See your problem is that you are so ignorant that you prove my point by your post and don’t even understand the fact that you did. You go to Wiki for a definition of Socialism and Capitalism? This proves you are bandying words about, based on propaganda you believe, as a scare tactic to yourselves and others. Let me make this clear and put it into simple terms you can understand.

Socialism is an economic system where the means of production are controlled by the government and the economy’s operation is planned by that government. Socialism is all encompassing in this respect. Real socialists would look at all the country’s people like you would call socialist and reject them as not being socialist. This is true of even Sweden and Denmark, which your ilk often define as Socialist.

While Capitalism is also an economic theory it has a wider range of iterations than Socialism. In it supposed purest sense, which has never existed in any country, Capitalism is a system where the “free market” determines all economic choices and the government does not interfere with the operations of the supposed “free market.” This has never existed in the US, much less the rest of the world and only has achieved “purity” in the brain of Ayn Rand. Even the theorists of the”free market” Smith and Burke recognized that some government control was necessary to restrain greed and maintain the freedom of the marketplace.

The people you accept propaganda from have redefined socialism to meet their own political needs and have done a sloppy job of it. Just because a government runs various programs does not make the system socialistic. Police and Fire Departments are run by government. so is our judicial system, but beyond that in most major locations the infrastructure is run by government. That is because from the beginning of our country its’ founders, whether from the right or the left recognized that government existed to provide protection for the people and to maintain the country’s infrastructure. For the last thousand years most of the world’s country’s have maintained postal systems because of recognition that this was a government function. No one with any sense of the issue would say that is “socialistic.”

Due to the “Cold War” and the outright lies of the Republican Party all
efforts to have government operate various systems, such as health care, have been labelled socialist” and/or “communist.” This to me is the “bogey man” form of political debate and it is what you were using
in your rather pathetic comment. The silliness was such that I answered you briefly, because you obviously didn’t know what you were talking about and so clearly believe that FOX and Rush are reliable news sources.

To me the stupidest and probably most un-American aspect of the health care debate is the nonsensical belief that it is an attack on business by the people of the Chamber of Commerce. Our industry’s have failed to be able to compete with the rest of the industrialized world because their health care system’s cost have been taken off the backs of business, increasing their profit margin and making them more competitive. This country absolutely needs national health care if we are to compete in the world’s markets. Your propagandists don’t care about America’s business competitiveness and that makes them anti-American. Your FOX news is run by an Australian, who lives in the UK and China, rupert Murdoch. He controls the propaganda that moves you and he could care less about our country. Most of our major corporate entities, like EXXON/Mobil, consider themselves to be international companies and could care less about the success of America. By supporting them blindly and ignorantly, you show yourself to be actually anti-American.

To get back to the original point though Government operation of some aspects of the people’s needs is not socialism or socialistic. It is simply an economic choice, despite what propaganda you believe. Social Security and national health insurance was first supplied in Germany of the 1880′s by Otto Von Bismarck. He was hardly a socialist (as you can Wiki)and truly an arch conservative. His reasoning was that government was obligated to attend to the needs of its people to ensure that the lower classes would be healthy workers.

If you were really the patriot your nickname implies you might try to educate yourself about all of this. You would find from a perusal of history that in this country alone, rather than a “free market” government has used its resources to aid business and actually purposely helped some people become wealthy. Wiki American Railroads and then come back and tell me you’d be against what happened because that was socialistic.

What amuses me most about the people you hang with is that all they try to do is scare people, with words they themselves don’t understand.
Your refusal to acknowledge our President shows that rather than the patriot you style yourself to be, you are really a traitor and a hater of America. My advice to you is that if you don’t like it here you should leave and go to a country that believes in the capitalist free market. Your only problem would be in finding one and despite your ignorance the closest you might get is Russia or China.

You know how to look up subjects on Wikipedia and copy and paste them here. That certainly doesn’t prove that you have an in-depth knowledge of socialism and capitalism.

