High price- due to taxes and otherwise- is the biggest factor that deters children from starting tobacco in the first place. Due to the state of the economy, we may see even more adults say enough is enough when it comes to tobacco as well. The only pr…

“wow waynbro,

If you were in a school and had your reading, your comprehension and your analysis of what I wrote graded as one would have a book report graded you would have earned a solid F!!!

It would be so much easier to respond to you if you had understood anything and argued reasonably or logically against any of it or added meaningful alternative views, but when you argue ridiculously against ideas I didn’t put forth in most cases, it makes untangling it all a really arduous task and I don’t have the time or energy right now. I’d sort of like to ask you to reread and rethink more carefully what I was actually saying and what my points are, but you really don’t give me much hope that it will be fruitful at this point.

Man, my post was obviously really long already, it took a lot of time and I thought I made my points fairly clear, but now with what you’ve done it would take basically re-explaining everything I said in a different way so that you could understand it and then also refuting/replying to each of your responses and statements and that would take a post TWICE as long as my first one!!!

I guess I will take the time to take one of the most ridiculous things you did here. Your absurd rant about what I said being good ammunition for right wing cretins to accuse the left of “hating our country,” in order to make that statement you had to take the punch line of a long paragraph out of context and completely change the meaning of it! If you were Hannity or Limpbone I would understand that you’re just being a slimy lying shitbag demagogue intentionally misleading people that didn’t actually get to hear the whole statement in context and judge for themselves what the person being quoted was really saying, but in this case my post is right there for everyone that’s reading your post to see!

Just to save people the trouble of scrolling back up I’ll put it here again in more of it’s context; what you quoted and replied to as “WE OURSELVES SHOULD BE BOMBED INTO THE STONE AGE!!!!” as if I was simply stating that as my unadorned opinion, was really this;

“Another fact is, that if some other country had done even a tiny fraction of what we have done there, and we had some strategic or financial interest in attacking that country, then our government and our media would use any of thousands of the very things we ourselves have done and used whichever of those things they felt most useful in order to call that country the worst of the worst, the most evil, the new Nazi’s etc., and we all would jump on the bandwagon and call for bombing them into the stone age…. in other words by our own “logic” “morals” “principals” “beliefs” and patterns of behavior, WE OURSELVES SHOULD BE BOMBED INTO THE STONE AGE!!!!”

Now I hate to call you stupid, but there are really only two choices here, either you really were attempting to demagogue in tried and true republican fashion in all its despicable, dishonest, sleazy, reprehensible and sickening manifestations or you truly need to go back and retake 3rd grade!

What was my point? That if the same “standards” were applied to this country that we apply to other countries when we decide to bomb them then we would be continuously bombed ourselves, and that if we actually think it’s right every time we bomb someone then if we were “fair and balanced” and honest then we would necessarily have to think it right that we be bombed. So rather than accusing me of saying we should be bombed, you have to ask yourself if YOU think our bombings are just, and if so then by what logic, aside from might makes right and that Americans apparently should own and rule the world with complete tyranny and hypocrisy, could you argue against any of dozens of countries bombing us?”

Wow Aaron, if I were grading you on your ability to bs you’d be an A student.

You make the case that you never meant to make the case that you were making the case for us to be bombed, and then proceed to make the case for why we should be bombed.

That’s an amazing feat of contortion worthy of only the highest grade.

Second, in your wordy ranting response you failed to even address your statements about the deaths of our troops.

So an “F” coming from you I’ll take as high praise.

You might have had some measure of credibility here had you avoided such blanket statements of condemnation as “We are a rogue nation, pure and simple. The emperor has no clothes, looks disgusting, and you can’t fucking see it! NO!, not just fucking Bush, he’s among the worst, but OUR WHOLE HISTORY!!!! WAKE THE FUCK UP AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!!!” That’s just far left demagoguery masquerading as thought. We are not some rogue nation,and our whole history is not replete with actions that render us a pariahs to the rest of the world. To the contrary, we do much good, and, unlike most nations, the bad always becomes public for all the world to see. So spare us the blame America First position and make your points calmly and rationally, lest we consider you how we consider most of our right wing bloviators–not at all.

