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	<title>Comments on: Word to the Wise:  Fourth Circuit Rules that Firestone Employee Not Entitled to Extra Days Off Due to His Faith</title>
	<atom:link href="http://jonathanturley.org/2008/02/12/word-to-the-wise-fourth-circuit-rules-that-firestone-employee-not-entitled-to-extra-days-off-due-to-his-faith/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2008/02/12/word-to-the-wise-fourth-circuit-rules-that-firestone-employee-not-entitled-to-extra-days-off-due-to-his-faith/</link>
	<description>Res ipsa loquitur (&#34;The thing itself speaks&#34;)</description>
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		<title>By: deeply worried</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2008/02/12/word-to-the-wise-fourth-circuit-rules-that-firestone-employee-not-entitled-to-extra-days-off-due-to-his-faith/#comment-8469</link>
		<dc:creator>deeply worried</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Mar 2008 01:17:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.wordpress.com/?p=1093#comment-8469</guid>
		<description>Zac,

The era of considering the legislative history in statutory construction at the high court is OVER.

At least as far as Justice Scalia is concerned.  That has been his crusade for the last zillion years and he has been undeservedly successful....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zac,</p>
<p>The era of considering the legislative history in statutory construction at the high court is OVER.</p>
<p>At least as far as Justice Scalia is concerned.  That has been his crusade for the last zillion years and he has been undeservedly successful&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Patty C</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2008/02/12/word-to-the-wise-fourth-circuit-rules-that-firestone-employee-not-entitled-to-extra-days-off-due-to-his-faith/#comment-8468</link>
		<dc:creator>Patty C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Mar 2008 01:09:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.wordpress.com/?p=1093#comment-8468</guid>
		<description>No offense. I took liberty with a bit of word-play, only, and had actually forgotten about this article.

It seems that it would be much more &#039;reasonable&#039; for a large company, like Firestone, to accommodate this employee&#039;s religious observances than it would for a small business which relies on only a few employees. Obviously, that is not a choice Firestone wished to make for this man holding this position. It would be interesting to know if he was offered a different or part-time job.

The court&#039;s reasoning is not out of line with job fairness or Equal Opportunity guidelines affecting all workers there.

Without knowing all the details, it&#039;s not clear how it could have been decided differently without appearing to offer special treatment not available to others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No offense. I took liberty with a bit of word-play, only, and had actually forgotten about this article.</p>
<p>It seems that it would be much more &#8216;reasonable&#8217; for a large company, like Firestone, to accommodate this employee&#8217;s religious observances than it would for a small business which relies on only a few employees. Obviously, that is not a choice Firestone wished to make for this man holding this position. It would be interesting to know if he was offered a different or part-time job.</p>
<p>The court&#8217;s reasoning is not out of line with job fairness or Equal Opportunity guidelines affecting all workers there.</p>
<p>Without knowing all the details, it&#8217;s not clear how it could have been decided differently without appearing to offer special treatment not available to others.</p>
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		<title>By: mespo727272</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2008/02/12/word-to-the-wise-fourth-circuit-rules-that-firestone-employee-not-entitled-to-extra-days-off-due-to-his-faith/#comment-8462</link>
		<dc:creator>mespo727272</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Mar 2008 00:13:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.wordpress.com/?p=1093#comment-8462</guid>
		<description>Joudon:

