“New report contradicts central Obama claim for preventive detention”

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/

Again proving that he is not only bigoted but also a deceitful liar, with a fool’s competence, Larry, forgets to react to the body of that quote from me:

“GWH Bush consistently back up Saudi positions and made his money in deals with them. He currently is involved in business with them through the Carlyle Group. He watched 9/11 with Osama Bin Laden’s brother. His sons are all in business with the Saudi’s and GW Bush’s two failed businesses were funded by the Saudi’s, who absorbed his losses.”

A father doesn’t a son make, as in Rahm Emmanuel. Four generations in business with rich, anti-Jewish people does a family preference make and I believe the next generation of Bush’s is also being supported by the Saudi’s.

Larry, you should really give it up you are so easy to debunk that not only does it take little time, but gives me pleasure.
You are not competent enough to convince anyone about your cause except for maybe Buena Vista Mall. After all though, he
is as inept as you.

But Mike, that is the FATHER youre talking about——what does that have to do with the SON????? HMMMMMMMM???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

You are of course a racist, but a cowardly one because you won’t openly admit it.

“Yet, you seem to find significance in Bush’s family tree—correct? Why so hypocritical?”

The Bush family since Prescott Bush has also been involved in ant-Israel, anti-Jewish issues, because they are intimately entwined with the Saud Family and Saudi Arabia in particular.
GWH Bush consistently back up Saudi positions and made his money in deals with them. He currently is involved in business with them through the Carlyle Group. He watched 9/11 with Osama Bin Laden’s brother. His sons are all in business with the Saudi’s and GW Bush’s two failed businesses were funded by the Saudi’s, who absorbed his losses. You are too caught up in your own mis-suppositions about the world to actually know anything about which you speak, which makes you that most dangerous of humans: A stupid person who thinks he’s smart.

“So, you like Nazi’s now Mike? Hey everyone—Mike LOVES Nazi’s!!!!”

So since you didn’t deny it I guess I was right about you being a Left Wing Stalinist. Stalin by the way, since your historical knowledge is spotty, hated Jews also and killed about as many people as Hitler did. He was as psychotic as Hitler, only on the Left Wing, rather than Right Wing. Do come back when you know a little more about history, but given your overwhelming prejudice I don’t think learning is really possible for you.

“Your dislike for Nazi’s only means that you are a Left Wing proto Stalinist, rather than a Right Wing Fascist.”

So, you like Nazi’s now Mike? Hey everyone—Mike LOVES Nazi’s!!!!

So now we know you’re a racist as well as being anti-Jewish. Only a racist would make a statement like that. As for Jim Marrs I’ve been a fan of his since 1972 when he wrote: “Crossfire: The Plot That Killed Kennedy,” somehow he never impressed me as being anti-Jewish, or anti-Black as you are. Also I was perhaps the first on this blog to mention Prescott Bush and his Nazi dealings. This was first written about by John Loftus in his book “The Secret War Against the Jews,” but that doesn’t seem to be the kind of book you’d be into.

“And by the way, I was telling YOU…MIKE…to get out of this country…not your nationality. You decided to exploit your nationality…not me.”

Your remark in context meant to leave the US and go to Israel. You know that but you lack the courage or the honesty to say that. Your dislike for Nazi’s only means that you are a Left Wing proto Stalinist, rather than a Right Wing Fascist. In the end its’ the same thing, intolerance for any viewpoint you disagree with. What you really exhibit is a totalitarian personality and so the whatever there is that is positive in you socio/political beliefs is more than canceled out by your inability to think dialectically.

And by the way, I was telling YOU…MIKE…to get out of this country…not your nationality. You decided to exploit your nationality…not me.

Larry,
Rahm Emmanuel’s father isn’t a public figure either, but that didn’t stop you from using him to attack his son. That was the point Larry but you are really to dim to get it.

“I am not against the existence of Israel or Jews.”

You really are gutless aren’t you? You know damn well that you are against the existence of Israel, but you don’t have the guts to at least be honest about it. Your opposition is implicit in your word choice and your statements. You use Zionist as an epithet and since a Zionist per se supports Israel, your meaning is clear, even if your are not able to understand the import of your words.

Finally, up until this point I haven’t called you anti-Jewish and I really don’t have to. The fact that you stated:

“GO LIVE THERE Mike and get the hell out of THIS country.”

