Sen. Elizabeth Dole appears unwilling to simply run on her faith. She is now running an ad that accuses her opponent state Sen. Kay Hagan of being “godless” because she was seen in the company of atheists at a fundraiser. Hagan is now taking legal action to stop the political ads. Despite a cultivated image of Southern charm, Dole has now shown that she will sink to any low to get reelected. However, Hagan will have a very tough time getting a court to regulate political speech.
I was just in North Carolina and Sen. Elizabeth Dole is clearly in trouble. Listed as one of the least effective senators in Congress and barely visiting her state in the last six years, Dole is viewed as the poster child for a Beltway insider who is out of touch with her state.
The godless attack is based on a news report that Hagan’s attended a September fund-raiser in Boston. The event, co-hosted by about 40 people, was held at the home of the author Wendy Kaminer and her husband, Woody Kaplan. Kaplan was on the advisory board of the Godless Americans Political Action Committee, which supports the separation of church and state. However, the event was not sponsored by the committee.
The TV ad prominently shows Hagan while airing a comment from one the organization’s leaders saying, “There was no Jesus.” The announcer says “A leader of the Godless Americans PAC recently held a secret fundraiser in Kay Hagan’s honor. . . .Godless Americans and Kay Hagan. She hid from cameras. Took godless money. What did Hagan promise in return?”
Even in this mean-spirited campaign season, this is something for the scum bucket. What is remarkable is the lack of condemnation from other politicians. Dole seems to have taken a lesson from the campaign consultants for Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. It is not clear whether Dole wants to beat Hagan as an opponent or burn Hagan as a witch in this frenzy of faith-based politics.
For the full story, click here.
Oh the smell of desperation!
Liberals are godless. It is their choice, so why are they offended when people recognize it?
Liberals vote for immorality. It is a matter of record.
Leaving aside the proper response of “so what if she is?”, the ad is especially reprehensible since Hagan is an elder of her church and teaches Sunday school. Clearly her faith matters a great deal to her and Dole would have to know this.
But I guess violating one of the Ten Commandments (about bearing false witness) is okay if you’re a Republican and behind in the polls.
Marianne,
It is typical of the Republican, claiming to have Christian family values and then allowing this immoral ad about an opponent. What part of the “Thou shalt not lie” commandment do they not understand. It is time for Libby Dole to make her exit.
“Liberals vote for immorality. It is a matter of record.”
Marianne,
Please explain what you mean by this statement. I do not understand what you mean.
Thank you,
Jill
Marianne
…and Catholic liberals, and Jewish liberals? You either have to do some explaining of your position or an examination of your own conscience.
Liberals vote for homosexuality and abortion to be legal. It does not matter if they call themselves Christians. If a person does not meet the Bible definition of Christian, then they are not one.
We are expected to walk the walk, and obey the guidelines of the bible. If someone opposes the bible, and what it teaches, then it just creates confusion, and error, when they claim they are christian.
There are many churches falling away from what Jesus taught, and what is in the bible. This was actually predicted in scripture, so I am not surprised. But the fact is that any true Christian is supposed to honor God first in all their decisions, and obey the bible in their actions.
To do the opposite, and continue to claim Christianity as a faith is just hypocrisy. They should just admit they are not Christians but something else.
Liberals vote for abortion in any form for any reason – even if the baby is already born but not wanted. Liberals also support freedom of speech, which is good, but then want to pass legislation condemning expressing religious convictions that “homosexuality is a sin” as “hate crime.”
This is unfair, when gays can bash Christians all day long in what they say. if their speech is protected, then ours should be also.
Kate Hagen supports this legislation. She supports Obama who also votes against God’s commandments. Her church permits homosexual members. So it has strayed from accepted Bible beliefs on these issues.
It is unfortunate for Christianity that her church is away from bible beliefs, but they should rename their organization.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_pru.htm
Hagan supports what Obama supports, who also belongs to a “church” that has strayed away from basic bible beliefs.
maybe the following will help clarify things. This contrasts the Christian position with the liberal side. People can vote what they want, but this is why Christians support McCain, rather than Obama. If Obama was different on these issues, then maybe that would affect the vote.
