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most of the arguments surrounding Dave’s orginal post are just hysterical reactionary knee jerks. The laws in that area don’t prohibit such activities as the defendant was charged with therefore no charges can be brought upon him.

Whether Dave decided to use Gay marriage as his example of “icky” or whether it was the collected works of de Sade, or slavery of any other thing the individual may find tasteless or offensive is beside the point.
He was clearly making the statement that “I think people here are getting too caught up in their own, personal disgust of bestiality. Whatever your feelings about its morality or hygiene, bear in mind that the law is under no obligation to take your personal feelings into account.”

the law needs to be impartial, beyond whatever the current zeightgeist is. it’s needs to be ruthless, cold and even heartless at times. But more precisely it needs to be exacting to the letter we have defined it as. We are ultimately responisble for the laws that are created.

i’m not condoning the behaviour of this pig.
i’m saying we make the laws,
1) why the f**k aren’t there laws against beastiality in New Jersey ?
2) why the f**k aren’t there laws against beastiality in New Jersey ?

Sexual Paraphernalia, indeed. This is not the first time you have used these words. Whats up with you on this? Is everyone and everyone and everything in your book related to some sexual deviance?

The RCC by no means has a lock on this abuse. By no means, I think that they intentionally have acted in conspiratorial manners sets the tone for a lot of people to see how hollow it is. I too went to catholic school.

I think that you need to evaluate you responses to the folks on the Blawg. Why do you feel the need to be offensive? Attacking? Generally unhappy? Make your point and disagree don’t make it personal.

Sweet and Sour Calves’ Tongue: Lingua Agrodolce

http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/mario-batali/sweet-and-sour-calves-tongue-lingua-agrodolce-recipe/index.html

Can a 14 year old human give consent to a 30 year old human? Seems like they’ve got a lot higher decision making abilities then dogs.”

Yes, here in Bulgaria the age of consent is 14, for heterosexual as well as for homosexual sex, irrespective of the age difference of the parties to the sexual act.

A 79-year old man may legally make sex with a 14 year+1 day boy.

Yeah, plus I hear she was wearing ‘pumps’ …

Very good ‘cryptic’ wit there…

COME ON COW BITE THAT SHIT OFF!

IM NEVER DRINKIN MILK AGAIN

black and white patches are a definite turn on.

I think you meant that last to be directed at me.

I didn’t say “all societies” I said “We as a society.” Please respond to what I actually say, and I’ll try and do the same with you. I know it’s nit picky, but I find it helps conversations to actually listen rather then assume.

I think the main hang up in this conversation is the word “consent.” I’m using it in very specific way (I hope the lawyers here would correct me if I’m using it wrong), and you are using it that way sometimes, and at other times as a synonym for “permission.” My point with asking you about the 14 year old’s ability to give consent was an attempt to illustrate that the law says consent isn’t the same as permission.

Finally, you should realize that we can read what you originally wrote. Your first two comments in this conversation pretty clearly imply that you feel that the justification for bestiality laws is because people think it’s icky.

Since you seem as firm in your position as I am in mine, I’m done with this conversation. If I haven’t explained myself clearly by this point, I’m not going to do it.

Why are you addressing the comments you made at 1:44 pm to me?

My last questions to you were the following: “What kind of empirical evidence could be used to prove animal cruelty in a case such as this? If not a head-butt from one of the calves–then what?”

Your answers to these questions were:
“Empirical evidence could be anything. How do you know when a cat doesn’t like to be smoothed? How do you know when a dog with a broken leg is in pain? If the calf tries to get away, if it cries for help, or if it is otherwise clearly distressed, then I say that would constitute animal cruelty.

“But I’m not an animal psychologist. They would undoubtedly give you a better answer than I.”

My question to you: If you find that a cat crying for help, trying to get away, or appearing to be in distress may be signs that the cat is the victim of animal cruelty–then why not consider that the calf who head-butted Melia in the stomach and appeared unhappy may also have been a victim of animal cruelty?

First, not all societies have deemed bestiality wrong. As this judge shows, it is legal in some jurisdictions.

Second, I never said people question it because they see it as ‘icky’. I said that people commenting here seem to be taking their own personal opinions too seriously. Societies at large may have different reasons, such as animal cruelty, or a danger to humans (lest we forget ‘Mr. Hands’).

Third, animals are treated as more than property. We don’t penalise people for being cruel to their garden, do we? Indeed, we treat children as the effective pets (or property) of their guardians.

Fourth, besides the issue of cruelty, I believe the only other pertinent question IS that of consent: if neither party is harmed, and if we somehow knew that both parties had given consent, would you still object to bestiality? This is why I brought up the scenario of a dog mounting a human: the dog has quite clearly given consent (inasmuch as the dog clearly wants to have sex with the subject), as has the human.

Finally, while you would indeed be penalised for allowing your dog to drink anti-freeze, that doesn’t mean the dog has NO ability to give consent. The same is true if you allowed your child to drink anti-freeze: though it was their choice to drink, you would be punished. But they are still able to give consent with regards to other matters, so why not animals?

Would you please allow me to cherry picking the following.

“In this case, society decided that having sexual relationships with animals is wrong.” –Gyges

With out a bestiality law in New Jersey, prosecutors cannot charge it.

