By Mark Esposito, Guest Blogger
Well, Sally Field must be aghast. How could even her bird’s-eye view have predicted the over the top report from the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith? Once the province of current Pope Benedict, the watchdog of orthodoxy that took such a hands-off approach to the child sexual molestation within the priesthood, has issued a stinging reprimand to all American nuns for “certain radical feminist themes incompatible with the Catholic faith.”
Headed by American Cardinal William Levada, the crowd that gave us the Inquisition and who tried Galileo, has ordered a crackdown on all U.S. nuns. Overseen by three middle-aged white men American bishops, the Vatican wants the good sisters to toe the Vatican’s increasingly fundamentalist line. And what was the doctrinal crime that got the nuns in trouble? Why, their apparent heretical support for such outlandish positions as supporting universal health care under Obama’s plan, sensitivity to marriage rights for gays, and –God forbid it — advocating females for admission to the priesthood. They are even under scrutiny for praying for Girl Scouts.
As with other tone-deaf proclamations by the RCC, this one has produced an outpouring of support for a group of dedicated women whose average age is 69. There are about 75,000 nuns in the US — down from their heyday in 1965 when the ranks numbered about 180,000. Still this feisty few aren’t taking the recrimination sitting down.
The Leadership Conference of Women Religious, which serves as the umbrella group for most orders of nuns, has responded with a duly obsequious statement but armed with enough teeth in it to get attention from the beanie wearing gang in Rome. ”Board members concluded that the assessment was based on unsubstantiated accusations and the result of a flawed process that lacked transparency,” the group said after a three-day meeting. “Moreover, the sanctions imposed were disproportionate to the concerns raised and could compromise their ability to fulfill their mission.”
Conference of Catholic Bishops who supports the Vatican’s move. Archbishop Peter Sartain of Seattle, who was appointed by the Vatican to supervise reform of the nuns’ group took pains to praise American nuns as a “great gift.” He added that he hoped to work with them “in a way that shows our continued love and support for their extraordinary contribution.”
@Turley: “…the Vatican wants the good sisters to tow the Vatican’s increasingly fundamentalist line.”
…or to toe the line, but either way, it’s a heavy lift! ;-}
And these are the men who now are able to manipulate government and social policy while at the same time ignoring our laws and taking millions if not billions of tax payers dollars.
To them heresy is nothing more than disagreeing with them particularly if it involves the poor and women. Nuns have been the workers in Christ’s vineyard ministering to the young, the old, the poor and those without a voice. They have emulated Christ in ways that the Bishops never ever think of but they are the problem in the Church.
The Bishops would do well to remember: whatever you do to the least of these you do to me. Jesus Christ, it seems be a heretic in his own Church.
The Sisters deserve praise and support; the Bishops well that is for someone else to decide.
Oops! Sorry, Professor! Mark, put your hands out for a hard whack with Sister Immolata Excruciata’s ruler!!
http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/zari1480/PopeNuns
Sorry — hope this connects properly: http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/zari1480/PopeNuns.gif
mespo,
“Older Americans, especially, may think of nuns as pious schoolteachers, but “times have changed and so have the sisters,” intoned Russell Shaw…”
Good! It’s about time! I’m glad the nuns are speaking out. I also attended parochial schools. I, too, saw nuns act like priests were demigods. The RCC is a sexist religion–like so many other religions. Women are regarded as second class citizens by the church.
The RCC Definition of Radical Feminist: An intelligent religious woman with a mind of her own who disagrees with the church hierarchy/policies and dares to speak out.
The ex-Hitler Youth member who has become Pope is doing the RCC much more harm than good. Just as he in his prior role worked to cover up the pedophilia of some priests, he is trying to rein in the truly moral stances taken by women of deep faith and commitment. While Popes past, like John Roncalli, work to bring the Church into a solid moral place in the world, this Pope is trying to return his Church to the days of its’ medieval sovereignty. It is why there is a downward trend in attendance/membership and why most American Catholics use birth control.