Federal Protection of Traditional Marriage
Limiting marriage to the union of one man
to one woman under federal law
State Constitutional Amendments that
Protect Traditional Marriage Limiting marriage to the union of one man
to one woman under state law
McCain supports – Obama opposses
Teaching of Homosexuality in Public Schools Use of materials that encourage or support homosexuality as a positive lifestyle
McCain Opposses – Obama Supports
Hate Crime Laws
Legislation that criminalizes certain actions or
statements on the basis of sexual orientation
McCain Opposses — Obama Supports
Homosexual Adoption Expanding laws to permit adoption by homosexual couples
McCain Opposses —- Obama Supports
Constitutional Right to Abortion
Roe v. Wade was correctly decided
Protecting Infants Born Alive
Laws requiring protection for infants born alive
as a result of a botched abortion
McCain Supports —- Obama Opposses
Prohibiting Partial-Birth Abortion
Laws banning the procedure known as partial-birth abortion
MCCain Supports —- Obama Opposses
Making it a Crime to Cross State Lines
to Obtain Abortions for Minors
Transporting a minor across state lines for an abortion
without the minor’s parents’ consent should be criminalized
McCain Supports — Obama Opposses
Nomination of Pro-Life Supreme Court Justices
Will nominate judges who will interpret
the Constitution as written
McCain Supports —– Obama Opposses
Private Handgun Ownership
Interprets Second Amendment as guaranteeing the right
to own and use handguns for self-defense
McCain Supports —- Obama Opposses
Allowing Parents to Exercise School Choice
Government vouchers allowing parents to place
children in school of their choice
McCain Supports —– Obama Opposses
Immigration Reform and Border Security
Secure U.S. borders before granting some form
of amnesty to illegal immigrants living in U.S.
McCain Supports —— Obama Supports
Government Control of Health Care
Government funded or regulated health care
McCain Opposses —— Obama Supports
Reducing U.S. Dependence on Foreign Oil
By lifting ban on off-shore drilling for oil and gas
McCain Supports —– Obama Opposses
Hey marianne,
I am a proud Independant Atheist American who WAS going to vote for Dole. I am not ashamed by my beliefs. I am outraged by the Bigotry & Hypocrocy demonstrated by your canidate.
Darn right I am godless! I don’t need a religion to “Save my soul”.
I always do my best to do the right thing by myself and others. Some of you so called Christians could learn a few lessons for me.
Marianne, Like Dole, you come off to me like a bigot and a HYPOCRITE.
Keep your religion out of politics and out of my face.
Hey Dole,
I demand you step down and apologize to America. You are not right for the job. Let’s not forget there is supposed to be a seperation of church and state. One of which you seemed to have forgotten!!!
HOW LOW CAN YOU GO? ASK DOLE!!!
OH MARIANNE,
Save it for Sunday. LOL. You are so ignorant about other beliefs your comment is rediculous to me. The constitution has in it that one can have religious freedom. This is not a one size fits all country. Just because your religion is against abortion, gay marriage, and everything else doesn’t mean that others share that same belief.
What make you think your religion is right and absolute truth. Can you prove it using the Scientific Method. Show me your math. By the way, when you get a chance you should check out the Trial of Dover, Pennsylvania.
Until then KEEP RELIGION OUT OF POLITICS!
HOW LOW CAN YOU GO? ASK LADY DOLE!!!
Marianne, How are guns Jesus-like?
How does the Bible define a Christian, and where exactly is that?
The message of Jesus was not to judge others and to love one another. That which you do to the least of his brethren, that you do unto him.
Are you better than a homosexual? Do you really think Jesus himself would agree?
Elizabeth Dole is knowingly bearing false witness for political gain. How godly is that?
Last night KO stated Abe Lincoln never made ‘this’ remark (on the subject of ‘Fools’) – ‘You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time,’ as I’ve long believed he had.
