-Submitted by David Drumm (Nal), Guest Blogger
The World Trade Center cross was discovered in the debris of the collapsed buildings by construction worker Frank Silecchia who declared “it’s an act of God.” The cross was removed from the debris pile, erected on a concrete pedestal, and placed nearby in a prominent position during the years of reconstruction. During the removal, Fr. Brian Jordan, a Roman Catholic Franciscan priest, blessed the cross with holy water. In june, 2002, Archbishop Leonardo Sandri, the Vatican’s third-highest-ranking cleric, and New York’s Cardinal Edward Egan participated in a ceremony at the cross.
Jordan wants the cross to be part of the WTC memorial because most of the victims were Christian and the plurality of those were Catholic, and most of the rescue workers were Catholic.
The efforts of the Catholic Church to promote a random piece of debris to a Catholic icon is a stroke of advertising genius. The media coverage of Jordan’s blessing and the Vatican ceremony is worth millions in free publicity. However, the efforts to include the cross as part of the memorial have failed. The cross will be displayed to a far smaller audience in the museum.
Jordan has been quoted saying the WTC cross “… stands as our symbol of hope, our symbol of faith, our symbol of healing.” The ability of the human mind to associate natural occurrences with familiar objects is called pareidolia. A naturally occurring debris cross, with its simple shape, would not be unexpected. As a matter of fact, several of these debris crosses were found in the rubble.
If the debris cross was a natural occurrence, then its elevation to the level of a Christian icon is a pure fabrication of man, and the motives behind the elevation must be considered. Icons have long played a tangible role in religions whose gods are hidden from our senses. Icons simply highlight the problem of divine hiddenness.
If the debris cross was a supernatural occurrence, then God has the ability to control the physical forces necessary to create and place the cross in the debris field. Therefore, God also had the ability to prevent the 9/11 attacks, and chose not to do so. This leads to questions regarding the presence of evil, which has long posed a problem for Christian apologists, and still does.
At the base of the cross is a plaque saying the cross is “a sign of comfort for all.” It is a sign of discomfort to those who value rationality.
H/T: Pharyngula, Snopes, Snopes, Gotham Gazette, American Atheists, James Croft, The Guardian, 9/11 Memorial.
Thanks nal…. So what ever happened to the potato chip? The toast?….
“Jordan wants the cross to be part of the WTC memorial because most of the victims were Christian and the plurality of those were Catholic, and most of the rescue workers were Catholic.”
It took some seriously tortured logic for Mr Jordan to arrive at that conclusion. Either that or, as I suspect, an even more seriously tortured attempt by the Catholic Church, or at least some of its ardent adherents, to appropriate and usurp the ecumenical memorial for their narrow parochial gain.
If one were to blow up a couple of 100+ story buildings made of steel girders and concrete, the odds of a cross appearing in the wreckage approaches 100%. Increasing the odds are the fact that girders making up a rectangular building are attached to each other at right angles.
If the building were curvilinear, such as some of the ultramodern computer designed buildings under construction, the odds of a symmetrical cross will reduce slightly, but still be high.
And why not a Star of David or Islamic Crescent? Simply because those symbols do not have right-angled intersections. A cross is a very simple design, while both the other symbols are relatively complex.
Had a Star of David and Islamic Crescent with Star in the appropriate relationship appeared, then I would be impressed, if for no other reason that the odds of that happening are slim to none. As I recall, a number of people of those faiths died in those buildings as well, so their memories are just as important to those who loved them as the Christians who died.
I see that someone has made a toaster that burns the logo of the National Rifle Association into toast. If they can do that, I think I might try to come up with one that burns pictures of your favorite deity in your toast. I should make millions if recent auction prices are to be believed.
“Icons have long played a tangible role in religions whose gods are hidden from our senses. Icons simply highlight the problem of divine hiddenness.”
That link goes on to a site that brings up the Fermi Paradox as a comparable supreme “hiddenness”.
However, there are vastly greater examples, such as Heretics Deny The Dark Matter of Faith, concerning a controversy in science over something that has never been touched, felt, heard, tasted, or seen, yet is, like the notion of god, supposed to be everywhere too.
