Comments on: Justice Department Opens Formal Criminal Investigation — Finds Credible Allegations of Criminal Conduct in CIA Tapes Scandal http://jonathanturley.org/2008/01/02/justice-department-opens-formal-criminal-investigation-finds-credible-allegations-of-criminal-conduct/ Res ipsa loquitur ("The thing itself speaks") Mon, 28 May 2012 08:13:07 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: deeply worried http://jonathanturley.org/2008/01/02/justice-department-opens-formal-criminal-investigation-finds-credible-allegations-of-criminal-conduct/#comment-5513 Mon, 07 Jan 2008 00:55:31 +0000 http://jonathanturley.org/2008/01/02/justice-department-opens-formal-criminal-investigation-finds-credible-allegations-of-criminal-conduct/#comment-5513 Oh, and there is another article by Hofstra’s Julian Ku:

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=762365

In fact, he has more than a few articles up on SSRN that are worth reading (when one can find the time that is).

]]> By: deeply worried http://jonathanturley.org/2008/01/02/justice-department-opens-formal-criminal-investigation-finds-credible-allegations-of-criminal-conduct/#comment-5510 Sun, 06 Jan 2008 23:00:06 +0000 http://jonathanturley.org/2008/01/02/justice-department-opens-formal-criminal-investigation-finds-credible-allegations-of-criminal-conduct/#comment-5510 That is a huge issue Patty, and one that is in a constant state of evolution… I would defer to Professor Turley on this, but can give you a great cite if you want to read a current treatment of what is a legally and politically highly-charged issue nowadays: an article by Andre Nollkaemper in AJIL, “Internationally Wrongful Acts in Domestic Courts”

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1077521

Thanks for your entry above about the DW “rock”! I was unavailable for a couple of days having a pleasant time in the hospital hooked up to all kinds of tubes and things and then convalescing back at the home desmesnes. Great way to escape housework and social obligations! Alls well now. :)

]]> By: Patty C http://jonathanturley.org/2008/01/02/justice-department-opens-formal-criminal-investigation-finds-credible-allegations-of-criminal-conduct/#comment-5477 Sun, 06 Jan 2008 05:23:55 +0000 http://jonathanturley.org/2008/01/02/justice-department-opens-formal-criminal-investigation-finds-credible-allegations-of-criminal-conduct/#comment-5477 Great citation DW – Thanks.

UNCAT ie UNITED NATIONS Convention Against Torture…

How is International Law applied to these cases, domestically, and in addition otherwise, in the US – especially toward an ‘enemy combatant’ with no rights as a soldier under Geneva much less as a “person” unspecified, these days?

]]> By: deeply worried http://jonathanturley.org/2008/01/02/justice-department-opens-formal-criminal-investigation-finds-credible-allegations-of-criminal-conduct/#comment-5432 Fri, 04 Jan 2008 19:04:23 +0000 http://jonathanturley.org/2008/01/02/justice-department-opens-formal-criminal-investigation-finds-credible-allegations-of-criminal-conduct/#comment-5432 UNCAT Article 3:

“Article 3
1. No State Party shall expel, return (“refouler”) or extradite a person to another State where there are substantial grounds for believing that he would be in danger of being subjected to torture.”

The United States is facially in breach of this Article.

In the long haul, I speculate, it might be easier for a Special Prosecutor to gather evidence from the trail of the renditions than it will be for the “in-house” tortures. There is a chain of custody that will be very difficult to hide from scrutiny.

]]> By: Patty C http://jonathanturley.org/2008/01/02/justice-department-opens-formal-criminal-investigation-finds-credible-allegations-of-criminal-conduct/#comment-5426 Fri, 04 Jan 2008 16:13:15 +0000 http://jonathanturley.org/2008/01/02/justice-department-opens-formal-criminal-investigation-finds-credible-allegations-of-criminal-conduct/#comment-5426 Excellent question and one I have been asking and offering as a possible solution since Fredo.

No license, no qualification, no job. End of problem.

]]> By: mespo727272 http://jonathanturley.org/2008/01/02/justice-department-opens-formal-criminal-investigation-finds-credible-allegations-of-criminal-conduct/#comment-5425 Fri, 04 Jan 2008 15:58:52 +0000 http://jonathanturley.org/2008/01/02/justice-department-opens-formal-criminal-investigation-finds-credible-allegations-of-criminal-conduct/#comment-5425 As an attorney, I am less concerned about the investigation protocols than about the attorneys who sold out their profession and their ethics to provide legal cover for this abomination. Why are no leaders of our profession talking about that? Is there anything the state bars can do? Would they even have the guts to investigate a complaint?

]]> By: Patty C http://jonathanturley.org/2008/01/02/justice-department-opens-formal-criminal-investigation-finds-credible-allegations-of-criminal-conduct/#comment-5397 Fri, 04 Jan 2008 00:21:24 +0000 http://jonathanturley.org/2008/01/02/justice-department-opens-formal-criminal-investigation-finds-credible-allegations-of-criminal-conduct/#comment-5397 Where is DW – my ‘rock’ with whom I weigh in regularly? We’re a team!

Mukasey did himself, the Senate, the Congress and most of all, the People of the United States a great disservice by not answering the question as to the well-established and longstanding act of torture specified at his confirmation hearings, therein, known as water boarding.

As a result, no one, outside of the Administration, trusts him or anything he says.

Having put Dubya’s shallow approval ahead of what he must know is truly worthy and counts more than gold at this time in out history, as does every true American, must have come at a high price indeed
-at least I would hope so!

HE can only pray it is worth it.

