Spanish prosecutors reportedly will seek criminal charges against Alberto Gonzales, Federal Appeals Court Judge and former Assistant Attorney General Jay Bybee, University of California law professor and former Deputy Assistant Attorney General John Yoo, former Defense Department general counsel and current Chevron lawyer William J. Haynes II, Vice President Cheney’s former chief of staff David Addington, and former Undersecretary of Defense Douglas J. Feith. In a particularly embarrassing moment for the United States, the Audencia Nacional court in Madrid asked if or when the United States was going to investigate and said that it would not order the investigation if such an investigation is begun — yielding to the United States. This is precisely what was discussed in previously on Countdown.
The Court noted that there was clear evidence of torture — a view shared by the vast majority of experts in the field. These men will not be able to travel freely once such charges are brought due to the threat of extradition. While the scene of a former Attorney General and a sitting judges accused of war criminals is shameful for our nation, it is far more shameful that the Obama administration has forced other nations to uphold international law because it is politically inconvenient to investigate known war crimes. This places the United States in the company with such countries as Serbia in shielding accused war crimes.
Bybee is particularly frustrating for civil libertarians. Bybee’s role in the torture program was already known when he faced confirmation. Despite objections, the democrats refused to block the confirmation, given a man accused of war crimes a lifetime appointment on the federal bench to rule on hundreds of cases.
The Spanish court has a credible claim in the investigation due to the alleged torture of five Spanish citizens held at Guantánamo. Now, the Obama Administration may actually seek to obstruct the investigation while preventing any special prosecutor from seeing the evidence in a domestic investigation.
The Investigation judge, Baltasar Garzón Real, gained international attention due to his investigation of Augusto Pinochet. I previously discussed the similarity of the status of Pinochet and George Bush due to the allegations of torture and war crimes. t Judge Garzón may have to step aside in presiding in the case given his role as investigator.
For the first story, click here.
Well done. I hope someone figures that these are crimes against humanities for the benefit of profits for a few.
Isn’t that Nurenburg Defense a lot like that song Give me that Old Time Religion.
Libby has already been convicted for Just following Orders.
Nancy Grace get a whiff of this.
Is there a Spanish word for “sayonara?” As in, “sayonara war criminals?”
The Spanish have more balls than we do on this issue. This is embarassing and I’m very disappointed that the Obama administration is apparently doing nothing about it. Talk about abrogation of responsibility. Those f*ckers (Bush admin. officials) belong in jail.
This is actually very good news. The Obama administration has now been called out on the issue and will be forced to take a position. It’s about time.
Is there a Spanish word for “sayonara?”
Asta la bye bye?
My concern is that the politics between nations will trump justice.
If international jurisprudence prevails—without the Obama Administration’s full compliance—then Mr. Obama becomes a disgraced political coward complicit in war crimes.
Mike,
It’s good news period. I don’t care who enforces the ban on torture, it needs to be enforced.
I’d love for President Obama to handle this issue as well as he’s handled some others, but if we have to loose more face for people who knowingly broke US and international laws to be punished so be it.
“…the Obama Administration may actually seek to obstruct the investigation while preventing any special prosecutor from seeing the evidence in a domestic investigation.”
Mens rea?
Mike A.,
I agree. It’s put up or shut up.
Glenn Greenwald has an excellent write up on this as well. So far Obama has not only protected the past administration but as well, he is protecting people in his own administration. My question is, what are people who committed torture still doing in the employ of our govt.? These are not good people whom we need to retain. They are war criminals. This is like complaining about the economic mess inhereited from bush but hiring all the same people who caused the problem to stay on. This is just bad policy and it is against our law. Torture isn’t something that only occurred in the past if people who committed it in the present are still part of your govt. These war and financial criminals should have been fired on day one. Instead they are close advisors to Obama. It will be interesting to see how this turns out.
The Spanish have more balls than we do on this issue.
—
The Spanish have jurisdiction.
Patty,
Are you suggesting that there is no U.S. jurisdiction over war crimes committed by members of the U.S. Military and intelligence community as ordered by members the U.S. Federal government?
I’m pretty sure J.T. and others here would have figured that out in his years of calling for investigations and prosecutions of Bush Officials.
Good reply Patty C.
Glenn Greenwald is a fine writer. He should team up with Professor Turley and other constitutional lawyers to expose this issue even more than they are currently and then eventually collaborate in an ‘amicus curiae’ if that route becomes available.
http://harpers.org/archive/2009/04/hbc-90004677
from Scott Horton – not Greenwald…
…and the previous thread’s reference was also NOT to Greenwald but his link to DailyKos and a Department lawyer – which apparently remains unread by he vocal.
I realize the Spanish claim jurisdiction because some Spanish citizens were tortured. But I’m pretty sure some of our own laws were broken, as well as international treaties to which we are signatories, so to me that implies that we have the right and the duty to prosecute these crimes.
***Hint:
*** That means that, by a strange twist, the most effective thing the Obama Administration could do to protect the “Gonzales Six” would be to open its own criminal investigation…”
The U.S. has forfeited its moral standing to prosecute these criminals. Suppose that it did and one of them were acquitted. The rest of the world would justifiably, whether correctly or not, assume that the case was rigged. The U.S. kidnapped and tortured mainly foreigners, so foreigners ought to prosecute. Obama should cooperate by arresting the six defendants and extraditing them to Spain.
Patty,
That assumes that investigation is for show, or otherwise ineffectual. If however it is a well run investigation with the intention of finding and punishing the criminal party, then it’s doing our own house cleaning.
Putting Cheney in a cell in the U.S. might be protecting him from sitting in a cell in Spain, but he’s just as incarcerated.
Patty C, please try to be a little more patronizing.
To clarify:
“…that the U.S. investigation is for…”
Forgive me.
Look, I am an educated professional in two specialties
-law and medicine. I post here in my leisure and in between patient crises and my life on a farm in Maine with my So and all our ‘pets’…
Lately, I have been chastised for calling Jill’s incessant anti-Obama posts ‘trash’- meaning entirely disposable and without
any merit that she KNOWS of. In my view, she is ‘paranoid’!
And Gyges day is hardly complete without challenging me on some aspect of my long held and well studied positions and opinions.
Meso and I are original ‘turlees’, whereas these two, AND others, are not -including you, millsapian87…
Surely, you cannot believe I was addressing you, personally. You hardly ever post here.
“That assumes that investigation is for show, or otherwise ineffectual…”
I disagree. That is not even a rational assumption, in my view.
It makes no sense to stage a criminal investigation
- ‘for show’…
An excerpt from the Harper’s article–a good one, q.v.–to which Patty C. linked:
Quote:
_______________
“The best solution to this problem would plainly be for the United States to take it head-on. The issue should be examined closely by a well-regarded non-partisan prosecutor. After all the facts have been fully developed and studied and the legal issues reviewed, a decision should be reached as to whether or not charges should be brought. The public should be prepared to accept that decision, whatever it is.”
_______________
I referenced Mr. Greenwald because he is my favorite legal author next to Professor Turley.