If you were in a school and had your reading, your comprehension and your analysis of what I wrote graded as one would have a book report graded you would have earned a solid F!!!

It would be so much easier to respond to you if you had understood anything and argued reasonably or logically against any of it or added meaningful alternative views, but when you argue ridiculously against ideas I didn’t put forth in most cases, it makes untangling it all a really arduous task and I don’t have the time or energy right now. I’d sort of like to ask you to reread and rethink more carefully what I was actually saying and what my points are, but you really don’t give me much hope that it will be fruitful at this point.

Man, my post was obviously really long already, it took a lot of time and I thought I made my points fairly clear, but now with what you’ve done it would take basically re-explaining everything I said in a different way so that you could understand it and then also refuting/replying to each of your responses and statements and that would take a post TWICE as long as my first one!!!

I guess I will take the time to take one of the most ridiculous things you did here. Your absurd rant about what I said being good ammunition for right wing cretins to accuse the left of “hating our country,” in order to make that statement you had to take the punch line of a long paragraph out of context and completely change the meaning of it! If you were Hannity or Limpbone I would understand that you’re just being a slimy lying shitbag demagogue intentionally misleading people that didn’t actually get to hear the whole statement in context and judge for themselves what the person being quoted was really saying, but in this case my post is right there for everyone that’s reading your post to see!

Just to save people the trouble of scrolling back up I’ll put it here again in more of it’s context; what you quoted and replied to as “WE OURSELVES SHOULD BE BOMBED INTO THE STONE AGE!!!!” as if I was simply stating that as my unadorned opinion, was really this;

“Another fact is, that if some other country had done even a tiny fraction of what we have done there, and we had some strategic or financial interest in attacking that country, then our government and our media would use any of thousands of the very things we ourselves have done and used whichever of those things they felt most useful in order to call that country the worst of the worst, the most evil, the new Nazi’s etc., and we all would jump on the bandwagon and call for bombing them into the stone age…. in other words by our own “logic” “morals” “principals” “beliefs” and patterns of behavior, WE OURSELVES SHOULD BE BOMBED INTO THE STONE AGE!!!!”

Now I hate to call you stupid, but there are really only two choices here, either you really were attempting to demagogue in tried and true republican fashion in all its despicable, dishonest, sleazy, reprehensible and sickening manifestations or you truly need to go back and retake 3rd grade!

What was my point? That if the same “standards” were applied to this country that we apply to other countries when we decide to bomb them then we would be continuously bombed ourselves, and that if we actually think it’s right every time we bomb someone then if we were “fair and balanced” and honest then we would necessarily have to think it right that we be bombed. So rather than accusing me of saying we should be bombed, you have to ask yourself if YOU think our bombings are just, and if so then by what logic, aside from might makes right and that Americans apparently should own and rule the world with complete tyranny and hypocrisy, could you argue against any of dozens of countries bombing us?

Now I’m not the one believing in all of this attacking, overthrowing, invading, assassinating, controlling and bullying that we’ve done during our whole history so I’m not the one that needs to apply the same philosophy toward ourselves if I were to be fair and honest. Now if I were simply an honest observer and thought that whats good for the goose is good for the gander, turn about is fair play, an eye for an eye, revenge is sweet well then an argument could certainly be made couldn’t it? Sorry to spoil your day with a little truth and reality, but there it is.

Now personally I don’t want to see us bombed into the stone age like YOU would (as conclusively demonstrated by your rational for bombing Iraq) if you happened to be born in another country and had an honest picture of the things this country has actually done over time, which virtually every other country does (have an honest picture of us, which most of us don’t), but I do want as many US officials still living as possible to be tried and convicted for war crimes and crimes against humanity for countless operations and programs and I think they should be put to death for the mass murder they’re responsible for, and prior to death, for the many, and there are indeed many even though your media won’t tell you that, that were responsible for torture, they too should be tortured. I don’t believe in torture nor the death penalty in general, but in the case of high officials responsible for major war crimes and mass murder and torture I make the exception.

