Comments on: The Golden Years: China Challenged Over Age of Female Gymnasts http://jonathanturley.org/2008/08/14/the-golden-years-china-challenged-over-age-of-female-gymnasts/ Res ipsa loquitur ("The thing itself speaks") Sat, 21 Nov 2009 20:54:56 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: U.S. Hacker Hits Gold: Documents Appear to Confirm Falsified Ages of Chinese Gymnast « JONATHAN TURLEY http://jonathanturley.org/2008/08/14/the-golden-years-china-challenged-over-age-of-female-gymnasts/#comment-21513 U.S. Hacker Hits Gold: Documents Appear to Confirm Falsified Ages of Chinese Gymnast « JONATHAN TURLEY Thu, 21 Aug 2008 16:10:50 +0000 http://jonathanturley.wordpress.com/?p=3304#comment-21513 [...] China has relied on the passport that the government issued, even though at least three of the team had prior documents showing that they did not meet the age 16 requirement of the IOC, here. [...] [...] China has relied on the passport that the government issued, even though at least three of the team had prior documents showing that they did not meet the age 16 requirement of the IOC, here. [...]

]]> By: Michael Spindell http://jonathanturley.org/2008/08/14/the-golden-years-china-challenged-over-age-of-female-gymnasts/#comment-20896 Michael Spindell Fri, 15 Aug 2008 17:46:56 +0000 http://jonathanturley.wordpress.com/?p=3304#comment-20896 Jill & Mespo, Thank you. you know I feel the same about your comments. Incidentally, last night my wife and I stayed up to 1:30 am watching the Women's Gymnastic Finals, where the Gold and Silver medal were won by Katia & Shawn from the US. While normally past our bedtime, we felt compelled to watch because there was some suspicious judging that occurred that seemed to favor the Chinese gymnasts. Although I'm by no means an expert on gymnastics I've been watching the Olympics for more than fifty years and have always felt the judging is suspect. Not being jingoisticly inclined my interest was not about USA! USA! While I would never have encouraged my daughters to go through the rigors of Olympic Training, I can well empathize with the work, pain and sacrifice these athletes go through to even get to the Olympics. It therefore offends me that greed, politics and personal prejudice rules the Olympic World in any event requiring judging. I shed tears at the ending last night, while at the same time a part of my brain mocked my emotional involvement. These mixed feelings are invoked in me because I celebrate the humanity in all of us, while I decry the savagery and hypocrisy with which we treat each other. The older I get the more complex life seems to be and the easy opinions seem those of fools. As the lawyers on this site well know from their training, most issues can be argued from either side. Jill & Mespo,
Thank you. you know I feel the same about your comments. Incidentally, last night my wife and I stayed up to 1:30 am watching the Women’s Gymnastic Finals, where the Gold and Silver medal were won by Katia & Shawn from the US. While normally past our bedtime, we felt compelled to watch because there was some suspicious judging that occurred that seemed to favor the Chinese gymnasts. Although I’m by no means an expert on gymnastics I’ve been watching the Olympics for more than fifty years and have always felt the judging is suspect. Not being jingoisticly inclined my interest was not about USA! USA!

While I would never have encouraged my daughters to go through the rigors of Olympic Training, I can well empathize with the work, pain and sacrifice these athletes go through to even get to the Olympics. It therefore offends me that greed, politics and personal prejudice rules the Olympic World in any event requiring judging. I shed tears at the ending last night, while at the same time a part of my brain mocked my emotional involvement.

These mixed feelings are invoked in me because I celebrate the humanity in all of us, while I decry the savagery and hypocrisy with which we treat each other. The older I get the more complex life seems to be and the easy opinions seem those of fools. As the lawyers on this site well know from their training, most issues can be argued from either side.

]]> By: mespo727272 http://jonathanturley.org/2008/08/14/the-golden-years-china-challenged-over-age-of-female-gymnasts/#comment-20817 mespo727272 Fri, 15 Aug 2008 00:51:14 +0000 http://jonathanturley.wordpress.com/?p=3304#comment-20817 Michael: Ditto me too. Michael:

Ditto me too.