I have to agree with Patty in re: jurisdiction. The relevant EU law clearly gives them jurisdiction over war crimes committed anywhere at any time by anyone. I hope the Spanish action forces Obama’s hand. If not? Well, there’s always the advice of Mr. Jefferson. Bush and Cheney need to go to prison. They are prima facie war criminals. If Obama was as smart as he thinks he is, he’d have realized the boost this would give to U.S. image and power abroad this would bring if they were tried and convicted by American courts instead of EU action. It would illustrate that our system is self-correcting as designed by the Founding Fathers. Given his actions and inactions since taking office though, I’m inclined to think he’s just spineless and co-opted by K Street graft as the Bush administration was albeit from different pockets. Were he not, Geithner and Summers would be unemployed. The root of the problem, just as the root of the problem that allowed Neocon PNAC scum to violate the Constitution in the first place and the inability of Congress to do ANYTHING right is lobbyists. The Right to Petition should NEVER involve money changing hands. Lobby today is graft – plain and simple. Well, the French had a system like this at one time. Ask Marie Antoinette how well that worked out.
To fix any of these issues, from war criminals to the fracturing of the economy, we must first address the graft system that has overtaken the Right to Petition. Shakespeare was a brilliant author and observational social scientist, but were he alive today, his advice would be, “First, we kill all the lobbyists.” Every problem we have as a country, from health care and other critical infrastructure collapsing to lack of oversight in various economic sectors to letting traitors walk free can be directly linked to the activities of lobbyists. You want to fix a recurring problem(s)? You remove the source of the problem. Irritants that are not removed equates to addressing the symptoms but not the disease. Right now, Obama is throwing band-aids at a problem that requires antibiotics and possibly corrective surgery. But he could show the world he is a surgeon by taking Bush and Cheney to trial.
That’s Occam’s Razor in action.
And I’m tired of the excuse, “Where will the talent come from?”
That’s just self-serving bullshit by people who don’t want to admit they are failures and need to go.
No one in government or the private sector is irreplaceable.
All,
I hope you will forgive a moment of indulgence.
Patty,
I have never gone out of my way to “challenge” you or your positions. I know you probably don’t believe that, but it’s the truth. Quite frankly, I don’t care one way or the other about you. What I do care about is having an intelligent discussion with reasonable people, I find it enjoyable. If I have something to add to a conversation I add it, regardless of who I’m agreeing with or disagreeing with. If I happen to disagree with you more than others, that’s just because I happen to disagree with you. I don’t have any sort of personal vendetta against you nor do I mean any disrespect when I venture an opinion contrary to your own. I try to be polite and open to what others have to say, I don’t always succeed in either.
There is only one person who has any right to tell me that I do or do not belong to this community, and that is Prof. Turley. We’re both guests in his house. If he wants either of us to leave he has the means of asking AND enforcing that. I think it is to his credit that he welcomes all types and just asks that we’re civil with each other. If you don’t like me being here, I don’t really care. If you don’t consider me a “true Turely” that’s entirely your prerogative. However, until the man who owns this blog asks me to leave, I’m here till I decide to stop coming.
I refuse to be bullied (that is exactly what you’re trying to do, bully Jill and myself). I’m not intimated by your education, or the length of your time reading and commenting on this blog. If you’re seeking cringing validation of your alpha status, seek elsewhere.
Buddha,
I’m delighted you agree with me on the international jurisdiction issue, but that is where we digress…
… Sorry.
Patty C, I appreciate where you’re coming from, and I certainly don’t wish to get into a flame war.
> Surely, you cannot believe I was addressing you, personally.
Well, in your first post you quoted the first sentence of MY first post, then added a rejoinder to my statement.
Your next post immediately followed mine, and you didn’t indicate to whom you were responding. One can only infer you were responding to the comment preceding your own.
‘I refuse to be bullied (that is exactly what you’re trying to do, bully Jill and myself)…’
–
Gyges, Hah…!
By your own words in response to me, here, you are full of ‘crapola’, as it were –
‘Well, in your first post you quoted the first sentence of MY first post, then added a rejoinder to my statement.’
———-
Huh???
What are you talking about???
I calls them likes I sees them. I rarely seek external validation of my analysis of causal relationships. Obama has had enough time to take action now. What action he has taken has been wrong minded and contrary to justice. When I thought Jill’s attacks were premature, I said so. But that time is over. He needs to show signs of action that aren’t driven by narrow moneyed interests but instead work for upholding our Constitutional Rights and in the interests of We the People – as in everyone. A justice system that doesn’t apply to all is “justice” in name only and deserves scorn and non-compliance in the face of bad action or inaction. Equal Protection means equal for all, not just some. This is where my praise of Judge Sullivan came from on his reaction to the Stevens trial in appointing a special prosecutor. Congress sucks. Useless money whores almost to a one. The Executive is spineless. If they weren’t they wouldn’t keep hedging on the Bush issue using the appearance of vendetta as an excuse but would instead force the issue to a trial based on fact and let the chips fall where they fall. It’s time for the Judiciary to take a swing at fixing these issues. If they fail, it’s time to replace them all.
Gyges, you, more than most, go out of your way to challenge me every step of the way on this blog.
I am the one who is disaffected…
In your words:
‘Quite frankly, I don’t care one way or the other about you. What I do care about is having an intelligent discussion with reasonable people, I find it enjoyable…’
You are not likely to enjoy any ‘repartee avec moi’
- Sorry!
Buddah, Jill is a wonk.
She is totally ‘ricidulous’, IMHO…
Obama knows what he is doing…!
PattyC:
millsapian87 is correct or it sure looks like that is what you did. Go back and check. If you really don’t remember I should think some amphetimine sulfate is in order, it does wonders for senility.
If you did not a troll is afoot, it might be Waynebro, Bartlebe, Cro Magnum or any of a host of others intent on wrecking havoc and seeing your posts go down in flames.
Warm Regards,
Waynebro, et. al.
ps we are watching you!
I don’t know what your talking about…
… Millaspaian is correct about what???
PattyC:
What have you been posting in this thread for the last day or so?
look above, are there 2 of you?
For any one who is wondering, I am a surgeon as is my SO.
We practice together AND independently…
He s a vascular surgeon and I practice ‘otherwise’ -
for purposes of non-identification, here, on the ‘turlee’ blog…
I still don’t know what you are referring to …!
No, there is no ‘moi deux’… !!!!!!!!!!
I have been openly calling the Bush administration traitors for at least 6 years of commenting on the WEB, using my own name. I have called the Obama White House to express my desire to have the prior administration prosecuted for war crimes and treason. However, as someone who I think this site knows is outspoken I have refrained from debates such as this and I’ll once again give you my reasons.
Our new President is faced with one of the most dire dilemmas seen by any President in history. The country is collapsing economically, we have two dubious wars taking place, our Constitutional protections have been trashed, our media is controlled by corporatists, our citizenry is only now awakening from a propaganda stupor, most of our wealth is controlled by a fraction of our citizenry and these people think themselves elite and will perform any kind of dastardly deeds to maintain their power. A goodly number of the President’s own party is in the pockets of this corporate elite.
This is the situation as I see it now into the third month of this new administration. Yes we need to exert pressure to provide public support for holding the Bush thugs to account,
but please spare me the drama of Obama’s supposed betrayal by not acting quickly enough.
