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	<title>Comments on: Some Animals are More Equal Than Others:  Ninth Circuit Rules on Whether Dogs are Livestock</title>
	<atom:link href="http://jonathanturley.org/2008/08/11/some-animals-are-more-equal-than-others-ninth-circuit-rules-on-whether-dogs-are-livestock/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2008/08/11/some-animals-are-more-equal-than-others-ninth-circuit-rules-on-whether-dogs-are-livestock/</link>
	<description>Res ipsa loquitur (&#34;The thing itself speaks&#34;)</description>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2008/08/11/some-animals-are-more-equal-than-others-ninth-circuit-rules-on-whether-dogs-are-livestock/#comment-21484</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 06:12:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.wordpress.com/?p=3243#comment-21484</guid>
		<description>Kansas had a similar case: Weber v. Board of Franklin County Commissioners,  20 Kan. App. 2d 152, 884 P.2d 1169 (1994).

That said, Kansas statutes conveniently exempt greyhounds from the definition of &quot;dog&quot;.  K.S.A. 47-1701(j)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kansas had a similar case: Weber v. Board of Franklin County Commissioners,  20 Kan. App. 2d 152, 884 P.2d 1169 (1994).</p>
<p>That said, Kansas statutes conveniently exempt greyhounds from the definition of &#8220;dog&#8221;.  K.S.A. 47-1701(j)</p>
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		<title>By: Jill</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2008/08/11/some-animals-are-more-equal-than-others-ninth-circuit-rules-on-whether-dogs-are-livestock/#comment-20594</link>
		<dc:creator>Jill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 17:21:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.wordpress.com/?p=3243#comment-20594</guid>
		<description>On the BBC this A.M. they had bush on, saying something like, &quot;to invade a sovereign country in the 21 century is unacceptable&quot;.  Unless this century began in 2004 I would say some animals are more equal than others!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the BBC this A.M. they had bush on, saying something like, &#8220;to invade a sovereign country in the 21 century is unacceptable&#8221;.  Unless this century began in 2004 I would say some animals are more equal than others!</p>
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		<title>By: Gyges</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2008/08/11/some-animals-are-more-equal-than-others-ninth-circuit-rules-on-whether-dogs-are-livestock/#comment-20589</link>
		<dc:creator>Gyges</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 14:39:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.wordpress.com/?p=3243#comment-20589</guid>
		<description>Chris,

  Dog breeding is a big industry, I have a relative who flies to Europe a couple of times a year to buy purebreds of a certain rare breed to breed or sell. I do see your point, I guess we have to draw the line somewhere, and like most things theres going to be a &quot;Yeah but...&quot; example.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris,</p>
<p>  Dog breeding is a big industry, I have a relative who flies to Europe a couple of times a year to buy purebreds of a certain rare breed to breed or sell. I do see your point, I guess we have to draw the line somewhere, and like most things theres going to be a &#8220;Yeah but&#8230;&#8221; example.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2008/08/11/some-animals-are-more-equal-than-others-ninth-circuit-rules-on-whether-dogs-are-livestock/#comment-20587</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 12:46:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.wordpress.com/?p=3243#comment-20587</guid>
		<description>Maybe I&#039;ve been working with them too long, but it actually makes sense to me.  One-off rules are a nightmare for everyone, so there&#039;s only three buckets at the federal level.  Basically pets, livestock, and zoo animals.  I know they track livestock to contain the spread of infectious diseases.  They would have authority to track commercial traffic of domestic animals (that is, pet breeders), but I don&#039;t know if they do at the federal level.  Again, if so it&#039;s to contain infectious diseases.

They don&#039;t have authority, under the Commerce Clause, to track non-commercial traffic.  (I think... but maybe there&#039;s a presumption that -all- interstate movement of farm animals is commercial in nature.  You don&#039;t take your cow with you on vacation.)

State and local laws vary, of course, and usually have additional requirements.  E.g., local laws requiring rabies vaccinations of domestic animals.