I fail to see how you are an oppressed minority in a country that is 94% religious and overwhelmingly Christian. You have public money funding your faith based initiatives, an evangelical President who mentions God more than the nation in his speeches and insists on stopping the most promising medical research for religious reasons. You also have a compliant Supreme Court who only occasionally stops us from &quot;slouching&quot; towards a theocracy, or completely turning our industry over to the Church.  On top of that you have dozens of tax free businesses masquerading as mega-churchs and serving as incubators for all manner of hypocrites and perverts. All in all, I think you Christians have it pretty good. Must you also play the victim card? LOL</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joudon:</p>
<p>I fail to see how you are an oppressed minority in a country that is 94% religious and overwhelmingly Christian. You have public money funding your faith based initiatives, an evangelical President who mentions God more than the nation in his speeches and insists on stopping the most promising medical research for religious reasons. You also have a compliant Supreme Court who only occasionally stops us from &#8220;slouching&#8221; towards a theocracy, or completely turning our industry over to the Church.  On top of that you have dozens of tax free businesses masquerading as mega-churchs and serving as incubators for all manner of hypocrites and perverts. All in all, I think you Christians have it pretty good. Must you also play the victim card? LOL</p>
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		<title>By: Joudon Ford</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2008/02/12/word-to-the-wise-fourth-circuit-rules-that-firestone-employee-not-entitled-to-extra-days-off-due-to-his-faith/#comment-8460</link>
		<dc:creator>Joudon Ford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Mar 2008 23:22:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.wordpress.com/?p=1093#comment-8460</guid>
		<description>I am heartsick for David Wise&#039;s treatment by the Fourth Circuit, for he is family, being a member of a church that is an offshoot of a common mother with my own.  While I share William Ferguson&#039;s March 1 comment, I would add that we are, as Judge Bork wrote, &quot;Slouching toward Gomorrah.&quot;  The courts increasingly favor commercial interests and the secular view against a decent respect for those of us who still revere the Creator in a manner that puts us at risk.  It seems that the predictions of a (declared) &quot;false prophet,&quot; Herbert Armstrong, are rapidly being realized, and the last hope of human freedom of worship is rapidly disappearing into the sands of time.

Hopefully, without sounding like a zealot, many of us are noting the attention given to intolerant evangelicals, and denied those of us who respect Oliver Wendell Holmes&#039; principle of the other guy&#039;s nose.  Muslims live in terror in their own land -- this one -- with little government protection.  As a doleful Christian, I mourn for the advance of these &quot;last days,&quot; for I assure you, God is watching.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am heartsick for David Wise&#8217;s treatment by the Fourth Circuit, for he is family, being a member of a church that is an offshoot of a common mother with my own.  While I share William Ferguson&#8217;s March 1 comment, I would add that we are, as Judge Bork wrote, &#8220;Slouching toward Gomorrah.&#8221;  The courts increasingly favor commercial interests and the secular view against a decent respect for those of us who still revere the Creator in a manner that puts us at risk.  It seems that the predictions of a (declared) &#8220;false prophet,&#8221; Herbert Armstrong, are rapidly being realized, and the last hope of human freedom of worship is rapidly disappearing into the sands of time.</p>
<p>Hopefully, without sounding like a zealot, many of us are noting the attention given to intolerant evangelicals, and denied those of us who respect Oliver Wendell Holmes&#8217; principle of the other guy&#8217;s nose.  Muslims live in terror in their own land &#8212; this one &#8212; with little government protection.  As a doleful Christian, I mourn for the advance of these &#8220;last days,&#8221; for I assure you, God is watching.</p>
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		<title>By: Zac</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2008/02/12/word-to-the-wise-fourth-circuit-rules-that-firestone-employee-not-entitled-to-extra-days-off-due-to-his-faith/#comment-7975</link>
		<dc:creator>Zac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 16:03:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.wordpress.com/?p=1093#comment-7975</guid>
		<description>If you think it&#039;s a &#039;frivolous&#039; claim, you should read Justice Marshall&#039;s dissent in TWA v. Hardison, 432 U.S. 63.  It deals with the legislative history behind Title VII, which was amended specifically for this reason.  &quot;The primary purpose of the amendment, [Senator Randolph] explained, was to protect Saturday Sabbatarians like himself from employers who refuse &#039;to hire or to continue in employment employees whose religious practices rigidly require them to abstain from work in the nature of hire on particular days.&#039;&quot;

