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	<title>Comments on: Scientology Sued Over Suicide:  Antidepressants Allegedly Locked Away in Favor of Scientology Program</title>
	<atom:link href="http://jonathanturley.org/2009/03/20/scientology-sued-over-suicide-antidepressants-allegedly-locked-away-in-favor-of-scientology-program/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2009/03/20/scientology-sued-over-suicide-antidepressants-allegedly-locked-away-in-favor-of-scientology-program/</link>
	<description>Res ipsa loquitur (&#34;The thing itself speaks&#34;)</description>
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		<title>By: Scientology Solider&#8217;s Sizzling Suicide &#124; OzSoapbox</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2009/03/20/scientology-sued-over-suicide-antidepressants-allegedly-locked-away-in-favor-of-scientology-program/#comment-77200</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Scientology Solider&#8217;s Sizzling Suicide &#124; OzSoapbox]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2009 15:41:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.org/?p=9170#comment-77200</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] forbids him from seeking out conventional treatment methods. A now infamous case in the states cited that the church took away anti-depressant medication from one of  its members. A mother has sued [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] forbids him from seeking out conventional treatment methods. A now infamous case in the states cited that the church took away anti-depressant medication from one of  its members. A mother has sued [...]</p>
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		<title>By: 7</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2009/03/20/scientology-sued-over-suicide-antidepressants-allegedly-locked-away-in-favor-of-scientology-program/#comment-44799</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[7]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Mar 2009 14:19:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.org/?p=9170#comment-44799</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This happened in Clearwater, Scientology&#039;s HQ. Even if Brennan wanted to secretly get more Lexapro after his was taken away, could he even had found a pharmacy there that stocks it?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This happened in Clearwater, Scientology&#8217;s HQ. Even if Brennan wanted to secretly get more Lexapro after his was taken away, could he even had found a pharmacy there that stocks it?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Gyges</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2009/03/20/scientology-sued-over-suicide-antidepressants-allegedly-locked-away-in-favor-of-scientology-program/#comment-44373</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gyges]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 21:22:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.org/?p=9170#comment-44373</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mike, 

 That came across; I just feel it needs to be said it explicitly.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike, </p>
<p> That came across; I just feel it needs to be said it explicitly.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Robert Wales PhD</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2009/03/20/scientology-sued-over-suicide-antidepressants-allegedly-locked-away-in-favor-of-scientology-program/#comment-44372</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert Wales PhD]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 21:21:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.org/?p=9170#comment-44372</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Where is Tom Cruise when you need him?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where is Tom Cruise when you need him?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Mike Spindell</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2009/03/20/scientology-sued-over-suicide-antidepressants-allegedly-locked-away-in-favor-of-scientology-program/#comment-44368</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Spindell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 20:46:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.org/?p=9170#comment-44368</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Gyges,
  I agree with you as I tried to make clear in my first comment.
I have personally seen psychotropic drugs work wonders on psychiatric cases in the programs I ran. Toughing it out is never a solution for people suffering, only a response by those threatened by what they see in another and/or feeling helpless to help them solve their problems. While there are many amazing psychiatrists filled with empathy and knowledge, I have worked with quite a few whose work was destructive to patients and who themselves exhibited signs of mental illness. Their actions were usually hand in hand with mis-diagnosis and prescribing
things that made the patients conditions worse.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gyges,<br />
  I agree with you as I tried to make clear in my first comment.<br />
I have personally seen psychotropic drugs work wonders on psychiatric cases in the programs I ran. Toughing it out is never a solution for people suffering, only a response by those threatened by what they see in another and/or feeling helpless to help them solve their problems. While there are many amazing psychiatrists filled with empathy and knowledge, I have worked with quite a few whose work was destructive to patients and who themselves exhibited signs of mental illness. Their actions were usually hand in hand with mis-diagnosis and prescribing<br />
things that made the patients conditions worse.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Gyges</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2009/03/20/scientology-sued-over-suicide-antidepressants-allegedly-locked-away-in-favor-of-scientology-program/#comment-44356</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gyges]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 18:35:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.org/?p=9170#comment-44356</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mike,

 I agree with you, but I think that sometimes the message can be a little too broad. A large percentage of people assume that it&#039;s all just a matter of choosing to &quot;buck up.&quot; As I&#039;m sure you know, that&#039;s just not the case,  there is a very valid role for anti-depressants and other Psychoactive drugs. 

