I’d also like to thank JT for hosting this forum. A voice without audience is like a tree falling in an empty forest. You’ve drawn quite an interesting crowd, Prof. Turley. That says as much about you as it does about them.

Thank you, kind sir.

Very eloquent and thoughtful, and it must be so because unlike many posts, I savored every word.

Yeah. That’s it.

Oh I agree that there are Republicans who haven’t drank the kool-aid. I feel sorry for them. They’ve been thrown under the bus by their own people. You are right and you’ll see by my earlier post that I think liberals are just as guilty of playing dirty politics as anyone. As I stipulated, politics is a rough game. It’s not for the faint of heart.

I have no problem with true conservatives or true conservatism. There are valid conservative stances and on many issues I am indeed conservative in the classic sense of the word. My father and grandfather are/were conservative. Conservative and liberal, despite what the media would lead you to believe, are not polar opposites until men make them that way as a divisive tool. They are merely different approaches to a problem much like a screwdriver and a hammer. Some tools are better for some jobs than others. For example, fiscal conservatism (again, in the classic sense) works well in most instances, but on social issues, money must be a secondary consideration to the common good – a hallmark of liberalism.

The real issue is that those who say they are conservative in the leadership today usually aren’t. The label “conservative” has been co-opted by fascists, pure and simple. Anti-liberal (NOT conservative, but anti-liberal, there is a difference), authoritarian, militaristic, repressive, corporatist war-mongers. My problem is with fascists. Just one scant goose step away from Nazis. They make my blood boil. Greed is a sin in most major religions for a very good reason.

The Grand Old Party has been dead a long time now. In their place is a doppleganger. Their skin is inhabited by criminals who sold out the interests of America to Saudi Arabia and their own greed. These are criminals with a proven track record of violating the Constitution and putting our troops in harms way to make a buck while letting those who attacked us run free. Do I blame the GOP rank and file? To a degree, but some people are more susceptible to propaganda than others. Such is life. That is why you are seeing true conservatives realize the mistake they’ve made and crossing party lines to vote. Those are the ones who are more propaganda resistant or realize that the reality of trickle down economics is more like whiz upon economics. This is a case of the Russian adage being proven true. “A fish rots from the head.” The head in this case is Bush Co., PNAC, lobbyists, big oil (Halliburton, Exxon, et al.), the GOP obstructionist Senators and Saudi Arabia. They all deserve the punishment fitting traitors and enemies of the state. They desire(d) to be kings when in reality they are the lowest of the low. They had/have a stated intent to create a permanent Republican majority. By definition that’s antithetical to the very fabric of democracy.

Well, if I had to name a party affiliation, I’d have to say I’m a Jeffersonian Constitutionalist. The Declaration of Independence is not just an important cornerstone to our legal tradition, but I feel it is one of the most important documents drafted in all of recorded history. No man is my king or master. We went to war with the English to ensure we didn’t have to suffer the arrogance, insanity and/or stupidity of a monarch. I’ll be damned if I’ll roll over to bow and scape for these fascists. I’ll fight to the death rather than be a subject of tyrants, but I’d most rather see the Constitution restored quickly followed by the treasonous Bush administration and their criminal corporate masters being incarcerated and forced to make big rocks into little rocks with a plastic dental hammer for the next 35 years.

“Right, you are,” said the red-faced author.

The current conservative era began in the 50′s with Wm. F. Buckley, who founded the National Review with Wm. A. Rusher. Both of them believe in the rule of the elite, though some said Rusher was actually a Monarchist. They founded the conservative movement which eventually took ove the Republican Party. However, they were intelligent people and so realized that an elitist philosophy would not be appealing to most people. The succeeding Conservative theorists began to wrap themselves around “social issues” that could be manipulated to get most people to vote against their own best interests.

In Reagan they found the ideal frontman. He was moderately intelligent and a competent actor, but historically/philosophically ignorant. He married into a Birchite family who changed him politically and was supported for years by the world’s largest defense contractor, GE. He probably was guileless in his new conservative beliefs, but lacking intellectual depth, he talked in cliches. A perfect stooge. In the years since Reagan the Republican Party has recruited many minor league Reagans, intellectually challenged but able to stay on message. Bachman is merely one of many who are too ignorant to even understand the implications of their statements. In my mind this doesn’t relieve them of responsibility, but merely serves to make them easier to understand.

