007/08/20/polygamy-laws-expose-our-own-hypocrisy/#comment-103232</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Female polygamy is not sanctioned by religions except in a rare form practised in China. The male seems to be in control in most of these situations and to me it seems laden with abuse.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Female polygamy is not sanctioned by religions except in a rare form practised in China. The male seems to be in control in most of these situations and to me it seems laden with abuse.</p>
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		<title>By: Buddha Is Laughing</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2007/08/20/polygamy-laws-expose-our-own-hypocrisy/#comment-103229</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Buddha Is Laughing]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 15:32:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.wordpress.com/2007/08/20/polygamy-laws-expose-our-own-hypocrisy/#comment-103229</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m with Steve.

Marriage is two things.

1) A bond between people that has nothing to do with paper.

No laws will ever govern the vagaries of the human heart.  People will love what and who they love.  It is simply the way of things.

2) A contractual relationship.

The general rule in contracts is that if it&#039;s not illegal you can contract for it.  Ergo, restrictions on marriage forms is a public policy decision.  In this case, a public policy decision that is prime facie biased and unfair and based on religious reasoning, not scientific fact.  Governance to be good must be based in reality, not wishful thinking.

I have stated why I&#039;m against polygamy.  I was also explicit in that it was my choice, for me.  If others want to live in an arrangement that I think is a disaster waiting to happen in most cases, I&#039;m happy to let them do it as long as they don&#039;t try to force me to come along.  And I am really, really sorry for that pun.  But I digress and lie about being sorry.  What other pair bondings humans choose to engage in is their business unless it involves children (universally acknowledged to be evil behavior) or the dead (ditto plus a HUGE public health hazard).  

It quite simply not my business IN EVERY EQUITABLE AND LEGAL SENSE OF THE WORD.  I&#039;m not a party to the contract by choice and I&#039;m not a forced party because it somehow &quot;offends me&quot;.  Polygamy offends me.  It offends my sense of logic.  But it does not offend my choice not to engage in it that practice.  Live and let live.  What people do in their own homes is their business.  If they aren&#039;t asking you to dance, what&#039;s it matter, wallflower?

Open the contractual forms of marriage to allow for the full spectrum of sexual behavior.  From monogamous heterosexual and homosexual unions to polygamous communes.  To do otherwise fights against human nature and therefore causes unnecessary suffering.  To fight the tao is to invite disaster.  And right now, the law is fighting human nature.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m with Steve.</p>
<p>Marriage is two things.</p>
<p>1) A bond between people that has nothing to do with paper.</p>
<p>No laws will ever govern the vagaries of the human heart.  People will love what and who they love.  It is simply the way of things.</p>
<p>2) A contractual relationship.</p>
<p>The general rule in contracts is that if it&#8217;s not illegal you can contract for it.  Ergo, restrictions on marriage forms is a public policy decision.  In this case, a public policy decision that is prime facie biased and unfair and based on religious reasoning, not scientific fact.  Governance to be good must be based in reality, not wishful thinking.</p>
<p>I have stated why I&#8217;m against polygamy.  I was also explicit in that it was my choice, for me.  If others want to live in an arrangement that I think is a disaster waiting to happen in most cases, I&#8217;m happy to let them do it as long as they don&#8217;t try to force me to come along.  And I am really, really sorry for that pun.  But I digress and lie about being sorry.  What other pair bondings humans choose to engage in is their business unless it involves children (universally acknowledged to be evil behavior) or the dead (ditto plus a HUGE public health hazard).  </p>
<p>It quite simply not my business IN EVERY EQUITABLE AND LEGAL SENSE OF THE WORD.  I&#8217;m not a party to the contract by choice and I&#8217;m not a forced party because it somehow &#8220;offends me&#8221;.  Polygamy offends me.  It offends my sense of logic.  But it does not offend my choice not to engage in it that practice.  Live and let live.  What people do in their own homes is their business.  If they aren&#8217;t asking you to dance, what&#8217;s it matter, wallflower?</p>
<p>Open the contractual forms of marriage to allow for the full spectrum of sexual behavior.  From monogamous heterosexual and homosexual unions to polygamous communes.  To do otherwise fights against human nature and therefore causes unnecessary suffering.  To fight the tao is to invite disaster.  And right now, the law is fighting human nature.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Goldman</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2007/08/20/polygamy-laws-expose-our-own-hypocrisy/#comment-103216</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve Goldman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 15:02:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.wordpress.com/2007/08/20/polygamy-laws-expose-our-own-hypocrisy/#comment-103216</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If religion is/has been the basis for prosecution of plural marriage then we might consider a further separation between church and state?

Religion. particularly,so called christian values used by the courts to substantiate their actions against individuals means that we might do better to get the state entirely out of the bedrooms of the land and let marriage be a legal union bewtween parties however those parties might be defined. Then gays and lesbians and traditional twosomes and plural arrangements of all sorts might be achived.

