Mel Gibson Threatens Defamation Lawsuit Against Joe Eszterhas

The release of a tape taken of Mel Gibson in Costa Rica by the son of screenwriter Joe Eszterhas has prompted a threat of a defamation lawsuit by the actor. Not only did Eszterhas release the tape secretly made by his son during an argument with Gibson, he accused Gibson of not wanting to proceed with the film “The Maccabees” because he hates Jews.

The tirade by Gibson was taped on an iPhone by Eszterhas ‘ 15-year-old son Nick. On the tape, Gibson, 52, is upset that Eszterhas has not moved more quickly on the script for the movie, which tells the story Jewish heroes: “Why don’t I have a first draft of ‘The Maccabees’? What the f**k have you been doing?” Gibson then goes further in attacking Oksana Grigorieva, his ex-girlfriend and mother of his young daughter: “I am earning money for a filthy little c**ksucker who takes advantage of me!”

On its face, it is a bit untoward for a guest to record a host secretly in their home. However, Eszterhas insisted that he released the tape because “Gibson called me a liar. And I also have some reason to believe he’s creating a PR blitz questioning my truthfulness.” While Eszterhas had agreed to do the film with Gibson, he denounced Gibson for “hating Jews” and using “The Maccabees” film project “to deflect continuing charges of anti-Semitism which have dogged you, charges which have crippled your career.” He publicly stated in a letter that “I’ve come to the conclusion that the reason you won’t make ‘The Maccabees’ is the ugliest possible one. You hate Jews.”

A privacy and defamation action would face challenges. Gibson’s claim of an expectation of privacy or that his comments were a protected private fact are undermined by his making the comments to third parties. There was not presumably agreement that such comments would be kept private by the guests.

On defamation, Gibson would collide with the public figure standard requiring a higher level of proof from celebrity to established defamation. The public figure standard was established in Curtis Publishing v. Butts (1967). The case involved a March 23, 1963 edition of The Saturday Evening Post alleging that former University of Georgia football coach Wallace Butts conspired with University of Alabama coach Paul “Bear” Bryant to fix a 1962 football game in Alabama’s favor. In a 5-4 decision, Chief Justice Warren wrote a concurrence that extended the ruling in New York Times v. Sullivan on public officials to public figures. He found the same reasons for applying the higher standard to public officials as present in cases involving public figures:

[I]t is plain that, although they are not subject to the restraints of the political process, “public figures,” like “public officials,” often play an influential role in ordering society. And surely, as a class, these “public figures” have as ready access as “public officials” to mass media of communication, both to influence policy and to counter criticism of their views and activities. Our citizenry has a legitimate and substantial interest in the conduct of such persons, and freedom of the press to engage in uninhibited debate about their involvement in public issues and events is as crucial as it is in the case of “public officials.” The fact that they are not amenable to the restraints of the political process only underscores the legitimate and substantial nature of the interest, since it means that public opinion may be the only instrument by which society can attempt to influence their conduct.

Gibson would need to show actual malice or a reckless disregard of the truth. He would also face truth as a defense with a likely successful effort to admit his prior anti-semitic ravings.

There is the possibility that the taping violated Costa Rican law, but that would involve pursuing a young boy for a criminal charge — not exactly good optics.

For these reasons, this is one dispute that may be better handled outside of court.

136 thoughts on “Mel Gibson Threatens Defamation Lawsuit Against Joe Eszterhas

  1. I keep hoping that Mel & all those who trade on him have finished their 15 minutes so they will move on & leave decent society alone.

  2. Being naive to the subtleties of wiretapping laws, would not the responsibility of the wiretapping transfer in part to the party that made it public?

  3. Not bad for an asswipe that got the holy shit beat out of him on a dock and his reconstructive surgery was paid for by the Catholic Church in Australia……

  4. I suggest a title for the Biography, or perhaps Autobiography:

    ‘I sometimes feel one drink away from whatever makes a dog hump women’s legs’

    (Greg Baxter, author).

  5. I wish he wouldn’t do things like this. He is going to make Ron Paul look bad. Did you see Ron Paul and Mitt are talking about possible endorsements. We need someone like Paul in Washington. He is very smart.

  6. I used to like Gibson before I found out about his and his father’s bigotry. Since then I will not watch anything with him in it.

  7. Glad his wife finally wised up and divorced the anti-semitic womanizing drunk. She got half, and she deserves every penny of it for putting up with him for all those years.