It might feel like a pain, but imagine buying a new animal to improve your genetic diversity and having a quarter of your animals die because of a disease.  You would not be happy, but it could be impossible to know how much you could trust the sender&#039;s assurance that the animal was disease-free.  Remember that large livestock operations have their own staff vets and often move hundreds or thousands of animals at a time... and the pain of one-off regulations.  Mandatory inspections can fix that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe I&#8217;ve been working with them too long, but it actually makes sense to me.  One-off rules are a nightmare for everyone, so there&#8217;s only three buckets at the federal level.  Basically pets, livestock, and zoo animals.  I know they track livestock to contain the spread of infectious diseases.  They would have authority to track commercial traffic of domestic animals (that is, pet breeders), but I don&#8217;t know if they do at the federal level.  Again, if so it&#8217;s to contain infectious diseases.</p>
<p>They don&#8217;t have authority, under the Commerce Clause, to track non-commercial traffic.  (I think&#8230; but maybe there&#8217;s a presumption that -all- interstate movement of farm animals is commercial in nature.  You don&#8217;t take your cow with you on vacation.)</p>
<p>State and local laws vary, of course, and usually have additional requirements.  E.g., local laws requiring rabies vaccinations of domestic animals.</p>
<p>It might feel like a pain, but imagine buying a new animal to improve your genetic diversity and having a quarter of your animals die because of a disease.  You would not be happy, but it could be impossible to know how much you could trust the sender&#8217;s assurance that the animal was disease-free.  Remember that large livestock operations have their own staff vets and often move hundreds or thousands of animals at a time&#8230; and the pain of one-off regulations.  Mandatory inspections can fix that.</p>
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		<title>By: Betsy</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2008/08/11/some-animals-are-more-equal-than-others-ninth-circuit-rules-on-whether-dogs-are-livestock/#comment-20565</link>
		<dc:creator>Betsy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 02:26:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.wordpress.com/?p=3243#comment-20565</guid>
		<description>I used to make a potload of money raising show and pet quality guinea pigs.  They are definitly commercially viable.  However, would you believe the government makes you have an exotic animal license and be inspected as if they were wild or something.  They have been domesticated in the Americas since prehistoric times--Government regulations have little relation to reality.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I used to make a potload of money raising show and pet quality guinea pigs.  They are definitly commercially viable.  However, would you believe the government makes you have an exotic animal license and be inspected as if they were wild or something.  They have been domesticated in the Americas since prehistoric times&#8211;Government regulations have little relation to reality&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: PERCY</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2008/08/11/some-animals-are-more-equal-than-others-ninth-circuit-rules-on-whether-dogs-are-livestock/#comment-20559</link>
		<dc:creator>PERCY</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 01:44:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.wordpress.com/?p=3243#comment-20559</guid>
		<description>Obama Calls for UN to Pass Resolution Condemning Russia, Forgets Russia Has UNSC Veto

Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 5:55:12 pm PDT

An astoundingly bone-headed statement from Barack Obama today, as he calls for the United Nations Security Council to pass a resolution condemning Russia’s invasion of Georgia.

Memo to the Obama campaign: Russia has veto power in the United Nations Security Council.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obama Calls for UN to Pass Resolution Condemning Russia, Forgets Russia Has UNSC Veto</p>
<p>Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 5:55:12 pm PDT</p>
<p>An astoundingly bone-headed statement from Barack Obama today, as he calls for the United Nations Security Council to pass a resolution condemning Russia’s invasion of Georgia.</p>
<p>Memo to the Obama campaign: Russia has veto power in the United Nations Security Council.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2008/08/11/some-animals-are-more-equal-than-others-ninth-circuit-rules-on-whether-dogs-are-livestock/#comment-20553</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 00:48:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.wordpress.com/?p=3243#comment-20553</guid>
		<description>But those are working dogs -- you aren&#039;t raising them to eat, milk or shear, or to sell to other people for the same purpose.

You can say the same thing about horses, to further complicate the issue.  A lot of people keep their own horses, but it requires a significant investment in shelter and roaming area.  A lot of dogs live in urban apartments.

BTW I work with the USDA and know there&#039;s a huge legal difference with them.  Personal pets can be moved across state lines without vet exams or documentation.  Livestock and exotics (zoo animals), you gotta file some paperwork.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But those are working dogs &#8212; you aren&#8217;t raising them to eat, milk or shear, or to sell to other people for the same purpose.</p>
<p>You can say the same thing about horses, to further complicate the issue.  A lot of people keep their own horses, but it requires a significant investment in shelter and roaming area.  A lot of dogs live in urban apartments.</p>
<p>BTW I work with the USDA and know there&#8217;s a huge legal difference with them.  Personal pets can be moved across state lines without vet exams or documentation.  Livestock and exotics (zoo animals), you gotta file some paperwork.</p>
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		<title>By: martha h</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2008/08/11/some-animals-are-more-equal-than-others-ninth-circuit-rules-on-whether-dogs-are-livestock/#comment-20541</link>
		<dc:creator>martha h</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 23:32:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.wordpress.com/?p=3243#comment-20541</guid>
		<description>Ask Keith Olbermann.  I am sure he will pontificate and announce that the whole world knew what the answer was until Bush was elected.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ask Keith Olbermann.  I am sure he will pontificate and announce that the whole world knew what the answer was until Bush was elected.</p>
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		<title>By: Gyges</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2008/08/11/some-animals-are-more-equal-than-others-ninth-circuit-rules-on-whether-dogs-are-livestock/#comment-20538</link>
		<dc:creator>Gyges</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 22:51:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.wordpress.com/?p=3243#comment-20538</guid>
		<description>Chris,

