Almost every neocon that pushed for the Iraq “war” was a Jew. From Wolfowitz and Feith and Leiberman to Kristol, Frum and Murdoch (let’s not forget Perle, Kissinger, Luttwak, Irving Lewis “Scooter” Libby, Elliot Abrams, Haass, Zoelick, Bolten, Wurmser, Adelman, Eliot Cohen…).

The aim is for the US to destroy Israel’s enemies and then to keep a “presence” in the Middle East to control as much oil as possible. The neocons who swore that Iraq was an imminent threat to Israel and the US, now say the same nonsense about Iran. And if Iran is attacked, then it will be Syria, then Lebanon, then Jordan, and once that US stooge Mubarak goes, Egypt and if it wasn’t for the fact that Pakistan has a much larger army, more skilled pilots AND enough nuclear weapons to turn Israel into a sheet of glass in 30 minutes, Pakistan would be on the list too.

Too many people are afraid of being labeled an “anti-Semite” if they speak the truth.

I stand corrected. The U.S. and Israel do work closely together and that is more accurate than saying the U.S. does Israel’s bidding.

Best,

Jill

Rob:

-”At Israels bidding.” Support this. This made it hard for me to take the rest of your comments seriously. Go educate yourself: http://www.forward.com/articles/sharon-warned-bush/

I don’t feel like addressing the rest of the points you make. They’re outrageous. And you lawyers should be able to think more subtly and stop drinkig from the kool-aid.

You made an impressive summary of multiple dire situations. I think other countries should be very afraid of the govt. we have here, I know I am!

Jill

You invaded (and ultimately created a civil war) based on lies for the benefits of your power elite, who aren’t there dying with you. You took control of their main asset without due process and are exploiting it for your own profit and the Iraqis get no say.
Your forces slaughter innocent civilians because they cant find the people who have the temerity to fight back against your invasion and when this slaughter is documented and brought to light the guilty go unpunished
Your “security” contractors slaughter innocent civilians at a intersection in BROAD DAYLIGHT for no good reason and go unpunished (in fact they get airlifted out of the country).

And you have the gall to question why people regard your country with suspicion and distrust and a little fear. My only hope for you is that the sane elements of your society as evidenced by a number people on this site manage to DEMOCRATICALLY take back control from the buzzards cowards and profiteers who are in power right now although with all of your candidates under the control of corporations and saying one thing and flip flopping to exactly the same position to those currently in power, my hopes for you are fading fast!

“Thumbing our nose” at Iraq’s government is perfectly fine if it serves our interests and doesn’t undermine the very government and democratic regime we seek to put into place. I don’t think it does at this point.

Some of you should really be ashamed of yourselves. Is America the champion of freedom and progressive ideals? Or are we just another France, or Germany? A country who sits by, does nothing and pokes geopolitical jabs at every country/administration that tries to make a difference?

I guess we should all just sit around while dictators, and radical Islamic fronts develop throughout the world… You support our troops but not their mission. Oh yeah we’re just in Iraq for “oil”.. We couldn’t possibly be there to help them secure the country, and at the same time prevent terrorist camps from developing in a part of the world known for extremism, and which is also obviously having trouble with it’s own security. Oh no that would make too much sense. That doesn’t contain a conspiracy at the highest level of government so it couldn’t possibly be true…

Wake up, not everything the biased opinions of media heads, and people who are invested in defeat, say, is correct. Use your brain for once look around and see what’s going on for yourself.

That was PERFECT!

Seriously i’ve not seen anyone sum up the irrationality of the pro-war crowd in such a creative way and funny way ever! That was a work of pure genius!

now – if you were serious.. i’m sorry… but i can’t conceive that anyone could be so uninformed and have found their way onto the internet to post

JT
http://www.FireMe.To/udi

But Iraq ain’t a hole anymore. There’s been so much progress over there that even Senator Obama grudgingly came around. And remember, we have our interests too. If the Iraqis’ demands are a serious impediment to further progress, let them jump in the lake.

Another dig at Bush to make you guys happy: If you’re belligerent and have no qualms with using force to achieve your foreign policy goals, at least do it properly. Here there was inept military planning. This just emasculates the guy.

I guess any one of us could give you a point by point analysis as to why destroying the military and bankrupting the Country is not worth doing over this war of choice and hubris, but maybe the late, great Molly Ivins can better address your arguments in her own pithy and direct way:

“The First Rule of Holes…

… If You Are in One, Stop Digging.”

“Excuse me while I chuckle….’peace’ has never been an end result of war. Not once.”
***************

I have no idea how you define “peace” but most define it as the general absence of war. If you accept that definition, “J” is undeniably correct when he writes that the defeat of Hitler brought about the peace in Western Europe that continues today. Further, it is historical fact that Octavian’s victory in the Roman Civil War in 31 BCE ushered in Pax Romana which was a period of peace within the Empire that lasted until about 180 CE. In 1865, Lee’s surrender at Appomattox certainly ended most hostilities in our Civil War, and there was reconciliation between the regions. Fat Man and Little Boy quelled the state of war with Japan and that has led to an alliance with our former enemy. That’s just four counterexamples without much research to disprove your assertion. It is just inaccurate to say that peace has “never been the end result of war,” and in fact, while war may not a necessary predecessor to peace, history shows its has preceded it time and time again. Of course, if you define peace as a state of absolute tranquility where everyone loves everyone and the sun shines and the birds sing, I think you seek “what never was and never will be.” (to paraphrase Jefferson)

Oh and second argument: A decision to withdraw by a certain date affects more than the Iraqi’s territorial integrity. It puts our resolve in question. We’d be removing OUR own troops and inevitably signaling to the hostile forces that be that we had enough. This concerns more than just the Iraqis.