Apparently, the quote has long been ‘attributed’ to Lincoln but also to PT Barnum, apparently.
Whatever…
It’s still so often quite apt, in my view.
——
http://www.bartleby.com/100/448.html
John Bartlett (1820–1905). Familiar Quotations, 10th ed. 1919.
NUMBER: 6679
AUTHOR: Abraham Lincoln (1809–1865)
Does anyone know of any election where either party played nice?
Here in Indiana, Republicans are calling Mike Montagano “a kid who wants to be class president” (he’s 27 yr old law student)
Democrats say that “Mark Souder said he’d change Washington, but Washington changed him”. (Been in congress 14 yrs, I think)
I know both are petty, but it’s how the game works these days
Sally,
I don’t think the problem is with the dirt slinging, I think it’s with the type of dirt slung. Evoking religion in political discourse usually serves two purposes, to silence any possible discussion and to get people to vote based on their fear of “other”.
Marianne,
You are such a wonderful righteous woman. We need more Christians in government. Most people don’t realise it but the Constitution actually says that the president must believe in baby Jesus. It’s right there where our Christian founding fathers put it.
As a young country we need more Christian guidence. Hell, as a young planet!!! I mean shit, the planet’s only 5000 years old.
I definately believe one’s Christian faith should be a litmus test for public office. So noooo way am I voting for that McCain. “McCain” what kind of name is that???!! Definately a “Papist” controled by the Anti-Christ in Rome. Sure he says he’s not Catholic, but just look at that funny name. Papist all the way.
And what did Jebus say?? It will be easier for a camel to walk through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to go to Heaven??? Shit, the McCains have hundreds of millions from selling alcohol!!! They’re going straight to Hell!!!!!!!!! Rich people should be allowed to keep every ever-loving penny that their great grandparents earned. Then they can gop straight to Hell!!! I’m with you Marianne, fuck McCain.
Lindy Lou.
Your comments indicate you do not understand scripture. A believer does have the right to judge righteous judgment, as long as they are not guilty of the same sin. Any evaluation of behavior is a judgment. What we cannot do is assign the motives, only God can do that. I can see someone steal, and call him a thief (judgment), but only God may know why he is stealing, and if he will repent later.
Religious freedom includes freedom for Christians, which is the predominant group. WHy should we be denied our rights, when others have theirs? If homosexuals say they are right, then why can’t we say they are not right. Right now, gays bash Christians, but if we repsond by saying what they do is sin, which is just a bible position, then we get accused of hate speech. That is a double standard, where only one side has rights. So we want our rights of speech as well. They accuse us of “homophobia.” We are not afraid of them..we just say what is in the bible. Maybe they are Christ – phobic. so now we are even. If they attack us of being Christians and expressing our beliefs, then we should be able to bring them to court for hate speech.
liberals lie on tv…so who are they to point the finger at anyone?
Marianne,
I’m not assuming that you are one of the people involved in the following, because most Christians aren’t. The problem isn’t with Christians who say that being homosexual is a sin, it’s with Christians who call for violence against gays, or discriminate against them, or even have so little taste as to protest at people’s funerals. These behaviors should never be condoned, either by the law (although I assume that the protesting at funerals is legal, just reprehensible)or society in general.
All that being said, America has a secular government. That means that the laws should have a basis aside from religion. Please keep your religion out of my politics and I’ll keep my politics out of your religion. Otherwise they both get cheapened.
Seamus…please you’ve got to be joking….right?
Gyges
I totally agree that NO ONE should be physically harmed for any reason… including gays. Christians are to witness god’s love and forgiveness..teach and educate, but not do violence.
unfortuanately for me, politics is already in my religion.
abortion laws allow my daughter to be secretly counseled to murder her unborn child.
lax pornography laws allow exploitation of children, and let predators go free.
civil rights laws discriminate against free speech for Christians, labeling it as hate speech….however obscenity and christian bashing is allowed.