I was educated by nuns for twelve years. Some were fiercely independent Irish women. My youngest sister is still in contact with some of them.
I know a nun who runs a community that is supportive to mothers, pregnant women, battered wives seeking emotional and religious shelter from the “aftermaths” of their abuse, etc. etc. Even patriarchal churches with enormous coercive power can’t keep the independent intelligence and feminine energy of some good women down.
Yesterday, I was watching a documentary about WW-II on the Military Channel. There was a long segment about the Hitler Youth. Much of the footage was from German propaganda and captured film. Many shots of young men engaging in all kinds of military and paramilitary activities as well as sports. As I watched, I wondered if the future Pope was one of those kids shown in the documentary. The boys were clearly being indoctrinated heavily and it showed them swearing lifetime allegiance to Hitler and the Nazi party. Watching them give the Nazi salute in unison was chilling. That is where this Pope came from.
As far as I am concerned, he has as about as much political and moral credibility as Karl Rove.
“Joseph Alois Ratzinger was born on 16 April, Holy Saturday, 1927 at 11 Schulstrasse, his parents’ home in Marktl am Inn, Bavaria and baptised on the same day. He was the third and youngest child of Joseph Ratzinger, Sr., a police officer, and his wife, Maria (née Peintner), whose family were from South Tyrol. His father served in both the Bavarian State Police (Landespolizei) and the German national Regular Police (Ordnungspolizei) before retiring in 1937 to the town of Traunstein. The Sunday Times described the older Ratzinger as “an anti-Nazi whose attempts to rein in Hitler’s Brown Shirts forced the family to move several times.” [1] According to the International Herald Tribune, these relocations were directly related to Joseph Ratzinger, Sr.’s continued resistance to Nazism, which resulted in demotions and transfers.[2] The pope’s brother Georg said: “Our father was a bitter enemy of Nazism because he believed it was in conflict with our faith”. [3] The family had a sadder encounter with the Nazi regime, because of its euthanasia program for the handicapped. John Allen, a Ratzinger biographer, reports a revelation made by Cardinal Ratzinger at a conference in the Vatican on 28 November 1996: “Ratzinger had a cousin with Down’s Syndrome who in 1941 was 14 years old. This cousin was just a few months younger than Ratzinger and was taken away by the Nazi authorities for “therapy” Not long afterwards, the family received word that he was dead, presumably one of the ‘undesirables’ eliminated during that time.” [4] wikipedia
Ya gotta love these old men Vatican crows so predictably out of touch with anything beyond the 15th century. American nuns will do as so many other Americans have done when confronted with one of these robe-flapping throwbacks … life is simpler when you plow around the stump.
SwM,
That Wikipedia article is interesting. I am sure it has not been vetted, edited and spun by Vatican spinmeisters. Not!
OS, When he was elected pope, I was very curious about his backround so I did a little research and found information that was compatible with the wiki article.
OS, The 1968 protests changed him and turned him sharply rightward.
Great article Mark. I had the good Benedictine Nuns in grade school and with class sizes from 45-55 we actually learned a few things. One of the things I learned was that the Nuns were the liberals of the RCC and were housed in facilities much less opulent than the parish priests, to say the least. The Pope and the Church is going to learn a hard lesson, eventually. That the people will not be pulled to the far right along with the Pope and his far right henchmen Cardinals.
That’s funny. I haven’t heard someone use the term “great gift” when they meant “huge pain in our 14th Century male chauvinist asses” before. The endless variety of euphemistic language never ceases to entertain.
Mark,
Are you the Mark I differed on as to religions place visavis mankind. In which case let me add that it was a fine ointment for the worried flock.
Here you are at the forefront on religious questions again. Supporting nuns. A worthy cause.
Funny how it reminded me of the married women who also face such moral dilemmas as to time and resources
available to them. In the interest of moderation will not say more as to priests and church structure.