I wonder if anyone has bothered to survey the companies who implode large buildings professionally? We could get the exact number of cross shapes appearing in the steel girders of the building rubble?
You could glut the rusty cross market with those items.
Otteray Scribe 1, December 31, 2011 at 10:03 am
I wonder if anyone has bothered to survey the companies who implode large buildings professionally? We could get the exact number of cross shapes appearing in the steel girders of the building rubble?
You could glut the rusty cross market with those items.
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Indeed, anywhere a post and beam (vert. & horiz. structural members) intersect is a cross.
Cross, schmoss. This is worse: “Heretics Deny The Dark Matter of Faith,” Count me in that camp until something actual is found. Scientists acting like believers give me gas. Ditto small-minded zealots who see divine inspiration in refuse.
“And why not a Star of David or Islamic Crescent? Simply because those symbols do not have right-angled intersections. A cross is a very simple design, while both the other symbols are relatively complex.”
Manufacturing a Star of David starts Part 2 above.
Like rcampbell, I was drawn to this quotation and I find it stupid and insulting. If even one Jew, one Muslim, one Hindu, one Buddhist and or one atheist died in the WTC, then this reasoning is specious and obnoxious:
“Jordan wants the cross to be part of the WTC memorial because most of the victims were Christian and the plurality of those were Catholic, and most of the rescue workers were Catholic.”
However, we know that many of non-Christian faiths did die in the WTC. How does this tragic event merit a calculation of the religions/ethnicities of those who died? Secondly, there is the assumption that many of the Police Officers and Firemen were Catholic, how is that known. The notion of an Irish NYPD and NYFD have passed into history. To resurrect it here does show some bigotry. This is nonsense and a publicity stunt for which the promoters should be ashamed. Whatever religion of the victims, whatever their citizenship status, for surely some non-American died, use of religious symbolism in this context is a desecration and is akin to the beliefs of those who committed this heinous act.
An Hispanic women just called in to let everyone know that it’s not a cross. It’s the Virgin Mary. It’s not as clear as the rust-stained Chicago freeway underpass Virgin Mary, but it’s definitely the Virgin Mary.
HenMan,
I hear its starts snowing and people start drinking in November…
Ah ha, thank you, you remind me it’s 10am.
If there was no image of Jesus on the cross that was found then it was a pronouncement by God that Protestants rule and Catholics drool.
You see … Catholics have the crucifix which is complete with an image of Jesus whereas Protestants believe that an image of Jesus on the Cross makes it a graven image and thus a form of idol worship. Some Protestants also believe that displaying Jesus on the Cross is a statement that the wearer or worshiper does not believe in the Resurrection which, of coarse is the main tenant of Christianity.
(Easter triumphs over Good Friday for those of you who want it simple.) … so Protestants prefer an empty Cross.
However … Christianity has inspired some to create pure beauty, comforting millions down through the ages and as an example I give you the following:
Atheism v. True Religion
The never ending battle between nitwits…
“Whenever I hear that a writer of real ability has demonstrated away the freedom of the human will, the hope of a future life, and the existence of God, I am eager to read the book, for I expect him by his talents to increase my insight into these matters. Already, before having opened it, I am perfectly certain that he has not justified any one of his specific claims; not because I believe that I am in possession of conclusive proofs of these important propositions, but because the transcendental critique, which has disclosed to me all the resources of our pure reason, has completely convinced me that, as reason is incompetent to arrive at affirmative assertions in this field, it is equally unable, indeed even less able, to establish any negative conclusion in regard to these questions. For from what source will the free thinker derive his professed knowledge that there is, for example, no supreme being? This proposition is outside the field of possible experience, and therefore beyond the limits of all human insight.”
http://www.hkbu.edu.hk/~ppp/cpr/dmeth.html
So God gave us a steel cross as a memento to 9-11? Leave it to the far right religious wackos to try to wiggle a way to bring religion into the mix. If there were more Christians in the building, why didn’t the Christian God protect them and just smite down the Jews and Muslims, etc. Of course, according to some Christians, 9-11 was caused by the sins of the gays so God must have been upset at all New Yorkers! ??? Yikes.