 As someone who has several friends\relatives who genuinely need\needed those drugs, I always have to inject that into the conversation.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike,</p>
<p> I agree with you, but I think that sometimes the message can be a little too broad. A large percentage of people assume that it&#8217;s all just a matter of choosing to &#8220;buck up.&#8221; As I&#8217;m sure you know, that&#8217;s just not the case,  there is a very valid role for anti-depressants and other Psychoactive drugs. </p>
<p> As someone who has several friends\relatives who genuinely need\needed those drugs, I always have to inject that into the conversation.</p>
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		<title>By: Patty C</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2009/03/20/scientology-sued-over-suicide-antidepressants-allegedly-locked-away-in-favor-of-scientology-program/#comment-44355</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Patty C]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 18:18:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.org/?p=9170#comment-44355</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&#039;This guy is a respected, tenured Harvard Child Psychiatrist, but basically a whore for money...&#039;

-----
That&#039;s why you should be reading the Boston Globe...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;This guy is a respected, tenured Harvard Child Psychiatrist, but basically a whore for money&#8230;&#8217;</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8211;<br />
That&#8217;s why you should be reading the Boston Globe&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Spindell</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2009/03/20/scientology-sued-over-suicide-antidepressants-allegedly-locked-away-in-favor-of-scientology-program/#comment-44353</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Spindell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 17:17:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.org/?p=9170#comment-44353</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As a follow up to my earlier comments on Psychiatrists and the misapplication of psychotropic drugs read this for a jolt:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/20/us/20psych.html?th&amp;emc=th

This guy is a respected, tenured Harvard Child Psychiatrist, but basically a whore for money. People who diagnose pre-school children as ADD or Bi-Polar and then use psychotropics with them are really akin to the Nazi doctors and their infamous experiments. So as crazy as Scientology is, and it is, even the craziest groups sometimes accidentally stumble across good points.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a follow up to my earlier comments on Psychiatrists and the misapplication of psychotropic drugs read this for a jolt:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/20/us/20psych.html?th&#038;emc=th" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/20/us/20psych.html?th&#038;emc=th</a></p>
<p>This guy is a respected, tenured Harvard Child Psychiatrist, but basically a whore for money. People who diagnose pre-school children as ADD or Bi-Polar and then use psychotropics with them are really akin to the Nazi doctors and their infamous experiments. So as crazy as Scientology is, and it is, even the craziest groups sometimes accidentally stumble across good points.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Mike Spindell</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2009/03/20/scientology-sued-over-suicide-antidepressants-allegedly-locked-away-in-favor-of-scientology-program/#comment-44351</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Spindell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 17:08:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.org/?p=9170#comment-44351</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Seamus,
  Good quote, remember it well. I wish, however, you wouldn&#039;t let your deeply held religious faith act as a barrier to your understanding.

Mithra be with you eternally!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seamus,<br />
  Good quote, remember it well. I wish, however, you wouldn&#8217;t let your deeply held religious faith act as a barrier to your understanding.</p>
<p>Mithra be with you eternally!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: seamus</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2009/03/20/scientology-sued-over-suicide-antidepressants-allegedly-locked-away-in-favor-of-scientology-program/#comment-44339</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[seamus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 16:16:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.org/?p=9170#comment-44339</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Ugly buildings, politicians, and prostitutes all get respectible if they last long enough&quot; Noah Cross (fron the movie Chinatown, and I&#039;m sure it was stolen from somewhere else)


So who knows, if Scientology lasts long enough, maybe morons will emprace it in larger numbers than those embracing the Catholic Church, Islam etc. I mean, it&#039;s not as though Scientologists feel compelled to cut the tips of the son&#039;s penis&#039;s off as an offering to an all powerful God. Something like that might get them arrested or sued. It might make me think they were bat-shit crazy.

It&#039;s not asthough Scientologists claim they can raise the dead, or turn wine and waffers in to actual flesh and blood as I eat it.

They deserve atleast as mush time as the Mormoms to hoodwink a few more people into believing they had bullit proof underwear, can bring all their material wealth into the next life where they will become gods themselves and inhabit other planets.