  8. As someone mentioned, I watched Mel Gibson movies until I learned of his hatred of Jews and his fanatic Roman Catholic beliefs. Bye Mel, fade into the sunset!

  9. There’s no guarantee that Gibson hates Jews. He just has a general attitude problem.

    On the other hand, I heard him say several years ago during a television interview that his wife, who gave birth to six of his children, is going to hell because she isn’t a Catholic.

  10. Some people actually deserve the ass whippings that they get. Not every person gets them that deserves them as apparent from some of the things they continually say.

    I would have certainly given Mel an ass whipping. But who knows if she didn’t cause him to drink and taunt him about her extramarital affairs. Seems like some women go out of the way to provoke other people. Too bad they had children together, maybe could have had her skanky ass sent back home, revoke her citizenship if she is even a citizen.

  11. Mel was born in the United States, but his family moved to Australia when he was still in his teens. You can’t deport somebody if they were born here. Nobody else wants your problem.

  12. Wow, must suck to have your life. Not Anonymously Yours, that was directed to you and what other sock puppets you’re using today……

  13. Nasty Mon,

    I don’t know where his wife was born. Doesn’t matter.

    AY, I don’t use sock puppets. Do you?

  14. “While Eszterhas had agreed to do the film with Gibson, he denounced Gibson for “hating Jews” and using “The Maccabees” film project “to deflect continuing charges of anti-Semitism which have dogged you, charges which have crippled your career.” He publicly stated in a letter that “I’ve come to the conclusion that the reason you won’t make ‘The Maccabees’ is the ugliest possible one. You hate Jews.”


    July 30, 2006 (NY Times):

    The sheriff’s report, carried on, a Web site owned by Time Warner, said Mr. Gibson had demanded to know if the officer, James Mee, was a Jew. During an obscenity-laced tirade, according to the report, Mr. Gibson also said “the Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world.”

    TMZ (July 28, 2006): Gibson first told the arresting officer, “My life is over. I’m fucked. Robyn’s going to leave me.” According to the arrest report, Gibson then exploded into an angry tirade at the arresting officer. Gibson climaxed with the words, “Fucking Jews… the Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world.”

    I believe truth is an absolute defense.

  15. Raff,

    I think it’s still the sos…… Just a different day….. It’s the revenge factor…

  16. It is not I. Have the administators check. Have not been a sockpuppet since I was Blouise’s fan last summer when she left for a short while. Somebody should check that “nasty mon” out though. He could be a bad one. I support outing all the sockpuppets but that won’t happen.

  17. I mean administrators. If the sockpuppet situation is not going to get cleaned up and apparently it is not, why bother discussing it? It is getting old.

  18. NAY,

    No I do not…..please do tell me more….


    No need for me to reply to you…. You know what your truth is…. Now, please…. If that was addressed to me…. My response is…So you say….. I did not know you even did that…. Now, have a good day and play nice…..

  19. Yes, the attacks are getting old….. Are you starting again? Please check your motives….. Please do acknowledge that you are attacking…. By innuendo…..

  20. You started it today by saying the sisters were seeking revenge which is hardly the case. If you cast dispersions then suit up and be accountable. I was only defending myself. You did not provide the examples of attack by innuendo that you accused me of.

  21. It’s like watching two children in the back seat poking each other and yelling “Will you stop touching me!”

  22. So you say Swm…. Now go play nice…. Leave me alone….I think I said revenge factor….. Did I say anything about sisterhood…. No…. Now go…. Leave me alone…. I am not the only one not liking your constant attacks…. If that is how you want to live your life….so be it….. Now leave me alone…. Please….got it….

  23. doesn’t it bother anybody that people’s private conversations are being recorded and “released”?
    What about privacy? Nobody can utter anything anymore that is not politically correct, because everybody’s gadget phones are on….?
    I personally say a lot of funky stuff (that’s not politically correct) around people I know…
    The thought of somebody “releasing” what I say terrifies me….

  24. AY,

    No need to feel flattered. You are not being attacked. With due respect, you’re being a bit too defensive.

  25. Gene,

    I did not say you did…. I just said thank you for assisting in stopping this…. If you think I am asking you to curry favors for me…. Think again….. Got it!

  26. junctionshamus 1, April 19, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    … I won’t watch anything with Jane Fonda in it …
    Dennis 1, April 19, 2012 at 3:10 pm

    Me neither.
    The war on women is just another way Mel says “I sometimes feel one drink away from whatever makes a dog hump women’s legs.”

