“Despite these numbers, four years since the first known death in U.S. custody, only 12 detainee deaths have resulted in punishment of any kind for any U.S. official. Of the 34 homicide cases so far identified by the military, investigators recommended criminal charges in fewer than two thirds, and charges were actually brought (based on decisions made by command) in less than half. While the CIA has been implicated in several deaths, not one CIA agent has faced a criminal charge. Crucially, among the worst cases in this list – those of detainees tortured to death – only half have resulted in punishment; the steepest sentence for anyone involved in a torture-related death: five months in jail.”

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/

Are we not, in theory, supposed to be “a government of the people, by the people and for the people”?

Refer to “Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists”

Outlaw nonconsensual human experiments now
By Cheryl Welsh | 16 June 2009

http://www.thebulletin.org/web-edition/op-eds/outlaw-nonconsensual-human-experiments-now

If nonconsensual human experiments are, in fact, taking place, should they not be exposed and stopped? Or are we going to let them continue and pretend that we really believe in the rule of law and the Constitution.

>http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/06/us/politics/06gitmo.html?scp=1&sq=U.S.%20Could%20Let%20Some%20Detainees%20Plead%20Guilty&st=cse
‘ U.S. May Permit 9/11 Guilty Pleas in Capital Cases ‘
>[http://tinyurl.com/mn4a9o ]

This past week’s Egypt/Germany/France tour and speeches by our President are laudable and hopeful. But what about this ‘detainees as martyrs’ news alert released Friday? Seriously, what do you make of this? How could the administration — fresh from a statesmanship high point to
tout justice around the world — very quietly announcing the following?

Odd that this news appeared late Friday night, as in ‘out with the trash’ in news parlance, while the colorful weekend news video spun around the French DDay-related memorials and some discussion of his notable Egypt and Germany speeches. Further, there has been no MSM news or even progressive blog discussions on this yet. Per the article, there is a legislative component to this, but even CQ’s morning feed had nothing, either; perhaps this afternoon’s feed may.

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=7778310&page=1

“I’m a normal man,” said Boumediene, who at the time of his arrest worked for the Red Crescent, providing help to orphans and others in need. “I’m not a terrorist.”

{Quote: On January 17, 2002, Boumediene’s hands and feet were placed in shackles, and he was put on a military plane en route to Guantanamo Bay. It was a time of high anxiety, and the Bush administration was taking no chances.

Two weeks later, in his State of the Union address, President Bush touted the arrests in Bosnia to show early progress in the war on terror.

“Our soldiers, working with the Bosnian government, seized terrorists who were plotting to bomb our embassy,” Bush said in his address. To this day, officials of the Bush administration have provided no credible evidence to back up that accusation. End Quote}

you did a stupid thing? Say it isnt so!

Were you invisible at the time?

I think that the last sentence could just as easily be “no matter how much kids know about sex, teenagers still do really stupid things.” I know I did.

I must admit that I’m not a typical father of girls in that basically I was not interested in their sex lives, or protecting their virginity. My wife handled the “birds and bees” part of that since we thought that would be more comfortable for them. I’ve had training in sex therapy so I was capable of it, but my kids would have found it creepy to talk to me about sex. However, they were aware of my attitudes regarding abstinence, which is that the whole idea is silly.

The best argument to me for the pill is that it prevents unwanted pregnancy and that is necessary because no matter how much kids know about sex, accidents happen.

can you put on your theraputic hat for a moment? I have a question.

How do hormones effect teenage girls relative to behavior and do birth control pills even out or negate hormonal imbalance in teenage girls?

pro and con?

“We have a federal govt. to take back. We must get moving.”

Jill,
Here’s the problem. I’m as much a supporter of civil liberties and a just society as you are. Yet I think your first statement is baloney, is based on your biased reading of the situation and that the President has been in office for too short a time to make the judgments you make. About half the supporters of civil liberties on this site agree with me, perhaps the other 50% agrees with you.