End communication, Xenu.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Ugly buildings, politicians, and prostitutes all get respectible if they last long enough&#8221; Noah Cross (fron the movie Chinatown, and I&#8217;m sure it was stolen from somewhere else)</p>
<p>So who knows, if Scientology lasts long enough, maybe morons will emprace it in larger numbers than those embracing the Catholic Church, Islam etc. I mean, it&#8217;s not as though Scientologists feel compelled to cut the tips of the son&#8217;s penis&#8217;s off as an offering to an all powerful God. Something like that might get them arrested or sued. It might make me think they were bat-shit crazy.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not asthough Scientologists claim they can raise the dead, or turn wine and waffers in to actual flesh and blood as I eat it.</p>
<p>They deserve atleast as mush time as the Mormoms to hoodwink a few more people into believing they had bullit proof underwear, can bring all their material wealth into the next life where they will become gods themselves and inhabit other planets.</p>
<p>End communication, Xenu.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Appleton</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2009/03/20/scientology-sued-over-suicide-antidepressants-allegedly-locked-away-in-favor-of-scientology-program/#comment-44332</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Appleton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 15:34:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.org/?p=9170#comment-44332</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You make a good point, mespo.  As you can probably tell, I don&#039;t handle personal injury work.  However, I know that the church is not particularly popular in Clearwater due to its economic power.  That could be beneficial to the plaintiff.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You make a good point, mespo.  As you can probably tell, I don&#8217;t handle personal injury work.  However, I know that the church is not particularly popular in Clearwater due to its economic power.  That could be beneficial to the plaintiff.</p>
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		<title>By: mespo727272</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2009/03/20/scientology-sued-over-suicide-antidepressants-allegedly-locked-away-in-favor-of-scientology-program/#comment-44328</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mespo727272]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 15:00:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.org/?p=9170#comment-44328</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[MIke:

I would like the case better if the plaintiff&#039;s decedent was a minor instead of an adult who could make decisions for himself. It&#039;s big hurdle with most juries to overcome assumption of risk, and contributory negligence for an indirect act of negligence.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MIke:</p>
<p>I would like the case better if the plaintiff&#8217;s decedent was a minor instead of an adult who could make decisions for himself. It&#8217;s big hurdle with most juries to overcome assumption of risk, and contributory negligence for an indirect act of negligence.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Appleton</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2009/03/20/scientology-sued-over-suicide-antidepressants-allegedly-locked-away-in-favor-of-scientology-program/#comment-44324</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Appleton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 14:55:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.org/?p=9170#comment-44324</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I believe that, if properly framed, a negligence action against the Church of Scientology would survive a motion to dismiss.  The church&#039;s opposition to psychiatry and psychiatric medications is well documented.  Those who intentionally interfere with a physician-patient relationship are swimming in dangerous waters.  Even if it were established through expert  testimony that the drugs were medically unnecessary, the church should be charged with knowledge that the withdrawal from psychotropic drugs should only be accomplished under medical supervision.  No doubt there is a comparative negligence defense available in this case, but I suspect that a jury could reasonably conclude that there was a direct causal relationship between the son&#039;s death and the actions of the church.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe that, if properly framed, a negligence action against the Church of Scientology would survive a motion to dismiss.  The church&#8217;s opposition to psychiatry and psychiatric medications is well documented.  Those who intentionally interfere with a physician-patient relationship are swimming in dangerous waters.  Even if it were established through expert  testimony that the drugs were medically unnecessary, the church should be charged with knowledge that the withdrawal from psychotropic drugs should only be accomplished under medical supervision.  No doubt there is a comparative negligence defense available in this case, but I suspect that a jury could reasonably conclude that there was a direct causal relationship between the son&#8217;s death and the actions of the church.</p>
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		<title>By: rcampbell</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2009/03/20/scientology-sued-over-suicide-antidepressants-allegedly-locked-away-in-favor-of-scientology-program/#comment-44323</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rcampbell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 14:55:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.org/?p=9170#comment-44323</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Singling out and criticizing the behavior of one cult versus any other is to make a distiction without a difference.  For instance:

* The Cathoic Church has long held that if a decision has to made between saving a woman&#039;s life or that of her baby during childbirth, the woman&#039;s life will be the one sacrificed.  One can only imagine how many women&#039;s lives this has cost over the long history of that particular cult.  Has this practice ever been tested by lawsuit?  

