Great article. Here’s my favorite part:

“Robertson ordered plaintiff’s attorney John Hemenway of Colorado Springs, Colo., to show why he hasn’t violated court rules barring frivolous and harassing cases and shouldn’t have to pay Obama’s attorney, Bob Bauer, for his time arguing that the case should be thrown out.”

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/03/05/washington/AP-Obama-Citizenship.html

Gnome,
Good catch.

Somewhere Penn & Teller are applauding. Good show!

“He made a vow while in state’s prison
That it would be my life or his’n.”

A poster at another site called the Department of Health in Hawaii and was told “that in cases of a child born overseas to American parents, under that often-cited 1982 law, they will issue a ‘certificate of foreign birth.’ The state would NOT falsify the facts to certify birth in Honolulu, as it states on Obama’s document. So if you accept that the Certification of Live Birth is valid (and I do), you have to accept that he was born in Honolulu. There was no way to get a certificate like that otherwise.” See post by “Roselani” at Dec. 15, 1:00 PM.

The poster added that “I’ve checked out the ‘evidence’ myself, at the source, and you can’t, in fact, transform a foreign birth into a local one on a state document.” Dec 15, 11:53 PM

These are at the conservative site American Thinker in the comments to an article by Randall Hoven; click on “comments” and scroll down.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/12/natural_born_pickle.html

This just confirms what I have been saying all along. The records of the Department of Health show that Obama was born in Hawaii. If those underlying records had showed otherwise, the Department would have had to issue a certificate of foreign birth showing birth in Kenya or wherever else it took place.

Such a certificate of foreign birth, issued by a state agency, might be very helpful to adopted or immigrant children and adults, since they could show the same kind of official document for drivers licenses that everyone else shows, and the issuing officers would be familiar with it.

The officials in Hawaii have certified that the Obama Certification of Live Birth (COLB) is valid and authentic. If it is revealed that the underlying records show otherwise, I suspect that they would lose their jobs and careers and face criminal charges. I seriously doubt that they would do so as long as those records exist.

So much for the urban myth that Hawaii issues fictitious birth certificates to foreigners.

First he said “I do defend the Constitutional requirement however that the President must be 35, lived here 14 years, and be born in the United States as a natural born citizen.”
March 1, 2009 at 4:21 pm

Then he said “You need two citizens as parents to be naturally born if not born in the United States.”
March 1, 2009 at 6:53 pm

Then it was “Immigration law at the time of Barack Obama’s birth (Aug 4 1961) was that a child born to only one American parent needed to live in the United States for 5 years past the age of 14 to transmit this status. S.A. Dunham was not 19 when she had Obama, she was 18. This law is the applicable law in this case.”
March 1, 2009 at 8:39 pm

“Also, Vince, read the immigration law. I’m astounded you still don’t get it. IT IS IMMIGRATION LAW –> did you read that? IMMIGRATION LAW. Go read it. You can’t transmit automatic (natural born status) to progeny in 1961 as a single parent whose father is not also American — UNLESS you have lived 5 years in the US after age 14. Clear cut. Definitive.”
March 2, 2009 at 10:58 am

As everyone can see, he first said a President had to be born in the U.S. Then he dropped back, and said two citizen parents were needed if the President was not born in the U.S. Then he said if one parent was a citizen, she had to live five years past age 14.

I have searched this out and found that there is one unstated assumption in the last two postings. There was an immigration law in effect in 1961, but it was only applicable to births outside the U.S., not to births inside the U.S., as implied in the above quotes. That law required five years of physical presence in the U.S. after age 14 by the American citizen parent of a foreign birth. So the statements about five years past age 14 apply only to births outside the country, and have no application at all to births within the United States.

There is a lot of discussion about this at the web. There are numerous emails and postings (including the one wrongly attributed to Sowell) that claim that Obama cannot be natural born, even if he was born in the U.S., because of this law or other laws similar to it. Check the Volokh Conspiracy for Law Professor Eugene Volokh’s take on this.

Shadow’s quoted postings did not mention births outside the United States, and thus implied that the rule applied even to births inside the country when only on parent was a citizen. It has taken some time to wade through this confusion.