If you substituted Jew for Mike in that sentence it would have the same meaning, but you lack the courage to show your true beliefs, even while you lack the capacity to conceal them.

I am not against the existence of Israel or Jews. I am against the fact that the United States is still treating Israel as if it was still the Israel mentioned in the Bible–its NOT—nor has it been for some 70 years now. Religion is the most dangerous thing in the world–always has been–and religion will be the ruination of this planet.

Let’s finally be honest here though and cut through your crap and my patiently not really even resorting to choice epithets.
You are not a believer in the right of Israel to exist and you believe Zionism to be bad. You introduced this topic by a sideways attack on Emmanuel’s father, but that was the smokescreen to get around to your real points. Larry, it is so damned rhetorically obvious, that of course I haven’t taken you seriously. As for responding to you point by point why should I offer you a courtesy you haven’t extended to me?

Larry,
The reason I don’t deal with you is illustrated by your sentence above. Do you understand what you’ve written and what it implies? If I answered it as you wish I would have to say that:

Yes I am a Zionist and I’m against Palestinians being killed.

This is underlined by your assumption by my not answering that you’d have to assume that I’m 100% for Palestinians not being killed, which indeed I am and yes I support Zionism.

Now as far as your charge that I’m deflecting your points, I would say it is more your inability to provided a rational argument that causes me to ignore you. You brought your brother into it as a “straw men” and I don’t take “straw man” arguments seriously. By the way you still haven’t told me about your parent’s background so I can decide what it is you stand for, as you do with Mr. Emmanuel. For all I know your parents were members of the Aryan Nation, or perhaps officials of the PLO? This would, by your own reasoning powers affect the person you are.

I don’t answer you because you are incapable of interesting discussion and your sole purpose is to gratify your needy ego by attacking something. You are here to bait, not debate and that’s a hook I’m not biting.

I love how, ONCE AGAIN, you IGNORED 90% of my post and only focused on ONE sentence—so, since you have reading comprehension problems, Ill post the same post again (I will delete the part that you DID address):
Yeah, he did a great job IGNORING my post—which is what YOU do Patty! No wonder he got your approval! Still ignoring the YouTube links where Emanuel talks about FORCED service—still IGNORING the parts where I talked about Obama continuing Bush policies….ignore, ignore, ignore, ignore. Mike—Im actually shocked that you completely diverted attention away from my MAIN point about the chat I had with my brother and decided to turn it into an ad hominem attack. Thats CLEARLY what you did. The POINT of my chat with him WAS NOT that it was my brother—it was the substance of the dialogue—-which you IGNORED. I should have just said “a friend” so I could have seen how you would have diverted from that as well.

I’ll be waiting on pins and needles to see how you IGNORE and deflect away from this post!!

Will you ignore it AGAIN????

“GO LIVE THERE Mike and get the hell out of THIS country. The U.S. people are supposed to protect OUR people, no one elses!”

Larry,
Perhaps you should get the hell out of my country since I was born here, but more importantly I understand what this country is about, whereas you just think you represent it all. I actually would like the US to cease all aid to Israel, because the country can stand on its’ own without the Us shackling it to protect the Saudi’s. At that point you might see how quickly and peacefully peace comes about.
**************

Mike you know that we cannot have counter intelligence if we did not give something. We are honor bond to give other people other things so that we can justify being in the middle of it.

I do agree that peace would be brought about in many areas much quicker if we were not involved.

Larry,
Perhaps you should get the hell out of my country since I was born here, but more importantly I understand what this country is about, whereas you just think you represent it all. I actually would like the US to cease all aid to Israel, because the country can stand on its’ own without the Us shackling it to protect the Saudi’s. At that point you might see how quickly and peacefully peace comes about.

You may have fooled your fellow morons like Patty C, because she ignores, ignores, ignores too—–but those of us, like me, with any kind of a brain see exactly what you did. Your Bill O Reilly-style spin doesnt work with people like me.

The funny thing is, you COMPLETELY ignored my first post above which was directed at YOU personally. Instead you commented on the one I left for Patty. I guess when you have no facts to fight back with,then saying nothing IS one’s only option. Care to comment on my first post above (the one left at 3:51am)?? Care to comment on the YouTube videos of Emanuel?