From the Philly.com article, by J. Nark,
Although a bill was introduced in 2005 to ban bestiality, New Jersey still has no explicit ban on the sexual penetration of animals, which is why the Burlington County Prosecutor’s Office charged Melia with animal cruelty. –J. Nark

I think … a clear case of abuse of a living creature.
– Gyges

Yes I agree with you.

I wonder why the grand jury didn’t get to see the tape? Which might have made a stronger case for the judge to convict on the animal cruelty charge.

The reason this isn’t a matter of consent is simple: Animal’s aren’t people. Animals are viewed as property in the eyes of the law.

My car can’t give consent, neither can a cow. Now just because something is your property, doesn’t mean you get to do whatever you want with it, we have all sorts of laws regulating property use. In this case, society decided that having sexual relationships with animals is wrong. You think that it’s because we think it’s icky, I think it’s because it’s a clear case of abuse of a living creature. I don’t expect to change your mind on the matter, but I’ll give you one (though flawed) comparison: My dog would probably enjoy drinking anti-freeze, but I’d still be charged with abuse for giving it to him.

Appropriate for this is, Do you know how to tell when you are getting close to East Lansing? Well, all the sheep are backed up to the fence.

Is this not where in Jackson, MI, the men have mustaches and most of the women do as well?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/24/dogs-in-crazy-costumes-ph_n_298682.html?slidenumber=0#slide_image

Couldn’t agree more about using humor. Yes, I guess I’m in my element here contributing to this “silly thread.” I find laughter a good cathartic for the frustration and/or outrage I feel at times–considering eveything that’s been going on in this country in the past decade.

I must admit I find the story about officer Melia and the cows disturbing. Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction!

From your bio, I see that you are a former teacher and write children’s poetry. I think you have found the requisite age group within this silly thread. Oh well, it helps to try humor in these times of hardship…

I never met an English teacher I did not like until I got 2 male Ph.Ds; 1 for college Freshman English (R&R) and the other in a 300-level English Literature class. Never get a male Ph.D. instructor for any English class!

—

I have to agree with billy on this one! I don’t buy the suckling defense (Really?!? Wow!!!).

PS. billy, in the spirit of civility currently circulating through these pages, I’d like to extend an olive branch of peace to you. I know we’ve disagreed before, and I was fairly final in our last exchange. I’d like to set that aside, and in the spirit of Bush-Cheney (tongue-in-cheek), move forward. I apologize if I’ve offended any anyway. I look forward to the continued discussion…

Empirical evidence could be anything. How do you know when a cat doesn’t like to be smoothed? How do you know when a dog with a broken leg is in pain? If the calf tries to get away, if it cries for help, or if it is otherwise clearly distressed, then I say that would constitute animal cruelty.

But I’m not an animal psychologist. They would undoubtedly give you a better answer than I.

Mike,

I said: I’m not saying that to have sex with another man (or woman) is as immoral as having sex with an animal.

I don’t know how else to say it. I’m NOT (repeat: not) saying that the morality of homosexual sex is the same as the morality of bestial sex. It is not as immoral, nor as amoral, nor as moral: their moral values, whatever they may be, are different.

My sentence was constructed to say they AREN’T of the same moral value. Since we’re talking about immorality, I used the word ‘immoral’. If I say “Murder isn’t as good as charity”, am I espousing the moral virtue of murder? No, of course not.

On mr. ed and Wilbur, all I can say is: I knew it!

Dave,
You’re not saying that it is as immoral as bestiality, but the “is as immoral” connotes to me that you do believe that homosexuality and/or possibly sex, is immoral at albeit a lesser level. My question was basically given that sentence construction do you believe that homosexuality and/or perhaps sex is immoral at any level.

I understand why the judge may have determined that Melia was not guilty of cruelty to animals. I do find some of the judge’s comments bizarre–when he talked about pacifiers and suckling babies, for example.

My question is: What kind of empirical evidence could be used to prove animal cruelty in a case such as this? If not a head-butt from one of the calves–then what?

I see what Turley is saying, but it ignores the fact that simply claiming the animal enjoyed it is secondary to actual empirical evidence to the contrary. Killing an animal slowly and painfully can’t be excused with the ‘they enjoyed it’ defence, because they quite obviously didn’t.

In cases where it’s not so obvious that the animal didn’t enjoy it, all we can do is make a judgement call.

We were not in the court. We do not know the reasons the judge concluded that the man was not guilty of animal cruelty. We can cry foul till we’re blue in the face, but I’m willing to trust that the judge made the right decision until demonstrated otherwise.

Staten Islander Anthony Taylor was arrested Wednesday for traveling to Pennsylvania with the intent of having sex with a woman and her 14-month-old child.

Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/24/anthony-taylor-man-arrest_n_298535.html

One wonders how this judge would evaluate the cognitive level of the 14 month old in order to determine whether this sick piece of sh** broke a law?

If child porn was found in his home is he not a responsible party for that offense? Can he not be arrested for that? This ruling does allow melia to proceed to court on possibily a child porn charge and say he had no prior convictions. That right there is a plus for him if he is arrested/tried for child porn.

National Association for Man Cow Love Affairs

Ain’t snitchin’ but Mr.Ed and Wilbur have been out tae da barn since the break of morn’ after pitchforkin’ some new mowed hay in stanchion #69. HorseFeathers!