Being an Old Fart and a 60′s radical taught me much. While I and my friends and those I falsely thought of as heroes helped to destroy the Johnson Administration, we ushered in Richard Nixon. His reign of death and destruction outshone LBJ’s by far, as did his trashing of the Constitution. Old age hasn’t made me any less radical, but it has made me smarter in the sense of seeing the excesses of my own side through the perspective of history.
The battle for human justice is age-old and ongoing. Nothing of value is accomplished unless built upon carefully and gradually. Let us do our parts by vocalizing our concerns frequently and loudly. However, let us all understand that for this process to succeed it will take time to overcome the almost impregnable forces arrayed against us.
PattyC:
someone is messing around with you. It appears that someone is posting as you. I think we may have a case of “Gas Lighting” going on here. Dont worry PattyC we will ferret out the miscreant.
Patty,
My problem is that I don’t see how a real American investigation (and one would hope prosecutions) of war crimes committed by the Bush administration would be protecting them. I realize that an effect of the investigation would be for Spain to halt their efforts. If I fix a chair so my wife doesn’t have to call in a handy man, I’m not preventing the chair from being fixed. Similarly if the current administration starts investigations into War crimes they’re not protecting Bush et al from prosecution.
The exception would be if the investigation was a fraud and the pre-arranged outcome is that nobody will be punished. I don’t view that as likely, but that is the only way I can see anyone calling an American investigation “protection.”
I’m with Buddha, the prosecutions NEED to happen, and the best course of action would be for the U.S. to do it.
I am unabashedly ashamed that I helped Nixon in as well. What is a person that does not yet have the right to vote know in the 70. I will give Nixon one thing. He did stop the draft.
The watergate shit and all the other stuff as the song goes does not bother me. I heard and we used it in campaign stuff. I was the first Democrat in my family. I stood in my convictions and got poor.
This last year I voted again anti-establishment and gave Ralphie the nod. I realized that it was throwing my vote away, but I did vote and voted my conscience.
Now that Obama is in office, do I agree with him. Not necessarily. Does he have the balls to do what he thinks shouod be done, right or wrong. Most Narcissistic people do. Will I support him in all of his decesion, maybe not. Can I do anything about it, yes, VOTE.
Obama go a mess to clean up. It is worse that any toxic environmental spill that has ever occured in my life.
So let the man do his work that he is paid for. Would I do it. NO. Will I complain, Not like I used to. Thats all.
Online Wall Street Journal has bold face lie in article concerning Obama War-Funding of Torture and other War Crimes.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123930740307806067.html
In the story, “Obama Risks Liberal Backlash on War Funding” the reporter, Greg Hitt, states that “Mr. Obama. As a senator, he voted against Iraq war funding bills.” This is a blatant lie.
Following is Obama’s War-Funding Voting Record:
Upon entering the Senate in 2005 through April 2007 Obama voted for every war-funding bill that came before him. Obama, despite his anti-war rhetoric, has cast at least 10 votes for war-funding bills. Funding a War of Aggression is a War Crime, each vote was a War Crime. Obama and co-conspirators are guilty in the deaths and maiming of hundreds of thousands of men, women and children. Some estimate as many as 1,400,000 Iraqis have died due to the US-led war. Obama approved funds which were used to buy bombs and bullets to murder and maim tens of thousands of Iraqi and Afghan children – in your name.
On 6/26/08 Obama voted for passage of H.R. 2642, the Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2008, a war funding bill. It was signed into law on June 30, 2008.
Obama has voted for at least 11 War-Funding bills for US-led Wars of Aggression. Obama is a War Criminal.
I agree with Mike S. and Gyges. It would certainly be preferable for any investigation and prosecution to be conducted by our own government. The first reason is political. There is a very powerful element in this country that will regard any investigation into the Bush administration as bordering on treason. (Look at the reaction on the right when Pres. Obama publicly acknowledged that we have been occasionally arrogant and dismissive in our dealings with the rest of the world; one would have thought that he had just agreed to return Alaska to Russia.) However, that element can be handled if the Obama administration proceeds carefully and thoroughly. Opposition tends to gradually dissolve as evidence is disclosed, particularly if the evidence is direct and powerful. Should prosecution be conducted by another country (and the identity of the country is absolutely immaterial), many Americans will be outraged because it will be perceived as a violation of our sovereignty, despite its legitimacy under international law. Prosecution of U.S. citizens by the U.S. government is politically more acceptable. The second reason is legal. With the procedural and substantive protections built into our legal system, successful prosecution of war crimes by our own government will be viewed as fair by a substantial majority of our own citizens. The third reason is idealistic, but important. By taking the lead in investigating the Bush administration, we will be telling the world that we regard war crimes committed in this country to be as reprehensible as those occurring in third world dictatorships. That will go a long way toward restoring our position of moral leadership in the world and will enable us to aggressively promote compliance with the Geneva Conventions in the future without hypocrisy.
Buena Vista, your conclusions are incorrect and your strategy is hapless. Bush and his cronies are not going to avoid responsibility for their actions by pointing to congressional votes on appropriations bills. You’d best try another tactic to protect your friends.
Barack Obama should not be president. He is a Warmonger / War Criminal, guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors.
Obama’s Votes for Troop Funding
(we believe this accounting from http://www.FactCheck.org is accurate)
Within four months of being sworn in as a U.S. senator, Obama – in lock-step with fellow Senate Democrats – began a string of votes in favor of war-funding bills.
2005: Obama voted for Senate passage (Vote 109, April 21) of an emergency supplemental appropriations bill, which passed 99 to 0. He also voted for the final House-Senate compromise version of the same legislation (Vote 117, May 10), which passed 100 to 0.
Later in 2005, additional war funds were contained in the regular Pentagon appropriations bill. Obama voted for the Senate version (Vote 254, Oct. 7), which passed 97 to 0 and also for the final compromise (Vote 366, Dec. 21), which passed 93 to 0.
2006: Obama supported another emergency supplemental appropriations bill, which included war funding and much else, voting for a cloture motion to end debate and schedule a vote (Vote 103, May 2). The measure passed 92 to 4, with four Democrats opposed for reasons other than war funding. He then voted for Senate passage (Vote 112, May 4). The bill was approved by a vote of 77 to 21, with only Republican opposed, and finally, Obama voted for the final House-Senate compromise version (Vote 117, June 15), which passed 98 to 1, with a single Republican voting against it.
Later in 2006, Obama supported the regular Pentagon appropriations bill, which included $50 billion in “contingency funding” intended for the first six months of war funding. He voted for Senate passage of that bill (Vote 239, Sept. 7), which passed 98 to 0, and also for the House-Senate compromise version (Vote 261, Sept. 29) which passed 100 to 0.
2007: Obama’s final vote for troop funding (Vote 147, April 26) was for an emergency supplemental appropriation that also included a call for withdrawal from Iraq. Obama issued a news release at the time, saying: “We must fund our troops. But we owe them something more. … With my vote today, I am saying to the President that enough is enough.” The measure passed 51 to 46 and was vetoed.
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/the_truth_on_troop_support.html
Obama, Bush and many of their administrations are War Criminals.