  27. junctionshamus,

    That or, in the words of Bill Cosby’s mother, “The beatings will now begin!” Either one works. Or there is the Hodges Option. I had a biology teacher once named Hodges. He was also the wood shop teacher. Tough fellow. Spent many months as a Japanese POW. He had stories that would make your hair stand straight up. Sharp as a razor. He had a simple solution when kids wouldn’t stop fighting in class. “You two are going out into the wood shop and have it. The first kid who picks up a tool or a piece of wood, I step in and kick your ass. But one thing is for sure: when you two are done, I don’t want to hear anything else about whatever it is you two are carrying on about. Not. A. Word. That, or you can shut the Hell up right now. Which is it going to be? Shop it or shut it?”

    I never saw anyone take the Shop option although I did hear of one instance where it was exercised. And all the kids knew. They knew, “Don’t screw with Mr. Hodges.”

  28. Gene H,

    How about getting your ass wacked with a hack paddle hard enough that it makes you stand up on the balls of your feet. The shop teacher I had didn’t provide any options. Bend over and grab your ankles.

  29. @Dredd – That’s not my war, it’s Mel’s; as he sows, so shall he reap.

    I’ve categorized JF as “Commie, Traitor, Bitch,” way before Mad Max. In the Army, had an old E-8 who worked for MAC-V as a strategic target intel specialist, back in the day. Marked her hotel as a target, which would have also done a damn-damn to VC leadership. Apparently shipyards were the target de jour, and it seemed very strange that this target was so far away from other targets in Hanoi.

    Guess I don’t understand your point about the war on women. Two moms, three sisters and a wife later, still love ’em all.

    Nebbishly yours,


  30. This blog post concerns Mel Gibson and the son of Joe Eszterhas, not Jane Fonda.

    I’ve seen stills from Gibson’s ‘The Passion of the Christ.’
    Mel Gibson is into torture porn. I don’t want to see that stuff. It’s sick.

    Gibson reportedly is anti-Semitic.
    I therefore won’t patronize his work.

    I don’t see what connection Jane Fonda has to this.

    If Jane Fonda did something, or did not do something, forty years ago, you might consider getting over it.
    Reminds me of people who hate Lincoln for the Civil War.
    It’s over.

  31. junctionshamus: “… I won’t watch anything with Jane Fonda in it …”
    Dennis: ” Me neither.”


  32. Bob Kauten: “I’ve seen stills from Gibson’s ‘The Passion of the Christ.’
    Mel Gibson is into torture porn. I don’t want to see that stuff. It’s sick.”

    I thought so also. Portrayed as religious depiction, it just seemed like a moral excuse to watch someone tortured to death.

  33. Bob K.,

    I no longer patronize Gibson’s work either although I have seen “Apocalypto” and “Edge of Darkness” on television and I watched “Passion” over at a friend’s house (you’re right, it’s pretty much torture porn – visually stunning, but obviously made by someone with . . . peculiar interests). I will say it is sad though that such talent was invested in such a broken man as Mel Gibson. He’s a fine actor. “The Edge of Darkness” was well done on his part and its marginalization at the box office was due almost entirely to the episode with the cops. He was even good in “Hamlet”. I also think he’s a not just a fine, but a great, director when he puts his right mind to it. “Apocalypto” was a beautiful film visually that actually worked as a narrative – not an easy feat considering its minimal dialog was all in dead languages. I won’t spend any more money on the man’s projects, but I can’t deny he has talent. I don’t wish him ill either. He’s clearly got demons though. I think he should get help with fighting them for at this point they appear to be at the root of all his professional problems.

    I’m also not suggesting that Joe Eszterhas is doing anything else than using Gibson’s troubles against him out of sour grapes. He’s written some popular movies, but unlike “Apocalypto”, nothing I was say approaches art. He is the guy behind such “great” films as “Jade”, “Showgirls” and “Basic Instinct”. Shakespeare he isn’t. Typical Hollywood opportunist? By every story I’ve ever heard about him, that sounds about right. If he’s pissed about the studio not liking the script, he should have taken it up with the studio. They’re the ones who backed down the project, not Gibson. If his gripes are Gibson has said undeniably anti-Semitic remarks? Or that he and his ex-wife have what at best can be termed as a toxic relationship? He should have thought about that before getting into a business relationship with the man. Afterwards and in the face of studio rejection makes the Esterhaus claim not only seem like closing the barn door after the horse has gotten out, but smacks of pettiness and questionable motivation on his part.