Christian pastors are forbidden to discuss politicians who oppose morals. If they do, they may lose their non-profit status.
Obscenity is now on TV, since it is legal….we struggle trying to prevent our kids from seeing it…you never know what will happen next, even with shows that look benign
Forcing our children in public schools to learn that what we consider immoral is “normal” ..this violates our rights.
originally separation of church and state meant that government would NOT control religion….not the other way around…..
today the government DOES control religious expression.
Marianne,
“Lindy Lou.
Your comments indicate you do not understand scripture. ”
Probably true, Marianne. So maybe you can explain to me “You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.”
Remember the woman at the well? Caught in adultery, remember? Jesus would not allow the crowd to stone her. Let those without sin throw the first stone. Marianne, are you without sin?
Seeing how you deny your hatred and cling to your right to judge and hurt people even over the objections of our Lord, I would say Satan has a good hold on your heart, girlfriend.
Did I hurt your feelings? I’m sorry. I’m glad to hear you aren’t homophobic. How bout a little kiss to make things all better?
Love,
LindyLou
Marianne,
I’m not going to argue morality with you.
You’ll find there’s any interesting discussion of the Tax-exempt status of churches and their ability to endorse candidates earlier in the month.
Other than that and the hate speech issue (which I’ve already commented on), in not one of the instances you’ve listed does the Government say anything about what you have to do or how you can express yourself. Instead it doesn’t impose YOUR limitations on other people. You think Pornography is an evil, don’t look at it. You want your kids brought up believing certain things, teach those things to them. You don’t want your kids hearing obscenity on T.V., don’t let them watch shows that contain it. I fully support any of those decisions on your part, but don’t try and force the whole nation to make those choices and cry that it’s only protecting your freedom.
Pardon me, it was on Sept. 8th, times flies…
http://jonathanturley.org/2008/09/08/endorsed-by-god-religious-right-defies-irs-on-church-endorsements/
Marianna, in responce to your latest reply.
You totally agree that there should be no violence? You will be voting for a canidate that promotes the violence in a county that had nothing to do with 911. What does hes say about Iran? Bomb, Bomb, Bomb Iran. You better think hard about what your canidate for president might do. By the way, I am not saying that I am for or agaist this but needed to point that out to you.
You say that politics are in your religion. Well get this. Whaaaa!
Non-believers have to deal with your religion on a daily basis whether they like it or not. Not with just everyday life but in politics too. Check out the Trial of Dover Pennsylvania. How the Christians of a PUBLIC school board burned a childs myral of the evolution of man and then did there best to make the Biology teachers teach Creationism in the form of Intelligent Design. That didn’t go well. There is a reason for keeping church and state seperate. Not everyone in this country are christians.
Abortion should be kept legal. If you think it is wrong then don’t do it. And if you raised your children to keep their pants up, skirts down and legs crossed you should have nothing to worry about. Your a christian, with christian values. Pass it on to your offspring.
You talk about “lax pornography” Take a good look at what your catholic brethrens did to all of those children. THAT MAKES ME SICK! Your religion teaches that it is ok to sin as long as you repent or get saved, or what ever. GIVE ME A BREAK. Some of the biggest dirt bags I know are self proclaimed CHRISTIANS.
Boo Hoo I get bashed for being a Christian. Try being a christian in a Muslim world. Better yet try being Athiest in a Christian world. I can not speak of which I believe without getting persecuted or told I will be prayed for. I get harrassed on the road because of my Darwin sign on the back of my truck. There are some Christians I know that I would not dream of telling that I am an Atheist for the fear of what would happen. Most of your people are not nice. What do you think you would do if I told you I was Atheist and believed in abortion to your face? Christians are the most judgemental people I know.
Christian Pastors should have their funding cut if they want to start talking about morals. I don’t think they should be funded at all. My beliefs are not funded.
If you don’t want your children watching great classis such as Family Guy or other programs then boot the behinds off of the couch and out the door to play. Americans are too fat anyway. By the way, I don’t subscibe to any cable or satelite TV. You all can live with out it. Try reading. It is better anyway. I also like some of the shows with obscenities in them. Nothing is sacred with Family Guy and it is Hallarious.