Furthermore we also need a gigantic truth and reconciliation program in which we come completely clean about every facet of our entire history both here and abroad, laying bare all the crimes, all the lies, all the details, all the plans and conspiracies, the underlying motives, from the Indian genocide, to slavery and everything since and right up to Iraq & the current domestic disaster capitalism. We must educate our own people about it all, and admit it all to everyone else who already knows it, we must sincerely pledge to do everything in our power to truly change our behavior and philosophy and correct our damage to whatever degrees possible. In addition to anything else we might do, in order to do and maintain the things I just said, we need to have an honest and competent media. We must make them criminally and civilly liable for lying, misleading, suppressing important truths and facts, failing to report things crucial to an informed public and electorate etc. There is much more, but how’s that for a start? Better than bombing us into oblivion?

“Second of all, in the face of that, whenever someone makes an argument that starts off talking about a few thousand dead Americans and how many wounded we have and how much money we’ve blown…. well, I’m sorry but that exhibits the very attitude, the very blindness, the very lack of humanity that allows these things to continually happen in the first place! When you allow and are complicit with with mindset that American lives are worth so much more than others, when you dehumanize “our” so called enemies to the point that, even if you thought it was “only” half a million of them dead, you find it appropriate to mention that only as an afterthought to what you position as your priority concern, how many deaths and injuries are incurred by the aggressor, the instigator, the invader, the occupier…. well, sir, you, and all who think that way, which seems to be almost all of us, are really enabling these things to happen. It is shameful.

Could you imagine a local news report about a situation where a man went on a rampage in your town and he beat to death a thousand people with his bare hands and the whole news report was only concerned with the bruises and damage done to the mans hands in the course of his slaughtering a thousand people? Please don’t just laugh at the absurdity of this, I want you to actually imagine it.”

Well “imagining” it is a good choice of words since your analogy exists only in your imagination.

You like so many confuse our soldiers with our leaders.

A soldier doesn’t have much choice in the matter. It’s either follow orders or spend 20 years in prison. It is not our soldiers we are to hold accountable for the death and destruction over there (except in extreme cases where clearly soldiers crossed the line) but the leaders who sent them there.

So excuse me for being grieved with the loss of over 4000 Americans, or the horror of 10’s of thousands of horribly wounded and disfigured, but it seems to me if you were as thoughtful as you are loud you’d realize that it’s not the young men and women who are compelled into war that bear the responsibility for that war.

That singular honor is reserved for the old men and women who sent them there.

“Ok, but the CIA was about to kill him you say, that would be ok with you? Why?”

Because Aaron there are times to kill and there are those who need to go, albeit those times are rare and should be used with caution and judgement.

If for example, the US suddenly declared that we were going unilaterally if need be, into the DR Congo, Darfur, Somalia, etc, to slaugther (and I do mean SLAUGHTER) these bands of armed militants who are committing mass genocide, as well as cutting off the arms and legs of little kids, raping them and their mothers and sisters, etc, I’d probably head down to the local recruiters office and say “sign me up”.

Then when everyone at the local recruiters office stopped laughing, I’d say “no no really guys, come on sign me up”.

“Good god, OF COURSE Iraq and the world would be better off with Saddam still in power!!!”

When you sady “of course” you imply that’s what one of us said. No one here said that and I doubt any believe that, I know I do not. Saddam Hussein was a tyrant who butchered tens of thousands of his own people just experimenting with Sarin gas. He tortured and slaughtered political opponents in his dungeons and launched offensive war into Kuwait where his army’s raped, plundered and murdered civillians.

And he constantly attacked our planes in the no fly zone, openly declaring war on us by using Anti Aircraft to shoot at our planes. You forget Saddam had lost a war to us in 1991 (perhaps you’re not old enough to remember)and that means he was merely a puppet ruler of a conquered regime, permitted to retain power only due to the wisdom of George Bush senior in not wanting to invade his country and “own” it, as his dumber son decided to do. Once you’ve started a war, and the US and it’s allies has subdued you, you don’t continue to shoot at their peacekeeping forces. Japan didn’t continue shooting at us once they were conquered. Neither did the Germans. He lost the war but he kept shooting at our planes, meaning HE was the troublemaker, and needed to go.