-Steve.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If religion is/has been the basis for prosecution of plural marriage then we might consider a further separation between church and state?</p>
<p>Religion. particularly,so called christian values used by the courts to substantiate their actions against individuals means that we might do better to get the state entirely out of the bedrooms of the land and let marriage be a legal union bewtween parties however those parties might be defined. Then gays and lesbians and traditional twosomes and plural arrangements of all sorts might be achived.</p>
<p>-Steve.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony Clayton</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2007/08/20/polygamy-laws-expose-our-own-hypocrisy/#comment-37744</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tony Clayton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 12:31:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.wordpress.com/2007/08/20/polygamy-laws-expose-our-own-hypocrisy/#comment-37744</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Partly the things that make a person detest polygamy possibly, is ignorance on the subject of relationship psychology.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Partly the things that make a person detest polygamy possibly, is ignorance on the subject of relationship psychology.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony Clayton</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2007/08/20/polygamy-laws-expose-our-own-hypocrisy/#comment-37743</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tony Clayton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 12:30:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.wordpress.com/2007/08/20/polygamy-laws-expose-our-own-hypocrisy/#comment-37743</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[True, your article. I think the law needs updating]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>True, your article. I think the law needs updating</p>
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		<title>By: Woman Arrested on False Reporting Charges in Colorado Springs &#8212; Tied to Polygamy Case in Texas &#171; JONATHAN TURLEY</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2007/08/20/polygamy-laws-expose-our-own-hypocrisy/#comment-11558</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Woman Arrested on False Reporting Charges in Colorado Springs &#8212; Tied to Polygamy Case in Texas &#171; JONATHAN TURLEY]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Apr 2008 10:45:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.wordpress.com/2007/08/20/polygamy-laws-expose-our-own-hypocrisy/#comment-11558</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] in such an arrangement, particularly given its religious foundations. For a prior column, click here. It is rare for polygamists to actually seek marriage licenses. In past cases, authorities first [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] in such an arrangement, particularly given its religious foundations. For a prior column, click here. It is rare for polygamists to actually seek marriage licenses. In past cases, authorities first [...]</p>
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		<title>By: North Carolina Couple Charged With Bigamy &#171; JONATHAN TURLEY</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2007/08/20/polygamy-laws-expose-our-own-hypocrisy/#comment-11274</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[North Carolina Couple Charged With Bigamy &#171; JONATHAN TURLEY]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 10:29:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.wordpress.com/2007/08/20/polygamy-laws-expose-our-own-hypocrisy/#comment-11274</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] I have been a critic of polygamy laws because I believe that consenting adults should be able to choose their lifestyles so long as it does not involve harming children or others. Polygamy is an obnoxious practice to the vast majority of Americans, but it is also a good-faith religious practice to many. Click here. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I have been a critic of polygamy laws because I believe that consenting adults should be able to choose their lifestyles so long as it does not involve harming children or others. Polygamy is an obnoxious practice to the vast majority of Americans, but it is also a good-faith religious practice to many. Click here. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Fabio Vitale</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2007/08/20/polygamy-laws-expose-our-own-hypocrisy/#comment-7714</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Fabio Vitale]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 23:36:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.wordpress.com/2007/08/20/polygamy-laws-expose-our-own-hypocrisy/#comment-7714</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dear professor, My name is Fabio, I am a Lawyer in Brasil. I have been working on an article which deals with the problem of polygamy. In Brasil, eve though we have a roman civil-law system, there are decisions in favour of recognition of homosexual or more properly based the affection between people of the same sex. The courts have used maily the work of foreing jurisdoctors, such as Dworkin or Alexi, to reduce the power of the written law, in order to apply constitutional principles. The first decision os the Brazilian Supreme Court (www.stf.gov.br) was based on the principles of &quot;dignity of the human being&quot;, &quot;right to persue hapiness&quot;, &quot;equality of rigths&quot; and so on. I am having a hard time in findind jurisprudence on polygamy cases, and I would really appretiate if you could help me.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear professor, My name is Fabio, I am a Lawyer in Brasil. I have been working on an article which deals with the problem of polygamy. In Brasil, eve though we have a roman civil-law system, there are decisions in favour of recognition of homosexual or more properly based the affection between people of the same sex. The courts have used maily the work of foreing jurisdoctors, such as Dworkin or Alexi, to reduce the power of the written law, in order to apply constitutional principles. The first decision os the Brazilian Supreme Court (www.stf.gov.br) was based on the principles of &#8220;dignity of the human being&#8221;, &#8220;right to persue hapiness&#8221;, &#8220;equality of rigths&#8221; and so on. I am having a hard time in findind jurisprudence on polygamy cases, and I would really appretiate if you could help me.</p>
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		<title>By: Polygamist Goes on Trial &#171; JONATHAN TURLEY</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2007/08/20/polygamy-laws-expose-our-own-hypocrisy/#comment-114</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Polygamist Goes on Trial &#171; JONATHAN TURLEY]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 16:13:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.wordpress.com/2007/08/20/polygamy-laws-expose-our-own-hypocrisy/#comment-114</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] debate is not relevant to Jeffs who is accused of conventional crimes. For prior columns, click  here and  [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] debate is not relevant to Jeffs who is accused of conventional crimes. For prior columns, click  here and  [...]</p>
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