A better symbol of the aftermath of September 11, 2001 would be a statue of George W. Bush and Barack Obama applying a match to the U.S. Constitution.
James in LA 1, December 31, 2011 at 10:56 am
Cross, schmoss. This is worse: “Heretics Deny The Dark Matter of Faith,” Count me in that camp until something actual is found. Scientists acting like believers give me gas. Ditto small-minded zealots who see divine inspiration in refuse.
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Obviously you are a fair person, not allowing the labels of “religion” or “science” to blind your wit or intellect.
Good.
But let’s not forget that “everybody has to believe somebody” (Dredd), and “everybody has to serve somebody” (Dylan)
A lot of what I “know” is belief in what someone else says they know. So, truth be known, we are all hybrid scientists / religionists.
The way out of it, IMO, is to question all of it, with all the common sense, wit, analysis, and experience we can muster for ourselves.
Our true friends will be supportive, understanding, and co-conspirators.
“A better symbol of the aftermath of September 11, 2001 would be a statue of George W. Bush and Barack Obama applying a match to the U.S. Constitution.” -HenMan
Yep… HenMan has it right…
Blouise 1, December 31, 2011 at 12:37 pm
If there was no image of Jesus on the cross that was found then it was a pronouncement by God that Protestants rule and Catholics drool.
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LOL.
Working in several areas of both construction and design in the past, if I stopped every time I thought I saw a cross, I’d get nothing done.
“…as reason is incompetent to arrive at affirmative assertions in this field, it is equally unable, indeed even less able, to establish any negative conclusion in regard to these questions.”
Why is reason ” incompetent to arrive at affirmative….(or)…any negative conclusion in regard this question?” Why further would reason be considered “even less able”? Those seem quite self-serving statements for believers to try to frame the conversation but they lack any justification.
It is by applying the simplest of test of reason and thereby completely reasonable for us to conclude that unless and until concrete evidence of the affirmative is provided, it is undeniably unreasonable, illogical and without any imperical basis to arrive at the affirmative. Therefore the negative is the only possible reasoned and reasonable conclusion.
The concept of faith by definition is anethema to fact, reason or logic. Faith defies and ignores logic and reason. That by itself doesn’t make faith a bad thing, but it should not be given consideration on the same level as reason. Faith is far more akin to fantasy or whimsy or desire or wishfulness. These are all fine ways to occasionally spend time and mental energy, but cannot be considered on a par with fact, reason or atheism.
HenMan,
Did not they already do that….
rcampbell,
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. By framing the argument in terms of definition, i.e. equating atheism with rationality and religion with irrationality, all you’ve done is attempt to dodge the point Kant was making regarding the limits of pure reason.
Loosely translated: “A man’s got to know his limitations.”
Not to mention the fact that you’ve resorted to quite a few informal fallacies in your argument as well; e.g. false dichotomy, appeal to ignorance, etc.
Bob,Esq.
Not true: Absence of Evidence Is Evidence of Absence
Bob,Esq.,
Dog-gone it, Bob. If we’re going to have a really meaningful discussion on religion and man and use the edification brought to the subject by persons like Kant … why must it be on New Year’s Eve when I have so damn much work to do?!!
The proper proportioning of happiness to virtue for all moral agents taken with the perjury example Kant used thus trying to lead a moral life and finding oneself faced with a dilemma in which the practical use of reason produces a contradiction in the object of willing … damn good stuff!! And I have no time!
(And then, then we have the self-serving corruption that is the mark of radical evil explained in the light of organized religion … )
I swear, that Nal has more than just a bit of the devil in him!
Happy New Year, darlin’ and I must get back to the kitchen.
Apropos of Henman, Greenwald in Salon has an excellent argument on why the Ron Paul candidacy is important, and it leads to other similar, interesting articles by Matt Stoller and Conor Friedersdorf with an interesting tweet by Katrina Vanden Heuvel.
http://politics.salon.com/2011/12/31/progressives_and_the_ron_paul_fallacies/
Each of these articles takes on directly the newsletters and explains the important failure represented by the newsletters as well as discussing how we’re being fooled by the focus on the newsletters and why.
