Texas Gov. Rick Perry has taken an perfectly Nixonian step of gutting a commission just days before it was to hear expert testimony indicating that Texas executed an innocent man, Cameron Todd Willingham. There is growing evidence that Texas not only convicted an innocent man but fought to prevent him from presenting evidence to prove his innocence. Just days before the hearing before the Texas Forensic Science Commission, Perry dumped the Chairman and declined to reappoint two commission members. The move may block the ability of Craig Beyler, an arson investigation expert, to prove that Willingham was innocent of setting a fire in his home in Corsicana, Texas, that killed his three daughters.
Perry replaced Chairman Sam Bassett with John Bradley, the district attorney of Williamson County, near Austin.
Beyler has stated that there was no credible evidence that Willingham set the fire or that it was even an act of arson. Two prior reports found that the fire was not caused by arson. Other experts have discredited the evidence presented by prosecutors in Texas.
Unable to change such reports, Perry has changed the commission and withheld appointments — effectively postponing any hearing.
To the day of his execution, Willingham insisted that he was innocent.
Perry has introduced a new Zen-like question: if evidence of innocence is spoken but no one is there to hear it, is the person really shown to be innocent?
For the story, click here
Texas alarms me, because they have been “to quick” to apply the death penalty. I support the death penalty as a whole. I don’t like it when information that can exonerate a prisoner is not analyzed fully, especially in this sophisticated day and age. What with the advent of modern forensics, especially the use of DNA sampling to help substantiate a persons involvement in a crime, just seems a little primitive and impulsive. Of course, if he is guilty….
This does not surprise me at all. After all it is the beginning of election year in Texas.
What does surprise me is that in Texas No Medical Degree is require to be a Coroner/Crowner.
Medical Examiner and Coroner Systems: Current and Future Needs
This is a load of shit to require no specialized training.
“Moreover, early state constitutions explicitly mentioned the position of coroner, often without defining the role.3 Georgia’s state constitution was the first. Article XL stated that, “[i]n the absence of the chief justice, the senior justice on the bench shall act as chief justice with the clerk of the county, attorney for the State, sheriff, coroner, constable, and the jurors.”4
The first formal acknowledgment of the need for medical training for coroners occurred in 1860, when Maryland passed legislation allowing coroners to require that a physician be present at an inquest.”
link: http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=12589&page=241
In Texas as a few other states a medical examiner need not be a physician or trained in pathology. They only need to be elected some counties require them to be Doctors.
See the result for this article:
Texas commission to consider report disputing the arson finding that led to man’s execution
Now the Texas Forensic Science Commission will review a report Friday from an expert it hired who concluded the original arson determination was faulty.
Link: http://www.sfexaminer.com/nation/ap/texas-commission-to-consider-report-disputing-the-arson-finding-that-led-to-mans-execution.html
OMG
Could someone file a mandamus petition to force an appointment?
To answer the question above: Could someone file a mandamus petition to force an appointment?
I believe that the answer is no. The Commission has no real power or authority an was created in 2005. I would suppose in response to the execution. I believe that it occurred this way as Texas is a Biannual Legislature. 05, 07, 09′ etc.
Perry has appointed 2 of the 3 and awaits a confirmation from the Texas Defense Bar for the 3rd. It is in my opinion a stupid move as (if you see) Kay Bailey Hutchinson a witch in her own right will trample him steed and all. She is as vicious as Ann Richards, maybe even more so.
But extracted out of 3 different sites.
“Willingham was executed in February 2004 — proclaiming his innocence and hoping aloud that his wife would “rot in hell” — for the deaths of his three young daughters in a fire at their Corsicana home on Dec. 23, 1991.”
Link: http://www.sfexaminer.com/nation/ap/texas-commission-to-consider-report-disputing-the-arson-finding-that-led-to-mans-execution.html
and:
The commission employed the person below:
“Baltimore-based arson expert Craig Beyler, who was hired by the commission, concluded that the arson finding was scientifically unsupported and investigators at the scene had “poor understandings of fire science.” His report has bolstered arguments from advocacy groups that Willingham was innocent and wrongly executed.