Most all of Congress is highly complicit too.
They all belong in the same trial.
Since Obama has been a War Criminal for years I do not trust him or the U.S. Government to do investigations and prosecutions of U.S. War Crimes. Other countries will need to follow in investigations and prosecutions. These actions will open up the War Crimes of Washington D.C. – the evil city of the world. Washington is seen to the world as the Berlin of the Hitler years of atrocities. The U.S. Government has violated the same law used to prosecute and convict the Nazis at the Nuremberg Trials. I do not advocate the death penalty but most of those Nazis were hung.
Mike S. & Patty,
Can you give an example of any indication that Obama intends to move forward? That he intends to correct the overreaching power grab for the Executive made by the Neocons? Beyond assurances “Obama knows what he’s doing” because that’s psychic prognostication, not evidentiary.
All I see every week is more stalling, back peddling, evasion and backing of Bush’s illegalities. I’d be more supportive if he’d done something, anything (and I literally mean anything of substance), that looked progressive.
He hasn’t that I’ve seen.
For one example, how about telecom immunity? I used to work in telecom and I’ll guarantee to you that they don’t give a damn about your rights, only about whether they get the next round of fat (and VERY padded) govt. contracts. He could have handled that by saying the capacity of the Echelon and Carnivore programs was legal, but that searches and legal use of products of said searches for prosecution would require judicial review by someone like a FISA court if not approval before said searches were carried out. But he didn’t. He even went beyond Bush’s stance on that as evidenced by recent TV appearances by our host. Seeing JT talk about this subject on Countdown literally made me sick to my stomach. I was eating Tums by the handful.
What about the nebulous status of Bagram? How about there have been no assurances that prisoners captured outside the war zone will not be shipped there as a way to skirt habeas corpus in a semi-legal albeit dubious manner since as a POW prison in an active theater habeas corpus does not apply to Bagram detainees?
How about his not addressing Halliburton, the palette of missing cash and their suspicious move to Dubai in a blatant attempt to flee prosecution? True, he’s issued orders to change the contracting system, but what about taking to task those who abused it like Halliburton? Nothing I can see except moving to close the barn door after the horse’s escaped. A practical move, but hardly enough to be called justice.
Inaction is a type of action.
Obama has done nothing to contract the Executive powers illegally expanded under Bush other than lip service and indeed has gone beyond Bush in exerting those powers as shown above. If you can give me an example other than Gitmo and Holder’s placations, I’ll back off, but I’m starting to get bent on this subject.
Yes, I’ll stipulate he’s walked into a real shit storm and that it’s early – maybe even too early – for harsh criticism. But he’s not giving any indication that he intends to correct and every indication he intends to carry on Bush’s criminal expansion of Executive power. Is he just that crafty that he’s waiting until their guard is down? Ehhhhh, I don’t think so. Their guard will never be down. They’re politicians which makes them paranoid by nature. If Spanish prosecution for war crimes isn’t enough motivation to tackle the elephant of Bush Co. crime in the room, then what is? When do We the People go all Howard Beale and say, “ENOUGH! I’M MAD AS HELL AND I’M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!” Six months from now? Maybe. A year from now? Tenable but not ideal. Two years? That’s more problematic. After his re-election? Yeah, right. Justice delayed is justice denied. It shouldn’t require pressure from our allies to do the right thing. We are supposed to be the good guys. And personally I don’t give a tinker’s damn if the GOP thinks it’s vendetta or not – that’s the price of backing criminals. Just as the Whigs faded from view, maybe it’s time for the GOP to fade out as well. They are providing a great disservice to traditional conservatives like our friends Bron and FFLEO. I’d want heads on a stick if Bush had been a Democrat just as much as I do now. I don’t care about partisanship. I care about justice for all, restoration of the rule of law and the Constitution.
I’d really like Obama to fix things. I really would. I’m even willing to give him a little more time to show he’s moving in the right direction. But I’m just not seeing enough or indeed any movement up to this point. I’d cut him some slack if he’d just give a sign he’s moving in the right direction. Any sign that wasn’t just talk, but actual action toward holding the obviously (hence my earlier use of the term of art prima facie) guilty accountable.
He shows a remarkable tolerance for white collar crime too. His coddling those snake-oil salesmen on Wall St. isn’t helping boost my confidence. Every manager at AIG should be unemployed sans bonus. I want to punch that smug toad Ken Lewis in the head repeatedly every time I see his snotty little smirk on TV or the Net. He strikes me as the kind of guy who used to get his butt kicked once a month in high school but got zero sympathy from the school admins as they knew he was a provocative little hammerhead that earned the beatings he got because he went out of his way to piss people off – like paying the M-L bonuses with taxpayer money. Being a douche bag has consequences. Or it should in a just world. Now why does he still have a job and Rick Wagoner is gone at GM? What does Obama do instead of cleaning house at the banks that screwed up in the first place? Fire the head of the largest manufacturing concern in the country, a producer of real wealth and jobs, not paper arbitrage garbage – fake wealth with all the stability of Monopoly money. A country is only as great as it’s physical production capacity and the only capacity we’ve been protecting is the capacity to manufacture bullshit like credit default swaps – a concept that is not only ridiculous but mathematically offensive. And I don’t want to hear about the sanctity of contracts either after what’s been done to the unions and what gets done to contracts that are modified and abrogated in courts around this country every day of the work week for being contrary to policy or on other grounds. I’m not saying Wagoner didn’t need to go, but what I am saying is let’s be fair about cleaning house. The negligence and mismanagement of the big banks like BoA far outstrips any mismanagement by Wagoner at GM so it is only fair they pay as steep or a steeper price than he did.
I see no evidence of Obama moving forward in a substantive way up to now, but much to the contrary. If he’s jogging and not running as Patty suggests, it looks to me like he’s jogging in place. It’s one thing to be subtle. It’s another thing to be ineffective.
Of course, it could just be the switch to decaf. It’s making me severely grumpy. And I do mean grumpy. Like Smaug was grumpy when the Hobbits found him. Or Dracula when Van Helsing showed up. I can’t even imagine what heroin or cocaine withdrawal is like. This is worse than quitting smoking. Much worse. Then again, I was always a light smoker (usually when out drinking and carousing) and a two plus pot a day man on the Columbian bean juice. Damn you Juan Valdez and your treacherous mule! See? I’m catching your mule aversion, Mike. I’ve even yelled at that cats.
Bad Buddha! So it could just be me being out of sorts. But if you can point to evidence that “Obama knows what he’s doing” as Patty says, I’d be glad to listen to it.
Right now? I’m liking Obama less every day. Tomorrow I may have to hit Caribou Coffee for the real deal and see if that helps improve my mood. To Hell with Doctor’s orders.
BVM,
Obama could not have been a war criminal for years as he has not been CIC for years, but merely months. Any crime going on here he’s stepped into as a clean up man, not an instigator. But it’s just like a troll to be so stupid as to not be able to read a calendar. Who ordered the invasion of a country that didn’t attack us (Iraq) and protected one that did (Saudi Arabia)?
George Bush and Dick Cheney.
BUZZZZZZZZ!
Sorry! You don’t advance to the next round.