, “…i.e. equating atheism with rationality and religion with irrationality…”
It isn’t framing. those are facts. I didn’t equate the pairings, the indesputable facts of their definitions do that. Faith is the antithesis of logic and rational thought. It is, therefore irrational and illogical. It does not require and in fact often resists reason (as in the example of the cross-shaped girders found in the rubble of the WTC buildings) and operates aside from, often blissfully devoid of and in opposition to facts. It cannot be compared to logic, reason or a factual analysis of the question. Theists’ attempts to redefine or dislodge the pairings is a disingeuous and futile effort to bring illogical irrational faith to parity with reason. The fact is that saying it doesn’t make it a fact. The above pairings are facts.
Until shown facts to support theism, there is simply no good reason to deliberately engage in that fantasy. We teach our young kids about God, Santa, the tooth fairy and the Easter Bunny and then make them disbelieve all but one of those fantasies. With all the options human history has offered for gods to believe in, when theists figure out the logic of why they rejected all the others, they’ll understand why I reject that last one as well.
AY-
You must be thinking of the aluminum statue of the “Spirit of Justice”, the bare-breasted Art Deco female embodiment of justice. It stood on view in the auditorium of the Department of Justice until it was hidden behind an $8,000 blue curtain during the reign of the hymn-singing Attorney General John Ashcroft. Of course, we all remember the embarrassing incident when AG Ashcroft was discovered apparently fondling the bare aluminum breast. It was later revealed that prankster George W. Bush had told the AG that the breast could be unscrewed by turning it counter-clockwise and that it was filled with M&Ms.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4623239.stm
Nal: “Not true.”
“Absence of Evidence is a condition in which no valid conclusion can be inferred from the mere absence of detection, normally due to doubt in the detection method. Evidence of absence is the successful variation: a conclusion that relies on specific knowledge in conjunction with negative detection to deduce the absence of something. An example of evidence of absence is checking your pockets for spare change and finding nothing but being confident that the search would have found it if it was there.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance#Distinguishing_absence_of_evidence_from_evidence_of_absence
“This proposition is outside the field of possible experience, and therefore beyond the limits of all human insight.”
Blouise,
Happy New Year to you and yours!
“Jordan wants the cross to be part of the WTC memorial because most of the victims were Christian and the plurality of those were Catholic, and most of the rescue workers were Catholic.”
*
People see what they want to see. No doubt had anyone been looking for them there would have been clumps of twisted and battered girders or other debris that did look like a Star of David or a Crescent and Star-like appendage, Vishnu, and I suspect the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Also, I think there was plenty of debris that resembled the classic shape of a ‘dog-bone’, a long central member and stubby cross-members on both ends. One of those would have been a fitting tribute to the canine rescue dogs that have given their lives due to their searching through the debris. Where is their dog-bone debris memorial? Why is no one speaking for the heroic doggies? Oh, the humanity!
Yes, IMO the controversy is just that silly.
——
OS, not only is there a Jesus Toaster but there is a Virgin Mary and an Obama Toaster! All are available on Amazon (but their link sends my posting to moderation). Here is a link that also sells the incomparable peace symbol toaster, pot leaf toaster, dog paw toaster and custom toasters as well as the Jesus and Mary toasters.
http://www.burntimpressions.com/
Lk,
Damn. A day late and a dollar short, as my father used to say.
OS, I know how that is.
“The way out of it, IMO, is to question all of it, with all the common sense, wit, analysis, and experience we can muster for ourselves.”
This is the primary American value. Directive, even. The willingness to set aside what came before because it no longer works — or worse, can be shown to be damaging — is the true measure of character, reflecting our ability to adapt, and adapt well. When we stop asking questions, we halt.
There exists zero sacred atoms in the local universe.
At the base of the cross is a plaque saying the cross is “a sign of comfort for all.” It is a sign of discomfort to those who value rationality.
I disagree with you about ‘rationality”. For those who us who have a religious belief and conviction, many will tell you they have a rational basis for that belief. However, the cross is not a ‘sign of comdort for all” but only for christians. I am so tired of this effort to make christianity the defacto faith.
I happily prefer tolerating the foibles of Christianity to the idiotic ramblings of know-it-all bigots.