Earlier this month, Perry expressed confidence in Willingham’s guilt and derided reports questioning the arson investigation, referring to their authors as “supposed experts.” Perry was governor in 2004, when Willingham was executed.
The state commission doesn’t have the power to rule on Willingham’s guilt or innocence but was expected to release a report next year on the validity of the arson investigation.
Link: http://www.star-telegram.com/local/story/1648784.html
And the year of the creation of the commission:
The Texas Forensic Science Commission was created
by the Texas Legislature in 2005 for the purpose of:
link: http://www.fsc.state.tx.us/
I hope Kay Bailey Hutchinson beats him in the primary. Granted, she is not that great but he is so incredibly backward thinking.
Hey JT Comment is awaiting confirmation. Maybe too many links.
AY,
I’m pretty sure 3 is the limit.
Swartzmoremom,
Who the hell from Haskel, Texas can think forward. The only thing they have in West Texas is oil and football. Sometimes it is hard to tell who the players are. They only have one DNA too.
Buddha,
Take care of KC and make em win the next three, The Tigers are 3 out.
Billy,
Go to a Tigers game, they need the win. M go Blow, but they will beat MSU.
Does anyone else see the remarkable likeness that Perry has to GW Bush (I’m speaking of the evil that drips from their persona).
“There is growing evidence that Texas not only convicted an innocent man but fought to prevent him from presenting evidence to prove his innocence.”
******************
My skepticism aside, I like to think ol’ smiling Rick with the non-moving hair will receive the justice he dispensed while alive when he gets to that spa down below. If he intentionally withheld a process that would have helped an innocent man escape the gas chamber, how does his differ morally (ethically? Buddha) from the guy who takes the “Bridge Out” sign from the roadside.
I think you are one sick puppy, b-man. Perry is a Tom Cruise look alike doll. Not much in brains either. I think the man with the picture on the top right is W’s half brother.
Buelaman:
“(I’m speaking of the evil that drips from their persona)”
It’s that smarmy smile on the head of a viper.
The only redeeming feature of Texas is Austin. They should have called it Oasis.
how does his differ morally (ethically? Buddha) from the guy who takes the “Bridge Out” sign from the roadside.
*******************
I have never heard of someone doing that. Wow, what will people do next? Cook people in Microwaves? Oh yeah, Hitler did that. Oh well not much more to surprise me, unless I find that the holocaust never happened.
billy- Cases like this are precisely why I oppose the death penalty. Justice in America is not about truth, it is about winning. Another innocent man put to death, and Texas is more concerned with ass-covering than admitting their mistake.
foo 1, October 1, 2009 at 4:38 pm
The only redeeming feature of Texas is Austin. They should have called it Oasis.
********************
I could not agree more than in the 70′s and 80′s. Then the whole damn state went R. Austin is an enclave. Oh yeah mostly immune to the rest of the shit from all the rest of the state.
When was the last time you were there?
Perry as a governor is even worse than Bush. Perry is an ally of Palin and even more aligned with the christian right than Bush was. Just think we had Ann Richards not that long ago.
Getplaning. Because Texas has gone awry, dosn’t mean that the death penalty cannot be an effective deterrent..
Better to put an innocent man to death than risk embarassment. These are the values of the hypocrite Republican party who advocate Christian values (i.e. protecting life of a fetus), who not only fail to prevent the death of an innocent, grieving father for fear of admitting a mistake, but then refusing to admit it was mistaken. What they want is not justice, it’s revenge regardless of guilt. Perry’s not interested in preventing this sort of thing from happening again, the more convictions the better. Like G.W. Bush, Perry will never admit he’s made a mistake no matter how many falsly accused, innocent people die at on his watch just so long as he never has to apologize. Better to save face than an innocent life.
He’s a Dirt Bag.
It isn’t accurate that the death penalty is a deterrent. Southern states use the death penalty far more and have higher homicide rates than the national average.
AY,
I was there this year actually, and also about 3 years ago. It’s still nice.
Actually, also a good place to raise a family since it has a good school (UT Austin), and cheap real estate.
Death penalty isn’t about deterrent, it’s about killing (i.e. primal justice). Some people get off on that stuff.
Swarthmore, it is a deterrent. The murderer who gets “executed” is deterred in perpetuity..