Aaron h.
1, December 15, 2008 at 10:06 pm

“Dude (waynebro),

First of all you and others that talk about half a million or less dead Iraqis are understating it by more than half! Kucinich held a hearing of sorts, prior to ‘06 so it was almost more of a press conference than a real hearing since no chair would call it, but he had a panel consisting of the Johns Hopkins team that performed the surveys as well as Juan Cole and others in which they laid out the methodology used for their figures and showed without a shadow of a doubt that it is the most reliable and respected method known, used by the UN, the US and all governments in all similar situations and always sited and quoted by governments and press in other war zones, and that it was even more precise the second time they did a study. They concluded over a million dead long ago!”

Dude….Aaron, I’m quite familiar with the study which was published in the “Lancet” Journal, and the methods employed (sampling as opposed to headcount) however to avoid the inevitable sidetrack debates over the actual number I prefer to use numbers which are generally accepted by the Pentagon, Red Cross and other international organizations and are of themselves horrific enough to drive the point home.

Aaron h.
1, December 15, 2008 at 10:06 pm

“So if he was an evil dictator oppressing, abusing and killing his own people then we shouldn’t have been supporting him and calling him “our friend” eh? And considering that we have consistently supported dictators, put them in power, funded them, armed them and used them for “our” own purposes such as suppressing their own people in order to provide slave or sweatshop labor for our corporations or to supply us with resources or other nefarious purposes”

You seem to forget we DID put Saddam into power. In fact we effectively created the country of Iraq. As for the “sweatshops” I don’t know of too many Nike’s or Lampshades being made in Iraq. In fact I don’t know of too many goods we purchase coming from Iraq period, other than a tiny fraction of our oil consumption.

Aaron h.
1, December 15, 2008 at 10:06 pm

“WE OURSELVES SHOULD BE BOMBED INTO THE STONE AGE!!!!”

Something tells me you’re allready slightly “bombed”, however declarations like yours are how the right wing is so successfully able to label us all as haters of our own country. They merely turn to extremist statements like yours and attribute your sentiments to us all.

What we did was bad, really, really bad. But half the country was and is against it, so lets focus on the better half and rebuilding what we have left, instead of effectively standing on a street corner with a long beard and a sign reading “The End Is Near”.

Most of us can agree with some of your sentiments on humanitarian grounds, but your sweeping indictment calls to mind the words of Edmund Burke, “I do not know the method of drawing up an indictment against an whole people.”

It’s so sickening that most of us are so uninformed and brainwashed, and that the corrupt fascist machine and it’s propaganda department brazenly masquerading as “a free press” continually drowns people in so many layers of lies, disinformation, misinformation, obfuscation and suppression of the truth that we’re defeated in arguments before they begin because we seem to be unable to break free of the untrue frames that they put the story in!

Dude (waynebro),

First of all you and others that talk about half a million or less dead Iraqis are understating it by more than half! Kucinich held a hearing of sorts, prior to ‘06 so it was almost more of a press conference than a real hearing since no chair would call it, but he had a panel consisting of the Johns Hopkins team that performed the surveys as well as Juan Cole and others in which they laid out the methodology used for their figures and showed without a shadow of a doubt that it is the most reliable and respected method known, used by the UN, the US and all governments in all similar situations and always sited and quoted by governments and press in other war zones, and that it was even more precise the second time they did a study. They concluded over a million dead long ago! Not to mention 4 million refugees.

Second of all, in the face of that, whenever someone makes an argument that starts off talking about a few thousand dead Americans and how many wounded we have and how much money we’ve blown…. well, I’m sorry but that exhibits the very attitude, the very blindness, the very lack of humanity that allows these things to continually happen in the first place! When you allow and are complicit with with mindset that American lives are worth so much more than others, when you dehumanize “our” so called enemies to the point that, even if you thought it was “only” half a million of them dead, you find it appropriate to mention that only as an afterthought to what you position as your priority concern, how many deaths and injuries are incurred by the aggressor, the instigator, the invader, the occupier…. well, sir, you, and all who think that way, which seems to be almost all of us, are really enabling these things to happen. It is shameful.