You mean he cannot advance to the next Round? What say you, that you are not being very spiritually sensitive to the person that appears to be covered by the ADA. Oh My.
At least let him pick another category so that they can excel in their Bliss.
rofl S.O.
But point taken.
How about the category of “Misapplied Propaganda Techniques” for $100?
Buddha you need to laugh at yourself.
Voting to Fund a War of Aggression is a War Crime. Each Aye vote to fund is a War Crime. Obama over the years has voted at least 11 times to Fund Wars of Aggression.
Obama, Bush and many of their administrations are War Criminals.
Weak.
And you clearly don’t understand the definition of war crime.
Here, let me help with that . . .
USC § 2441. War crimes
(a) Offense.— Whoever, whether inside or outside the United States, commits a war crime, in any of the circumstances described in subsection (b), shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for life or any term of years, or both, and if death results to the victim, shall also be subject to the penalty of death.
(b) Circumstances.— The circumstances referred to in subsection (a) are that the person committing such war crime or the victim of such war crime is a member of the Armed Forces of the United States or a national of the United States (as defined in section 101 of the Immigration and Nationality Act).
(c) Definition.— As used in this section the term “war crime” means any conduct—
(1) defined as a grave breach in any of the international conventions signed at Geneva 12 August 1949, or any protocol to such convention to which the United States is a party;
(2) prohibited by Article 23, 25, 27, or 28 of the Annex to the Hague Convention IV, Respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land, signed 18 October 1907;
(3) which constitutes a grave breach of common Article 3 (as defined in subsection (d)) when committed in the context of and in association with an armed conflict not of an international character; or
(4) of a person who, in relation to an armed conflict and contrary to the provisions of the Protocol on Prohibitions or Restrictions on the Use of Mines, Booby-Traps and Other Devices as amended at Geneva on 3 May 1996 (Protocol II as amended on 3 May 1996), when the United States is a party to such Protocol, willfully kills or causes serious injury to civilians.
(d) Common Article 3 Violations.—
(1) Prohibited conduct.— In subsection (c)(3), the term “grave breach of common Article 3” means any conduct (such conduct constituting a grave breach of common Article 3 of the international conventions done at Geneva August 12, 1949), as follows:
(A) Torture.— The act of a person who commits, or conspires or attempts to commit, an act specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control for the purpose of obtaining information or a confession, punishment, intimidation, coercion, or any reason based on discrimination of any kind.
(B) Cruel or inhuman treatment.— The act of a person who commits, or conspires or attempts to commit, an act intended to inflict severe or serious physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions), including serious physical abuse, upon another within his custody or control.
(C) Performing biological experiments.— The act of a person who subjects, or conspires or attempts to subject, one or more persons within his custody or physical control to biological experiments without a legitimate medical or dental purpose and in so doing endangers the body or health of such person or persons.
(D) Murder.— The act of a person who intentionally kills, or conspires or attempts to kill, or kills whether intentionally or unintentionally in the course of committing any other offense under this subsection, one or more persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including those placed out of combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause.
(E) Mutilation or maiming.— The act of a person who intentionally injures, or conspires or attempts to injure, or injures whether intentionally or unintentionally in the course of committing any other offense under this subsection, one or more persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including those placed out of combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, by disfiguring the person or persons by any mutilation thereof or by permanently disabling any member, limb, or organ of his body, without any legitimate medical or dental purpose.
(F) Intentionally causing serious bodily injury.— The act of a person who intentionally causes, or conspires or attempts to cause, serious bodily injury to one or more persons, including lawful combatants, in violation of the law of war.
(G) Rape.— The act of a person who forcibly or with coercion or threat of force wrongfully invades, or conspires or attempts to invade, the body of a person by penetrating, however slightly, the anal or genital opening of the victim with any part of the body of the accused, or with any foreign object.
(H) Sexual assault or abuse.— The act of a person who forcibly or with coercion or threat of force engages, or conspires or attempts to engage, in sexual contact with one or more persons, or causes, or conspires or attempts to cause, one or more persons to engage in sexual contact.
(I) Taking hostages.— The act of a person who, having knowingly seized or detained one or more persons, threatens to kill, injure, or continue to detain such person or persons with the intent of compelling any nation, person other than the hostage, or group of persons to act or refrain from acting as an explicit or implicit condition for the safety or release of such person or persons.
(2) Definitions.— In the case of an offense under subsection (a) by reason of subsection (c)(3)—
(A) the term “severe mental pain or suffering” shall be applied for purposes of paragraphs (1)(A) and (1)(B) in accordance with the meaning given that term in section 2340 (2) of this title;
(B) the term “serious bodily injury” shall be applied for purposes of paragraph (1)(F) in accordance with the meaning given that term in section 113 (b)(2) of this title;
(C) the term “sexual contact” shall be applied for purposes of paragraph (1)(G) in accordance with the meaning given that term in section 2246 (3) of this title;
(D) the term “serious physical pain or suffering” shall be applied for purposes of paragraph (1)(B) as meaning bodily injury that involves—
(i) a substantial risk of death;
(ii) extreme physical pain;
(iii) a burn or physical disfigurement of a serious nature (other than cuts, abrasions, or bruises); or
(iv) significant loss or impairment of the function of a bodily member, organ, or mental faculty; and
(E) the term “serious mental pain or suffering” shall be applied for purposes of paragraph (1)(B) in accordance with the meaning given the term “severe mental pain or suffering” (as defined in section 2340 (2) of this title), except that—
(i) the term “serious” shall replace the term “severe” where it appears; and
(ii) as to conduct occurring after the date of the enactment of the Military Commissions Act of 2006, the term “serious and non-transitory mental harm (which need not be prolonged)” shall replace the term “prolonged mental harm” where it appears.
(3) Inapplicability of certain provisions with respect to collateral damage or incident of lawful attack.— The intent specified for the conduct stated in subparagraphs (D), (E), and (F) or paragraph (1) precludes the applicability of those subparagraphs to an offense under subsection (a) by reasons of subsection (c)(3) with respect to—
(A) collateral damage; or
(B) death, damage, or injury incident to a lawful attack.
(4) Inapplicability of taking hostages to prisoner exchange.— Paragraph (1)(I) does not apply to an offense under subsection (a) by reason of subsection (c)(3) in the case of a prisoner exchange during wartime.
(5) Definition of grave breaches.— The definitions in this subsection are intended only to define the grave breaches of common Article 3 and not the full scope of United States obligations under that Article.
_____
Obama has done none of these, while your boys in Bush Co. have violated numerous sections. Voting for funding is not a war crime. Voting is on legislation is part of a Senator’s job description even if that legislation is to fund an illegal attack on a third party. Or would you rather our troops be sent abroad, legally or not, without proper support? As far as war crimes go, implementing systematized torture and pissing on the Geneva Convention, Bush’s doing not Obama’s, clearly are war crimes. And that’s only the tip of the iceberg of Bush Co. wrong doing.
I’m laughing alright, BVM. Squarely at you.