Billy,
I may be wrong and God knows I have been. The purpose of the deterrence is for other people, hopefully they will think twice before doing something so stupid. I think Swartzmoremom is saying this has not happened. I maybe wrong yet again. But i don’t think you can see the Forrest for the trees on this one or is that Trees for the Forrest?
I know you and so many others “esteem” the use of logic and reason, it is “prominently articulated” throughout this blog. My logic and reasonable assumption is founded in point of fact. If a killer is executed for the crime of murder, “he/she” is now permanently deterred from committing murder again. The deterrence is “full proof” but limited to the perpetrator, nothing more AY..
AY,
I think you are one sick puppy, b-man.
Woof
It is time for the man to put on the writs!
Perry’s cousin was killed today in a shootout with the Texas Rangers (not the baseball team).
He was sitting on his porch with a shotgun … and … well you can imagine …
B-man,
I at least thought you’d like it ruff, ruff!
Dredd,
Here is the link: http://www.kvue.com/news/state/stories/100109kvue_gov-perry-cousin-killed-cb.1d4dab033.html
Wow, what can be said. He was at home in Nacona, Texas.
“Montague County District Attorney Jack McGaughey says Wheeler was holding a shotgun and an officer was shot in the hand. No other details have been released, and an autopsy is pending.”
FYI, in Nacona, they make about 90 percent of all the MLB Gloves, plus other stuff.
Link: http://www.baseballgloves.com/nokona/index.html
Bet ya didn’t know some good stuff can come out of Texas.
foo 1, October 1, 2009 at 5:01 pm
AY,
I was there this year actually, and also about 3 years ago. It’s still nice.
Actually, also a good place to raise a family since it has a good school (UT Austin), and cheap real estate.
Death penalty isn’t about deterrent, it’s about killing (i.e. primal justice). Some people get off on that stuff.
*********************8
foo, Austin was great from 76′ to 84, the in 85 MCC and Nimitz moved in. They changed the landscape. Oh yeah, school is great to. Shuttle around campus, used to have 7 bars serving alcohol on campus. Then the shuttle to your off campus location. Oh yeah it was one of those times in my life. I think, some of it was fairly fuzzy I am certain, but I am not sure, what was real and what was not as I look back on my past.
You can do a lot of family raising if you are not careful there too I am sure. Lots of sorority’s too, never joined a fraternity, but was in a lot of sororities as I recall.
I subscribed to Neil Young’s “love the one your with.”
billy
Your logic is quite flawed. I don’t have the time to go into all the reasons, but I’ll mention deterrence. The deterrent effect is not, nor has it ever been, intended to deter the convicted person. The intent was always to deter others out of fear of similar state-sponsored retribution for a similar crime. Captial punishment is now and has always been a failure as a deterrent. It is barbaric retribution and shows an ethical weakness of a culture, not strength. If you can’t wrap your mind around the concept that mob revenge is never worth the life of even ONE innocent person, I suggest you need to check your values.
If anyone is interested in more background information detailing this horrific and tragic story here is a link to David Grann’s excellent article in The New Yorker magazine titled “Trial By Fire: Did Texas execute an innocent man?” :
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/09/07/fa_fact_grann
Apologies this should work:
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/09/07/090907fa_fact_grann
AY,
Texas does not need officially remove itself from The United States of Sanity, it has already done so.
But the good people of Texas (perhaps the minority) are still with the United States of Sanity.
The Catholic Church opposes the death penalty, how do practicing Catholics square that away?
Support for policy that the death penalty deters is at best weak and inconclusive.
Researched and investigated here by John J. Donohue and Justin Wolfers:
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/DonohueDeter.pdf
Henry nailed it for me,
Look, you death-penalty supporters, the question isn’t whether the guy deserves to be executed. The question is whether innocent people deserve to be executed. It is impossible for the criminal justice system to be foolproof, so, if you support the death penalty, you support the execution of innocent people. I’m not saying, of course, that you like to see the execution of innocent people; I’m saying that you consider the execution of innocent people to be acceptable collateral damage. — Henry
http://jonathanturley.org/2009/09/16/ohio-death-row-inmate-given-one-week-reprieve-after-officials-fail-to-find-a-vein/#more-14877
A Catholic ,like myself can be for capital punishment and still be a Catholic in good standing. It is not defined as a dogma of the faith and Catholics are able to decide which way they wish to vote on this measure. If you doubt me, call your local diocesan office for clarification, better still search the internet, its’ right their..