You didnt deny that youre a Zionist and that you are against Palestinians being killed, so I’ll have to assume that you are 100% FOR those things. If you support Israel——GO LIVE THERE Mike and get the hell out of THIS country. The U.S. people are supposed to protect OUR people, no one elses!

I’ll be waiting on pins and needles to see how you IGNORE and deflect away from this post!!

Larry,
I really don’t think this site is the proper forum for you to discuss your family issues. Is it your younger brother? If so then I suspect you feel your parents showed him more love. However, if it is your older brother than I suspect that you somehow feel overshadowed and less of a person than he is. In any event I think there are psychological sites that could be of more help with your problems.

However, since your post is rife with family issues would it be too much for me to inquire as to your parent’s history. This would of course relate to your criticism of Rahm Emmanuel and would give us insight into your motivations and actions. I say this only because you have put forth the proposition that Mr. Emmanuel’s father’s history controls his actions and suitability. What was your father’s history and how does it control you and/or make you a better/worse person?

“No, I liked Rahmn Emanuel for putting forth his proposal to cut off funding for Cheney’s fourth branch of government, at a time when something sorely needed to happen along with a lot of other things, thank you.

Other than that, he’s no longer elected to anything, and I’ve never voted for him. If Obama likes his friend from Illinois as Chief of Staff, he can have him. It doesn’t bother me.”

The Chief of Staff has a SIGNIFICANT amount of influence on foreign policy!!! And it “doesnt bother you?” Are they prosecuting Cheney and Bush’s war crimes Patty????? Hmmmm???? I see that you COMPLETELY IGNORED the links I posted above where Rahm Emanuel talked about FORCED government service of Americans. Tell me something Patty—is FORCED, compulsory service FREEDOM? Or is it SLAVERY? Tell me the EXACT portion of our Constitution that gives these pricks the right to FORCE me to do government service!!

Here’s the links again. Im sure youll IGNORE them again!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0B7dOQwKm0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRVMNS1VlLg

Mike S. ignored the clips too. Guess the truth is hard to swallow when youre blinded by the phony right/left paradigm

“I really don’t care to engage with people like Larry, myself, but feel free.”

LOL, because you have no FACTS to support your conclusions! You sound like my brother. A few weeks ago he told me he likes Obama. I said “why? he’s continued about 15 Bush policies so far…not ONE troop is home, he continued the military commissions, he put 84 BILLION more towards the wars (that he said he was against) and is REFUSING to prosecute the Bush war crimes. (By the way, do you know that Obama’s inaction on prosecuting war crimes makes HIM guilty of war crimes too? If you dont believe me—just ask Jonathan Turley. I think you’ve heard of him…you’re on his site)

Then I said, “Tell me one reason you like him”. Know what his EXACT words were? “I dont have a case. I just like him”. Then I said, “So, you like him because you like him.” Then I said, “If you dont have a case, then how did you come to the conclusion that you ‘like him’?” Then he wanted to drop the subject—–much like Patty C is doing. I accused my brother of being EXACTLY like the Bush people who said the SAME THING for 8 years. Then he hung up on me.

So, Patty—you like him because you like him, huh? BRILLIANT.

“If it was John McCain in the WH, we would have an egostistical, incompetent as President, backed by a totally incompetent Vice President and be on the verge of nuclear war. By the way his Vice President’s husband was a member for 8 years of an organization founded by a terrorist, the AIP, and was thus in favor of Alaska’s secession from the Union. Are you peachy with that?”

Mike, you seem to be more frightened about a terrorist connection to someone who DIDNT get elected than you are about a terrorist connection to someone who DID and that connection is IN our White House—-LITERALLY INSIDE our White House!! Now its crystal clear—-you’re a Zionist, arent you? You LOVE that Palestinians were murdered by Emanuel’s father. After all, Rahm Emanuel’s middle name IS “ISRAEL”!

I am 100% AGAINST any support of Israel. The Bible and religion are both very dangerous things and these wars going on right now in Iraq and Afghanistan are about ISRAEL—-NOT terror——PERIOD. Why are we sacrificing Americans for support of Israel??? Why?? I am so sick and tired everytime I hear someone say “the troops are fighting for our freedom”. NO. They are fighting for criminals who support Israel. Like Kissinger said in 1973—–troops are “stupid pawns used for foreign policy”. Those are his words, not mine. Our leaders dont give a rats ASS about our troops. They are dying for the imperialism of America—nothing else. There IS no “war on terror”.