In section 301 of the Immigration and Nationality Act of June 27, 1952 (66 Stat. 163, 235, 8 U.S. Code Section 1401 (b)), the statute provided:
Section 301. (a) The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
(1) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;
***
(7) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States, who prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than ten years, at least five of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years.

Since this is a legal site, I have inflicted the full statutory language and the full citation on all of you, whether you like it or not, and here are the links:

http://www.aca.ch/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=51&Itemid=44

Full text of 301 of 1952
http://www.scribd.com/doc/8693236/1952-Immigration-and-Nationality-Act-Title3-Chapter1

This is my effort to make some sense of the incoherent postings above.

None of this is applicable to Obama. It is purely hypothetical. He was born in Hawaii, the 50th State of the United States, and was subject to the jurisdiction of the United States at that time. He therefore was a national and citizen of the United States at birth under the laws that applied then and now.

The conspiracy theorists seem to think that his mother traveled to Kenya, gave birth there, and then jetted back to Hawaii, where she or her relatives falsely claimed the baby had been born in Honolulu. They faked a birth announcement in the local paper (even though it appears that the papers in those days took their information only from hospitals, not from individuals). But theorists have offered only speculation, and not a shred of credible evidence, for such inherently implausible activities by a pair of impoverished college students in 1961. Theorists have also claimed that a woman said she saw Barack Obama born in Kenya, but it appears that she was confused by the question and was talking through an interpreter about his father, Barack Sr.

Other times in a bar in a small farming town in Wyoming where the local KFC was the only other restaurant. I walked in alone amidst local farmers in baseball caps and overalls. All was very cool, we wound up arguing about football and baseball in a decidedly friendly way and bought each other drinks. We were all just people.

Now in truth, having seen Easy Rider, I avoided the South, Texas and Oklahoma. It might not have been as friendly in small towns. Since then though I live in the South and have traveled it. People are just people everywhere.

Rafflaw,
You’re in the ballpark as we all are. The society of the time saw us as outlaws and the identification with the Western myth was a natural outgrowth.

I may mock faux conservatives for their hypocrisy, but as a 60′s Hippie type involved with the left I also found just as many hypocrites and knaves there. In the end it can never be the politics, but the good will among people. Our media culture has emphasized debate as two intractable sides yelling at each other. Perhaps debate, as on this site, can actually be a give and take discussions that can lead to mutual growth.

As a example I remember in another comment you saying that you are for the death penalty as long as guilt is completely proven. My objection to the death penalty is based on the belief that if one innocent person dies it is invalidated. If someone, with no doubt of their identity, murders someone on camera and in front of witnesses I don’t have qualms about the guilty person being put to death. Perhaps that’s because I, as a non violent law abiding citizen, would probably do grievous harm to anyone who physically hurt my wife, kids or grand kids, despite the price I might have to pay.

We are all just people, with different cultural values to be appreciated and celebrated, but the same emotions simmer beneath the surface. This is not just feel good pablum, but a necessity if the human race is to progress. Sadly it won’t happen in our lifetimes, but we all can take small steps.

Tex Ritter’s theme for High Noon had me too.

But here’s another acronym you may already know:

GDTRFB

You and I grew up on the opposite sides of the country but music bridged many gaps.

Truth be told though, Tex Ritter singing the theme song from High Noon in 1951 as I watched the movie with my Dad had me from the jump. There’s also a vague memory of the Weavers singing Goodnight Irene on the car radio, as I laid in the back seat coming home late from a family party in Brooklyn.

“As a son of the West tell me how a long-haired(once when I had it), New-Age, hippy-type pinko Jewboy from Brooklyn counts country/western/bluegrass as the type that moves him the most.”

Did it all start with the Allman Brothers at the Fillmore East and thence expand as the Allmans joined the Grateful Dead on stage at RFK on 6/10/73 while Dicky Betts split off for a while to make “Highway Call” and Jerry Garcia continued his pedal steel guitar work into the mid 1970′s?

