Love the Crystal Avairy!

Do you thing I can get a mega-Church called the Crystal Aviary–maybe on the Embarcadero? I can extend the word “Pennngueeen” with the best of ‘em. A few “love offerings” and I ‘m on my way. I could get a bouffant hair cut, have my kids help out with the service, and my wife could learn to cry on cue. Maybe I could heal some folks by spreading my wings around them? We could talk in “beaks” instead of “tongues.” I think it really has possibilities? Now if I could just learn to fly and find some talking snakes.

I really like the Church of Ornithology. You shouldn’t be giving out the secrets of the Pink Flamingo without charging though. You need to create sacred “teachings” which are learned in ever more expensive “knowledge knots”. Either that or start the 800 club and give people the knowledge in exchange for their cancer money. If you’re not collecting a lot of money it’s not a church. At least you’re starting out on the right foot with being willing to kill for your god. A church is all about killin and money. And don’t just let rafflaw waltz in without charging him for being there. He has to earn his place. I think I caught him worshipping a golden arrdvark yesterday-sinner!

To everyone,

Have you seen the film, An American Movie? It’s a chronical of the making of a film called, Coven. It is hysterical and very kind hearted.

“mespo choses to use his free will to cast disdain on his creator. ”

********************

No,no martha not casting disdain on the creator but on the scared, furry, little creatures hiding in the shadows reading their magic book, awaiting Armageddon, and decrying the rest of the World who cannot share their self-delusion. Here’s a little test, answer my questions above to dundar and I will accept your faith. No one has ever answered them in the history of the earth, so I am sure you can easily handle it with your divine will and all. Or are all you good for is fire and brimstone with no light.

I just keep humming “if you’re phone don’t ring, it’s me.” I never heard it before, but I do love it so.

And rafflaw, like Henry IV you need only crawl to my mountain top villa on your hands and knees in the snow begging absolution and you shall be…not Co-Pope, but Co-Penguin.

God gave us his gift of free will and that free will allows us to worship him…..or not.

mespo choses to use his free will to cast disdain on his creator. that is his free will at work.

foolish little people here. such foolish little people.

On the first question I will have to remain agnostic as I’m not a believer. Co-Popery? Now that’s a quandry! I don’t think two Popes may co-exist within one universe, but no one said they couldn’t in a multiverse-type scenario. In the Renaissance, the would be Pope wouldn’t bother being a Co-Pope. They’d just poison the current Pope and be done with it. So that’s always an option.

Best,

Jill

And just who the hell is this god to make such a declaration?

“Nevertheless, God allowed it to exist the way He allows other things to exist…”

What utter nonsense. The non-existence of your phantom god is what permits these things, either that or divine irresponsibility. Take your pick as those are the only two choices. This line of illogic
reminds me of a country music song title I once heard of, “If you’re phone don’t ring, it’s me”

O.K. here’s the deal. Get ye to San Francisco. There ye will find what ye seek; both the infidel and the illegal liveth there. Bring forth thy shootin iron from beneath thy loin skin. Lo, neither the infidel nor the illegal is human. Ye shall have the property of the Lord for thy labor. Now get crackin’!

Jill

P.S. in the meantime the funny hat and stick are great at parties!

Sorry, it’s just that I got this great pointy hat and crooked stick cane and all. I’ll just warm up the old shootin’ iron and head back to land of the infidels to “saint meself up” some more heretics. I have to avoid Texas, ’cause the hunting for heretics is bad. What if I just banish the snakes from Texas. I do believe if I just limit myself to the two legged variety I could drop the population by half!

You most cetainly cannot become a saint. Do you think you are the Pope? Only the Pope’s on the fast track. After you perform three shotins, preferably in Texas, then you may be considered a saint. Don’t be so dense about religion!

Jill

I thought it was a meeting of the RNC or maybe the Stone Cutters.

Uh-Oh, found a heretic on my pilgrimage to the Kingdom of the Worms. Josey Wales said “buzzards gotta eat, same as worms,” so I shot him in furtherance of the faith. Can I be a saint now?

What a pile of horse malarkey. You must even now be uncoiling from the pretzel you’ve contorted yourself into. You know as well as I that the Bible never repudiates or even discourages slavery. In fact, is expressly promotes it–even sexual slavery. So now we are to believe that God promotes bad to foster good. Do I sound that naive? Wonder why God only permitted slavery in this Country until 1863? Were things so “good” in the middle of the Civil War that he didn’t need it any more? Maybe that was just coincidence that Lincoln came up with the idea out of compassion, morality, and the good sense to win the war at the same exact time as the deity did. Oh I am sure God inspired him because when you start with the conclusion and work backwards, you can imagine all kinds of rationalizations to prove your point. I guess General Lee was inspired by Satan to oppose Lincoln.

I also enjoyed your quotations from the Bible to prove the existence of your anthropomorphic god. I guess the logic goes this way: I know God exists because the Bible says so, and I know the Bible is true because it says that too. Ok got it. The only problem is that your logic works for the Qur’an, Bhagavad Gita, Tao-te-ching, Veda, and their associated deities and wise men.