* There have been numerous stories of Jehovah&#039;s Witness followers withholding medical treatments resulting in deaths.  Have there been lawsuits?  What outcomes?

* People have died as a result of various religious ceremonies such as exorcisms, initialtion rites, etc.  We&#039;ve seen lawsuits when this involves military and juvenile delinquent boot camps, fraternity/sorority hazing, but I don&#039;t recall how any verdicts came out on any religious-based claims.    

I would alter and broaden Mike Spindell&#039;s observation by saying that all religion is a scam, both emotional and financial.  It can also be a dangerous or even life-threatening one.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Singling out and criticizing the behavior of one cult versus any other is to make a distiction without a difference.  For instance:</p>
<p>* The Cathoic Church has long held that if a decision has to made between saving a woman&#8217;s life or that of her baby during childbirth, the woman&#8217;s life will be the one sacrificed.  One can only imagine how many women&#8217;s lives this has cost over the long history of that particular cult.  Has this practice ever been tested by lawsuit?  </p>
<p>* There have been numerous stories of Jehovah&#8217;s Witness followers withholding medical treatments resulting in deaths.  Have there been lawsuits?  What outcomes?</p>
<p>* People have died as a result of various religious ceremonies such as exorcisms, initialtion rites, etc.  We&#8217;ve seen lawsuits when this involves military and juvenile delinquent boot camps, fraternity/sorority hazing, but I don&#8217;t recall how any verdicts came out on any religious-based claims.    </p>
<p>I would alter and broaden Mike Spindell&#8217;s observation by saying that all religion is a scam, both emotional and financial.  It can also be a dangerous or even life-threatening one.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Spindell</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2009/03/20/scientology-sued-over-suicide-antidepressants-allegedly-locked-away-in-favor-of-scientology-program/#comment-44319</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Spindell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 13:52:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.org/?p=9170#comment-44319</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Scientology is a scam created by an accomplished pulp science fiction writer to take advantage of exempting churches from taxes. You know its a scam because people have to pay more and more as they advance through the levels and gain greater knowledge. L. Ron Hubbard always looked like W.C. fields to me and had as much credibility.

However, There is over prescription of psychotropic and mood altering drugs in this country that is equally disturbing. While working in the Psychiatric field I saw many instances of beneficial effects of these medications. By the same token I saw many instances where they were prescribed by disengaged Psychiatrists, with little thought to the downside and adverse reactions occurring. So in this case while the source is questionable, the questions are reasonable.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scientology is a scam created by an accomplished pulp science fiction writer to take advantage of exempting churches from taxes. You know its a scam because people have to pay more and more as they advance through the levels and gain greater knowledge. L. Ron Hubbard always looked like W.C. fields to me and had as much credibility.</p>
<p>However, There is over prescription of psychotropic and mood altering drugs in this country that is equally disturbing. While working in the Psychiatric field I saw many instances of beneficial effects of these medications. By the same token I saw many instances where they were prescribed by disengaged Psychiatrists, with little thought to the downside and adverse reactions occurring. So in this case while the source is questionable, the questions are reasonable.</p>
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		<title>By: Bron98</title>
		<link>http://jonathanturley.org/2009/03/20/scientology-sued-over-suicide-antidepressants-allegedly-locked-away-in-favor-of-scientology-program/#comment-44308</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bron98]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 12:04:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanturley.org/?p=9170#comment-44308</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[these type of cult religions are a very bad thing, we have a friend whose daughter got caught up in the Toronto Airport Church (Benny Hinn I think) and she is still a basket case.  these people prey on the vulnerable.

I hope she wins her case, although legally speaking does she even have a chance?  How can the church be blamed for what the father did and the son is 20 so dosent he have some responsibility for taking his meds?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>these type of cult religions are a very bad thing, we have a friend whose daughter got caught up in the Toronto Airport Church (Benny Hinn I think) and she is still a basket case.  these people prey on the vulnerable.</p>
<p>I hope she wins her case, although legally speaking does she even have a chance?  How can the church be blamed for what the father did and the son is 20 so dosent he have some responsibility for taking his meds?</p>
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