Let me guess…you believe in global warming too??? Believe in the Easter bunny and Bigfoot?

Certainly, you do remember ‘niblet’, n’est ce pas?

I really don’t care to engage with people like Larry, myself, but feel free.

I have fields of ‘niblets’ planted here that I’m enjoying so much more.

I’m on Maine shore leave.

I agree w/you. These are arostocracies who favor rule of the elite.

To me those are the progressives. Those in the massess who THINK they themselves are progressive do NOT realize how the progressive elite manipulates them as pawns to maintain their rule.

GWBush was a GLOBAL PROGRESSIVE AUTHORITARIAN ELITIST. He uses a different mechanism than Obama BUT they’re both ONLY interested in doing the bidding of the GLOBAL CORPROCRACY that runs them. They just drape their agenda’s in different rhetoric.

I only find the “typical” progressive rhetoric like Obama’s particularly annoying w/all his “soapbox moralising” But I do belive Bush’s wrapping of “patriotism” around every cause just as dangerous.

I’m sure you remember that it was GHWBush who talked of a NWO in his inauguration speech. Classic progressive “key words” The Bush aristocracy is maybe the most influential w/it’s business ties to the Saud dynasty. For the last 17 years at least the world has been at the mercy of the interests of those 2 dynasties.

I don’t even know the classification of the Bush’s they’vechanged as they see fit. They were part of that “yankee elist” crowd for a long time. But now after GW, they’ve crafted themselves as “cowboys”. Whatever they are they’re elist progressives that are only interested in promoting the global interests of the few at the expense of the many.

I know, I digress.

“WHY? What if it was John McCain in the White House and he selected someone for his administration who’s father was a terrorist? Youd be peachy with that?”

If it was John McCain in the WH, we would have an egostistical, incompetent as President, backed by a totally incompetent Vice President and be on the verge of nuclear war. By the way his Vice President’s husband was a member for 8 years of an organization founded by a terrorist, the AIP, and was thus in favor of Alaska’s secession from the Union. Are you peachy with that?

sicilian 1,
While there is much we agree on the statement above is a sticking point. To refute it I will mention four names who are/were charter members of the aristocracy. Richard Mellon Scaife, William F. Buckley, G.H.W. Bush, The Walton Family, the Welch family of jelly fame, the Mars Family members and Grover Norquist. Google any of these to see their non-progressive credentials and their contributions to the “Ameristocracy.”
All of these are aristocrats who favor rule by the elite and none could be labeled progressive in any sense of the word. Are there progressive Aristocrats, of course, but the American Aristocracy is not controlled by them, though they do go along with maintaining their privileges.

http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/07/11/holder-v-rahm-the-torture-fight/

Holder v. Rahm: The Torture Fight

Like I said–the story is pretty puffy and definitely pro-Holder. But it does reveal important details about the conflicts within the Administration over whether or not to hold anyone accountable for these crimes.

End Quote}
__________________________________

Other than that, he’s no longer elected to anything, and I’ve never voted for him. If Obama likes his friend from Illinois as Chief of Staff, he can have him. It doesn’t bother me.

I have no opinion about Rahm Emanuel’s father. Rahm Emanuel,
I like.”

UNBELIEVABLE. And why do you like Rahm Emanuel? Hes the guy who wrote a freaking book in 2006 called “The Plan: Big Ideas for America” that said he wanted to create a National Civilian Security force and has since talked about wanting our youth to be included in involuntary servitude. Do you want Americans to be FORCED to serve? Thats not freedom, thats slavery.

Want to see clips?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0B7dOQwKm0

The GIVE Act is nothing but ceating another Hitler Youth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRVMNS1VlLg

and you LIKE this guy?? WHY? What if it was John McCain in the White House and he selected someone for his administration who’s father was a terrorist? Youd be peachy with that?

“A set of principles finally to be brought to life”

I like that. You sure you weren’t M.L.K.jr’s counselor? M.L.K. actually used the words of the Constitution to show the “rightness” of his cause. But that’s another topic.

I agree w/what most of what you said. I believe all those in the “aristocracy” are the elite progressives.

