Comments on: Alabama Judge Orders Courtroom into a “Circle of Prayer”

By: Judge Orders White Lawyers Out Of Courtroom, Lectures Black Defendants | BigMouthFrog

Sun, 26 Oct 2008 16:36:42 +0000

[...] again, whether ordering criminal defendants to court (here) or ordering prayer circle in court (here,) judges seem to be increasingly forgetting their limits in creative sentencing or cathartic [...]

By: Ethics Charges Filed Against Praying Alabama Judge « JONATHAN TURLEY

Ethics Charges Filed Against Praying Alabama Judge « JONATHAN TURLEY — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 12:24:01 +0000

[...] interject his faith into court proceedings. He had the Ten Commandments embroidered on his robe and, as discussed earlier he asked the parties and staff in his courtroom to join in a prayer circle during a hearing earlier [...]

By: Video of Judge Accused of Ordering Whites Out of Courtroom, Then Lectures Black Defendants : BigMouthFrog

Wed, 21 May 2008 00:04:35 +0000

By: Judge Accused of Ordering Whites Out of Courtroom to Lecture Blacks « JONATHAN TURLEY

Tue, 01 Apr 2008 21:48:33 +0000

[...] again, whether ordering criminal defendants to court (here) or ordering prayer circle in court (here), judges seem to be increasingly forgetting their limits in creative sentencing or cathartic [...]

By: Susan

Susan — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 17:19:37 +0000

Kermudgeon wrote:
I would guess the separation of church & state crowd, long known to missreport events, has missreported this incident also.

****************

I’m just curious as to why being part of the “separation of church & state crowd” would be a problem for you or anyone else. Also, how do you know for a fact that this event was “misreported?”

By: deeply worried

deeply worried — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 00:19:53 +0000

Right Mespo,

Defiance of the law has long been a standard political stepping stone for judges in Alabama. Judge Moore was even considering a third party run for President.

The ACLU is the standard whipping boy. Judges like McKathan must pray that the ACLU file against them.

By: Mespo727272

Mespo727272 — Tue, 25 Mar 2008 23:53:43 +0000

The Alabama Judicial website declares that “[a]ll justices and judges, with the exception of municipal court judges, are elected by the qualified voters of a respective court’s jurisdiction for six-year terms.” For those dwindling supporters of elected judges, I offer Judge Mckathan as exhibit A against the practice. The good jurist clearly knew the practice was prohibited by the canons of judicial ethics,and just good common sense, but plowed on anyway.I suspect an election is in the offing and the Judge needs an issue. What better one than the ACLU v. McKathan in Alabama? When judges quit being lawyers and start being political hacks this nonsense goes on, and demagoguery is the order of the day.

By: niblet

niblet — Tue, 25 Mar 2008 23:33:35 +0000

Looks to me like all this is is a case of someone complaining to our “beloved” ACLU, so all we know is that someone ALLEGED the judge acted improperly.

Certianly we should not jump to conclusions here, you can ALLEGE anything against anybody, riiiggghhhttt??? Certainly ALLEGING something does not convict anyone of anything riiiggghhhttt??

By: Jill

Jill — Tue, 25 Mar 2008 22:20:08 +0000

Where may I purchase my own “robe of many commandments”? Will see these on the runway soon, I’m certain!

Jill

By: deeply worried

deeply worried — Tue, 25 Mar 2008 21:42:13 +0000

http://www.andalusiastarnews.com/articles/2005/06/29/news/558news.txt

About the 10 Commandments Robe of Judge McKathan.

By: deeply worried

deeply worried — Tue, 25 Mar 2008 18:42:11 +0000

I blame this whole thing on Judge Roy Moore. The little fish are just following the big one.

By: Jill

Jill — Tue, 25 Mar 2008 16:33:51 +0000

kermudgeon, I do agree with separation of church and state and with the anaylsis of others in the above comments.

There is no reason that any judge may not pray to the goddess for guidance in his decisions while eating breakfast, or just before he enters the courtroom, or silently while in the courtroom. But a courtroom has the full backing and coercive power of the state behind it. I have never understood the desire to coerce another’s conscience. That seems completely immoral to me.

I am guessing the judge feels that his religion will make people good, but there is simply no evidence that is true. You must know religious people who are unkind, cruel and unjust. You must also know religious people who are kind, caring and want justice for all people. The same is true of non-religious people. There just isn’t a religious test for goodness or evil.

There are many opportunities for anyone to practice the faith of their choice. These opportunities should never take place in a coercive envirnoment which tries to compel the conscience of others.

By: deeply worried

deeply worried — Tue, 25 Mar 2008 14:18:34 +0000

Chihuahua see, Chihuahau do.

That’s me in my next life.

By: Patty C

Patty C — Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:56:10 +0000

DW, for your amusement.

http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php?id=44,6088,0,0,1,0

By: Susan

Susan — Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:23:29 +0000

Deeply Worried wrote:
To make the suggestion would be equally wildly inappropriate. Courtrooms are courtrooms, not churches. Judges are judges, not pastors.
***************

Hey, DW, how did you manage to “sneak” in here before me? Just kidding, of course, and I completely agree with your reply. I think that judge was “out of order,” whether it was a suggestion or a judicial command.

By: Susan

Susan — Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:18:59 +0000

kermudgeon wrote:
Would it matter if the judge actually said “let us all form a cirlce of prayer to our faiths before we make judgement today” instead of it being reported that he “ordered” people to form a circle?
*****************

Do you have any PROOF that this is what actually happened? And what if someone had politely but firmly declined to do so? I am part of that “separation of church & state crowd” that you mentioned, and I firmly believe that prayer does NOT belong in a courtroom.

As a secularist, I would greatly resent any judge using his or her judicial power to compel me (or anyone else for that matter) to pray when I have no interest in doing so. So my question still stands; what if I refused such a “request?” What if anyone else had? Would I have been held in contempt of court and thrown in jail for it? My guess; I probably would! There are some judges who have no regard for the separation of church and state (Judge Roy Moore springs immediately to mind). This judge appears to have the same problem with it.

By: deeply worried

deeply worried — Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:12:17 +0000

Kerm,

To make the suggestion would be equally wildly inappropriate. Courtrooms are courtrooms, not churches. Judges are judges, not pastors.

He was incredibly self-indulgent and should have known better.

Ten Commandments stitched on his robe in gold letters?

Lord, save us from your foolish and erring servants.

Kerm, this is exactly what we are condemning when we condemn the mullahs and their religious courts.

By: kermudgeon

kermudgeon — Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:55:48 +0000

Would it matter if the judge actually said “let us all form a cirlce of prayer to our faiths before we make judgement today” instead of it being reported that he “ordered” people to form a circle? I would guess the separation of church & state crowd, long known to missreport events, has missreported this incident also.

By: Susan

Susan — Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:27:44 +0000

One has to wonder what this judge would do to people who refused to join him in his prayer circle. Would he hold them in contempt of court, and throw them in jail? My guess is that people who may have been unwilling to participate in courtroom prayer are intimidated by the judge’s authority to do just that. Sounds like another form of abuse of judicial powers to me.