rc campbell, your logic and reasoning is flawed. Deterrence is best served when the perpetrator is unable to kill again. People will continue to kill, but once apprehended, they can kill no more. They are deterred in perpetuity…
I have been saying it for awhile that we should let Texas secede because they are an embarassiing stain on the Union. The arrogance that they would rather kill someone than admit an error is stunning. Professor Turley’s comparison to the Nixonian Saturday night Massacre(I think Saturday is the right day) is spot on. The thought of a killing any prisoners is an insult to a civilized society. The thought of killin an innocent man and knowing about it is criminal. Wouldn’t there be a civil rights violation here for the Feds to come after the Texas officials?
Rafflaw, have you been to the Alamo. Have you seen the spot where Davy Crockett, James Bowie and Travis fought to the last man, for Texas Independence. I have been their, I have seen a locket of Davy Crocketts’ hair in a little glass receptacle. When you leave the Alamo in San Antonio, you feel like you have been reborn all over again as an American. I was at Anzio beach Italy last year, same exact feeling, goosebumps the chills and tears. I was humbled and so very grateful..
bill:
No calls are necessary. The way I learned it the RCC is for redemption, not executions.
billy,
have you been to the Alamo. Have you seen the spot where Davy Crockett, James Bowie and Travis fought to the last man, for Texas Independence. I have been their, I have seen a locket of Davy Crocketts’ hair in a little glass receptacle. When you leave the Alamo in San Antonio, you feel like you have been reborn all over again as an American.
********************
Hold on her partner 2 problems with your logic here. 1) The Alamo was moved to the spot that it now rest on:
Brief History:
1718 — The Spanish establish the Mission San Antonio de
Valero, later known as The Alamo.
1719 — The Mission is moved to the east side of the river.
1724 — After a devastating storm, the mission is moved to its
current location a short distance north.
*************
1821 — San Antonio becomes part of the new independent
nation of Mexico.
1836, February 8 — Davy Crockett arrives at the Alamo with a
group of volunteers.
February 23 — The Mexican Army reaches San Antonio
March 2 — Texas’ Declaration of Independence is approved by
delegates meeting at Washington-in-the-Brazos.
March 6 — The attack on the fortified Alamo begins. At the
end, only the women and children and one slave are left alive.
September — Constitution of the Republic of Texas is approved
Sam Houston is elected president.
October — First Congress of the Republic of Texas convenes.
1837 — The burial ashes of the defenders are interred. The
mission stands abandoned as a symbol of the struggle. San
Antonio is incorporated and Baxter County is created.
The second problem with your logic which is flaw is that Texas was it own independent country from 1836 until 1845. It was not until it was annexed by the US in 1845 that US Troops were able to be sent under the direction of General Zachery Taylor that this was allowed to happen.
I don’t normally interfere with bad or even flawed logic but your description of the events surrounding the Alamo is wrong. I will not debate you on Italy and will presume you are correct. But if you want to know any fact about Texas including how the State Capitol was built, how they originally ran the elevators and where is the best place to bend a female page at the state capitol I will share this vast information with you.
FYI, my family was part of the original settlers of Texas. They were originally to come over initially with Moses. But he died and Stephen F. Austin took the helm, so to speak. Also Texas is or was a debtors paradise. Sam Houston was one of the most corruptible and indisputably biggest drunks that help found Texas. Whom left Tennessee to escape debts, if my recollection is correct he owed about 15 thousands dollars in the late 1700′s.
CCD 1, October 1, 2009 at 9:59 pm
bill:
No calls are necessary. The way I learned it the RCC is for redemption, not executions.
***********************
I thought it was that they were cool and burned people at the stake! Damn, I learned something new.
Billy,
I am glad that your facts on the Alamo have already been corrected by AY. The issue here is not whether there are interesting tourist attractions and historical places, but whether Texas will ever join the 21st Century. For the Governor to take steps to prevent the truth from coming out is, in my opinion, criminal. If you are old enough to have lived through the Nixon Saturday Night Massacre, you know what Perry is trying to do. Fortunately for good Texans and the rest of us, he won’t succeed for long.