I’m sorry, but you’ll be leaving the show now. Enjoy your parting gift, which consists entirely of this demonstration of your ignorance of subject matter and trollish nature. Here’s a hint though – if you’re attempting the tactic of guilt by false association, you shouldn’t do it with people who are not trained to argue from fact, law and logic.
I suggest playing the kid’s version of “Propaganda Weasel” before you try to run with the big dogs. You’ll only keep hurting yourself and providing much amusement to people who know better.
Obama is a War Criminal. I rest my case.
“you should do it with people who are not trained to argue from fact, law and logic.”
No, you lose your case. But self delusion seems to be your only strong point.
Buh bye.
But I am curious as to why you hate our soldiers so much that you want to attack properly funding them instead of the illegal reason they were dispatched in the first place.
Can you explain that?
And not sound like a contortionist?
No?
Didn’t think so.
Self Delusional Neophytes bog this blog down after to much grog.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123975168816518691.html
In reading this, it strikes me that someone needs to remind those twits at CIA who they work for and not capitulate to their potential hissy fit at the release of the torture memos. If they don’t like it, fire them. Even spies can be replaced. It makes your job harder you say? Too bad. You geniuses at Langley should have though about that before you started torturing for Unca Dick.
Wow! Too much work today kept me away from this important discussion. I am a big Obama fan, but I have to admit to serious frustration over the missed opportunities to reel in the lawlessness of the Bush regime. I realize that it less than 100 days into Obama’s term, but his Justice department had made some amazing blunders in keeping the fraudulent arguments of the Bush regime and in the most recent filing, they even went farther than the Bush regime in the Bagram prisoner Habeas Corpus case. There is still time for the Obama administration to correct these problems, but I agree with Buddha that I need to see some positive steps very quickly. For the Spanish court to take the steps that we should be taking is embarrassing. There is no logical reason to avoid a special prosecutor investigation into the torture issue. With the legal actions that we have seen the Obama Justice Department make, the light at the end of the tunnel is not very bright. I am still hopeful, but not stupid.
When the CIA was established in 1947, it was with the idea that the Agency would be free of influence by the executive branch and vested the ability to function independently.
In it’s entire history, all that changed with the entrance of
VICE PRESIDENT, Cheney, on the international scene, pounding his fists on the desk of CIA analyst insisting they simply were “not looking in the right place” for WMD’s in Iraq.
George Tenet should have, respectfully, shown him the door!
Too bad…
In USC § 2441 – War crimes the key word that fits Obama is conspires. I count it at 9 times in the law.
conspire – to act or work together toward the same goal
As Senator, Obama in voting at least 11 times to Fund the Wars of Aggression conspired. Obama is a conspirator, traitor and a War Criminal.
Hellooooooooo – WHAT…???
——-
In USC § 2441 – War crimes the key word that fits Obama is conspires. I count it at 9 times in the law.
conspire – to act or work together toward the same goal
As Senator, Obama in voting at least 11 times to Fund the Wars of Aggression conspired. Obama is a conspirator, traitor and a War Criminal.
Buddha:
“A country is only as great as it’s physical production capacity and the only capacity we’ve been protecting is the capacity to manufacture bullshit like credit default swaps – a concept that is not only ridiculous but mathematically offensive.”
Excellent point. Production and not consumption is the life blood of an economy. As I have said many times the kind of capitalism we now have protects the rich and punishes the poor and middle class. We need real unfettered capitalism, that will make the idle rich actually have to pay attention to what is going on or loose their fortunes. The kind that allows the poor and middle class to move upward and not be held back by taxes and by debt.
“Damn you Juan Valdez and your treacherous mule!”
LMAO!
“Obama, Bush and many of their administrations are War Criminals. Most all of Congress is highly complicit too.
They all belong in the same trial.”
Buena Vista,
Silly Wabbit. Think you have radical chops, but merely a mirror image of your Right Wing counterparts. Saw your website, which I assume is why you’re posting here, to stir up some visitation. You’re so reminiscent of some of my radical cohorts way back when. Humorless warriors with a Stalinist psyche (the man’s psychology, not his politics)whose attitude is “hipper than thou.” Your “war criminal” argument re: Obama is fallacious on the merits and I assume dishonest. Why dishonest, you may ask if your mind had an inquisitorial bent, because I assume that you are intelligent enough to know that those funding bills in context had nothing to do with support of the war but merely to support the military. They were designed as a trap by the Republicans, who then could use the issue “didn’t support the troops” in campaigning.
Before you crusade to reform our country’s governmental system and the world it might be instructive for you to understand how it really works, not how you would want it ideally to work. Rhetoric is easy reform and revolution are hard. By your writing I see that you like easy. We’re in an ongoing struggle here that has lasted thousands of years and one of the main reasons the thugs have run the show is because your type of idealist is more interested in ejaculation, than reforming humanity.
“Yes, I’ll stipulate he’s walked into a real shit storm and that it’s early – maybe even too early – for harsh criticism.”
Buddha,
You might be missing my point. I’m not asking you to like or trust the guy, nor am I asking you to hold your tongue, as if I could with any reasonable expectation of success. Let it all hang out and raise your voice loud in protest. What I am saying though and in its’ laundry list your post bolsters it, is that there are so many urgent problems and he’s been in office too little time, with a less than supportive Congress to render judgment as to his purposes. Keep attacking because that adds to the cacophony that will give him the power to act,
we must overcome the phony Beltway Centrism of the MSM, Congress and the Corporatists. Down the road we’ll see if he’s the real thing, or another egomaniacal phony.
More concerning to me is your health because I’ve come to like you. I may have missed the issue, or perhaps you’ve never gone into detail, but please take some advice re: medicine from an old hand. I’ve had 3 MI’s and now have Congestive Heart Failure, I’ve even got a Pacemaker. What has kept me alive this far is that I check out everything my Doctor’s tell me even if I trust them. My wife comes along to each visit because we’ve found that a patient hears the Doctor’s words selectively. I have and have had some of the best Doctors, but even they in the rush of their day make mistakes, it’s your job as a patient to ensure the mistakes aren’t fatal. Apply that skeptical nature of yours to your Doctors and we’ll have you around bitching here for a long, long time.
Mike
Buddha:
ditto what Mike said, you have to watch doctors like hawks, they can kill you if you dont pay attention to what they are doing. Contrary to their opinion of themselves, they are actually not that bright as a whole. There are some brilliant ones but they are few and far between and if you find one hold on to them and treat them like gold.
BVM,
If you’re going to push conspiracy . . .
The occupation of Iraq, as opposed to the first Gulf War, started on March 20, 2003 at the order of George Bush at the provocation of Dick Cheney, Halliburton and the the Secret Energy Task Force.
This order was issued by the President despite the fact that on 9/11 we were attacked by Saudi nationals operating out of Afghanistan using Saudi money to fund their operation. No Iraqi men or money have ever been linked to the 9/11 attack.
No evidence of WMDs or Saddam supporting Al Qaeda was ever found, indeed, evidence abounds that Saddam had abandoned his chemical weapons manufacturing capacity out of fear of the U.S. after the first Gulf War. In addition, it is a well known fact that Saddam was intolerant of religious based terrorists operating from within his borders as they posed a threat to him as much as any one as he ran a secular despotic state where he was the sole holder of power. He’d have taken orders from a Mullah and then shot them for giving him an order.