To be clear, last night I was offering ‘Bar Nuts’, as a ‘bar’ treat ‘on the house’, since the BHO debate apparently was not closed with Shadow’s pronouncement, ‘End of Story’ – two days ago.

‘In a nutshell’, I have nothing whatsoever to do with any self-described ‘Barr’ nuts, either!

‘Cheers!’

~from New England

You clearly don’t understand the concept of best evidence. Among other things.

My second point is that there are those who will never be satisfied, despite the evidence. That is simply an observation from our common experience. The law does not concern itself with that type of individual because a line has to be drawn somewhere. That is all the “reasonable man” doctrine means, and it is admittedly deemed arbitrary by the dissatisfied.

Third, the Galileo case is not analogous because its outcome was in fact determined in advance, at a time when scientific observation was subordinate to religious doctrine. In other words, it was not “admissible evidence,” if you will, when offered for the purpose of contradicting doctrinal truths.

Finally, your reminder that “law is not a search for truth, but for process” supports my position. We develop and refine process because we recognize the need for a structural framework in which to conduct the search. What we hope to arrive at is not the truth, but its cousins, the most probable and the most likely. That will never be sufficient for the birth certificate litigants.

Well you had me wondering until the Barr vote. Here’s a little insight into your candidate from Wiki:

“In 1999, during Clinton’s impeachment trial, Hustler publisher Larry Flynt offered money to anyone who could provide evidence that a prominent Republican had engaged in an extramarital affair. According to the American Journalism Review, investigators for Flynt said that Barr was “guilty of king-size hypocrisy”; according to a sworn affidavit by Barr’s ex-wife Gail, Bob Barr — a longtime outspoken abortion foe had acquiesced in his then-wife having an abortion in 1983 and has indeed paid for it. In accordance with his public offer, Flynt subsequently paid a sum of money to Gail Barr after she had made her sworn affidavit. Barr never publicly disputed the contents of his ex-wife’s affidavit. Investigators also reported that Barr invoked a legal privilege during his 1985 divorce proceeding, so he could refuse to answer questions on whether he’d cheated on his second wife with the woman who is now his third.”

In the early 1990s, Barr was photographed at a fundraising event licking whipped cream off of a woman.[73] According to the Washington Post “Two people who observed the act say it wasn’t exactly a bosom lick but more like a neckline lick, at the sort of event where business and civic leaders perform dares to raise money. ‘Not exactly Mr. Effusive’, says Matt Towery, the former chairman of Newt Gingrich’s political organization, who observed the brief and awkward licking. ‘You can hardly get the guy to smile’”.”

Given this conduct, I can see why the RepubliKlan made him House Manager for the Clinton impeachment. Probably the most upstanding guy they could find on their side of the aisle, or else they wanted somebody who thought like Clinton.

Either way you have earned a new moniker. I dub you “A Dupe.” Finally, lest you believe the Constitution is not a living, breathing document, I’ll have the cops burst into your room tonight to search you and your significant other for contraband birth control devices under a long forgotten 19th law, since we all know that is not prohibited by the Constitution’s “rules.” Oh that’s right, it is prohibited by a case interpreting the organic language of the document found in the 14th Amendment and in the context of the other protections. Sad you put your life on the line for something you know so little about.

No one is completely right, and cant be until SCOTUS defines Natural Born Citizen…

As far as the “Constitutional Law Professors, [Tribe and others] are concerned their opinions can be no greater than the federalists papers and those comments that are on record from those who wrote the 14th Amendment.

AS FOR THE BUDDA: The best evidence is always that which is known to exist, in this case as admitted by the Hawaii Department of Health officials is the original that is on file, which BO has yet to produce…

As for the McCain toss in,… HE IS NOT qualified for POTUS either, regardless of the Senate Resolution 511 that was sponsored by Democrats Claire, and Hillary and Obama, AND IF YOU READ THAT RESOLUTION, including that parts that were lined out, (that BO wanted but did not make it) it would appear that according to thos Senators who signed that non-binding piece of literature, that you STILL NEED TWO US PARENTS TO BE NATURAL BORN…

In any event I voted for Bob Barr, because I voted my concious, and I realize that both the dems and repub’s are playing the entire field for their own selfish purposes, and neither party gives a dammed about the country, or they would have never allowed Glass Stegall to be trashed and it was BOTH parties and the Wall Street banks jealous greed over the profits they wanted, that they thought Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were getting that cause this problem, and both the dems and the repub’s took that banker cash from the handles and next time you have a careless moment you might want to insist on term limits for the entire Congress , cause its thy who should have either DECLARED WAR, or passed on it, rather than granting any President the power that was given BUSH.