BTW, are things like farm subsidies socialistic or capitalistic in nature?

All I know is that my elderly mother would probably be destitute now if it weren’t for Social Security. She receives less than fifty dollars a month from her garment workers pension–even though she labored most of her adult life until her retirement.

It was amateur hour at best.

Nice try at scaring the ignorant sheep with the socialism word. Too bad we spend a lot of time disabusing people of the misinformation that socialism is either totalitarian, authoritarian, communism or fascism. Socialism is a blended economy where critical infrastructure – like health care – is run as a public trust for the good of all society – just like maintaing roads. Socialism is neither communism nor free market capitalism – IT IS BOTH.

But you keep trying to skew that the people who want basic social safety systems in place are somehow the bad guys. It all sounds so scary to the uneducated. It’s really funny – especially since you use greed as your justification for being shortsighted and showing slavish religious like devotion to an economic model that is proven manifestly broken.

Mike is going to tie you in knots, sport.

Funny that you accuse me of being ignorant but yet you do not provide a definition of capitalism and socialism to prove that I am ignorant.

A quote from Wikipedia about Socialism:
“Socialism refers to various theories of economic organization advocating public or direct worker ownership and administration of the means of production and allocation of resources, and a society characterized by equal access to resources for all individuals with a method of compensation based on the amount of labor expended.”

Government run health care fits into this category.
Lets not forget Obama saying he wants to, “spread the wealth around”.

A quote from Wikipedia about Capitalism:
“Capitalism is an economic and social system in which capital, the non-labor factors of production (also known as the means of production), is privately controlled;[citation needed] labor, goods and capital are traded in markets; and profits distributed to owners or invested in technologies and industries.”

Mike Spindell please be sure next time to back up your statements before accusing me of being ignorant. You can go back to watching the Obama worshiping Media, believing that he cannot lie or be mistaken.

As Rush Limbaugh said, I hope he fails!

I’m sure I’ll be flamed.

Obviously, a lot of people in here are clearly irresponsible with their own children. No wonder my classrooms have parents that don’t show up at PTA meetings.

They don’t need to learn how to question authority; they just learn to ignore it, just like how you ignore your children’s upbringing.

I suppose someone more reasonable like Keith Olbermann isn’t too bad, huh? I just kind of wonder why Kim Jong Il never made his list of “Worst Person in the World.” You know, that guy that starves his own people.

Let the ridicule begin!

I have not heard of the Machine Heads. I’m not into heavy metal music. I must admit I can rarely make out the lyrics to songs sung by rock bands. Maybe I’m just an old fuddy duddy–only musically speaking, of course!

John–

I often send MYSELF to the dictionary. As someone who writes poetry–not just political verses–I am always trying to be as precise as I can with the language I use. Poetry is such a distilled form of literature–every word counts. English is a rich language. It includes many words that have similar meanings. I do my best to select words with the most precise meanings for the point(s) I am attempting to make when I speak and write.

I learned when I was a teacher that I HAD to be clear and precise with the language I used so that my students would comprehend what I was saying/teaching and would understand my directions.

“While Buckley was of course right to point to Socrates as someone who endorsed the idea that there are absolutes, he missed the most important part of the story. The Greek philosopher was equally convinced that only a fool and a demagogue would claim to know them.”

That’s great writing. Thanks, Buddha for the morning treat!

I hear the calliope too when that clown comes on. I ‘ll read that article. Come to think of it, a calliope is a pretty fair description of Beck:

“A calliope is a musical instrument that produces sound by sending a gas, originally steam or more recently compressed air, through large whistles, …” –Wiki

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/laphams-quarterly/perfecting-the-paranoid-s_b_347037.html

Good Vim. Ever heard of the Machine Heads? I am open to most music and like to read the lyrics (go figure) toooo bad the music is heavy metal. If people would only learn to understand what they read. This reminds me of Led Zeppelins Stairway to Heaven “words have two meanings.”