Could you imagine a local news report about a situation where a man went on a rampage in your town and he beat to death a thousand people with his bare hands and the whole news report was only concerned with the bruises and damage done to the mans hands in the course of his slaughtering a thousand people? Please don’t just laugh at the absurdity of this, I want you to actually imagine it. What do you think would happen if that really happened and they devoted ten minutes to the story and they literally talked about the guys own injuries to the perpetrating hands themselves, they interviewed him and asked how badly he was hurt, they talked to the doctors to get his prognosis, they talked about how much his medical bills would be and who would pay them and then discussed his strategy in carrying out the attack, whether it worked well, whether he was smart in doing it etc., and they didn’t even mention the victims or maybe barely mentioned them and downplayed the numbers of them? Would that newscaster still have a job the next day? Well that’s how our press has performed on Iraq (not to mention Afghanistan, the forgotten abomination) and you’re essentially going along with it.

Now back to better or worse with Saddam in power. Without the latest war a country that had 25 million people would have more than a million more citizens alive and 4 or 5 million more not being displaced refugees living in garbage. They wouldn’t have ethnic cleansing and religious and ethnic factions split apart and at war with each other that had previously lived well together for a very long time. They would have electricity, water to drink, hospitals, intact schools, a functioning society in which they could go outside their houses without constant fear and danger of death, they would have jobs, they would have gas, they would have most of their friends and family alive, which almost none of them can say now as virtually everyone has been a victim in that regard. They would have a national museum intact housing the cultural history of the beginnings of civilization.

Ok, but the CIA was about to kill him you say, that would be ok with you? Why? What had he done to us? Was he oppressing and killing his own people? Well, first of all not even the worst and most far fetched accusations against him would amount to anywhere even in the ballpark of damage we’ve done in two invasions and the years of sanctions and bombings in between in terms of numbers of murders and overall damage to society. Furthermore, whatever terrible things he actually did and whatever terrible things he’s accused of now, which goes way beyond what he was blamed for or accused of when he was “our” “friend,” you must remember that he was in our employ, using our funding, our weapons and acting either at our behest or with our approval. WE fomented the war with Iran that left a million dead Iraqis and Iranians and we funded it on both sides, Kissinger saying he hoped they would all kill each other. The original “gassing of his own people” charge during the Iran/Iraq war, well the original figure thrown around in the press in order to demonize him to soften us for invading him the first time, was 5,000 people, but the CIA’s own website, at least up until 5 or 6 years ago if it’s not still there now, said that it was actually about 200 some people and that the gas used was actually gas that the Iranians had and Iraq did not, then when it was time to make him “the next Hitler” to help justify the second war, suddenly the gassed number was 50,000, then somehow up to 300,000!!!!! The so called “wmd’s” which were chemical weapons not nuclear, well we gave/sold him all that shit and it also had a known shelf life and was known to be expired long before we used that as one of the excuses for attacking him.

The fact is that prior to our meddling, under Saddam, Iraq was probably the most advanced, relatively free and most secular Arab society, the best schools, most equality and opportunity for women, best infrastructure etc. But we have completely destroyed it all by supporting or launching 3 wars and the crippling sanctions regime, intentionally destroying the potable water system and electrical grid and on and on and on. Another fact is, that if some other country had done even a tiny fraction of what we have done there, and we had some strategic or financial interest in attacking that country, then our government and our media would use any of thousands of the very things we ourselves have done and used whichever of those things they felt most useful in order to call that country the worst of the worst, the most evil, the new Nazi’s etc., and we all would jump on the bandwagon and call for bombing them into the stone age…. in other words by our own “logic” “morals” “principals” “beliefs” and patterns of behavior, WE OURSELVES SHOULD BE BOMBED INTO THE STONE AGE!!!!

So if he was an evil dictator oppressing, abusing and killing his own people then we shouldn’t have been supporting him and calling him “our friend” eh? And considering that we have consistently supported dictators, put them in power, funded them, armed them and used them for “our” own purposes such as suppressing their own people in order to provide slave or sweatshop labor for our corporations or to supply us with resources or other nefarious purposes, and in fact we currently support and call as friends and allies such oppressive dictatorships as Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Pakistan among others, then how the fuck do we have the unmitigated and hypocritical gall to EVER use that as an excuse to go to war with anyone or even say a single fucking word daring to scold ANYONE about ANYTHING? We are a rogue nation, pure and simple. The emperor has no clothes, looks disgusting, and you can’t fucking see it! NO!, not just fucking Bush, he’s among the worst, but OUR WHOLE HISTORY!!!! WAKE THE FUCK UP AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!!!