Please don’t respond to my post unless you address my arguments directly. Ty.

Again, basic Principals. A “Union” is the sum of all parts. What “war” does, is fight over which parts are going to be negated.

For example, if I mix up all the ingredients for a chocolate cake and put it into the oven to bake, I’m not going to pull out a cherry pie. No matter how much I want to. If I wanted a cherry pie, then I needed to use the proper ingredients.

The prank was boring, although the 2% reference was actually a compliment – it seems that joke went awry because it wasn’t very interesting or clever.

Instead of attacking people who merely excercise their constitutional rights for peaceful protest of their own govt (you do believe in the Constitution, right?) you might want to pin some of the blame for our loss in Viet Nam, to the Presidents who started it, continued it and refused to give up until they knew it was hopeless.

They can throw in a bagful of items:

Illegal occupation by US and Halliberton et al.
Stealing Iraqi oil.
Contaminating Iraqi soil (Depleted Uranium.
Indiscriminate killing and bombing of civilians.
Torture of prisoners.

and on and on….

All in all … that was a lot of typing by a man (posing as a woman) in order to avoid answering two very simply worded questions.

Finally, in all the silly posting by bored students – this one is most revealing.

Untempered material expansion is the “pathogenic” aspiration of those who do not seek, nor contemplate, a truly relevant purpose based on collective human potential. It is this deficit in consciousness, that keeps most of humanity hungry, and in a state of violent strife!

So how many times have you been out on the street demonstrating against America and for the terrorists; just as the Vietnam war protestors did against America and for the Communists.

I bet you were one of those nut jobs with the fake blood on a Bush picture, right? I bet that picture of you was spread on some terrorists wall as inspiration just as the pictures of the Vietnam war protestors were spread all over North Vietnam to give the enemy encouragement that they were beating America’s will at home.

I PITY you two percenters. You live your lives hating the country that gives you the freedom to hate it openly and you blow it off as “protecting our US Constitution”.

SHAME ON YOU ALL.

Please explain – how does one win an occupation?

And my follow-up – In what percentile do you reside?

Respectfully,
Vincent

A few other things that are for certain:

4,116 PLUS Dead
1,236,604 PLUS Dead
2,477,324 TOTAL Dead

30,333 PLUS Maimed

Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Rice/Libby/Wolfowitz/Perle/Yoo/Feith and the rest of these excuses who are responsible for the above don’t lose any sleep at night over what they have done. What is more evil than that?
—–

A country and its culture have been destroyed forever.
—–

None of the military eligible offsprings from the chickenhawk families are not only NOT in Iraq fighting for our freedom, BUT have never seen fit to serve their country. These brave shining example of good citizens include:
Bush (at least 15 of them)
Cheney (3 including the son-in-law)
Rove
Romney (5 of them)
Lieberman
Kristol (3)
Giuliani (2)
Schwarzenegge
Wolfowitz (3)
And let us not forget some others who have had a hand in doing damage to this country: Monica Goodling and the other graduates (ha, ha) of the Pat Robinson School of Law, D. Kyle Sampson, J. Timothy Griffin, Josh Bolten, the list goes on and on.

And don’t forget the lapdogs in the so-called main-stream media and their offsprings who have not seen fit to serve their country.
—–

John McSame was a was a signatore of the Project for a New American Century which was the blue print for the invasion and destruction of Iraq?

THESE THINGS ARE CERTAIN.

GOD BLESS GW BUSH ——–HE & OUR SOLDIERS WON IN IRAQ DESPITE YOU TWO PERCENTERS TRYING TO LOSE IT FOR POLITICAL GAIN!

SHOVE IT LIBERALS! YOU TRIED TO LOSE A WAR FOR POLITICAL GAIN AND YOU COST US AMERICAN LIVES!

WHAT CROCK JONATHAN TURLEY!! IRAQ’S MALIKI IS JUST SETTING THE STAGE POLILTICALLY FOR THE SUCCESS OF IRAQ! HE HAS TO APPEAR TO BE FOR AMERICANS PULLING OUT TO KEEP THE IRAQ POLITICIANS UNITED.

GOD BLESS GW BUSH ——–HE & OUR SOLDIERS WON IN IRAQ DESPITE YOU TWO PERCENTERS TRYING TO LOSE IT FOR POLITICAL GAIN!

SHOVE IT LIBERALS! YOU TRIED TO LOSE A WAR FOR POLITICAL GAIN AND YOU COST US AMERICAN LIVES!