    I’m with the Professor.

    It would be in both parties interests here to shut up in public and settle this in private.

  34. Gee, Bob K, nice of you to drop by… Started by responding to Mike Spindell’s comment from 5 HOURS AGO. This is a thread, flexible; not a rigid “wire”.

    Bob K – You do your non-patronizing your way, and I’ll do it mine. Sounds like you need to get rid of that stick that’s “innuendo”. Chill man…

  35. I would love to see a film about the Maccabees even if it was done by what “Bruno” dubs “Der Fuhrer”, Mel Gibson.

    The Maccabees would probably be a lot like “300” though, in that it was a few against the many. According to Jewish legend, the Maccabees were a group of Priests led by Matisyahu (sound familiar?) and his sons, the foremost of whom was Judah. They rebelled against the Seleucids and their king Antiochus who tried to sell Hellenistic Greek Mythology to the jews and were somewhat successful, as basic Jewish traditions were banned with the punishment being the death penalty. Maccabees to some is a mnemonic or acronym of:


    Hebrew for “Who Is Like You Among the Mighty, Oh Lord!” Meaning that the Maccabees derived their power from their faith in God himself. I think it would be an awesome movie. I’d cast Ian McKellen as Matisyahu and Sam Worthington as a kick-ass Judah.

  36. commoner,

    I agree. The story itself would make a great film. I even like your casting suggestions although I’d add Brian Cox as Antiochus (although I think you could swap him and McKellen around and it would still work).

  37. raff,

    Cheddar is a classic too. :D

    Don’t get me wrong, I appreaciate a cheesey film. I can even appreciate formulaic films if they are well made. It’s that second category into which I place “Basic Instinct”. It was pure formula. Well put together and marketed, even a bit of a guility pleasure to watch, but it wasn’t cinema as art. “Showgirls”, on the other hand, would have made a fine sandwich served with tomato soup.

  38. junctionshamus,

    Thanks for the welcome! Yes, I do respond to anything I want on these threads, whether they’re 5 HOURS AGO or 3 MONTHS AGO. Got a problem with that, honey? Has your opinion changed, since then?

    I can’t address your innuendo remark until I can get it translated. Was that some attempt at hostility?

    I’m perfectly frosty, thanks for the wishes.

  39. “I agree. The story itself would make a great film. I even like your casting suggestions although I’d add Brian Cox as Antiochus (although I think you could swap him and McKellen around and it would still work).”

    Gene that is an awesome choice for Antiochus. However I think that Ian does the mystical bit better. Hannukah and the Maccabees are mad popular even with irreligious and non-affiliated Jews. I think that the fact that Hannukah falls around Christmas has a lot to do with that. I also think it would be a box office hit.

  40. Gene,

    If you think that I am in need of you to defend me think again. If I think you should ought to enforce civility that you preach about on this blog, you’re damn right.

    Look let’s be honest, I know where you loyalties lay. I don’t really care, except when I am unjustifiably attacked and then you tweak my nipple…. I hope I am clear about this.

    Swm has one purpose on here and that is to run me off…. I have enough Irish, German and Jew in me to not let that happen….

    I hope that this is clear enough for you to understand…..

  41. Gene H,

    I liked the skirt scene. And the song to Mr. President. Is that why two of the Kennedy brothers ended up dead? Why wasn’t Daryl Hannay good enough? Is that why John-John crashed his plane into the ocean?

  42. Dredd: The comment about dogs humping women’s legs is a bit of an afront. One of the dogs in the pack got intellectual about it and says that most dogs hump womens’ legs because they get rewarded with dog biscuits. But, he says he was reading this blog yesterday and that latin stuff that the Judge said about dicta and so he says that any person’s opinion about why a dog would hump a female human’s leg is merely dicta.

  43. TalkinDog I am actively trying to adopt a dog before law school. I will probably study most of the day at home so I will have plenty of time to be around my dog. I went to the Humane Society and looked at a gorgeous Husky, but he was too rambunctious. He ran full tilt around the yard there around 100 times conservatively. He is an awesome dog but I need a boy or girl that is lower energy. I am still looking for a nice calm Mastiff. What other breeds tend to be calmer?

  44. AY You are the one that invited me to this blog as you do many people.The rest have not been crazy enough to take you up on it. ha!ha! At that time you were having a problem with Patty C. and I got involved in that. That probably was a mistake. My being on this blog has nothing to do with running you off. The blog would probably be too dull without you. I don’t know why Gene singled us out as “children” when there is more than enough conflict on this blog without us.