 I have to disagree with you a little on dogs. Some dogs are pets, but there are still a lot of working dogs out there. I know a few ranchers and shepherds whose dogs help them with the herd or flock. Plus there&#039;s  all the  dogs that get used for hunting, service animals, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris,</p>
<p> I have to disagree with you a little on dogs. Some dogs are pets, but there are still a lot of working dogs out there. I know a few ranchers and shepherds whose dogs help them with the herd or flock. Plus there&#8217;s  all the  dogs that get used for hunting, service animals, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Jill</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2008/08/11/some-animals-are-more-equal-than-others-ninth-circuit-rules-on-whether-dogs-are-livestock/#comment-20537</link>
		<dc:creator>Jill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 22:42:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.wordpress.com/?p=3243#comment-20537</guid>
		<description>As to guinea pigs--au contraire!  They are raised as livestock in some countries (and I&#039;m putting this delicately in case any of them are reading this page)!

Chris,

That was a dead on description of livestock and men!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As to guinea pigs&#8211;au contraire!  They are raised as livestock in some countries (and I&#8217;m putting this delicately in case any of them are reading this page)!</p>
<p>Chris,</p>
<p>That was a dead on description of livestock and men!</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2008/08/11/some-animals-are-more-equal-than-others-ninth-circuit-rules-on-whether-dogs-are-livestock/#comment-20535</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 21:54:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.wordpress.com/?p=3243#comment-20535</guid>
		<description>Some people in Colorado have successfully claimed the annual visit of bees (via visiting beekeepers) constitutes agricultural use of their ranchette.  (Read: greatly reduced property taxes.)  Does that mean beehives are &#039;livestock&#039;?  In any case I think this is more defensible than the usual &quot;rent a cow for a day&quot; plan for ex-urbanites with their 35 acre spreads.(*)

It depends on state law, etc., but there&#039;s usually significant legal status with/without livestock status.  E.g., the right to keep the animal in residential areas (anti-livestock), the right to sue for financial loss when the animal is killed or injured (pro-livestock), etc.

Hmm... I see their point, but there are two good counterarguments.  First, livestock status is usually on the basis of species.  You don&#039;t want to deal with somebody claiming he has a right to keep is pet cow in his 1 bdrm urban apartment.  Dogs are domestic animals, not barnyard animals.

Second, &#039;livestock&#039; usually lives off the land, at least theoretically.  Cattle, horses, sheep, etc., can just graze.  Dogs?  Not so much.

(*) 35 acres is the magic number that exempts a parcel from zoning oversight in unincorporated areas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some people in Colorado have successfully claimed the annual visit of bees (via visiting beekeepers) constitutes agricultural use of their ranchette.  (Read: greatly reduced property taxes.)  Does that mean beehives are &#8216;livestock&#8217;?  In any case I think this is more defensible than the usual &#8220;rent a cow for a day&#8221; plan for ex-urbanites with their 35 acre spreads.(*)</p>
<p>It depends on state law, etc., but there&#8217;s usually significant legal status with/without livestock status.  E.g., the right to keep the animal in residential areas (anti-livestock), the right to sue for financial loss when the animal is killed or injured (pro-livestock), etc.</p>
<p>Hmm&#8230; I see their point, but there are two good counterarguments.  First, livestock status is usually on the basis of species.  You don&#8217;t want to deal with somebody claiming he has a right to keep is pet cow in his 1 bdrm urban apartment.  Dogs are domestic animals, not barnyard animals.</p>
<p>Second, &#8216;livestock&#8217; usually lives off the land, at least theoretically.  Cattle, horses, sheep, etc., can just graze.  Dogs?  Not so much.</p>
<p>(*) 35 acres is the magic number that exempts a parcel from zoning oversight in unincorporated areas.</p>
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