If this case makes it to the Supreme Court, maybe this time the Court will pay attention to Congressional intent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you think it&#8217;s a &#8216;frivolous&#8217; claim, you should read Justice Marshall&#8217;s dissent in TWA v. Hardison, 432 U.S. 63.  It deals with the legislative history behind Title VII, which was amended specifically for this reason.  &#8220;The primary purpose of the amendment, [Senator Randolph] explained, was to protect Saturday Sabbatarians like himself from employers who refuse &#8216;to hire or to continue in employment employees whose religious practices rigidly require them to abstain from work in the nature of hire on particular days.&#8217;&#8221;</p>
<p>If this case makes it to the Supreme Court, maybe this time the Court will pay attention to Congressional intent.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2008/02/12/word-to-the-wise-fourth-circuit-rules-that-firestone-employee-not-entitled-to-extra-days-off-due-to-his-faith/#comment-7887</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Mar 2008 07:14:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.wordpress.com/?p=1093#comment-7887</guid>
		<description>The weekly seventh-day Sabbath and annual festivals that he wants to observe are all listed in the Bible in Leviticus 23:1-44 of the Old Testament.  Notice in verses 1-2 that they were given by God.  They are still observed today by religious Jews and a few others.

In New Testament times Jesus would go to the synagogue on the weekly Sabbath &quot;as his custom was.&quot;  He would also go up to Jerusalem for the annual festivals like the Feast of Tabernacles, and Passover (at which time he was killed).

The Holy Spirit came on the Day of Pentecost as described in Acts 2:1-4.

Anyone who believes in God or the Bible should fully support this man&#039;s cause.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The weekly seventh-day Sabbath and annual festivals that he wants to observe are all listed in the Bible in Leviticus 23:1-44 of the Old Testament.  Notice in verses 1-2 that they were given by God.  They are still observed today by religious Jews and a few others.</p>
<p>In New Testament times Jesus would go to the synagogue on the weekly Sabbath &#8220;as his custom was.&#8221;  He would also go up to Jerusalem for the annual festivals like the Feast of Tabernacles, and Passover (at which time he was killed).</p>
<p>The Holy Spirit came on the Day of Pentecost as described in Acts 2:1-4.</p>
<p>Anyone who believes in God or the Bible should fully support this man&#8217;s cause.</p>
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		<title>By: William Ferguson</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2008/02/12/word-to-the-wise-fourth-circuit-rules-that-firestone-employee-not-entitled-to-extra-days-off-due-to-his-faith/#comment-7828</link>
		<dc:creator>William Ferguson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Mar 2008 07:59:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.wordpress.com/?p=1093#comment-7828</guid>
		<description>I grew up in a similar religion with similar beliefs.  While I no longer have those beliefs, I happen to view God in a very different context now, I know the issues of conscience this man faces for what he believes to be true - I&#039;ve been there.  I grew up facing those same issues of intolerance.

Its not whether what he believes is right or wrong theologically, or if it even makes sense, and that&#039;s always in the eyes of the observer. We should not penalize a man for following his conscience.  That seems to me to be the very essence of religious freedom in the Constitution. God knows we got enough people in this world not following their conscience. We shouldn&#039;t punish those that do. 

Why put a decent human through a torturous choice between their faith and their very livelihood?  There&#039;s something evil in that.  And it says a lot about the court who would support such a thing.  But then again maybe our courts have gotten a little too used to torture in all its forms?

I worked in airline IT departments for many years.  I was told that it was impossible for me to work in that industry because of the religious holy days I used to keep. 

What I found to be true is that most reasonable employers would rather have a worker they can trust not to steal or lie (true of ANYONE sincere about their religion) and will quite willingly make allowances for a good team worker.  My experiences with both USAir and Delta found them to be most accommodating to sincere religious needs, provided they were given advance notice.  That is especially so if the days off are unpaid and at no expense to the company.

Firestone is making a severe mistake. They send a message of intolerance to their employees and the public.  They will lose a valuable employee over something that shouldn&#039;t matter at all. 