Machine Head Vim lyrics

Words of the righteous
We will not bend
The odds keep stacking up against
Strengthen our self endurance
Break down the cycle
Of errors past
We have to face up to the truth
Relinquish every grudge or bruise
Every ounce of strength grasps
One solid dream
Violent soul
Will be whole
We have to face up to it
For every second we’re alive
Let our light shine
To our grave, we must pave
A path for us to rise from
Power surge, kills the urge
Life and death collide
Smash all the boundaries
That hold us down
Hold on to everything that loves
Let go of anything that starves
People with envy will hold us down
Freedom is just a cut away
Nothing can pass our life away
Every ounce of strength grasps
One solid dream
Violent soul
Will be whole
We have to face up to it
For every second we’re alive
Let our light shine bright
To our grave, we must pave
A path for us to rise from
Power surge, kills the urge
Life and death collide
We take life’s ebb and flow
Testament to the things we know
With the fight, we must roll
Strength will follow
Tooth and nail for the ground that we hold
Failures from the start but we still grow
Heads held high, rally for throne
Holding our own
Not just words we’ll show you so
I can’t remember
These doubts I must dismember
And trust in whole
Follow your own lightness
Follow your sound
Believe in me
‘Cause I believe in you

“A pompous, porcine bag of gas.
I tell myself—this, too, shall pass.”

For this verse alone I nominate you as Poet Laureate of this blog with all the honors, responsibilities, and distinct duties implied. A laurel crown be on thy head.”

———–

I second that nomination.

“A pompous, porcine bag of gas.
I tell myself—this, too, shall pass.”

For this verse alone I nominate you as Poet Laureate of this blog with all the honors, responsibilities, and distinct duties implied. A laurel crown be on thy head.

Yes, I retired and now have plenty of free time to write–both political verses and children’s poetry.

I wrote some couplets about political pop singers. Following are two of my “two-liners.” They may not be “provoking”…still, I hope you enjoy them.

**********

Glenn Beck & Michele Bachamann

Crazy Glenn harmonizes with a bug-eyed chanteuse—
A duo of right wing musical abuse

**********

Liz Cheney & Pa

The spawn of Lady Macbeth and her snarly fella
Singing torture songs a cappella

nal, good to see that you are speeding up the read. Hail nal, hail nal.

Elaine M,

I would just love another poem. If even more provoking that. Good quality teachers are gone. I see you had said you retired.

I can tell that you are not one to use a word that might send a reader to the dictionary.

I have to admit I do take pleasure in penning some of my political verses.

Buddha–

Thanks for the gold star and the A+. If you were here with me now, you’d see that I’m blushing…because I’m so bashoful

I think it unlikely that hell will freeze over–especially because of global warming. The freezing of the netherworld would be a terrible thing anyway. Where would all of us secular humanists, agnostics, liberals, socialists, atheists, progressives, etc., go to “toast” one another at the end of our lives?

Jeeves, get me my battery-operated fan and a pitcher of mojitos–I’m heading for Hades!

Truly that was art. Concise and with vivid imagery, even Basho would applaud.

You get the A+ and a gold star.

It would be one thing if corporations were content to be left alone. Instead, they use the power of government to create advantages (like taxes and regulation), that favor them. ADM / ethanol mandates. Banks / fractional reserve lending. Pharmaceuticals / FDA barriers to entry. This is not the role of government, and it is not a free market. It’s corporatism.

“[Commercial children's programming] commercializes, homogenizing and rotting children’s minds. See how disney, for instance, now presents Winnie the Pooh. This doesn’t even speak to the fact that children’s commercial programming exists to sell the kids through subtle and not so subtle propaganda.”

I checked with The Count, and he notes that Sesame Street’s 2007 licensing and merchandising revenue was $137M and growing. My guess is that overall commercial sales of Sesame Street products (like Tickle-Me-Elmo), exceed $1B annually. Sounds like commercialism to me.