I am certainly right of center in my beliefs, AND I SERVED MY COUNTRY, but I think it was unconcionable to have used the Patriot Act to trash our constitutional rights or even worse to have allowed for any kind of torture of prisoners…that used to be the difference between us and the so called third world countries, clearly we who have tolerated this mess deseve what we get, and youwho are honest know what that is…the loss of your country as you know it.

The Constitution is not a living breathing document, its a principled set of rules, that we are to follow, and there is a way to change it if you dont like what it says, or if you want to tweak it, but that takes a specific procedure, and as long as we the people tolerate, wars without declarations from congress, and fiat money systems from private bankers, and a Secretary of State in direct violation of the clear language of that document, until we the people uphold this document, then we will surely curl up and die just as we have allowed that documents passages to be ignored.

THis sad depression we are in is not just financial, it is total, lets hope the pain of it all will wake up those who regret no standing up for what matters, and its no things!

A Patriot

Sounds groovy-I dig asparagus and soups and soy!

If you have never had the Silver Palate carrot ginger soup, give it a whirl. It’s a keeper.

I don’t know where JT is tonight, but with not further ado, this is/was my lead line…

‘Bar nuts…?’

p.s. mespo, for future reference, jujubes pair well with Prosecco or ‘champagne’, as does curry-parmesan popcorn…

http://www.tantemarie.com/recipes/horsdoeuvres/spicynuts.html

This recipe was inspired by several sweet/spicy nut recipes that I have tried over the years. This is my favorite because the combination of maple and brown sugar with the bite that comes from the ginger and cayenne makes them completely addictive.

Tante Marie’s Spicy Nuts

Ingredients
4 tablespoons butter
3 tablespoons pure maple syrup
3 tablespoons dark brown sugar
3 thin slices fresh ginger
1 teaspoon ground ginger
1/2 teaspoon ground cardamom
1 teaspoon kosher salt
1/4 teaspoon Tabasco sauce, or to taste
1/4 teaspoon Cayenne pepper
1 pound shelled pecans, almonds or walnuts

Instructions

To make the pecans, preheat the oven to 300 degrees. Line a baking sheet with foil or a Sil-Pat.

Combine the butter, syrup, brown sugar, ginger, ground ginger, cardamom, salt, Tabasco, and cayenne in a small saucepan and simmer over low heat for 2-3 minutes, stirring often until sugar is completely dissolved. Place the nuts in a large bowl and pour the glaze through a strainer into the bowl. Toss the nuts well to coat them evenly with the glaze. Spread the nuts in a single layer on the prepared baking sheet and bake 30-40 minutes, stirring at 15 minute intervals, until nuts are lightly browned and almost dry when you toss them. Slide the foil or Sil-Pat off the baking sheet and onto a rack to cool the nuts completely.

Nuts can be made ahead and stored in airtight containers at room temp. or in the freezer, for up to one month.

——————————————-
from:chow.com/recipes/14260

Total: 25 mins /Active: 5 mins/ Makes: 8 to 10 servings (5 cups)

Roasted Rosemary Walnuts

INGREDIENTS

* 5 cups walnuts
* 1/4 cup olive oil
* 1/4 cup fresh rosemary, coarsely chopped
* 4 teaspoons kosher salt
* 1 tablespoon granulated sugar
* 2 teaspoons freshly ground black pepper

INSTRUCTIONS

1. Heat the oven to 350°F and arrange a rack in the middle.
2. Place nuts on a baking sheet. Add remaining ingredients and mix with your hands to evenly coat.
3. Bake until nuts are browned and toasted, stirring occasionally, about 20 minutes. Let cool on the baking sheet, transfer to a bowl, and serve.