Lets here it for Richard “Kinky Freedman and The Texas Jew Boys. He does have some irresistible redeeming qualities, though.
I though you’d like this.
Friedman
Billy,
CCD is correct and Catholic Church teachings are not as casual as you are suggesting. Since 1974 the United States Conference of Bishops has called for the end of capital punishment. Google it!
Statement from US Conference of Bishops 2005:
“Ending the death penalty would be one important step away from the culture of death and toward building a culture of life.”
During his 26 years as leader of the Roman Catholic Church, the late Pope John Paul II frequently called for an end to the death penalty. Among his statements on this issue were the following:
“A sign of hope is the increasing recognition that the death of human life must never be taken away, even in case of someone who has done great evil. Modern society has the means of protecting itself, without definitively denying criminals the chance to reform. I renew the appeal I made most recently at Christmas for a consensus to end the death penalty which is both cruel and unnecessary.” (Homily at the Papel Mass in the Trans World Dome, St Louis, Missouri January 27, 1999)
“May the death penalty, an unworthy punishment still used in some countries be abolished throughout the world.” (Prayer at the Papel Mass at Regina Coeli Prison in Rome, July 9, 2000)
AS CCD asked how do you as a practicing Catholic square that away?
When I was in Mexico City a few years ago with “sweet” Carmelita, I had a chance to go to the main museum. Their was a Kentucky Long rifle seized by Santa Anas’ men, after the battle of the Alamo. It was on the wall, I stroked the stock on the “butt”, it gave me the chills. I was quickly reprimanded by a female Mexican security guard. It was the first time I was scolded in Spanish, but not the last. I quickly found out General Antonio Lopez de Santa Anas’ name is mud in Mexico. Nary a staue to be found in any park or plaza,and the Mexicans would bronze a chihuaha just to drink a few cervezas’ around it on a saturday night…
I “square” it away by going to mass on Sunday and recognizing it is not a Dogma of the Church, I just said that, weren’t you listening- uh, correction reading? The death penalty is not a likeable thing, sadly I feel it is necessary..
Senorita, I never said “much” about the history of the Alamo, I said it made me proud to be an american. I never said “it was” its’ own independent country in 184(?) whatever. Lay off the sauce, save it for friday, then “tie it on”..
billy,
You said that it made you proud to be an American by visiting the Alamo? Yes? It was not a part of Texas kinda of like calling Iranian Rugs Persian? It is logically inconsistent. Kinda of like your flip on the Church Dogma. This is one demented debate that I will not be entangled. Now when you fuck with the facts of Texas, I do take exception and will bring you to reality.
But then again you are for executing innocent people as a deterrent or was that detergent?
Billy,
How do you “square” the late Pope John Paul II with your “dogma”?
Billy, by your logic, life without parole should have the same deterrent effect. Plus, if DNA or other evidence exonerates the convict, which happens often these days, he can be released. You can’t bring back the dead.
Billy -
Please don’t speak for Texas. It doesn’t do the state much good, and for that matter much good for Catholicism, either. Stroking the butts of guns and fantasizing about Davy Crokett’s hair just doesn’t do it for me, but whatever sails your boat.
Or in Texas terms, hauls your wagon …
The death penalty, justified as a deterrent to others to refrain from committing heinous crimes, does not work. The war on drugs has had little impact either. To put an innocent man to death for a crime he never committed is morally wrong.
Our justice system, though it may strive to be perfect, is not, and therefore when situations like these occur, it should be a deterrent in itself. Stop allowing the state to kill people. For the simple reason that sometimes the state gets it wrong.
Billy,
I look at the number of people that have been executed in Texas under Bush and Perry and I wonder who else was murdered by the Lone Star State?