I’m going for shitkickers too–an excellent choice!!! I hope that journalist is O.K.

rafflaw and waynebro,

This blog got hit right after I posted the last entry allowed under the cigarette entry. Of course that might be coincidence but I have to wonder. All the side bars were taken over with the same odd picture in each box and the names formerly there, erased. Fortunately, the correct names came back. No comments have been allowed since on that entry. You guys have experienced other strange things. ARGGG!

Sighhhhh. It’s war when they want to manipulate Congress and the People, but it’s not war when they have to follow the rules.

My picture postcard is now being changed to good ol’ Texas cowboy “shitkickers.”

Everytime I hear a reporter or republican look at someone who is questioning the Iraq war, snarl up their face and say “are you saying the world isn’t better off without Saddam” I want to scream.

It’s like no one seems to remember that we were ALL OVER SADDAMN right before the invasion of March 03. The CIA was on top of him and we were dropping bunker busters almost every day for a while there.

Remember those stories about how Saddam had to sleep in a different palace or house every night? Some nights he even had to move in the middle of the night! We were literally HOURS behind him!

The CIA said it was only a matter of months, maybe weeks, before we got him. Saddam couldn’t remain ANYWHERE for more than 24 hours, we were THAT close!

Yet everytime we turn around we hear from some brain dead newscaster over at Fox news “are you saying you’d rather see Saddam still in power?”.

That answer sickens me. It’s like we’re all supposed to be soooooo stupid that we can’t remember that we were about to take Saddam OUT of power, for the price of a few bunker busters (and the danger to the CIA agents who had such good intelligence going on back then that they had him on the run).

The CIA said unequivocaly that it wasn’t a matter of “IF” we get him, but “WHEN”. We had him. His reign was over. It was IN THE BAG.

So next time some dimwitted neoconservative warmonger idiot states “would you rather see Saddam back in power”, remind them that we were about to remove Saddam from power, thanks to the CIA.

But Bush couldn’t wait, so he squandered 4000 American lives (and counting), 20,000 amputees, half a million Iraqi lives, about a Trillion dollars of our own money and an UNTOLD amount of wealth in Iraqi treasure, including priceless artifacts and relics, like Jacob’s well, all because Bush wanted to look tough, and millions of Americans wanted to look tough with him.

“Senate report links Bush to detainee homicides; media yawns

The bipartisan Senate Armed Services Committee report issued on Thursday — which documents that “former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and other senior U.S. officials share much of the blame for detainee abuse at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, and Guantanamo Bay, Cuba”

The executive summary also traces the erosion of detainee treatment standards to a Feb,. 7, 2002, memorandum signed by President George W. Bush stating that the Geneva Convention did not apply to the U.S. war with al Qaeda and that Taliban detainees were not entitled to prisoner of war status or legal protections.

“The president’s order closed off application of Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions, which would have afforded minimum standards for humane treatment,” the summary said.

The policies which the Senate Armed Services Committee unanimously concludes were authorized by Bush, Rumsfeld and several other top Bush officials did not merely lead to “abuse” and humiliating treatment, but are directly — and unquestionably — responsible for numerous detainee murders. Many of those deaths caused by abusive treatment have been formally characterized as “homicides” by autopsies performed in Iraq and Afghanistan (see these chilling compilations of autopsy findings on detainees in U.S. custody, obtained by the ACLU, which reads like a classic and compelling exhibit in a war crimes trial).

While the bulk of the attention over detainee abuse has been directed to Guantanamo, the U.S., to this day, continues to imprison — with no charges — thousands of Iraqi citizens. In Iraq an Afghanistan, detainee deaths were rampant and, to this day, detainees continue to die under extremely suspicious circumstances. Just yesterday, there was yet another death of a very young Iraqi detainee whose death was attributed to quite unlikely natural causes.”

The journalist’s detainment is being protested by many.

Phil Hartman as Frank Sinatra: “Boo hoo; ya had me then ya lost me. Billy Idol…”

It seems that Muntader al-Zaidi, the Iraqi journalist who threw his shoes at President Bush is being charged for “tossing his shoes near Prime Minister Maliki. NOT for tossing them at President Bush.