As for Gino, while from the proliferation of your posts I find it hard to believe that you are as politically neutral as you profess, but yes you are correct there are those on the Left who behave just as badly. The difference is in volume and from that perspective the Republicans win hands down.

I don’t usually throw around the word evil, I think like hero it’s used to much. I’m also not entirely sure how I would define evil, except to say that needlessly inflicting pain on any person is evil. So when you have a party led by men who sanction torture, I think it’s safe to call it evil. That’s not to say that every person who runs as a Republican is evil, just that the Party leadership, and the current philosophy of the party are.

That being said, anyone in political power that doesn’t speak out against torture needs to be held accountable, no matter which team they play for. I think the Democratic party holds a large chuck of the blame for the current state of America, and the individuals responsible should be held accountable. The other side of the coin is that I’m more than willing to vote for a Republican who will fight the degradation of the U.S. Constitution.

From what I’ve read, you’ll agree that voting for a “team” is what got us into this mess. Politicians feel (rightly so) they can count on their team’s votes no matter what their actions are, which is why we have a quasi-dictator in the executive branch and Congressional Leadership more interested in not rocking the boat than pursuing justice.

Along with what you said I notice many conservative Republicans have come out in favor of Obama. I’m certain most of them have not seen the party as representative of actual conservatism for years. A letter to the editor in “The Blade” was instructive of this. This man has been a precinct committeeman and he quoted from the instruction sheet he received from 1960 explaining why, “I should always vote for the GOP…Government is to serve the individual, never to dominate him.” He ended with: “What’s happened to my Grand Old Party?”

It’s statements like that that keep me coming back and posting comments like the one above.

And Jill, I heard about the ‘Boogie Man’ documentary on NPR and it sounds really interesting.

The morale of the story is don’t act like their puppet and you won’t get treated like one. The GOP’s days are numbered in their current configuration and with their current strategy. Again, feel free to back the Neocons by carrying out their fascist agenda of demonizing liberal thought. It didn’t work for Hitler, Mussolini or Franco. It’s not going to work for you or the GOP either. Any victory fascism makes will always be short lived. History shows it’s an ultimately myopic self-destructive form of governance, second in stupidity only to theocracy. Hm, corporatism and profit over all vs. belief over logic and fact. In the history of bad ideas, it may be a stupidity tie, but I digress. Technology is democratizing education. It is a proven trend that education breeds liberalism. Liberalism is antithetical to authoritarianism, also a key component of fascism. Think about that next time someone with an (R) behind their names votes against education. You’ll just keep losing in the long term as it becomes harder and harder to conceal the truth about their criminal organization and lies. Tools have changed. The way people learn has changed. Times have changed. The people you defend haven’t and probably can’t. Simply put, they are power mad. Emphasis on “mad”. As in insane. As in willing to destroy the world rather than lose “power”.

Screw that.

I am not for Obama for partisan reasons. I don’t care what his party is any more than I care what color he is. His ideas are solid and his respect for the Constitution is required to fix this mess. DNC or RNC? What kind of choice is that? I would prefer more options than two. The DNC are weak, graft swilling half-wits by in large, unwilling to uphold their sworn Constitutional duties when it means a fight or pulling their noses out of the lobbyist’s slop trough (cough cough Pelosi cough cough). If all of them had the brass cajones of Rep. Kucinich, it’d be a different story. I am not against the GOP for partisan reasons. I have voted Republican in the past. No more, but we once had common ground. I am against them because they are now way beyond being graft pigs. They are the party of bad ideas. They are now demonstrably evil. Suspension of habeas corpus, illegal signing statements that circumvent Congress, torture, the Patriot Act, ignoring legal orders by the judiciary, abused and abusive domestic spying, outing a CIA operative for political gain, contracting mercenaries, no bid contracts to the VP’s true employer (Halliburton), poking our allies in the eye, illegal (and unethical) war against a country that did not attack us while sucking up to one that did (that would be Saudi Arabia in case you missed where the men and money behind 9/11 came from, it was in all the papers), the destruction of our international credibility . . . the list goes on and on. I won’t even mention the deregulation they pushed since Reagan that has caused the financial crisis currently sweeping the globe.

