Antone who thinks that the RCC is not up to its neck in political endorsement and manipulation from LA to NYC doesn’t have a history book, or refuses to see what is there.

He is a white priest, who preaches like a black minister, to a pre-dominantly black community. He uses social justice practices to benefit his community. He draws attention to the media to ultimately pressure tobacco and alcohol corporations. He is loud, controversial, and oppinionated. And if he wasn’t, he’d have the 400 parishnors he had when he took over St. Sabina and not the 2400 members.

This is absolutely not about using the church for political purposes. I suspect the late Cardinal Cody assisted the late Mayor Daley get elected, if nothing else by permitting his ushers to proudly display “Vote for Daley” buttons on their lapels as they collected money from pew after pew.

I think free speech has significantly eroded since cheney/bush. On this day the military commission “trials” are making free speech and the right to meaningful self defense null and void. I’ve known/heard many people say they were often afraid to speak up in this climate.

You make a good point with private employers as well. How far may private entities (subdevelopments etc.) go in restricting constitutional rights? With so many security/war/government functions being privitized for the profit and power of the few, this further erodes all our rights in so many ways, speech being one of them.

Jill

I understand what you mean but I still think it’s always worth keeping an open heart. Sometimes each of us does not see important things until long after it was clear to many others. Please don’t take this to mean people have to forgive others. I don’t buy that for a second. But allies can and do exist in places we may not think to look at first. At least this has been my consistent experience.

Jill

I agree that priests or ministers would still have to answer to their organizations, but what’s wrong with that? If they don’t like it, they should choose another religion, or perhaps walk away from religion altogether if they reject the construct.

I can’t just say anything I want on behalf of my private employer without getting terminated. Are my speech rights being infringed? The government does protect my right to say it (I shouldn’t be charged for a crime for it, unless perhaps it is slander), but that doesn’t extend to requiring my employer to tolerate anything I say on their behalf and remain employed.

How about removing not-for-profit status from religious organizations?

No more pressure to stay out of political endorsements.

These organizations could then allow (or disallow) any speech they wanted among their members based on their own interpretation of how religious discourse should interact with the debate.

I have been fascinated to see the changes of heart/mind in some very conservative individuals such as Doug Kmiec. I heard him speak in person about 2 years ago (many times on NPR). I thought he was one of the most arrogant, unthinking (though brilliant) individuals I had ever heard. Over the years it seemed there was nothing the cheney-bush administration would do that he couldn’t justify. Then the US attorney firings happened and something happened to Mr. Kmiec. He did not think this was just fine. He really seemed to start questioning things about the administration.

Similarly, David Iglesias, who considered himself right wing, has come to the conclusion that all is not well in the administration. I’ll add to that list, Scott McClellan.

Mespo, these are the kind of people I was talking about when I said you just don’t know where you may find friends or enemies based on whether someone is liberal or conservative. People with a conscience come from the strangest places!