  45. SWM,

    I’m crazy enough to take you up on it. What kind of dogs did your daughter get in law school? And why do you have the dogs?

  46. AY,

    You’ve mistaken me for somebody who cares. The above description comparing you two to kids in the back seat is perfectly accurate. If you don’t like the consequences of that? Stop it. However, if you think I’m upset if your widdle feelin’s got hurt? You’d be wrong. I have my reasons and you gave them to me. As to “my side”? The only side I’m on is mine in re the issue of you staying. My side says it is 100% indifferent to whether you stay or not.

  47. “commoner, My daughter got two dogs in law school and I have both of them.”

    Lol. Why? I know people in law school who have pooches. Did your daughter get a job that did not allow her to keep the dogs?

  48. Gene,

    You mistake me for someone that cares what you have to offer. You sell what you sell and that’s that. Now, as your words resonate, Piss Off….

    My feelings have nothing to do with this. Your behavior has everything to do with it. You can not see your own behavior is very offensive… Looking at how you speak to bron and others you disagree with….. I am not at all surprised you responded this way…..

  49. The first one was a yorkie mix hybrid that turned out to be too high maintenance for a law student. The dog suffered from separation anxiety when left alone and became very noisy so I took the dog. This year she adopted a rescue dog, a poodle mix ,that was lower mainteneance. That was working out okay until the landlady decided that no pets would be allowed in the house. I adopted that one, too. My old dog died last fall and the newer one helped fill that void. See things work out, NYA

  50. AY,

    indifferent \in-ˈdi-fərnt, -f(ə-)rənt\, adj.,

    1: marked by impartiality : unbiased
    2a : that does not matter one way or the other b : of no importance or value one way or the other
    3a : marked by no special liking for or dislike of something b : marked by a lack of interest, enthusiasm, or concern for something : apathetic

    Is it starting to get through to you yet? If so, good for you. If not, I really don’t care. However, I will add that it was you trying to pull people into your lil’ dramas that earned you my indifference in the first place, so good show Mr. “Can You Delete Those Comments For Me”. That you would do so again is simply par for your course. I truly don’t care what you do. Stay, leave, explode and go straight up. Whatever.

  51. Gene,

    What part of piss off did you miss? Apparently you don’t have the ability to comprehend ….. You stuck your nose in again where it was not asked for or appreciated….. I thanked you and you responded in your most usual snotty child like attention seeking tantrum….response….. See it over and over…

    New comers are in awe… asked for my help in becoming a guest Blogger….. You were not a choice….i went to bat for you…. As well as some others…. It ran a few other regular posters off….

    Then came the other issues…… Yes I asked for your assistants in deleting derogatory information placed out there not by me….. Who created that drama? Like I said, piss off…. Good luck……

    The night is still young… You have bron still to abuse….. I’m going back to bed…..

  52. You know who is or is not posting under a variation of my nom de plume…. Would I expect a man that says he wants civility on this blog to check into such a thing? Apparently, these concepts are transitory for you at best….. Better get back to that book you’re writing….hopefully you can…..

  53. OK, what’s a sock puppet?

    OK, aside from that, I’m going to relay a story I got second-hand from an Orthodox Jew before she was Orthodox, and I’m going to tell it because there may be something in it.

    Apparently the Chanukah story came from a time when there was a big political struggle going on. Jews who were “Hellenized” were infighting with the Jews who were xenophobic (a characteristic tendency of both the Greeks and the Jews, probably until present times, but definitely then). The anti-Hellenized Jews were basically led, politically, by the Maccabees. They decided that the Hellenized Jews were unfit, and wouldn’t let them get into the Temple or make their sacrifices. The Hellenized Jews appealed to Antiochus for back-up and he gave it. So the two groups squared off against each other with the Greek forces backing up the more religiously “liberal” Hellenized Jews. And the Maccabees won.

    ANyway, that’s what I heard.

    Now as to Mel Gibson, CHECK on the torture porn verdict of “THE PASSION.” Absolutely disgusting to anybody who can enjoy sex without watching somebody get hurt and killed. Ugh. I can’t say enough bad about it except, of course, that it appeared to have been written by a disturbed high school student who needed to be on meds.

    But the funniest thing about Mel is that he can’t seem to keep his big mouth shut. EVERYBODY RECORDS HIM. This is not the first damn time. Why can’t he learn to shut up at times when it is pretty obvious that the tape is running? He’s so dumb, so crazy, so creepy, so so so so so.