Just an interesting development I thought was worth mentioning.

Too bad for cutey pie Dana. Once her looks goes what does she have? Great job experience?”

She doesn’t even have that. Remember we have her on camera performing her “job”.

Like when she didn’t know what the Cuban Missle Crisis was.

How she manages to act superior to the reporters (who actually know stuff) asking her questions is beyond me, so if there’s a job out there that requires an unmerited sense of superiority then it’s all hers. Other than that, I can’t see who’d want her for anything.

I like the postcard idea–”These Boots are Made for Walking”…. BTW, did you hear about Jeff Gannon? I read about him somewhere!

I think I’m going to look for a picture some nice studded stilettos in honor of a certain legendary someone who was said to have security clearance to the top.

JP, if you bring up the subject of sex at the white house, somebody is going to bring up the subject of Jeff Gannon. It certainly won’t be me, but somebody is bound to do just that.

Here, Mr. Commander in chief, sir, what size are THESE?

It was only a matter of time until one of our bunker busters landed on his head. Only a complete fool would waste thousands of American lives, hundreds of billions of dollars and about 10’s of thousands of wounded and amputees just to do what we were so close to doing already.

If we had just “stayed the course” then the CIA would have gotten Saddam, we’d have about a trillion dollars more in our federal budget, (to save our economy) and there’d be thousands and thousands of Americans who still had their arms, their legs and their lives. Not to mention about half a million Iraqi’s.

The invasion of Iraq was the most stupid, idiotic thing we could have ever conceived of after 911, and Bush is a fool.

Too bad for cutey pie Dana. Once her looks goes what does she have? Great job experience?

Save your breath. JP is one of those tough guys who is always willing to lay down your freedom at the foot of some tyrant ’cause we’re in “war time” damn it. I truly enjoyed his dissertation on Commanders in Chiefs throughout history, though he completely missed my point that Bush is Commander in Chief ONLY over the army & navy. Or maybe JP bought that conservative koolade that, “in wartime,” we get a dictator. Sad that soldiers fighting for this Country have no idea what they’re fighting for, but some macho types just like shooting things. Maybe that’s why they want to “go back.” I like his line that “last time he checked,” Saddam was paying suicide bombers in other mid-East countries. Too bad he missed the memo the rest of us got that Saddam had no connections to fundamentalist terrorists and considered them a threat to his regime. Ignorance is truly bliss. Let him stay “happy” in his own maniacal way, and don’t trouble him with law, facts, or humorous occurrences.

Seems someone accidentally shoved a microphone into her eye instead of her mouth.

Let’s give beloved “George” a final act of admiration by sending him a shoe in the mail… If you think the past 8 years have been less than favorable, find a shoe and send it to the president at:
The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20500

And I’m sorry, but what the heck does Bill Clinton and JFK have to do with this story?

Last time I cheacked in the history books, neither one of those presidents ever got attaked by a shoe.

LMAO!

Seems to me that the only reason why your bringing them up, is that you want to bring up something bad about past democratic admin.

To bad for you, they were NEVER hated the way Bush is hated.

And when they were in office they didn’t screw up.

When Clinotn was in office we had a Buget surpluse.

Bush on the other hand has gotten us in 10 trillion dollars in debt.

We went from being in peace, a good economy and loved by the world.

To bad economy, no peace anywhere and most of the world now hates us.

But anyways what point were you trying to make, again?

what he Heck does chruch have to do with this post?

What is your problem?

Are you just upset that Bush screwed up and is hated by all?

Or is that your upset that it isn’t just “the liberals” who hate Bush its also people outside of America too?

Or is it just that Bush will gp down in History as not only the worst President in Our nations history but, the first president ever to get attaked overseas by a shoe Just weeks before he leaves office?

Lmfaooooo!

If we want to lagh at Bush then that’s exactly what were going to do.

Its a free country right?

Or did the Bush Admin. sell our freedom of speach along with everything else they sold to China?

Look, Its not our fault that Bush was a horrible president and people around the world hate him enough to throw a show at him.

LMAO!

He’s a lame duck

He has ran this country, into the ground have killed thousands of iraq’s and Americans in a war that should have NEVER been started in the first place.