PBS has actively used its subsidized network channels to seek even more tax dollars! In times when the legislature sought to limit PBS funding, the network actively aired ads to “save public broadcasting!” with legislative contact information.

If taxpayer-subsidized content has such critical value to society, shouldn’t the government begin to buy up other media? Newspapers? Websites? Movie studios?

Thanks for the Dobbs suggestion. I didn’t have him on my list of subjects to “skewer” with verse. He’s had a touch of Beckamania of late.

Mike A.–

I’m glad you’re enjoying my verses. It was Sarah Palin who first inspired my poetic vitriol last fall. I called my poems about her Palinoems. After the election, I stopped writing political light verses for a while until I saw Tom DeLay’s face on the television screen one evening in late February. He got me revved up to wax poetic once again.

I’ll have to leave you with one of my Limbaughrhymes. It’s a terse verse.

A Couplet about Rush Limbaugh

A pompous, porcine bag of gas.
I tell myself—this, too, shall pass.

Having Grandchildre now I’ve had a chance to look at commercial programming for children. It is putrid and puerile. Besides that rather than develop an appreciation of literature and learning, it commercializes, homogenizing and rotting children’s minds. See how disney, for instance, now presents Winnie the Pooh. This doesn’t even speak to the fact that children’s commercial programming exists to sell the kids through subtle and not so subtle propaganda. Part of the dumbing down and fattening up of America stems directly from children’s programming.

Secondly, some of the best adult programming on television is broadcast on PBS. Compare any of the historical documentaries produced by Ken Burns, to the crap on the so-called history channel. A non-commercial broadcast system is essential to the production of programming that uplifts us all, rather than simply being another source of commercial propaganda that is helping to destroy this country. GE for inatance “Brings good Things to Life” sometimes and other times produces the weaponry of death. conservatives must begin to understand that Corporatism is not in the Constitution, nor is commercialism.
That path is the straightest line to tryranny, oppression and loss of freedom.

There ain’t no free market, never was and the belief in it has not only caused much tragedy, but also represents corporate hypocrisy, because they don’t want a free market, just to be left alone to carry on their hideous con game.

A show with the audience of Sesame Street is clearly commercially viable. Why do we need to subsidize it through PBS? Is the educational programming on Nickelodeon subsidized? Noggin?

More broadly, government financing of a network channel invites interference in public affairs programming, including programming on the government itself. PBS content should be privatized, and not promoted by government.

Taxpayers should not subsidize religion through the tax system.

A business offering salvation and canned morality is clearly commercially viable. Why do we need to subsidize it through 501(c)(3) tax exemptions? Is the joy of worshipping sports idols subsidized? Hollywood celebrities?

More broadly, government financing of religion invites interference in public policy, as we have experienced with faith based initiatives and abstinence education. Religion should be treated like any other business, and not promoted by government.

Children who question authority leads to more…liberals.

Elaine;

Clever poem! I look forward to a future one about CNN’s resident lunatic, Lou Dobbs.

Don’t you just love the rantings of the human muppet Glenn Beck? That fellow has gone way past crazy. Here’s a little poem I wrote about him several months ago:

Dead Beckoning: A Poem about Glenn Beck

He’s nuttier than a fruitcake.
He’s as crazy as a loon.
He’s got bats up in his belfry—
And he howls at the moon.

He’s a little low on neurons
And his brain’s stuck in first gear.
This nincompoop Neanderthal
Takes joy spreading fear.

He cries for love of country…
While pondering its doom
With other “prescient” experts
In his fantasized War Room.

He talks about disasters
That might befall our nation
At some dates in the future.
It’s just right wing titillation.

His ratings keep on soaring
And his TV show’s a hit.
Some folks are fascinated
By the rantings of this twit!

He praises folks like Cheney.
Our President? He knocks.
His comrades at the channel—
Chris and Bill O.—think he rocks.

You can watch Beck blaze on cable.
He’s the bright new star at FOX.

Here’s one of Beck’s War Room segments:

I’ll have to get back to you on that.