So to be clear, the invasion and occupation of Iraq in March of 2003 was done under false pretenses. Those false pretenses were put forth by the Bush Administration. Instead of rightfully attacking Saudi Arabia, Bush and Cheney’s long time business partners, lies and propaganda were used to justify invading a third country that had not attacked us. Conveniently, one of the biggest economic benefactors of doing this was Dick Cheney’s company Halliburton. The Bush Crime Family made out financially quite well too. There was a conspiracy alright. But Obama had nothing to do with it.
On March 20, 2003, Obama was still an Illinois Senator (NOT a U.S. Senator, a state Senator), civil rights attorney and Constitutional Law professor at the University of Chicago Law School. He had neither that access nor the power to influence decision making in the Federal government or the Bush Administration as he was not a part of the Federal government. He was not elected to U.S. Congress until November of 2004.
You cannot argue conspiracy after the fact either. Obama cannot be an accessory to conspiracy to commit treason in this instance as acts and omissions are not enough – especially when the acts, or votes, you point to were to FUND TROOPS, not start an illegal war. Keeping our troops safe by giving the the proper funding to operate is NOT the treason here. Starting an illegal war for profit against a country that did not attack us on 9/11 is the actual treason and conspiracy. In fact, Obama was quite vocal before he was elected to the U.S. Senate about invading Iraq as being a “dumb war”. ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhpKmQCCwB8 ) Obama lack both the mens rea and actus rea required to be an accessory after the fact to conspiracy to commit treason. By definition of the elements of the crime of conspiracy and accessory to conspriacy, you have failed to prove your charge.
The same cannot be said of Cheney, Bush, Halliburton and every person in attendance at Cheney’s Secret Energy Task Force Meeting.
Your weak attempts at smearing Obama by fallaciously pointing to his choice to support our troops (not a crime as you suggest but his duty as a U.S. Senator vs. the plan to and authorization of the initial illegal invasion of Iraq – two distinct and seperate actions) as a form of conspiracy fails is a stunning example of the logical fallacy known as post hoc ergo procter hoc. Correlation is not causation, Troll. Keeping our troops supplied in NOT the same as starting an illegal war, you simpleton. The same cannot be said for Bush Co., whom it is well known by now, lied about WMDs and Saddam’s support of Al Qaeda to both Congress and the American people in their lead up to the invasion. Those were the justifications that they used at the time. Even the Brits admit the intelligence on Saddam’s WMD capacity was “sexy-ed up”. Obama had nothing to do with any of these events. He was occupied elsewhere as evidenced above. To be clear, the crime and any related conspiracy was starting the war, not funding our troops.
There was a conspiracy all right. But the conspirators were Bush Co., PNAC, the Secret Energy Task Force participants and the Neocons. They committed treason which lead to war crimes authorized under the Bush Presidency and at the insistence of Dick Cheney. And every one of them deserves to be hanging from a tree by their neck right now. Food for crows.
Now, bring some better evidence of Obama being a co-conspirator to treason or shut your pie hole. You suck as a propagandist and you have all the argument skills of a bag of Skittles. On the plus side, you do give me a chance to expound upon the conspiratorial treasonous guilt of the Neocons so if you just want me to keep making the real criminals here (your employers) more visible, you keep on coming back. BTW, I wouldn’t show this thread to your bosses as evidence of your work product. It’ll get you fired.
This is an important story. One of our detainees awaiting release managed to report having been severly beaten in Gitmo. Here’s a bit of the story and the link from al jazeera:
“Guantanamo detainee claims abuse
Al-Qurani said he has been subjected to ill-treatment almost every day
An inmate in the US prison facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, has told Al Jazeera that he has been beaten while in custody and had tear gas used on him after refusing to leave his cell.
Mohammad al-Qurani, a Chadian national, said in a phone call to Al Jazeera that the alleged ill-treatment “started about 20 days” before Barack Obama became US president and “since then I’ve been subjected to it almost every day”.
“Since Obama took charge he has not shown us that anything will change,” he said.
On his second day in office, Obama ordered the closure of the prison, which has been heavily criticised by rights groups over reports of ill-treatment of detainees.
Obama also signed an order ending the harsh interrogation of prisoners – including the waterboarding technique that causes detainees to feel like they are drowning…
‘No change’
After being transferred to a different area of the prison for those awaiting release from Guantanamo Bay, al-Qurani was allowed to make phone calls and he called Sami al-Hajj, an Al Jazeera cameraman who spent six years in Guantanamo before being released last year.
Al-Hajj said that while the US did have a new administration, “there has been no change in the administration of Guantanamo”.
“The people managing the detainees there haven’t changed yet. These are the same people who were there during the Bush years and so they use the same methods,” al-Hajj said.
Describing a specific incident, which took place after change in the US administration, al-Qurani said he had refused to leave his cell because they were “not granting me my rights”, such as being able to walk around, interact with other inmates and have “normal food”.
A group of six soldiers wearing protective gear and helmets entered his cell, accompanied by one soldier carrying a camera and one with tear gas, he said.
“They had a thick rubber or plastic baton they beat me with. They emptied out about two canisters of tear gas on me,” he told Al Jazeera.
“After I stopped talking, and tears were flowing from my eyes, I could hardly see or breathe.
“They then beat me again to the ground, one of them held my head and beat it against the ground. I started screaming to his senior ‘see what he’s doing, see what he’s doing’ [but] his senior started laughing and said ‘he’s doing his job’.
“He broke one of my front teeth. Of course they didn’t film the blood, they filmed my back so it doesn’t show.”
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2009/04/2009414233431153300.html
Again, I don’t think we can avoid asking the question as to why these people have not been fired and why complaints of abuse by the attorneys for the detainees are going ignored. These rapip response teams are filled with people who are known bad actors. They do not control the president, he controls them. There are trained military police only a phone call away from being put in place by our president. There is no excuse not to put professional MPs in charge of Gitmo. Allowing vunerable people to be abused and stonewalling investigations into that abuse is not acceptable. The president has said many times he is up to the many challenges that he is facing. This is one phone call, one direction away from being resolved–get rid of the known goons and put professionals in charge.
War Criminal Usurper President Obama Wants More War-Funding
The Notorious Liar Obama wants 83.4 B more to fund the U.S. War Crimes in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan. Most all of the members of Congress are already highly complicit War Criminals in initiating, funding and occupation of these Wars of Aggression. Now Warmonger Obama seeks to murder and maim more people, make the new members of Congress into War Criminals and steal more of our money. Mass-murderer Obama is also trying to cause more soldiers to become War Criminals by sending them into these illegal wars.
The U.S. people generally don’t know what is going on due to the fascist U.S. main stream media and fascist U.S. Government telling them lies. But they are coming out of their stupor as they begin to see the many betrayals of Obama and the Congress. It is now becoming very transparent that most of Obama’s campaign promises were lies and they have looted our treasury.
Obama has been a War Criminal for years in funding US-led Wars of Aggression. He should not have been on the election ballot. He should not have been certified by Congress or sworn in as president. Legally Obama is not the president of the U.S. and can be arrested at any time for War Crimes, treason, mass fraud and a multitude of other crimes. We suspect that Obama is not even a U.S. citizen as no one has seen his long form birth certificate or his other documentation. He has had them sealed from the public.