————————————-

from:recipezaar.com/Roasted-Rosemary-Walnuts-53121

Roasted Rosemary Walnuts
Recipe #53121 | 30 min | 15 min prep

Ingredients

* 2 1/2 tablespoons olive oil
* 2 teaspoons dried rosemary
* 3/4-1 teaspoon sea salt, to taste
* 1/2 teaspoon cayenne pepper
* 2 cups walnut halves

Directions

Pre-heat oven to 350 degrees.

Line baking sheet with foil.

Heat olive oil with rosemary, salt and cayenne, stirring until mixed.

Put nuts on foil-lined sheet, pour oil mixture over them, spreading evenly.

Roast, stirring once or twice, 10- 15 min, until fragrant.

Let cool and eat, or wrap in foil to store

I’m off to the confectioner’s store tomorrow. Any excuse is a good one for the vino. That’s a great WE article. I’m sipping some Argentine Vina Las Perdices Viognie from Rick’s Wine Shop in Alexandria I picked up last month. It’s carries the princely price tag of $12.00, but it’s super.

You know I had some fine asparagus soup today. Here’s the recipe courtesy of my wife who grabbed it off the web:

2 Tablespoons olive oil
1 bay leaf
1 1/2 cups chopped onion
1 medium green pepper, chopped
1/2 to 1 cup diced potato
5 cups chopped asparagus (set aside some of the tips)
1 teaspoon salt, or to taste
2 1/2 cups water or stock
2 cups soy milk
pinch of allspice
freshly ground black pepper to taste
splash of tamari
1 teaspoon of thyme
chopped scallions, for garnish

Sauté the onions in the soup pot, along with the bay leaf, until the onions turn translucent. Add the chopped green bell pepper, diced potato, chopped asparagus (leaving out those tips you set aside), water or stock, and salt. Bring water to a boil, then lower to a simmer and cook about 10 minutes or until the potato is tender.

Remove the bay leave, and purée small batches of the soup in a blender along with batches of the soy milk. (Or, if you have one, purée the soup right in the pot with a submersible blender. We have one of those and it’s great.) Purée until the texture is totally smooth.

Return the soup to the simmering heat and add the seasonings to taste. Throw in the the aspargus tips you set aside and cook until they just turn tender. DO NOT let the soup boil, or the soy milk will separate out and get kind of clumpy. Watch the soup and stir constantly. Lower the heat the moment you notice the soy milk starts separating. You could also steam the asparagus tips in advance.

Patty C:

I am thinking jaw breakers or salt-water taffy or maybe just biting down on a bullet! Jujubes make sense too as we while away the time listening to the crickets chirp.
—–
mespo, posted some recipes, ‘awaiting moderation’, but while I’m still thinking of it, here’s the ‘candy jar’ wine list…

http://www.winemag.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=&nm=&type=Publishing&mod=Publications%3A%3AArticle&mid=8F3A7027421841978F18BE895F87F791&tier=4&id=44E98ADB6B874457A640ADD39CDC6E74

p.s. mespo, for future reference, jujubes pair well with Prosecco or ‘champagne’, as does curry-parmesan popcorn…

http://www.tantemarie.com/recipes/horsdoeuvres/spicynuts.html

This recipe was inspired by several sweet/spicy nut recipes that I have tried over the years. This is my favorite because the combination of maple and brown sugar with the bite that comes from the ginger and cayenne makes them completely addictive.

Tante Marie’s Spicy Nuts

Ingredients
4 tablespoons butter
3 tablespoons pure maple syrup
3 tablespoons dark brown sugar
3 thin slices fresh ginger
1 teaspoon ground ginger
1/2 teaspoon ground cardamom
1 teaspoon kosher salt
1/4 teaspoon Tabasco sauce, or to taste
1/4 teaspoon Cayenne pepper
1 pound shelled pecans, almonds or walnuts

Instructions

To make the pecans, preheat the oven to 300 degrees. Line a baking sheet with foil or a Sil-Pat.