    And what’s Jane Fonda got to do with it?

    Yeah, and what’s a sock puppet?

  54. Malisha:
    The Wikipedia definition sums it up nicely:

    “A sockpuppet is an online identity used for purposes of deception. The term—a reference to the manipulation of a simple hand puppet made from a sock—originally referred to a false identity assumed by a member of an internet community who spoke to, or about himself while pretending to be another person. The term now includes other uses of misleading online identities, such as those created to praise, defend or support a third party or organization. A significant difference between the use of a pseudonym and the creation of a sockpuppet is that the sockpuppet poses as an independent third-party unaffiliated with the puppeteer.”


  55. I absolutely love Jane Fonda, one of America’s finest actresses and one who got America’s War on Southeast Asia absolutely correct. — like millions of us worldwide. Many of us Vietnam Vets considered her one of the great babes of all time in Barbarella, and I can still remember the public outrage that ensued when the TV networks cut into a re-run of Cat Ballou to show yet another — like the second — astronaut voyage to the moon.

    Anyone who looks at an actor or actress onscreen and sees the political demon of their worst anal fetishes doesn’t know how to watch or evaluate films. Personally, I can watch some of Mel Gibson’s films because he makes his character come to life onscreen. In films where he doesn’t do this so well, I criticize his poor acting, or the lousy script, or incompetent directing, with no concerns whatsoever for his political or religious or marital views.

    For Jane Fonda, though, I love both her ability as an actress and her anti-war political views, although I keep them distinct from one another and evaluate each according to its separate merits.

    As for the North Vietnamese and NLF forces who never attacked America, they had every right to shoot down American planes that violated their airspace raining death and destruction down upon them. Americans killed something like three million Vietnamese, Laotians, and Cambodians for no defensible reason whatsoever, but few prominent Americans other than Jane Fonda had the nerve to speak out against that bloody barbarism when it really counted. Again, nothing to do with her acting, but kudos for getting it right about needless war and inspiring others to eventually get it right as well.

    I don’t know if Mel Gibson has a case for defamation here, but even if he does, a jury could still do the QBVII thing and award him damages in the amount of a penny, “the lowest coin in the realm.” Sometimes even the law can see to it that people get a little of what they want and a lot of what they deserve.

  56. You are a bunch of pussies in here. You DON’T tape a man in his own HOME and make it public under ANY circumstances.

  57. Gyges,

    The Clash do indeed rock.



    Your help? That’s pretty funny. What’s not funny is you are apparently having some kind of break down. Over the last few weeks you’ve become increasingly paranoid and you see forces aligned against you that simply don’t exist. I may not be your friend anymore, but that was your doing. My indifference doesn’t include wishing you ill. Seek help.

  58. So true, Noah. And non-bloggers as well. Or in the words of Devo: “Freedom of Choice, it’s what you want, Freedom from Choice, it’s what you got.” Thinking is easy when you let someone else do it for you.

  59. In 1978, a movie about the Vietnam War, Coming Home, garnered eight academy award nominations and won three — including best actress (Jane Fonda) and best actor (John Voight).

    In 2002, Mel Gibson starred in a movie about Vietnam, We were Soldiers. I don’t think it garnered a single academy award in any category.

    That doesn’t mean that Mel Gibson did an especially bad job of acting, but rather, that Jane Fonda did an exceptionally good job of it. She often does.

    I didn’t see either movie, because I saw all that I wanted to see of Vietnam and never want to see any more of it ever again. Subsequent to my own peripheral part in the tragic farce, I went on to read a great deal about the War and its origins in cynical French colonialism and America’s hysterical anti-communism — neither of which held any interest for the Vietnamese. I once heard Oliver Stone (a Vietnam Veteran) say that he made three movies about Vietnam and not a one of them had the slightest impact on maniacal American militarism. Good acting or film making aside, the government and electorate of America do not seem disposed to learn anything of value from war. For them, war has long since become no more real than the moving images and background music coming at them from off of a motion picture or television screen. After the popcorn, back to whatever else …

    President George W. Bush and his Rasputin Vice President Dick Cheney, on the other hand, just had to demonstrate to the entire world that they didn’t give a shit about what had happened to so many of us Vietnam Veterans. They couldn’t wait to initiate two more of these needless debacles for the vicarious enjoyment of REMFs like themselves. They even staged their own b-list productions of “Top Gun” Dubya landing on an aircraft carrier or serving fake plastic turkey to the troops on Thanksgiving in Iraq. Can’t blame Mel Gibson or Jane Fonda for that consummate cinema crap. At any rate, when Deputy Dubya finally got around to visiting North Vietnam on November 17, 2006, I couldn’t help commenting on the idiotic irony of it all with Hanoi Haiku.