And one final point, what kind of all-powerful, compassionate deity “permits” all manner of human suffering to be visited upon innocent children and adults by both human and divine means, and calls that morality. One must conclude that she is either powerless to prevent it, or wills it to occur. I am not sure you would prefer either choice. Maybe there is an option 3? Maybe she just made us and moved on to bigger and better things. That was good enough a concept for our founders, but apparently not sophists like you.

In the words of Steven Tyler, “Dream On.”

Runes cast doubt on Democrats!

Demonic Drivel Bedevils Dems!

It was meant to be (but no one was supposed to find out)!

A slave is property
Exodus 21:20-21

(Exodus 21:20-21) – “And if a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished. 21If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property.”

God permitted slavery to exist in both Old and New Testament times. But this does not mean that slavery was a God-ordained system.

Slavery was an invention of fallen man, not of God.

Nevertheless, God allowed it to exist the way He allows other things to exist that He does not approve of: murder, lying, rape, theft, etc. We all know that God gave man free will and that will takes us where he does not want us to go, but knows we will.

God also works within the system of fallen man and makes allowances for the freedom and failures of mankind within that system. We see this, for example, in Jesus saying that God allowed divorce because of the hardness of peoples’ hearts (Matt. 19:8).

The fact is, people are sinners and do things contrary to the will of God. But, even though people have murdered, lied, raped, and stolen, God has still used people who’ve committed these sins to accomplish His divine will. Moses murdered an Egyptian but was used by God to deliver Israel. David committed adultery but was promised to have the Messiah descend from his seed.

This is proof that though God desires that people not do what they do, He permits them their freedom, yet uses the system and the people according to His divine will.

Well done my son! Now go forth and seekth worms!!! Woe onto ye who doth not eat of the worms of the earth!

Squawk, Squawk!

P.S. Almost all violence is justified as being “good for” the person receiving it, especially religiously inspired violence. I suspect the people who were in the senario above thought they were being “corrected” as a way to purify their souls. I took a look at the Indigo website and it seems clear they see violence as a way to purity. It’s how people get sucked in–pain is the pathway to strength. That lie is repeted many times in this society. It is still a lie.

Jill

Commence said worship immediately!

Seth,

Stop justifying violence. I do not think you mean badly by what you are saying, but there is NO EXCUSE for a Zen master to beat his pupils. There are many ways to bring people back into present conscienceness, none of which involve violence. This is an exercise in power by a teacher over a student. It is wrong and abusive. If we don’t stop excusing hierarchical and violent actions we will not get anywhere.

Jill

“Certainly I must agree that there are many kind people who are religious.”
************************

I agree, just as there are many kind people who are bird watchers too. Should I pay homage to my local ornithologist?

P.S. Sorry in advance for the “smart alec” retort, I just couldn’t resist.

“Time & again critics of the Bible post a verse here or there that in itself seems strange or downright cruel, but upon reading what the Scholars that have interpreted the Hebrew language of the time and IN THE CONTEXT of the whole chapter(s) the verse relates, you discover the critics are 180 degrees off mark.”
*************************

How about giving me the redeeming historical context or the benevolent Hebrew language interpretation of this passage that clearly supports human slavery:

“And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money [property].” Exodus 21:20-21 (KJV)

Surely the words of the beneficent Creator of the Universe. I’ve got my rudder in the water waiting to make that 180!

I appreciate your response to what I wrote. I disagree with you on your first point, although I understand what you mean. Certainly I must agree that there are many kind people who are religious.

Biblical scholars do not all agree upon the meaning of the bible. Some scholars believe the bible is the recieved word of god as is, in the english bible we now read, unchanged from ancient times. Other scholars, such as Bart Ehrman who wrote both; Misquoting Jesus and God’s Problem, do read the original languages of the bible, have made direct translations and may come to conclusions that would startle many Christians.

We will have to disagree on this point.

Jill

PS: if you are unwilling to quote Biblical Scholar’s interpretation of God’s word for the verses you post as being somehow alarming, then don’t post them at all.

Time & again critics of the Bible post a verse here or there that in itself seems strange or downright cruel, but upon reading what the Scholars that have interpreted the Hebrew language of the time and IN THE CONTEXT of the whole chapter(s) the verse relates, you discover the critics are 180 degrees off mark.

Ephesians 6:11-13 (New International Version)

11Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.

New International Version (NIV)

Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
[NIV at IBS] [International Bible Society] [NIV at Zondervan] [Zondervan]

I am sick of the insanity and cruelty being perpetrated in the name of religion. The connection between physical pain and belief is a deep one. Above is the new age version of Opus Dei and The Family.
The bible itself recommends beating one’s children and sending one’s daughter out to be raped for the protection of strangers. Zen masters do in fact cane their students. Pick your religion, you will see violence advocated in the sacred texts and by its practitioners. I am so sorry for the victims of these cult members. If any religious leader tells you to commit acts of violence or to submit to them, for any reason, RUN.

Maybe it is a Karl Rove plant.