Combine the butter, syrup, brown sugar, ginger, ground ginger, cardamom, salt, Tabasco, and cayenne in a small saucepan and simmer over low heat for 2-3 minutes, stirring often until sugar is completely dissolved. Place the nuts in a large bowl and pour the glaze through a strainer into the bowl. Toss the nuts well to coat them evenly with the glaze. Spread the nuts in a single layer on the prepared baking sheet and bake 30-40 minutes, stirring at 15 minute intervals, until nuts are lightly browned and almost dry when you toss them. Slide the foil or Sil-Pat off the baking sheet and onto a rack to cool the nuts completely.

Nuts can be made ahead and stored in airtight containers at room temp. or in the freezer, for up to one month.

——————————————-

http://www.chow.com/recipes/14260

Total: 25 mins /Active: 5 mins/ Makes: 8 to 10 servings (5 cups)

Roasted Rosemary Walnuts

INGREDIENTS

* 5 cups walnuts
* 1/4 cup olive oil
* 1/4 cup fresh rosemary, coarsely chopped
* 4 teaspoons kosher salt
* 1 tablespoon granulated sugar
* 2 teaspoons freshly ground black pepper

INSTRUCTIONS

1. Heat the oven to 350°F and arrange a rack in the middle.
2. Place nuts on a baking sheet. Add remaining ingredients and mix with your hands to evenly coat.
3. Bake until nuts are browned and toasted, stirring occasionally, about 20 minutes. Let cool on the baking sheet, transfer to a bowl, and serve.

————————————-

http://www.recipezaar.com/Roasted-Rosemary-Walnuts-53121

Roasted Rosemary Walnuts
Recipe #53121 | 30 min | 15 min prep

Ingredients

* 2 1/2 tablespoons olive oil
* 2 teaspoons dried rosemary
* 3/4-1 teaspoon sea salt, to taste
* 1/2 teaspoon cayenne pepper
* 2 cups walnut halves

Directions

Pre-heat oven to 350 degrees.

Line baking sheet with foil.

Heat olive oil with rosemary, salt and cayenne, stirring until mixed.

Put nuts on foil-lined sheet, pour oil mixture over them, spreading evenly.

Roast, stirring once or twice, 10- 15 min, until fragrant.

Let cool and eat, or wrap in foil to store.

I known what you mean about being born old because it took me awhile to finally realize people found me likable so I used to hang out with the adults, or was it really that I discovered that I liked myself? What can you expect from a therapist but heavy seeming crap like that? Anyway this thread has definitely turned more pleasant, if somewhat off topic of late.

I’m 42. But I according to those knew me as a child, I was born that way. I don’t think I really had friends my age until girls became a consideration. My grandfather was a huge Hoagy and Hank, Sr. fan. Since I was his #1 fan, it rubbed off on me. I’ve seen a kinescope of Hoagy, I think it was at the Grand Old Opry, but only the one.

Vince,
Seldom Scene are simply great.

Buddha,
How old are you? Remembering Stardust. Are you old enough to have watched Hoagy on TV?

Come on! Surely “Stardust” makes up for “Heart and Soul”.

Have you heard of a singer by the name of Dawn Landes? She’s a younger bluegrass singer, but man does she have a great voice.

Buddha,

I can almost forgive Carmichael for “Heart and Soul.”

As I grew older I discovered Bill Monroe, Flatt & Scruggs, Del
McCoury, Ralph Stanley & Vassar Clements in bluegrass. In C&W it was Hank Sr., Johnny Cash, The Carters, Bob Wills, Jimmy Rodgers, Dolly etc., etc. I could listen to the Opry on NYC radio then. I of course can go on forever with my favorites. A good fiddle playing, or the twang of a pedal steel guitar raises wonderful emotions within me that no other music seems to match.

I traveled and camped extensively in the West in the 60′s and 70′s and first saw what the heavens at night really looked like camping in The Grand Tetons National Forest and watching a meteor shower on a hill outside of Rapid City, SD. The West met and exceeded my childhood expectations fostered in the movies. There is a part of me that will always be a cowboy at heart, even if I know the difference between myth and reality.