Hopefully other countries will follow Spain and Britain in investigations and prosecutions. These actions will open up the War Crimes of Washington D.C. – the evil city of the world. Washington is seen to the world as the Berlin of the Hitler years of atrocities. The U.S. Government has violated the same law used to prosecute and convict the Nazis at the Nuremberg Trials. I do not advocate the death penalty but most of those Nazis were hung.
Please contact Congress members and all other authorities and inform them of the situation. Please forward this to other countries and their national criminal courts for investigations and prosecutions of U.S. War Crimes. We must get Obama and other murderous, treasonous fascists out of our government while we still can.
I do not trust the U.S. Government to do investigations and prosecutions of U.S. War Crimes
Mike and Bron,
Thank you most sincerely for your concern for my well-being. It means a lot to me. The caffeine related issue is actually fairly minor, if not extremely annoying, and in no way life threatening. So barring accident or catastrophic biological failure, you guys should have me around bitching quite some time. We’re a long lived clan – nary a relative that didn’t live until their eighties absent accident (even the ones with chronic illnesses). In fact, my great grand mother lived to be 94 and was sharp as a razor until 6 mos. before her death. And I do mean sharp. You not only had to get up early to pull one over on her, you needed to stay up all night. But thank you for your concern. I like you guys too.
BVM,
You’re clearly not very bright and a propagandist (else you’d be attacking Bush not Obama) so why would anyone care who you trust to investigate U.S. war crimes? Our system was DESIGNED to be self-correcting. There is no better method to investigate and prosecute war crimes than an Independent Special Prosecutor although as the Spanish are showing there is more than one method to get to the truth. Now, would you rather the truth and punishment of misdeeds committed by U.S. officials be handled by American justice mechanism – saving face and showing the world the superior nature of a self-correcting system – or would you rather the Europeans clean our house for us? They cleaned their own house after WWII. It was called the Trials at Nuremberg. It our job to fix this and we should not abrogate that responsibility simply because our allies are willing to do it for us.
And you still haven’t told us why you hate our troops so much that you attacked funding them instead of the illegal treasonous action of Bush Co. that led to their misuse in the first place.
You really need to get another job. One more suited for your skill set. If your bosses ordered you to come in HERE and act like you have? Well they’ve just thrown you to the wolves.
And I’m puzzled by how the press secretary and press core for the most part, found accusations of torture so very, very funny. Something is terribly wrong with this behavior:
(from alternet)
“Take the issue of torture and accountability for Bush’s crimes. Yesterday, Mother Jones Washington editor David Corn asked Gibbs whether the Obama administration would cooperate with the Spanish court that is bringing forward an investigation against former Bush officials for their role in making illegal torture a policy of the U.S. government. As Corn wrote later, “He had a predictable response: ‘I don’t want to get involved in hypotheticals.’ He quickly pivoted to point out that Obama has moved to prohibit torture at Gitmo and elsewhere.”
I posed a follow-up: Have you spoken to the Spanish government about this case? He seized on my use of the word “you” and, with a broad smile, said, “I have not spoken with the Spanish.” Reporters in the room laughed. I obviously did not mean him personally; the “you” had referred to the Obama administration … The point was whether the administration had been in contact with the Spanish government about the Bush Six investigation. “The Justice Department?” I asked. Gibbs, though, essentially brushed off the question: “I would send you to Justice. Like I said, I’ve not spoken” to the Spanish government.
… Often White House press secretaries say, take your query elsewhere. Yet moments later, when a reporter asked Gibbs if Obama had any reaction to the conservative groups organizing “tea parties” of protest on tax day, he replied, “I’ve never monitored them nor spoken with the Spanish about them.” People in the room laughed. And when the questioning in the room turned to the all-important subject of the Obama’s new Portuguese water dog, Gibbs continued the joke. Noting that the dog might be spotted on the White House lawn later in the day or that it might not, he added that “the dog has also not talked to the Spanish about impending torture cases.” More laughter. But I wondered, had the press secretary just made a joke about a torture investigation?”
This is an update. This is not a binding decision on Judge Garzon.
“MADRID – Spain’s attorney general on Thursday recommended against an investigating magistrate going ahead with a probe of six former US officials over allegations they gave legal cover for torture at the Guantanamo Bay prison camp in Cuba.
Candido Conde Pumpido justified the move on the grounds that six former Bush administration officials cited in the court complaint, reportedly including former US attorney general Alberto Gonzales, did not physically carry out the torture acts which allegedly took place.”
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2009/04/16-4
Judge Garzon should emphatically reject that it is only the “wet workers” who are to be held accountable. The authors of the policy are the most culpable and I do not see how this recommendation fits into the framework of our own and international law. In fact, I believe it is an offense against the law to ignore those who put illegal policies in place. This is probably the result of the US making threats against Spain should they dare to proceed.
“This is probably the result of the US making threats against Spain should they dare to proceed.”
That’s exactly what it is. And I’m telling Spain right now that as an American citizen that I am BEGGING for them to move forward with prosecutions.
As I understand Judge Garzon has the final say. The prosecutors (I believe their AG too) opposed him on Pinochet but he went ahead anyway. I want Garzon to take it forward. He appears to be a real man of justice.
Spain’s UN email address: spain@un.int
I couldn’t find the e-mail address but here is phone and fax: I do think we should let Spain know not to cave.
Permanent Mission of Spain to the United Nations
809 United Nations Plaza, 6th Floor
New York, N.Y. 10017 USA
Telephone: 212-661-1050
Fax: 212-949-7247
geneva_mission
Mission permanente de l’Espagne auprès de l’Office des Nations Unies à Genève
Avenue Blanc 53, 1202 Genève
Case postale 201, 1211 Genève 20 Suisse
Téléphone : 731 22 30 – 732 99 30
Télex : 412 776 mpeg ch
Télécopieur : 731 53 70
mission web address Spain Mission to the UN
Excerpt on Doug Feith’s torture charges from;
“Dares Obama to Enforce the Law” By David Swanson
“But all of this is really the least of Feith’s worries, for there is a crime worse than torture, and the evidence that he engaged in that worse crime is overwhelming. I refer, of course, to the crime of aggressive war. In fact, when the Washington Post published Feith’s defense of a memo he had written proposing that the United States aggressively attack “a non-Al Qaeda target like Iraq,” Feith’s defense seemed oblivious to the crime involved and did not even attempt to suggest that he had not urged a war of aggression.”
Jill,
Spain’s UN email address: spain@un.int
Excerpt from:
“Why People Must Stop Bush’s “Preemptive” War of Aggression” by Carl Messineo and Mara Verheyden-Hilliard
“The very issuance of the Bush doctrine of preemptive warfare and also the threat to wage war against Iraq are, each, a violation of international law as a crime against peace, which is defined in the Nuremberg Charter as the “Planning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances.”
We need to have these Bush et al crimes brought to light and justice but our biggest threats are the War Criminals in the White House and Washington D.C. — Warmonger Obama and all his co-conspirators.