Given that division how are we going to organize “to take back the federal government?” This reminds me so much of Movement politics back in the 60′s. There were always people pleading for us to organize and yet those same people continued to disparage and insult the intelligence of those they need to organize. The war continued and civil rights faltered.

Perhaps you might convince me to join your cause if you would have the courtesy to reply to the questions raised by Slartibartfast in his thoughtful comments addressed to you.
Purity of though is a great thing, but it goes nowhere politically.

I want to affirm everything you said above but I think something else is important to remember. If the Constitution gets shredded it will not be just the work of a small group in the right wing of our nation. The left wing remains far too silent in opposition to anti-Constitutional arguments/policies made by this govt. In fact, the left wing eagerly supports some of these things.

I never believed civil liberties divide along the right wing, left wing axis. Many people of principle on the right are some of our stongest voices for the rule of law. The left has acquiesced to authoritarianism many, many times throughout history and across cultures. It appears to me to be doing so now. I find left wing acquiescence as dangerous as right wing disregard for the rule of law. I think we as citizens, must pay attention to what our govt. is actually engaged in, not caring which party is doing what, or which person may be doing which act. It is the acts, and the acts alone, that need to be watched, and when they become antithetical to the rule of law, these acts need to be oppposed. The left wing needs to remove the log from our own eyes and the one in the right wing as well.

In this instance, it is not the substance of the report that is troubling, but the fact that we have permitted our government to join the ranks of outlaw nations. There are far too many people like mary who are prepared to abandon the founding ideals of this country in a benighted belief that evil is the best weapon against evil. They have forgotten the historical and philosophical underpinnings of the Constitution and have become fearful and timid in the defense of our freedoms.

Unless our government begins to take the necessary actions to restore the rule of law in our own conduct, the criticism will only become louder. The good will accompanying the election of Pres. Obama has a limited shelf life. If we lose our remaining moral authority in the world, our ability to influence events beyond our own borders may be irretrievably lost.

Lesson–powerful people will take as much power as they can until someone stands up to them. This includes Obama. He has a clear and extremely disturbing pattern of amassing power and doing so under cover of secrecy. He also uses an excellent PR campaign to fool people into thinking he is doing the opposite of what he is actually doing. This pattern is clear despite his best efforts to obscure it.

We have a federal govt. to take back. We must get moving. Free societies have gone down when the form of lawfulness is used to enact laws that are actually anti-Constitutional. I don’t think we should believe America is any different than the many other countries who suffered the same fate. When Bush did this it was wrong. Now that Obama is doing it. it is wrong. People used to fight back when bush did it. Time to fight back again.

“Obama wants Congress to change FOIA by retroactively narrowing its disclosure requirements, prevent a legal ruling by the courts, and vest himself with brand new secrecy powers under the law which, just as a factual matter, not even George Bush sought for himself.

The White House is actively supporting a new bill jointly sponsored by Sens. Lindsey Graham and Joe Lieberman — called The Detainee Photographic Records Protection Act of 2009 — that literally has no purpose other than to allow the government to suppress any “photograph taken between September 11, 2001 and January 22, 2009 relating to the treatment of individuals engaged, captured, or detained after September 11, 2001, by the Armed Forces of the United States in operations outside of the United States.” As long as the Defense Secretary certifies — with no review possible — that disclosure would “endanger” American citizens or our troops, then the photographs can be suppressed even if FOIA requires disclosure. The certification lasts 3 years and can be renewed indefinitely. The Senate passed the bill as an amendment last week.”

It’s okay in my case. I’m more like Groucho had a love child with Carlin and Siddhartha with a dash of Alien Love Juice that was blessed by Bill Hicks. I’m perfectly content to let Mike Be Their Leader (as is Homer’s glorious notation that “Moe is their leader.”) and mespo does the Walter Brennan Crazy Old Prospector Dance better than most. In short, old lone eagle didn’t stand a chance.

I’d like to say I really like the clown car idea. You can fit a lot of Neocon trolls into one vehicle – very fuel efficient GM so pay attention. Just be sure to lock lone eagle in the trunk for transport so he’ll be comfortable in his splendid isolation.