]]> By: watajob http://jonathanturley.org/2008/01/02/justice-department-opens-formal-criminal-investigation-finds-credible-allegations-of-criminal-conduct/#comment-5396 Fri, 04 Jan 2008 00:17:43 +0000 http://jonathanturley.org/2008/01/02/justice-department-opens-formal-criminal-investigation-finds-credible-allegations-of-criminal-conduct/#comment-5396 Hugh,
Unfortunately, I was referring not just to the unfolding “circus” of an investigation but rather to this grand experiment called “democracy”.
Thar being said, emails have been dispatched to both senators and representative expressing my views on the situation. I want to be on record as going down, swinging.

]]> By: jonathanturley http://jonathanturley.org/2008/01/02/justice-department-opens-formal-criminal-investigation-finds-credible-allegations-of-criminal-conduct/#comment-5391 Thu, 03 Jan 2008 20:07:21 +0000 http://jonathanturley.org/2008/01/02/justice-department-opens-formal-criminal-investigation-finds-credible-allegations-of-criminal-conduct/#comment-5391 The most important thing is to demand action from your Senators and representative. Ask what they have done publicly on the issue of calling for a special counsel. Moreover, Congress needs to define the investigation in term of torture — something both parties are resisting.

]]> By: MusicProf http://jonathanturley.org/2008/01/02/justice-department-opens-formal-criminal-investigation-finds-credible-allegations-of-criminal-conduct/#comment-5390 Thu, 03 Jan 2008 19:40:03 +0000 http://jonathanturley.org/2008/01/02/justice-department-opens-formal-criminal-investigation-finds-credible-allegations-of-criminal-conduct/#comment-5390 Thank you, thank you, thank you for your illuminating comments on Olbermann’s show last night, accessed today through Crooks&Liars. What can we do?

]]> By: Patty C http://jonathanturley.org/2008/01/02/justice-department-opens-formal-criminal-investigation-finds-credible-allegations-of-criminal-conduct/#comment-5386 Thu, 03 Jan 2008 18:52:38 +0000 http://jonathanturley.org/2008/01/02/justice-department-opens-formal-criminal-investigation-finds-credible-allegations-of-criminal-conduct/#comment-5386 Got it. Common ground.

So what? Mukasey’s Report Card reads:
“Plays Well with Others”

Personally, I think either just makes the argument for a
Special Prosecutor LOUDER…

]]> By: jonathanturley http://jonathanturley.org/2008/01/02/justice-department-opens-formal-criminal-investigation-finds-credible-allegations-of-criminal-conduct/#comment-5384 Thu, 03 Jan 2008 18:05:30 +0000 http://jonathanturley.org/2008/01/02/justice-department-opens-formal-criminal-investigation-finds-credible-allegations-of-criminal-conduct/#comment-5384 Thanks PC. It was also interesting to see the selection of the Eastern District which has the closely connections to the intelligence community. Why not D.C.? The communications with the commission, many meetings, the White House, other agencies are all located in D.C. The CIA is in Virginia but the misrepresentations were directed at D.C. and a D.C. court.

]]> By: Patty C http://jonathanturley.org/2008/01/02/justice-department-opens-formal-criminal-investigation-finds-credible-allegations-of-criminal-conduct/#comment-5382 Thu, 03 Jan 2008 17:52:55 +0000 http://jonathanturley.org/2008/01/02/justice-department-opens-formal-criminal-investigation-finds-credible-allegations-of-criminal-conduct/#comment-5382 I didn’t feel the warm and fuzzies there, either.

For anyone who did not catch the conversation last night, as I almost did not, you may hear JT with KO on MSNBC.com

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/22478733#22478733

As always, worth a listen.

]]> By: jonathanturley http://jonathanturley.org/2008/01/02/justice-department-opens-formal-criminal-investigation-finds-credible-allegations-of-criminal-conduct/#comment-5374 Thu, 03 Jan 2008 15:41:54 +0000 http://jonathanturley.org/2008/01/02/justice-department-opens-formal-criminal-investigation-finds-credible-allegations-of-criminal-conduct/#comment-5374 Thank you, Hugh. The critical issue will whether, as expected, Justice narrowly defines the investigation to exclude or marginalize the torture crime. Congress has promised its own investigation, but many of us are highly skeptical. The Senate held a meaningless hearing on the issue after the disclosure that was dismissed by many as cosmetic.

]]> By: Hugh Gilpatric http://jonathanturley.org/2008/01/02/justice-department-opens-formal-criminal-investigation-finds-credible-allegations-of-criminal-conduct/#comment-5371 Thu, 03 Jan 2008 15:26:40 +0000 http://jonathanturley.org/2008/01/02/justice-department-opens-formal-criminal-investigation-finds-credible-allegations-of-criminal-conduct/#comment-5371 After listening to what Mr. Turley had to say on Olbermann last night, I don’t think he is optimistic for any real investigation. Is there any way to pressure the Democratic leadership or the Justice Department to appoint an independent investigator?

Well said last night, Mr. Turley.

]]> By: watajob http://jonathanturley.org/2008/01/02/justice-department-opens-formal-criminal-investigation-finds-credible-allegations-of-criminal-conduct/#comment-5337 Wed, 02 Jan 2008 21:47:03 +0000 http://jonathanturley.org/2008/01/02/justice-department-opens-formal-criminal-investigation-finds-credible-allegations-of-criminal-conduct/#comment-5337 So, we’re sending the fox to check out what’s happening in the hen house. Is there a spine left amongst ANY of the Democratic leadership or have they all become invertebrate sea creatures of one type or another? I dearly wish I could share in the good professor’s optimism regarding our current sad state of affairs but can’t help but feel that I am witnessing the beginning of the end.

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