In eight years, they have done more damage to this country than ANY terrorist was or is capable of. And they did it for the basest of motives: profit/greed and the illusion of power.

Although I may see you on a march (I kinda doubt that), I’ll see you on the eight fold path as soon as you get your mind and your actions right. Right now, they are cloudy at best. The path you are on now only leads to more and greater suffering. Read up on fascism if you doubt it. By attacking liberal thought, you have sided with evil men or, at a minimum, with their agenda. If you don’t see this as incompatible with the eight fold path, then I cannot open your eyes for you. I can only point the way.

She got in with her face, ( guess, but not her brains or the lack thereof.

I want an investigation of members of Congress to see if their too stupid to be in office. We know Ms. Bachmann is far to stupid to be there. Clearly, she had no idea who McCarthy is, of course, dumb *ass Chris Matthews doesn’t say a word, but could have said, “you investigate for communism?” That would have pretty much nailed Bachmann on the spot (not that she wasn’t already nail, I guess). Chris could have said, ” a long last, have you no shame congresswoman?”

Let’s hope the Democratic challenger runs ads with McCarthy and Bachmann side by side, followed-up with words from Edward R. Murrow to top it all off. And then say, Bachmann obviously knows nothing of history, what is she doing in congress without knowing basic American history? How can she be a lawmaker, know nothing about law or witch hunts, something along those lines?

Here’s a tip for free. Don’t assume I support the GOP because I criticize the left. I’m not a Republican. I’m not voting for McCain-Palin. I’m just pointing out, again, that the left also engages in the tactics they decry.

See you on the eight-fold path, or maybe the thousand li march.

winnacostals.

rofl – I need to party with you, funny woman.

I can’t wait to use that. They’ll probably think it’s a compliment though.

Gino,

Here’s a tip for free. Never end an argument with “whatever” unless you’re a 15 year old mallrat.

As a rabid independent (I think both parties suck but for different reasons), I’d like to say feel free to keep supporting the party of hate, corruption and blatant crimes against our own citizens. In a few years, Hollywood will be looking for a new “stock” villain. The GOP will fill the bill nicely. And I mean playbill, not bill of attainder as much as the GOP would like to bring that back in addition to stomping on habeas corpus.

Different? No, not at all. Both sides fight dirty. Both have read Machiavelli and Sun Tzu. They just didn’t understand them or purposefully misapply the lessons therein. (Example: Niccolo or Sun would never have hired Blackwater, but they both would have pounced on impeachment.) However, who was piloting the ship when the iceberg(s) showed up? That would be Bush Co., PNAC and the GOP obstructionists in the Senate. Politics is a rough game but the bottom line is this: you broke it, you bought it.

See you at the movies.

http://overlawyered.com/2008/10/in-which-i-get-called-thought-police/

Before you say it, let me guess. This is different, right? Right?

Whatever.

Questions of patriotism loom quite large in this nation and its campaigns. Kitty Dukakis was rumored (by the RNC) to have burned a flag at a protest rally. The patriotism described is: “my country right or wrong, go back to where you came from, how dare you question your govt.” version of patriotism that I have seen many places, including this blog.

In order to avoid showing his own fingertips on accusations of “lacking patriotism” they would be made in their ugliest forms by lackies, although candidates would pick up on the rumors/themes thrown out by the lackies.

This is scary and despicable. It should be exposed as the act of cynical, hateful people they are. They are not patriots, only wins at all costers or as I’m calling them now: “winnacostals”.

“I would not call Bachmann herself a fascist. Odd as it sounds, to do so would be to grant her far too much credit. For one to embrace an -ism, even a repugnant one, one needs to have read a certain amount of history and political philosophy. Bachmann is just an idiot. She wouldn’t know Edmund Burke from Billie Burke (she played the good witch in the Wizard of Oz), and she obviously has no idea that, in her rejection of the two bedrock American principles of separation of church and state and freedom of thought, she is the one who is as anti-American as they come.”

I was pleased to learn that the “Lord” told her to run for the House, and that in 2006 she called herself a “fool for Christ” (or for anyone else too it seems). These neo-cons are just so predictable!

* Interestingly none of three finished college but some hold “honorary” degrees.