The only ones who win in these cases are the lawyers.  May common sense and human decency prevail.  I hope he gets his job back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I grew up in a similar religion with similar beliefs.  While I no longer have those beliefs, I happen to view God in a very different context now, I know the issues of conscience this man faces for what he believes to be true &#8211; I&#8217;ve been there.  I grew up facing those same issues of intolerance.</p>
<p>Its not whether what he believes is right or wrong theologically, or if it even makes sense, and that&#8217;s always in the eyes of the observer. We should not penalize a man for following his conscience.  That seems to me to be the very essence of religious freedom in the Constitution. God knows we got enough people in this world not following their conscience. We shouldn&#8217;t punish those that do. </p>
<p>Why put a decent human through a torturous choice between their faith and their very livelihood?  There&#8217;s something evil in that.  And it says a lot about the court who would support such a thing.  But then again maybe our courts have gotten a little too used to torture in all its forms?</p>
<p>I worked in airline IT departments for many years.  I was told that it was impossible for me to work in that industry because of the religious holy days I used to keep. </p>
<p>What I found to be true is that most reasonable employers would rather have a worker they can trust not to steal or lie (true of ANYONE sincere about their religion) and will quite willingly make allowances for a good team worker.  My experiences with both USAir and Delta found them to be most accommodating to sincere religious needs, provided they were given advance notice.  That is especially so if the days off are unpaid and at no expense to the company.</p>
<p>Firestone is making a severe mistake. They send a message of intolerance to their employees and the public.  They will lose a valuable employee over something that shouldn&#8217;t matter at all. </p>
<p>The only ones who win in these cases are the lawyers.  May common sense and human decency prevail.  I hope he gets his job back.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2008/02/12/word-to-the-wise-fourth-circuit-rules-that-firestone-employee-not-entitled-to-extra-days-off-due-to-his-faith/#comment-6884</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:12:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.wordpress.com/?p=1093#comment-6884</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s hardly a frivolous claim. There are numerous recognized religious organizations who share those beliefs. An interesting question is, would Firestone been willing to make an accommodation if not hindered by the collective bargaining agreement and could the union have taken steps to help Mr. Wise if they desired? It appears his immediate supervisor was open to the possibility.

I would also contrast this to the growing &quot;family friendly&quot; movement among employers where some classes of employees seem to get accommodations made not available to others. There may be legitimate reasons to do so but it opens similar issues of fairness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s hardly a frivolous claim. There are numerous recognized religious organizations who share those beliefs. An interesting question is, would Firestone been willing to make an accommodation if not hindered by the collective bargaining agreement and could the union have taken steps to help Mr. Wise if they desired? It appears his immediate supervisor was open to the possibility.</p>
<p>I would also contrast this to the growing &#8220;family friendly&#8221; movement among employers where some classes of employees seem to get accommodations made not available to others. There may be legitimate reasons to do so but it opens similar issues of fairness.</p>
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		<title>By: News and Notes &#171; Sua Sponte</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2008/02/12/word-to-the-wise-fourth-circuit-rules-that-firestone-employee-not-entitled-to-extra-days-off-due-to-his-faith/#comment-6600</link>
		<dc:creator>News and Notes &#171; Sua Sponte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 00:13:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.wordpress.com/?p=1093#comment-6600</guid>
		<description>[...] an employee is not entitled to extra days off due to his faith.  Prof. Turley&#8217;s thoughts are here, and the court&#8217;s opinion is here.  The court&#8217;s opinion seems to turn on whether [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] an employee is not entitled to extra days off due to his faith.  Prof. Turley&#8217;s thoughts are here, and the court&#8217;s opinion is here.  The court&#8217;s opinion seems to turn on whether [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Patty C</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2008/02/12/word-to-the-wise-fourth-circuit-rules-that-firestone-employee-not-entitled-to-extra-days-off-due-to-his-faith/#comment-6558</link>
		<dc:creator>Patty C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2008 19:43:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.wordpress.com/?p=1093#comment-6558</guid>
		<description>So what are we to learn, JT, that more Cash is less Wise or that 
Fire Stone was filled to the &#039;Brim&#039;, and that the Court had &#039;Tired&#039;, 
so to speak, with frivolous religious practice accommodation claims?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So what are we to learn, JT, that more Cash is less Wise or that<br />
Fire Stone was filled to the &#8216;Brim&#8217;, and that the Court had &#8216;Tired&#8217;,<br />
so to speak, with frivolous religious practice accommodation claims?</p>
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