We are the people. We all need to come together to relize how we are played as pawns.

I love that quote of yours. You BETTER copyright it. That document (Constitution), no matter the beliefs or intentions of those who wrote it, can not be ignored. Only WE THE PEOPLE can let “THEM” get away w/it b/c WE were given so much that we don’t even avail ourselves of. To me, that is why M.L.K. was so successful. B/c no matter what these racsist and slave owners who wrote the Constitution practiced and how hard they worked to maintain it, the words they wrote would never allow for those practices to last.

We have all been interred as slaves to this govn’t BUT b/c of the Constitution it can only continue if WE let it.

For real, copyright that line. It was brilliant in it’s simplicity.

Thanks.

I hear what you’re saying.

Just for clarification, I didn’t mean you intended the stone at me nor did I intend a stone for you. I was wondering how you meant that in respects to the questions I asked. Thanks for clarifying. And thanks for not reading something into what I said.

Believe me, I’ve seen many a “ZIP” say something that meant one thing in one province that offended someone from another province. There would be sitdowns and all kinds of and apologizes and hand shaking.

Money problems could always be settled real easy but, especially w/Zips, insults and face-saving could lead to all kinds of trouble.

What I meant w/my proverb was that, when someone is wronged (Gitmo prisoners/ And that’s how they’ll feel no matter what) they will be consumed w/vengence till the end of their days. So whatever we do w/these Gitmo guys, right or wrong, we’re going to be left w/vendetta’s that will trancsend generations.

{Quote:

“No person wants to live in a society where the rule of law gives way to the rule of brutality and bribery.”

End Quote}
_______________________________

I always eat well. I’m the chef in my house, like yourself! It’s mespo, sans appliances during his culinary remodel who needed support this past week.

Here’s another Moroccan couscous, only with more spice and veggies. Skip the chicken recipe here, though. Although I haven’t tried it, it looks bland.

http://www.bonappetit.com/magazine/2008/08/grilled_lemon_chicken_and_moroccan_couscous_salad

sicilian 1,
It is a very long series of questions you ask, but I think that the answers to them are actually short, at least from my perspective. That is not because I intend to dismiss you, but because I think the truth is uncomplicated and in plain sight if we but let ourselves see it, without the filter of our own
pre-judgments.

“how do WE turn back the clock to re-take what the govn’t has stolen?”

The Constitution of the US is one of mankind’s seminal documents. It is nothing less than a blueprint for the establishment and maintenance of a free society, a society
that had never for existed in world history. However, even its
creators understood that for it to work, the populace must be able adhere to and interpret/re-interpret it, or fall into the usual trap of human history which is to revert to a society of “Great Apes,” where the most powerful rule.

Washington himself faced this quickly as our First President when there was a clamor for him to keep the job for life. Indeed there were those at the constitutional Convention that wanted him to be made King.

Also inherent in the Constitution were the seeds of its’ own destruction given the compromises due to slavery and its’ total lack of recognition of the rights of women. The solution then from the beginning was to take that document as a framework and to let it become a living one by re-interpretation as time went by. Some people believed in this solution, others did not and thus was born from the outset the same basic issues that we face today, dressed in the modern idiom, but still depressingly the same.

Mixed in with this was the separation between those who believe in a human aristocracy that is fit to rule (whatever
way one defines that elite characterization)and those who feel that the society should be governed by the will of the people, tempered with a recognition and protection of the rights of minorities. To me then there is no clock to be turned back because Constitutional Rule was never effectuated from the beginning. It’s not a clock to be turned back, it is a set of principles to finally be brought to life.

“I would like your larger perspective of where we are as a citizenry/ How did we let our Constitution be usurped? Do you feel that WE have let the govn’t legislate away many of our liberties?’

In my opinion we as a citizenry have never had the power and therefore nothing has been usurped, it was never there in the first place. Remember, most of our wealthiest Founding Fathers, some extremely good and capable men, were also among the wealthiest in the fledgling country. They ran the show from the start and people like Sam Adams, for instance were pushed aside because he wasn’t of their class. To me the history of this country has always been a battle of the elites, with one side clinging to its’ imagined “Aristocratic”
prerogatives and the other with empathy for the plight of all of the nations citizenry. Remember for years one couldn’t vote if they didn’t own property and women couldn’t vote until the early 20th Century.