WHAT CROCK JONATHAN TURLEY!! IRAQ’S MALIKI IS JUST SETTING THE STAGE POLILTICALLY FOR THE SUCCESS OF IRAQ! HE HAS TO APPEAR TO BE FOR AMERICANS PULLING OUT TO KEEP THE IRAQ POLITICIANS UNITED.

GOD BLESS GW BUSH ——–HE & OUR SOLDIERS WON IN IRAQ DESPITE YOU TWO PERCENTERS TRYING TO LOSE IT FOR POLITICAL GAIN!

SHOVE IT LIBERALS! YOU TRIED TO LOSE A WAR FOR POLITICAL GAIN AND YOU COST US AMERICAN LIVES!

WHAT CROCK JONATHAN TURLEY!! IRAQ’S MALIKI IS JUST SETTING THE STAGE POLILTICALLY FOR THE SUCCESS OF IRAQ! HE HAS TO APPEAR TO BE FOR AMERICANS PULLING OUT TO KEEP THE IRAQ POLITICIANS UNITED.

GOD BLESS GW BUSH ——–HE & OUR SOLDIERS WON IN IRAQ DESPITE YOU TWO PERCENTERS TRYING TO LOSE IT FOR POLITICAL GAIN!

SHOVE IT LIBERALS! YOU TRIED TO LOSE A WAR FOR POLITICAL GAIN AND YOU COST US AMERICAN LIVES!
WHAT CROCK JONATHAN TURLEY!! IRAQ’S MALIKI IS JUST SETTING THE STAGE POLILTICALLY FOR THE SUCCESS OF IRAQ! HE HAS TO APPEAR TO BE FOR AMERICANS PULLING OUT TO KEEP THE IRAQ POLITICIANS UNITED.

GOD BLESS GW BUSH ——–HE & OUR SOLDIERS WON IN IRAQ DESPITE YOU TWO PERCENTERS TRYING TO LOSE IT FOR POLITICAL GAIN!

SHOVE IT LIBERALS! YOU TRIED TO LOSE A WAR FOR POLITICAL GAIN AND YOU COST US AMERICAN LIVES!

WHAT CROCK JONATHAN TURLEY!! IRAQ’S MALIKI IS JUST SETTING THE STAGE POLILTICALLY FOR THE SUCCESS OF IRAQ! HE HAS TO APPEAR TO BE FOR AMERICANS PULLING OUT TO KEEP THE IRAQ POLITICIANS UNITED.

GOD BLESS GW BUSH ——–HE & OUR SOLDIERS WON IN IRAQ DESPITE YOU TWO PERCENTERS TRYING TO LOSE IT FOR POLITICAL GAIN!

SHOVE IT LIBERALS! YOU TRIED TO LOSE A WAR FOR POLITICAL GAIN AND YOU COST US AMERICAN LIVES!

Sue Ann: Yes!!

Ten Bears: These things you say we will have, we already have.
Josey Wales: That’s true. I ain’t promising you nothing extra. I’m just giving you life and you’re giving me life. And I’m saying that men can live together without butchering one another.
Ten Bears: It’s sad that governments are chiefed by the double tongues. There is iron in your words of death for all Comanche to see, and so there is iron in your words of life. No signed paper can hold the iron. It must come from men. The words of Ten Bears carries the same iron of life and death. It is good that warriors such as we meet in the struggle of life… or death. It shall be life.
Senator: The war’s over. Our side won the war. Now we must busy ourselves winning the peace. And Fletcher, there’s an old saying: To the victors belong the spoils.
Fletcher: There’s another old saying, Senator: Don’t piss down my back and tell me it’s raining.

Congress, not unlike Iraq, is still occupied. There isn’t much opportunity to get anything done until there is actually a relevant majority in both houses. Right now, tactically speaking, it would seem that Congress needs to practice restraint from knee jerk maneuvers. The corporate media are scouring the planet for tid-bits. Just look how they framed Obama’s comments according to McCain’s instructions… so unless you’re able to follow much of what Congress does, without the heavily distorted commentary (even from the ‘good guys’ much of the information in the news is very misleading.

It is my opinion that the greater good isn’t in losing more freedom or bludgeoning the war-mongers. Using our troops as a political weapon is equally distasteful, even more so since we’ve been abusing them beyond comprehension because of our dangerous lack of mature leadership as a Nation. Adding the war-funding as a political foot-ball might look attractive, but it could be deadly … in many ways.

It would be a good time to develop very good questions. The answers tend to be more useful, when the questions are contextually sound.

It is mind numbing to me that Congress will most likely grant not just telecom immunity, but give this president (or any president), more secret surveillance powers that ever before. Why? Because cheney has shown himself to be trustworthy? Only a few Senators with clearance even know what powers they will be granting tomrrow. They are making a whole new law without knowing even 10% of what they are approving.

We clearly have 2 remaining branches of govt., and by tomorrow, one when it comes to the American public’s 4th ammendment rights. In the meantime, this Congress sees yet another example of how mendacious/malcious this administration really is. They just don’t seem to care. It doesn’t matter how many or how serious the lies have been, Congress does nothing. I don’t care who thinks I’m overreacting–this is how democracy dies and dictators take hold.