Three stooges of the turley blog:

Spindell; Anonymously; Rcampbell; and [but]sic we must not forget their sidekick tag along Mespo.
******************************************

What a wonderful accomplishment. lol But I fear you left out Buddha, Jill, FFLEO, rafflaw and many other deserving souls. But I realize that in your world everyone is but a sole, your purpose for walking over them.

May 30, 2009 | Retired Army Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba denied reports that he has seen the prisoner-abuse photos that President Obama is fighting to keep secret, in an exclusive interview with Salon Friday night.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2009/05/30/taguba/

JILL, YOU REALLY HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO STOP POSTING LIES but since you are a liberal lies are the only thing you have left.

”

THree stooges of the turley blog:

Spindell

Anonymously

Rcampbell

but we must not forget their sidekick tag along Mespo”

*******************

I can’t think of any better companions, and well I do like Gabby Hayes and Walter Brennan. After all, what’s a hero without a sidekick? You, on the other hand, seem to manage quite consistently without a friend in the world. Float on oh island unto yourself.

“The Telegraph of London broke the news — because the U.S. press is in a drugged stupor – — that the photos President Barack Obama is refusing to release of detainee abuse depict, among other sexual tortures, an American soldier raping a female detainee and a male translator raping a male prisoner.

The paper claims the photos also show anal rape of prisoners with foreign objects such as wires and lightsticks. Retired Army Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba calls the images “horrific” and “indecent” (but absurdly agrees that Obama should not release them — proving once again that the definition of hypocrisy is the assertion that the truth is in poor taste).

Predictably, a few hours later, the Pentagon issues a formal denial.

It is very likely that the Pentagon lying. This is probably exactly what the photos show, because it happened. Precisely these exact sex crimes — these exact images and these very objects – — are familiar and well-documented to those of us who follow closely rights organizations reports of what has already been confirmed.

As I wrote last year in my piece on sex crimes against detainees, “Sex Crimes in the White House,” highly perverse, systematic sexual torture and sexual humiliation was, original documents reveal, directed from the top:

* President George W. Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice were present in meetings where sexual humiliation was discussed as policy.
* The Defense Authorization Act of 2007 was written specifically to allow certain kinds of sexual abuse, such as forced nakedness, which is illegal and understood by domestic and international law to be a form of sexual assault.
* Rumsfeld is in print and on the record consulting with subordinates about the policy and practice of sexual humiliation, in a collection of documents obtained by the ACLU by a Freedom of Information Act filing compiled in Jameel Jaffer’s important book The Torture Administration…”

http://www.alternet.org/world/140357/why_the_pentagon_is_probably_lying_about_its_supressed_sodomy_and_rape_photos/

Spindell

Anonymously

Rcampbell

but we must not forget their sidekick tag along Mespo

Can you bed used in more than one way including as a lubricant?

Think? If you do, you sir, will never amount to nothing, I am every thinking you’ll ever need. So you just go on, back to that kitchen and I call ya when I need something. Shoes, what you need shoes for, ya ain’t going no where. I tell you something else if I ever catch you trying to read and educate yourself, I’ll tan ya ass. Thats for them people that need it and what you gonna be doing ya don’t need none that book learnen. Its just wasted on ya, I tell ya.

so so as I say and pester them turley folks.

***********
It looks like single payer is not being given serious consideration in the Senate so this blog is probably stuck with him for awhile. Anybody know where I can get one of those cool new keyboards that only types caps? Having to change case is so distracting; I, like GMSucks and Mary, also hate to think while I post.

THE CORRUPT ILLEGITIMATE UNELECTED UNITED NATIONS RUN BY CRONIES OF THE THIRD WORLD THUGS & FULL OF THIEVES LIKE KOFFI ANNAN AND HIS SON, TELLING THE UNITED STATES WE ARE SOOO BAD!

UNBELIEVABLE, BUT ONLY AT A LIBERAL BLOG WOULD WE SEE THE UNITED NATIONS HELD UP AS SOME KIND OF WORTHY INSTITUTION!
**********************************************

Humm, Think about Wilson and the League of Nations. Wilson was a good president but then you had Coolidge and then Hoover that nearly wiped out like Bush the financial markets. What ya think.