  60. But also, Mel does a LOT of unpublicized work for charities. That means not just throwing cash at the problem but personally participating, especially with developmentally ill kids who have NO idea who he is. He’s just doing it as a person. There’s two sides to every story.

  61. Gene,

    Do you need a copy of an email addressed to the professor? How soon do you forget… Maybe that’s your problem, maybe you’re the one having the break down….. But it is what it is….. You see what you want…. Now that’s your reality…..famous words…. Piss Off….

  62. Gene,

    I am not surprised…… You deleted the post….. If verifiable truth is an issue on this site then maybe it should be renamed jonathanturleyredacted.Org…….

    I recounted the emails that you sent to the professor and his response. They total three. If my email outbox is correct, I sent one at your request. If you recall, there were numerous folks that did not want you as a guest Blogger because you’d have access to private personal information…… If I recall, FFLEO was one of them…… I think he quit coming here because of his disagreement with your censorship of a guy by the name of martin this last summer….

    There is nothing revealed here that cannot be proved…..please look at your post as a guest writer……

  63. Gene,

    I fully support your right to be a guest Blogger….. As I did then and do now…. I can separate personal feelings from facts….. You as a guest writer and blogger have a higher duty of civility on this blog….. Your name calling of individual bloggers is really inappropriate…..

    I do not think that you should be allowed access to people’s private information…… I think the guest writers should only be allowed to write, not edit others posts, unless it is equally enforced…… And then only if the professor says so…..

  64. So I got up this morning, and thought I had the worst dream. Gene, you were there, and AY, and someone called NAY, and SwM, you all were there.

    I woke up, and “CRIKEY!” it wasn’t a dream after all. I wish everyone a good weekend; blow off some steam in the yard, on the bike, on the tesnnis court, whatever. Give yourselves a rest. Everyone, and I mean EH-VER-EE-WUN, has earned it.

    And Mel, love him or hate him, love his work or hate his work, Ditto for Jane or fox terriers. Their lives will go on as if were weren’t there, especially those terriers, minds of their own, and possessed by the Devil I tell you.

    Bless you all, especially those I’ve disagreed with. Interesting how we can agree on somethings, and be disagreeable on others. We’re human beings.

    I’m not much into conspiracy theories, but if I were, I’d wonder if the good prof was actually Commander FUBAR from the planet Yelrut using us as an analytical experiment in social interaction??

    Let’s live to fight another day!


  65. Gene,

    I am not surprised…… You deleted the post….. If verifiable truth is an issue on this site then maybe it should be renamed jonathanturleyredacted.Org…….

    I recounted the emails that you sent to the professor and his response. They total three. If my email outbox is correct, I sent one at your request. If you recall, there were numerous folks that did not want you as a guest Blogger because you’d have access to private personal information…… If I recall, FFLEO was one of them…… I think he quit coming here because of his disagreement with your censorship of a guy by the name of martin this last summer….

    There is nothing revealed here that cannot be proved…..please look at your post as a guest writer……

  66. Do it again. I’ll be glad to have a discussion about people using sockpuppets in a threatening manner concerning other posters private information.

  67. So Gene,

    Threats or promises….. I don’t really care….I wonder how the professor is taking you deleting posts that you disagree with? Yes, you have the power to do it at this time…..I thought you’ve said that it’s the professors blog….. Now, I know it’s not…m

  68. Bob,

    Good commentary. The fox terrier analogy was meant to be humorous. The little guys are fierce, but they aren’t mean. They’re also very protective.

  69. AY,

    I’m not deleting them. I’m keeping them for discussion purposes. Just like I’ve kept a lot of other pertinent information from other posters and elsewhere. This is the Professor’s blog and he’s the one who created the anonymous posting policy which all of the guest bloggers studiously uphold. No one’s public identity is revealed here if they wish to post anonymously and we don’t let others out posters either should they have reason to know an anonymous person’s true identity. In your case though, complaints have already been made in that regard and a record of those complaints kept. You may think you want to butt heads with me on this issue, but I can assure you that you really don’t.

    How you take that bit of advice is up to you.