]]> By: Jill http://jonathanturley.org/2008/08/14/the-golden-years-china-challenged-over-age-of-female-gymnasts/#comment-20806 Jill Thu, 14 Aug 2008 19:31:06 +0000 http://jonathanturley.wordpress.com/?p=3304#comment-20806 Michael, I really value your posts. They are always thoughtful. Jill Michael,

I really value your posts. They are always thoughtful.

Jill

]]> By: Michael Spindell http://jonathanturley.org/2008/08/14/the-golden-years-china-challenged-over-age-of-female-gymnasts/#comment-20798 Michael Spindell Thu, 14 Aug 2008 18:29:35 +0000 http://jonathanturley.wordpress.com/?p=3304#comment-20798 I've put in many guilty hours of watching these Olympics. The guilt stems from the fact that the Chinese Government has devolved into a classic model of Fascist Dictatorship, i.e. The interweaving of totalitarian government with business interests. This Olympics should never have been given to China if one is to view awarding them from the purported ideals of the Olympic Committee. However, it is plainly true that the Olympics are propelled more by greed and corporate interests, than by a mythical "Olympic Spirit." Yet I watch, fascinated by the dedication of individual athletes to achieving success in their sport and with the knowledge that having the skill to be among the World's Best Athletes, is an achievement to take pride in. Even as I watch though, I listen to corporate shill announcers focussed only on building narratives that draw too sharp distinctions between winning and losing. Those girls certainly didn't look and probably weren't 16. As Jill said the performance enhancement issues are swept under the rug despite pious pronouncements to the contrary. Children are removed from their parent's care at young ages to pursue a dream that will cast most of them as failures. That is not just China, many other countries have been doing similar things for years, including the US where pre-teen tennis prodigy's go to live with coaches, rather than their families. The biggest lie of all is that the Olympics are not about politics. It is all about politics, business and the prestige of countries. Despite all that I find myself watching rapt in my chair for hours, often moved to tears, and rooting for the "good guys." A sucker for the drama of it all. I’ve put in many guilty hours of watching these Olympics. The guilt stems from the fact that the Chinese Government has devolved into a classic model of Fascist Dictatorship, i.e.
The interweaving of totalitarian government with business interests. This Olympics should never have been given to China if one is to view awarding them from the purported ideals of the Olympic Committee. However, it is plainly true that the Olympics are propelled more by greed and corporate interests, than by a mythical “Olympic Spirit.”

Yet I watch, fascinated by the dedication of individual athletes to achieving success in their sport and with the knowledge that having the skill to be among the World’s Best Athletes, is an achievement to take pride in. Even as I watch though, I listen to corporate shill announcers focussed only on building narratives that draw too sharp distinctions between winning and losing.

Those girls certainly didn’t look and probably weren’t 16. As Jill said the performance enhancement issues are swept under the rug despite pious pronouncements to the contrary.
Children are removed from their parent’s care at young ages to pursue a dream that will cast most of them as failures.
That is not just China, many other countries have been doing similar things for years, including the US where pre-teen tennis prodigy’s go to live with coaches, rather than their families.

The biggest lie of all is that the Olympics are not about politics. It is all about politics, business and the prestige of countries. Despite all that I find myself watching rapt in my chair for hours, often moved to tears, and rooting for the “good guys.” A sucker for the drama of it all.

]]> By: Jill http://jonathanturley.org/2008/08/14/the-golden-years-china-challenged-over-age-of-female-gymnasts/#comment-20789 Jill Thu, 14 Aug 2008 16:25:07 +0000 http://jonathanturley.wordpress.com/?p=3304#comment-20789 And no one is using steroids either. I think the Olympics should just be called the World Wide Mixed Marital Arts/Mad Max Memorial Tournament and leave it at that. (With the exception of no steroids or brutal training regimes for children. This is destructive to the minds and bodies of young people.) I do wish the steroid information was public. These doping doctors seem to know a great deal on how to help people and it's time for an open evaluation of these "interventions" to see if they can benefit the wider population. And no one is using steroids either. I think the Olympics should just be called the World Wide Mixed Marital Arts/Mad Max Memorial Tournament and leave it at that. (With the exception of no steroids or brutal training regimes for children. This is destructive to the minds and bodies of young people.)

I do wish the steroid information was public. These doping doctors seem to know a great deal on how to help people and it’s time for an open evaluation of these “interventions” to see if they can benefit the wider population.

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