I like you “AY”, I do, I don’t get mad, I enjoy the give and take. Your little challenges are kinda “charming” in a goofy way AY. I like you folks goin’ off on me. Look, just go check it out, if you don’t believe me “fine”, what can I say. “Its’ an insane world, but in it, their is one sanity, the loyalty of old friends”. Michelle V. taught me that, to this day, she has a precious place in my heart. She was one of my closest colleagues.. Today I saw an old friend hadn’t seen her in ages. I had fallen “head over heels in love with her”, when we worked together, she is an RN. I was involved at the time “so my hands were tied”, but she became my “ideal representation”. She used too come into my office with these huge “cow eyes”, and her sweet, soft,gentle voice, I was putty in her soft brown hands. I bumped into her at the bank today. I hadn’t seen her since January 08. We had lunch back then at Mimi’s cafe, last time I saw her. Today, when I saw her, all the feelings flooded back, I always looked at her as if she were Audrey Hepburn in the Nun’s Story, she is so beautiful, looking into her dark eyes today was just too much, “then she hugged me”, like she never wanted me to go, my mind hasn’t been right all day, I can’t get Renee out of my mind, I guess I still carry a torch for her, she is now married. Is their anything so sad as unrequited love? Thats’ the bigger question. Answer that question ..
billy,
Unrequited Love, I became the masterstroke with that one.
billy,
This is just for you, used to be my theme song:
Yes, there is a bigger question on this thread. Should an innocent man who may not have been accurately represented in court be put to death?
When he looks at you with those huge cow eyes and says, “I didn’t do this”, and then it turns out he really didn’t do it, is that justice?
That’s a more interesting question.
As a side note, did you tell Michelle V. about stroking the gun-butt in Mexico or about Davy Crokett’s hair changing your life?
If you did, chances are that’s why she married somebody else …
Mojo,
That’s mean. But I like it. Radar Love would be good but Black Betty is better:
Thanks AY, believe me, that made me laugh, and it cheered me up. I hadn’t heard that song, since I was at the “Palomino Club” in North Hollywood, many moons ago. This was a famous “C and W” honky-tonk in the Valley. Clint Eastwood filmed those orangutan, good ol’ boy movies, at the Palomino Club back in the late 70′s…
Mojo you hit me with words “hard as steel”, but it was a damn fine post. Maybe I should go back and rethink my position..
billy,
I was one of the few that has ever gotten kicked out of the hole in the wall in Austin. You have to be fairly bad off before they will take that drastic measure. Bad Off.
Billy -
I like you. You can take a good punch. Ya’ll been to Sixth Street lately? South x Southwest festival is always kickin’ …
Austin City Limits 2009 is this weekend. Dave Matthews stars.
AY -
Caught Matthews in L.A. a number of years ago. I’m a guy, straight and currently single (let’s not mix up that sentence) and so it’s always a good scene even if you’ve never bought an album.
“Hey, cutie, why don’t you ‘Crash Into Me’ …”
Okay, now look who’s gotten OT.
Cameron Todd Willingham: Media meltdown & the death penalty:”Trial by Fire: Did Texas execute an innocent man?”, by David Grann
http://homicidesurvivors.com/2009/10/04/cameron-todd-willingham-media-meltdown–the-death-penalty.aspx
Other articles on the Cameron Todd Willingham case
http://homicidesurvivors.com/categories/Cameron%20Todd%20Willingham.aspx
Dudley Sharp,
Yes, I do believe that they did. And the smirk on that Bastards face. Oh, I was speaking of the Governor, when he was asked about it. His response fire the present board and appoint a new one the day before the press release was released. Makes me wonder.
AY:
The Governor replaced 4 members of the 9 member board. Read my articles at the link I provided as to some alternate reasons he may have made those replacements.
There never can be a cover up.
Texas doesn’t rush executions. On average, it takes about 10.5 years of appeals prior to execution.
Texas has executed nearly 500 murderers since 1973, or less than 1% of their murderers since reintroduction of the death penalty.
This might be of interest, “Texas Judge under fire”, for ruling death penalty unconstitutional; he believes innocent people have been executed!
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/6899748.html
From the NYT 3/5 brief: “A judge in Harris County, which sends more inmates to death row than any other in the nation, has declared the death penalty unconstitutional. State District Judge Kevin Fine, a Democrat, made the ruling Thursday in a capital murder case, saying he could assume that innocent people have been executed. The Texas attorney general, Greg Abbott, offered to help the district attorney appeal it.”
(FYI he was first elected in 2008)