  70. Well Gene,

    There no anonymous posts this fine day….. So why aren’t they waiting in moderation…..

  71. So Gene,

    If you don’t have a problem with folks posting under similar names….. Then what if someone started posting under Not Gene H, or Gene H2 or Gene H3…… would you have a problem…..

  72. Joe Esterhas and son – Shameful of you!!! Despite Mel’s behavior, what the two of you did is certainly not a Catholic/Christian act. My opinion of you, Joe, just went BACK into the toilet. Have you REALLY “seen the light?” Or are you a hypocrite? Shall we call you Joe…or Judas? You are a big disappointment…

  73. I’m just curious. Is this never-ending discussion of who’s-using-what-name going to be confined to this thread?

    Or will the rest of Professor Turley’s postings be contaminated, as well?

    My real name is Bob Kauten. You could consider just using your actual name, and take whatever lumps come from that.

    Too simple?

  74. Well Bob,

    You are more than welcome to use that…… Deal? I won’t post under Not Bob Kauten…..

  75. Hmm…. Comments still waiting moderation…… No links….. So that’s not the problem….they are truthful…. They don’t reveal personal information….. Hmmmm…… I wonder…. They are being censored….. That’s okay… They are saved…. We will see if they disappear….and if they do…. I have back ups…..

  76. Bob,
    It does get old. Arguments of substance are fine, but this thread has been sidetracked over very little of substance and much silly bickering. And these remarks are directed at more than one. Please enough already.

  77. Are we going to take them out of moderation today? Are is this what FFLEO warned us about? Censorship……..

  78. AY,

    Your veiled threats to other posters are still under review. If you have a problem with that, you know who to contact and how.

  79. Gene,

    There is nothing that is waiting moderation that is a veiled threat….. Now is there…..

  80. A threat is in the eyes of the threatened. You should know that. You know the policies of this blog concerning poster anonymity. This isn’t the first time you’ve pushed around the borders of its limits. What you need to do is . . . stop it.

    Do you understand what I am saying to you?

  81. So you can bully anyone you want gene? Not like that hasn’t happened before…. I do not think that I have revealed anyone’s personal information…… I stand by that…..

  82. Stand by what you want. The issue is threats to reveal personal information of other posters by intimation, AY. The bullying going on here is being done by you and it has been persistent and long term in one case. This matter is still under review. Again, if you have a problem with that, you know who to contact and how. Feel free to keep commenting in the mean time. Just respect the very few rules there are here. However, you need to consider what I’ve said concerning your past actions in re other posters.

  83. Gene,

    Have you read the history of Russia…… How Stalin came to power and what he did to those after he gained the supremacy over the people of Russia…… It’s an interesting read….

  84. Question for all you long-time listeners and non-frist time callers: Not counting this post, 130 posts on this thread; how does it rank in responses, and what were the three top threads?

  85. junctionshamus,

    Well, I can kind of answer that question and I say kinda because of the way WordPress tracks data (it only keeps stats for the last 1000 comments.).

    The most commented thread of all time/to date is this one: with 2,110 comments. To my knowledge it is the only thread to ever break 2,000 comments. I only know about this one because I have reason to know about this one.

    The next two probably fall in the 1800-1500 comments range (I’ve seen quite a few threads in that range) but I can’t give you specific links to a #2 or #3. Our current “number two” (being tracked as number one) is with 1,348. I recall Nal having a post sometime in the very recent past that was somewhere around the 1,800 mark but I’m drawing a blank on the title and subject. The next closest is ranking 819 comments at the moment.

    130 isn’t even a blip on the Top 10 radar, let alone the Top 3. Most threads currently generate less than 300 comments. The majority I would say.

    Beyond that, most “good” threads generate between 300-1000 comments. An “excellent” thread is what I’d call anything with over 1,000 comments. Their have historically been quite a few, but unless you manually stumble across them, there is no way to track them from WordPress.

    I hope that answers your question.

    Your mileage may vary.

  86. @ Gene H – Thank you very much. A pleasant remainder of the weekend to you. As for me, my father-in-law arrives tomorrow. My wife is in good spirits so I won’t get the “stink-eye” (this time)…

  87. You are most welcome and same to you, junctionshamus. May your stink eye be minimal. They say you have to love the in-laws, but unless they are referring to the Peter Falk/Alan Arkin film, I can’t for the life me of think why. :mrgreen: And who are these “they” people anyway? Whoever they are, I hope they don’t interfere with you having a pleasant remainder of your weekend as well.

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