You are probrably one of those Christians that oppose Abortion and birth control. If that isn’t the most idiotic belief then I don’t know what is. This belief totally irresponcible. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. If you want to cut down on abortions then birth control will help to do that. Sex education is a good way to inform children of childbearing age what can happen during sex and how to prevent it. I don’t care if you think that your child shouldn’t have sex until their married. The fact of the matter is more then likely they will. Whether you like it or not. You will not have control of that.
If you were refering to Biology being taught in schools instead of Intelligent Design then you had better come up with the Math & Science proving that we were created. The Math & Science is there for Evolution. If you don’t like that then send your children to a private or Christian school. I don’t want to hear that you don’t have the money to do that. If you can’t afford it then maybe you should have waited to have children. Can’t feed em, Don’t breed em.
Why do you think our ancestors left England? Our ancestors wanted religious freedom. They didn’t agree with the church. I am thankful they have the courage to do that. I don’t have to be controlled by the church or any other institution. By the way some of you so called Christians could learn a few moral values from me. I do the right thing not because I am afraid of going to hell but because it is the right thing. I don’t need the church dictating what is right and wrong.
I also noticed that you didn’t respond to my other replies. That’s ok. You are probrably afaid of going to Hell if you do. Afterall I’m an Atheist. Remember how Dole portrayed us. I am not afraid of you and will always stand up to folks who think that their religion is absolute truth based on magic and superstition. My people and I are the minorities in this and have every right to challenge you.
Gyges,
You stole my thunder. Marianne spent alot of time and space to tell us that the Constitution demands that Christians are the rightful heirs to the throne in heaven and in Washington, DC. Where in the Constitution does it say that you have to send your kids to public school?? Where in the Constitution or civil rights laws prevent Alleged Christians from expressing their religious views? If that was true, haven’t you just committed a crime? Obscenity is illegal, by the way. However, your definition of obscenity is likely to be different from the rest of us who actually believe in the Constitution. The Separation of Church and State is also in place to prevent you or others from establishing a national religion. One more question. Does the Bible outlaw torture of prisoners? I can remember the good Benedictine nuns telling me that Jesus was a peaceful soul who also wanted us to help the poorest in our society. McCain doesn’t seem too interested in helping the poor and McCain wants to bomb Iran who has not attacked us and he also voted to allow the CIA to torture our prisoners after voting to stop our armed forces from torturing. WWJT? (Who would Jesus torture?) Why don’t you just go to your church, which you are allowed to do and light some candles and pray for our redemption. That way we both will be helped. Those of us who vote for Obama will be picking the best candidate for our secular country and if your prayers work, we will be forgiven for our sin of voting for the one candidate who is trying to help us all.
Great goin’!
THANKS, Jill! Leave the door WIDE open and let all the flies in…
YOU are the ’stupid idiot’ if you think anybody here, with a half a brain, believes you are only naturally and genuinely interested in what other people think…
I don’t buy it – you being from WV, not OH, and bein’
‘trailer trash’ (your term) ‘n all…
Get off the stage…!!!
p.s. I, too, lived in West Virginia. My father was a general surgeon there for a couple of years, when I was very youn – before we moved to Pennsylvania.
Marianne:
I was getting upset with you then I read this statement you made:
“Liberals vote for abortion in any form for any reason – even if the baby is already born but not wanted.”
You are obviously a third grader in need of adult supervision so one can hardly bear you any malice, but pray tell even as a ten year old thinker, did religion make you this stupid or do you credit genetics?
Mespo,
Marianne knows not what she does.
Rafflaw:
Marianne knows … Not!
It is people like Marianne that need to be feared. Not Atheists.
Elizabeth Dole,
I demand you step down and apologize to the American people for your ignorance, hypocricy, and bigotry that you had displayed with your recent add. How dare you portray the Atheist’s like a bunch of corrupt CEO’s. By the way, you are no better then Hagen if you have received moneys from any corperations, or religions.