“And if so please explicate. How do you feel the whole Gitmo issue will eventually play out? And most importantly, how do WE turn back the clock to re-take what the govn’t has stolen?”

The real problem we face isn’t “Gitmo” as bad as it is. The real problem is the ages old struggle between those who believe a society (and the world)is best run for the benefit of an “elite” (aristocracy?)who will then take care of the rest of us as they see fit. On the other side are those who believe in a more egalitarian way of running things that ensures that minimum humane standards of life should be available to all and that each human being should have the ability to maximize their potential. The socio/political and economic constructs are never the point or the solution of this struggle, they are merely the smokescreen that hides the essence. The essence is can a human being live their life w/o
being controlled by those who live their lives for ego, power and the joy of dominance? The age old struggle then, in my opinion, is whether we continue to live like a society of Great Apes, or whether we evolve into beings who can live together w/o the threats of those lusting for power.

Now I know your, to me, obsession with “progressives” but that is where I think you miss the point. It’s not the politics, it’s the bullies and they come at you from all sides of the political spectrum.

Mespo,
Bob was quoting me on this. Knowing the possible inflammatory nature of the statement:

“This horrific incident, which incidentally does not compare in catastrophe to either Pearl Harbor, or the Civil War.”

My use of “catastrophe” was purposeful for this reason. Catastrophe connotes a horrific event of widespread import. While less lives were lost at Pearl Harbor, the destruction of our Pacific Fleet was a greater cataclysm for the fortunes of the US than 9/11. For a while it gave the attackers control of the Pacific at the outset of a war. 9/11 no doubt gave those terrorists some heavy publicity, but it gave them control of nothing, which is the usual outcome of horrific terrorist acts. I referred to the civil war in general since we know many of the individual battles produced deaths beyond 3,000. The Civil War itself though was catastrophic for the effect it had upon us a country and as a society and that effect far eclipsed 9/11.

Whenever we talk of lives lost it perforce ignores the tragic effects on those left behind by the deceased. Aggregating
numbers for intellectual purposes always diminishes the actual human costs involved. Recognizing this I was trying to carefully separate 9/11 the human and cultural tragedy, from 9/11 the national tragedy, but of necessity that is difficult.

My contention is that the human tragedy of 9/11 was manipulated by the Bush/Cheney Crime Family to elevate its’ effect beyond proportion and thus justify a pseudo-response that had the effect of unjustified war, expense and attacks on the very fabric that holds our country together.

No stone intended. The literal translation around my house for that Italian saying was “When the chess game is over, the pawns, rooks, knights, bishops, kings, and queens all go back into the same box.” It meant to me that all wars end, and some connections transcend strongly held differences of opinion.

I’m just a straight Siciliano who picked up all my dialect from slang spoken in the social clubs and my house.

“When the games ends the pedestrians, the horses, the two queens, the vesconi (?) will all be in the same little box.”

I’m a Sicilian so I know all about double meanings, that could be an insult, a warning or a prediction.

I’ll just leave some words we should all take heed when dealing w/anyone b/c it could go for our intention or the intention of our foes.

“Livarsi na petra di la scarpa”

“Quando finisce la partita, i pedoni, le torri, i cavalli, i vescovi, i due re e le due regine tutti vanno nello stesso scatolo.”

I’ve been following these posts and there are many intelligent and informed opinions. People can pontificate abt this forever. I have been enlightened by the analysis of past SC decisions and how they apply and could effect these issues.

In a perfect system, how should these Gitmo prisoners be classified?

Legally speaking:

How long can they be held?
And does there need to be an ongoing war to hold them? Or are the
crimes with which they’ve been charged enough to hold them indefinitely?
Are they due speedy trial rights?
What are their due process rights, in regards to different classification?
Is the POW tag neccessary to hold them indefinitely?
How long can they be classified as POW’s?
If the war on terror is an “eternal” designation then does that mean the prisoners are “eternal” POW’s and the govn’t will “eternally” hold them?
If they are civilian criminals, how should there case be adjudicated?
If convicted as civilian criminals, where should they be held in custody?
Once they’ve served their sentences, would they be deportable?