It is sad when for political reasons politicians and their sponsors try to carve up this country into competing regions and philosophy’s. Despite our different backgrounds we all share a common heritage and should glory in the differences that actually can unite us.

“What is my purpose? It has always been to show that it is possible that Mr. Obama was not born in the US. In fact, I have shown that it is more than likely. Why is it more likely?”

“Any honest man respects what I have done.”

“It is unreasonable in any sane man’s mind (political non partisan) to let the so called President get by without showing a real birth certificate that we know he has.”

“Whether he has done enough legally [to this point] has nothing to do with whether it is reasonable to assume that he may not be born in Hawaii. I think it’s reasonable to assume he was not there because
a) people can get birth certificates in Hawaii not being born there
b) He won’t show his original”

Shady,
The five of your quotes above explain why most of us see you as a troll, propagandist or fool, or any combination of same.
Everything you’ve stated is NOT fact, it is supposition on your part. When you say that “In fact, I have shown that it is more than likely,” it is no fact and you haven’t done anything of the kind. Your next misstatement is that Obama hasn’t shown his real birth certificate. That’s not a fact but a convenient lie based on the false/unproven premise that the certificate he’s shown is not his real one.

Finally, you may think it’s reasonable to assume that Obama wasn’t born in Hawaii, but not only is that also not fact, you base it on non-existent logic. Your evidence for people being able to get false birth certificates in Hawaii is based on Sun Yat Sen. He was born either November 12, 1866 or November 24 1870 and died March 12 1925. He died at a time 3.5 decades before Hawaii became a State and he was born when it was a backward (bureaucratically) Kingdom. That is your only evidence that you can get phony birth certificates in Hawaii. This is not a fact and not even is it a tangentially reasonable assumption.

You rest your other assumption on why he won’t show what you want him to show. I have answered you on that point three times and you have ignored, not refuted my answer. Just as you have either mis-characterized, misstated and/or ignored Vince’s complete demolishing of your case.

I hope for your sake that you are perceptive enough to understand the points I’ve just made, probably because you’re a paid troll or willing propagandist who cynically spouts this tripe, but I must say at this point I doubt it. Whatever your IQ, you have no sense of logic or rhetoric. I hope your folks have left you some money or good connections, because without them your only career hope is as a Limbaugh or Goebbels. If you are a liberal as you state, something I doubt, you only prove that liberals have some dumb people among them also.

Most ironically is the fact that you see yourself as flummoxing everyone with your rapier wit, where the truth is that we have all begun to either laugh at you, pity you, or both.

Thanks for the link! That’s a quality site.

Even though I love Paul Simon, I’m actually not a huge Simon and Garfunkle fan. That’s my favorite song on that Album, it’s the one that hints most strongly at the witty and clever song writer Paul Simon was going to become.

As far as Country goes, you’re talking to a longtime fan of the Tennessee Plowboy.

I never read or heard those Paul Simon lyrics before from that 1965/66 era and I just looked them up. I was listening to and playing country music then and that long-haired, New-Age, hippy-type pinko commie stuff did not play in my boots n’ saddle in-crowd clique. Neat song though. Thanks. (I must have mellowed…)

thank you.

If I could suggest a Latin site, here’s my favorite:

http://www.wheelockslatin.com/chapters/introduction/introduction.html

You task me to brush up on my Latin all the time and for that I must thank you. Would that I were as comfortable with it as you.

Damn I knew it sounded familiar. Couldn’t quite place it. Thanks.

I enjoy Latin too. It doesn’t bark at you like German, or try to seduce you like French. Latin seems the language for sturdy men in stern times. To the point but full of duty, honor, and respect for law and achievement, you can see its underpinnings in the syntax and even the verse. Since it dies eons ago, it has an almost mystical, ancient quality to it and since it serves as the backdrop for what I do and is the precursor of our legal system it is more than passing fancy for me. Good luck in you studies, and ask whenever you feel the urge. I can promise you only a genuine interest to help, but not the in depth knowledge to answer.

As to your comment about my impatience with fools, I’ll offer you the famous Latin proverb: “Aquila non capit muscam.”

If I ever say anything quotable be my guest, but that was (mostly) Paul Simon.