You are not fit for the job.
Ms. Dole is being sued for this lie!
Seamus,
I am in complete agreement with you.
Lindy Lou, I’m not even going to dignify that with a response except to provide this little gem – which I came across last night.
Remember (saint) Bartleby(at your service) a/k/a Cro’Magnon’man who did nothing more than try to start ridiculous arguments with anybody and everybody? On the first day, he attacked me and my dead ancestors for no reason, and because I stood up for them and myself by telling him to get lost, Jill took it as an opportunity to encourage him to stick around and become her new BFF.
It’s not I who is ‘threatened’…
http://jonathanturley.org/2008/09/08/endorsed-by-god-religious-right-defies-irs-on-church-endorsements/
FYI, just because my great grandparents were wealthy, at one time, doesn’t mean that what I have been able to achieve was handed to me.
Quite the opposite.
My WASP grandfather married a French Catholic.
Quite the family scandal in those days…
Dearest Jill,
Most people find that my logic is as sharp and inescapable as steel-jawed bear trap. Good-hearted people everywhere find that they MUST agree with everything I say at all times.
Sadly, my wife and son are apparently not good-hearted people and no doubt will burn in Hell forever with the McCains, the Pope, and paste-eaters of every ilk.
Seamus is code for ‘assume’
And where I come from a big brown nose spells something else
- entirely…
Seamus,
This is your cross to bear as a man of God. I’m sorry about your wife and son. They probably will go to hell. Maybe if you pray more for them that won’t happen.
No Patty C,
Seamus is gaelic for james. Go feed your cats .
For everyone who is totally discusted with Dole’s add attacking Hagen. Here is her campain number. 704-633-0014
Call it and let them know they are out of line.
RiverOtter,
That is a great idea! I’d be delighted to call.
I’m be happy to feed my Maine Coon kitties and my pups come Chow Time!
You won’t mind if I feed my other domestic farm pets – my prize horses, cattle, goats, pigs, roosters, chickens, ducks, and geese first, though, would you now?
I love them, too…
It is time for Americans to stand up and DEMAND that separation of church and state be honored in this country.I am Cristian Catholic and I am tired of the evil religious right using God for their filthy political agendas and political power. JESUS CHRIST,that I believed in as a child and believe in still today does not commune with evil,self serving,judgemental, do anything to win election,bigots.The past 28 years has saw a country manipulated into denying that this kind of filth is going on,thanks to highly paid spinmeisters on radio talk shows.The republiucan party used to stand for fiscal responsibility.Today,they know they can’t win elections on their agenda’s,because they have no decent agenda for our country.War proffiteering,stealing elections,dividing elections using hot button issues such as abortion,when we have a conservative U.S. supreme court who could have overturned Roe.vs.Wade years ago,along with state Supreme Courts who could have done the same.Abortion is used as a hot button issue to divide the electorate.And taxes? We will always have taxes.Taxes are not the problem.Misuse and abuse of taxes are the problem.The latest state blowup in filthy politic abuse is North Carolina with Elizabeth Dole runningan ad stating her opponent Kay Hagen in Godless.Filthy and disgracful.Dole later stated that she only wanted to retain a kind of life of faith in God and values.I think what she really means is to stay WAY BACK,to how life was many years ago.Again more hate and divison.I believe her ad was evil,Godless and that she needs a true Christian awakening at her 72 years.
If one has read and studied our American constitution,we understand what separation of Church and State means.It means all Americans have freedom of worship.I may not agree with another persons religion,but I understand the other person does not have to agree with mine! I think the key word here is RELIGION.Being religious does not mean Christianity. Again, political agendas have no right courting religions and hot button issues.I think anti abortionists need to camp out on Supreme Courts steps to protest this issue.I too am anti abortion,I could not have an abortion myself,BUT,I don’t have the right to dictate my views on another person.
Pam,
That was well said.
Thank you!