And has gotten us in the worse economic crisis sence the Great Depression.

He is a discrace!

And I along with millions of Americans, I will be Glad, relived and happy to see his sorry butt walk out of office. Once and for all.

Don’t let the door hit him were the shoe should of kicked him.

LMAO!

From WIKI:

“A commander-in-chief is the commander of a nation’s military forces or significant element of those forces. In the latter case, the force element may be defined as those forces within a particular region or those forces which are associated by function. As a practical term it refers to the military competencies that reside in a nation-state’s executive, head of state or government. Often, a given country’s commander-in-chief need not be or have been a commissioned officer or even a veteran, and it is by this legal statute that civilian control of the military is realized in states where it is constitutionally required.

The term “commander-in-chief” derives from the Latin imperator. Imperatores (commanders-in-chief) of the Roman Republic and Roman Empire possessed imperium (command) powers. In its modern usage, the term was first used by King Charles of England in 1639. A nation’s head of state usually holds the position of national commander-in-chief, even if effective executive power is held by a separate head of government. Colonial governors are also often appointed commander-in-chief of the military forces in their colonies. Examples are Commander-in-Chief Allied Forces North, or Commander-in-Chief East Atlantic.

Commanders-in-Chief is sometimes referred to as Supreme Commander, which is sometimes used as a specific term. The term is also used for military officers who hold such power and authority, not always through dictatorship, and as a subordinate (usually) to a head of state. The term is also used for officers that hold authority over individual branches or within a theatre of operations[1]

Within NATO and the European Union, the term Chief of Defence (CHOD) is usually used as a generic term for the highest military commanders of the NATO and EU member states, irrespective of their actual title.”

And as for your Mom, aren’t you thankful that liberal mentalities prevailed to allow a refugee like your mom to immigrate. Perhaps you’ve noticed the xenophobes (Lou Dobbs come to mind) who are now rationalizing that we went into Iraq to “free” those people, but who at the time refused those who helped us there to immigrate here. Well I remember very well that we went there on manufactured fears of nuclear weapons. That country’s well-being was a clever afterthought to justify an illegal war since no one in this Administration really cares about oppressed people. If so, you would be marching on Pyongyang right now.

One of the things I bet your Mom would tell you if you bothered to ask, is that oppression occurs when citizens are obsequious slaves to the will of the “Commander in Chief.” To that extent you seem to be a fine candidate.

Oh and by the way, we have no “Commander in Chief” in this Country. We call our leader a “President.” The only “Commander in Chief” I know is one who only enjoys that Constitutional role with respect to the Army & Navy, and I am a member of neither.

Talk about getting “Kicked out of office”!

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

*passes out* :0

Mespo,

I never watched Cheers but as a youngster my similar favorite was The Jackie Gleason Show with Jackie as Joe the Bartender and one of my favorite persons, the comedian and excellent singer Crazy Guggenheim (Frank Fontaine).

Frank sang the great 40s & 50s songs and my 2 favorites were ‘Love Letters in the Sand’ and ‘When I Grow Too Old to Dream’. His voice was fabulous and belied his goofy comedic act.

Set ‘em Joe!

Well we can either be the “early years” or he can be Nick, Carla’s ex.

Either that or the guy who ran the competing bar that they were always trying to outsmart. Of course,.. they never really did outsmart that guy…

Hey FFLeo, if most conservatives were like you, we wouldn’t be in the messes we’re in now. Perhaps you could start rubbing off on some of your counterparts and we’ll all meet somewhere in the middle?

At Cheers of course.

You can be Coach.

I remember Peter Ustinov saying on the Dick Cavett show that “comedy is simply a funny way of being serious.” Maybe that’s why you like this zany cast of characters overseen by our proprietor JT. He’s sort of our Sam the bartender,and we get to pass in here every now and again to see how the neighborhood feels about things. It’s a cyber-Cheers!

“Now if you can just work on your politics…!”

We’ll have to ask for your patience on that one as we’re still working on yours.

“Liberals are so far beyond us conservatives regarding senses of humor.”

Oh, I don’t know about all that,…you guys have had quite a clown act going on in the Oval Office for almost 8 years now.