But amidst all this I believe the bigger issue is how the govn’t gets away w/this.
B/c I believe that the govn’t will classify these prisoners in determination of however long they want to hold them,and will re-classify them if they have to,and however many times they have to to hold them as long as they politically can get away with or want to.

And when that fails they will manipulate and pressure the courts as much as they can to get the outcomes they desire.

And when that fails they’ll just tell everyone to go pound sand and take it up the wahzoo.

I would also like to know how WE as a people have allowed the govn’t to get away w/disregarding the Constitution and CENTRALIZING powers the way they have.

I know I have taken some shots at the lawyers BUT in reality I know that it is not truly their fault. The executive branch has turned the other 2 branches into it’s minions. The courts have been so corrupted by the bullying of the executive branch that we are tied in knots w/legislation and rulingsthat are so subtle in it’s contradictions that any ruling can be justified.

The judges, lawyers and prosecutors are scared stiff of not towing the party line. It’s nice to talk abt constructs such as “doing what’s right”, “standing for justice”, “following your conscience”, etc. But when you face the might, majesty and dictatorial heavy handedness of the federal govn’t, the self preservation instincts kick in and your just looking to survive to the next day.

MIKE S,

I askyou this question b/c you have an insight from a historical perspective. You’ve been in the trenches during the 60’s fighting the fight. Even though I was on the “wrong” side of the law, I too feel like I was fighting the noble fight. I was joined w/my brethern and standing hard against the oppression of the powers that be. But after being slapped down by “big brother” even I was humbled and decided to live a less “virtuous” life. I know you have had a personal experience w/an ex-felon so I know you do not hold my past against me. We have slung mud at each other in the past but I still respect your opinion. I am not trying to bait you, you have my word as a man.

I would like your larger perspective of where we are as a citizenry/ How did we let our Constitution be usurped? Do you feel that WE have let the govn’t legislate away many of our liberties? And if so please explicate. How do you feel the whole Gitmo issue will eventually play out? And most importantly, how do WE turn back the clock to re-take what the govn’t has stolen?

If you disagree w/any of the questions, please feel free to explicate why.

Take your time in answering. It’s time for me to watch “Friday Night Smackdown” (Wrestling) So I will return to read your comments later.

Also to Mespo (Even though we’ve battled, when push comes to shove, we’re still “La stessa cosa”. I hope you feel the same)and Bob, Esq., in your legal expertise, (irrespective of yoour personal desires for the ultimate adjudication of the prisoners cases) how do you feel this is ultimately going to all play out in the end for the Gitmo detainees?

Forgot this one:

“SCOTUS took care of that issue.”

Hamdi?

Hamdam?

Which case and how went into the systematic abuse of constitutional powers in directing the nation in a war against the undefined and thereby justifying the indeterminate detentions of all said undefined individuals?

“You’ll get no argument from me that Bush got an inch and took a mile based on the Congressional authorization, but as you note the authorization is broadly written and of indeterminate length.”

Not only is the length undefined, but so are the enemies and the ultimate objective; thereby leading to something closely resembling this:

Capt. Dobbs: You admit it!

Capt. Yossarian: I admit I’m being [attacked].

Capt. McWatt: Yeah? By whom?

Capt. Yossarian: By them!

Capt. Dobbs: But, who specifically is “them”?

Capt. Yossarian: Every one of them!

Capt. Dobbs: Every one of who?!

Capt. Yossarian: Every one of who do you think!

Capt. Dobbs: I haven’t any idea!

Capt. Yossarian: Then how do you know they aren’t?!

In Re: The “Bush” transgressions v. the “Obama” transgressions

Jill has her panties in a twist, and rightly so, over Obama adopting the Bush agenda on a wholesale level while nobody dare says a word.

What changed? Do I hear it said that an arrogant under-educated inarticulate Executive using the Constitution as a urinal puck is an outrage, while the same acts and legacies continued by his more reserved, well educated and race-barrier-breaking- successor should be greeted with warm-hearted applause?

At the moment, Obama has followed in that same old tradition of power; once gained rarely ever given back. Accordingly, if you’re going to distinguish Bush from Obama, please do so in earnest.

Finally, here’s a little thought experiment regarding the problem with relying on an authorization to wage war on the “undefined.”

http://www.philforhumanity.com/Infinity_Minus_Infinity.html

IT NEVER ENDS.