Only 18 percent say the government will do a good job of running GM and it would be interesting to know how many of those 18 percent are union members.

I vote for the Clown Car.

Let’s get that circus van to take him.

“THE CORRUPT ILLEGITIMATE UNELECTED UNITED NATIONS RUN BY CRONIES OF THE THIRD WORLD THUGS & FULL OF THIEVES LIKE KOFFI ANNAN AND HIS SON, TELLING THE UNITED STATES WE ARE SOOO BAD!

UNBELIEVABLE, BUT ONLY AT A LIBERAL BLOG WOULD WE SEE THE UNITED NATIONS HELD UP AS SOME KIND OF WORTHY INSTITUTION!

THE CORRUPT ILLEGITIMATE UNELECTED UNITED NATIONS RUN BY CRONIES OF THE THIRD WORLD THUGS & FULL OF THIEVES LIKE KOFFI ANNAN AND HIS SON, TELLING THE UNITED STATES WE ARE SOOO BAD!

UNBELIEVABLE, BUT ONLY AT A LIBERAL BLOG WOULD WE SEE THE UNITED NATIONS HELD UP AS SOME KIND OF WORTHY INSTITUTION!”

*****************
You know GM, irrational repetition and unwarranted shouting are key signs of mental illness. When single payer comes, I’ll drive you to the psychiatrist, ok?

UNBELIEVABLE, BUT ONLY AT A LIBERAL BLOG WOULD WE SEE THE UNITED NATIONS HELD UP AS SOME KIND OF WORTHY INSTITUTION!

THE CORRUPT ILLEGITIMATE UNELECTED UNITED NATIONS RUN BY CRONIES OF THE THIRD WORLD THUGS & FULL OF THIEVES LIKE KOFFI ANNAN AND HIS SON, TELLING THE UNITED STATES WE ARE SOOO BAD!

UNBELIEVABLE, BUT ONLY AT A LIBERAL BLOG WOULD WE SEE THE UNITED NATIONS HELD UP AS SOME KIND OF WORTHY INSTITUTION!

“As of Saturday, May 30, DOJ has completed a high level review of the state secrets defense in this cae.

It just filed with the court. It is continuing to maintain the defense.”

Yes, FFN, this certainly is the wrong direction to go in. Thanks for the link.

To BVM:

Please clarify your position. In addition to all the war criminals you believe should be prosecuted, do you believe Cheney and Bush should be prosecuted as well?

Going the wrong way on all fronts, it appears.

There is one way to sort out guilt and innocence–an independent criminal investigation. An investigation should be started immediately and should look at everyone involved. That such an investigation has not been started needs to be remedied immediately.

http://www.fpif.org/fpiftxt/5492

I am all for a complete investigations into war crimes. Let’s start at the top, those who authorized torture and concocted evidence to present to the public and congress to gain support for what is in fact, an illegal war. That would be bush and cheney. Let the chips fall where they may.

Trying to evade and distract on the issue will not make it go away.

I didn’t vote for War-Funding and the above links will be remembered by the mothers and other loved ones of the murdered and maimed in the illegal Wars.

Those who voted ‘Aye’ on War-Funding in Congress Killed and Maimed Our Troops and Funded Torture!

Here are 2 links on Votes by War Criminals in Congress who voted ‘Aye’ on just 1 major War- Funding bill – H.R. 2642

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2008-432

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=2&vote=00162

These and All War-Funding Votes in Congress Killed Out Troops and Funded Torture!

UNBELIEVABLE, BUT ONLY AT A LIBERAL BLOG WOULD WE SEE THE UNITED NATIONS HELD UP AS SOME KIND OF WORTHY INSTITUTION!

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2008-432

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&sess ion=2&vote=00162

Those who Voted for War-Funding bills in Congress Killed Our Troops and Funded Torture!

Those in Congress who voted to Fund the War, Killed Our Troops.