If Mary Magdalena had only had better support, would we have had a better church today? I believe so.
As for Sweden, we have women priests, soon 50 per cent.
And some bishops too. Waiting for our first archbishop.
I rec’d a video from a fb friend that was an issue ad for the RCC.
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=D9vQt6IXXaM&hd
Go, Nuns!
Idealist, “If Mary Magdalena had only had better support, would we have had a better church today? I believe so.”
I don’t. Just as Jesus was “spun” and represented by Paul et al. so that he became all but unrecognizable, Mary M would have become a brand for — oh I don’t know — maybe something like Sarah Palin. At least.
Malisha,
Perhaps, but you cannot argue that Paul and the Paulines weren’t about organization and the perpetuation of organization from the day the nails were driven. Their often selective and biased interpretations of the teachings of Christ lent itself to that behavior. The Gospel of Mary is part of the Gnostic tradition. The Gnostic interpretations of the teachings of Jesus (some of which are likely far more contemporary and accurate than the Pauline gospels in that regard) paint a picture where God is found within us all – similar to the teachings of Buddha – and the church as an organization is of secondary importance to religious “salvation” and not really required to benefit from the teachings of Christ. Given this, see the history of Buddhism. Bad things have been done in the name of organized Buddhism, but in contrast with organized Christianity? The damage done to societies “in the Name of Buddha” versus “in the Name of Christ” is small. Some bad would have come from any resultant organization to be sure, but in this instance, I think id707 is not completely off base about the nature of “the Church” possibly being substantially less malevolent under a Gnostic influence than they have been under the Pauline (slash Constantine) influence.
From blawg posting: “(Query: Why does the Vatican need an embassy?) to register their dismay at the slightly misogynistic message implicit in the church’s smack-down.”
****
Because the Vatican City State is a sovereign state, a country within a country that has embassies and diplomatic relations with about 180 other countries. The Holy See, the governing body and administrative heart of the Catholic Church, is an administrative arm of the Vatican City State.
I think it odd that a foreign government is allowed to work, through its primary religious sub-division, to influence our countries policies and politics as much as the Vatican City State is so allowed. When the Vatican spirits away offending priests to its State (as it has done in the recent past) and refused to return them for charges and trial, this is the decision of a sovereign State. When our politicians proclaim their loyalty and fealty to The Church- agree that they are advancing Church goals- they are actually claiming loyalty and fealty to another country and government IMO, and it should disqualify them for office.
Very interesting take on that, LK.
I like it.
“The Gnostic interpretations of the teachings of Jesus (some of which are likely far more contemporary and accurate than the Pauline gospels in that regard) paint a picture where God is found within us all – similar to the teachings of Buddha – and the church as an organization is of secondary importance to religious “salvation” and not really required to benefit from the teachings of Christ.”
Gene,
Yes, Jesus was a prophet/philosopher in the same mold as Buddha, Confucius ad Rabbi Hillel. They all preached the same gospel. Unfortunately, as you explain the organizations that pretend to be disciples of wise humans, often fall far short of the Master’s words.
SwM,
Maybe, but based on solid psychological research, we know the old adage, “As the twig is bent, so grows the tree,” is a true statement. And we also know revisionist history is a closet industry in every large economic enterprise, including that of the Vatican.
I will attenpt agaín to win over my fumble fingers. One stroke and the whole 20 sentences disapppear.
GeneH.
Just to clarify.
My view on Magdelaena was a speculative hope that her STRONG presenece with support, would have accorded women higher status in the church and a raising them from the chattel role of Mary the mother, who only provided an carnation role in the Jesus legend. The seed came from god, a continuation of the idea that the seed was a miniature person entrusted to the womb to grow there.
Magdelena could perhaps have effected the dogmas which developed. Although considering the time from Christ and the Constantine councils then such hopes are unlikely to have been fulfilled.
The gnostics, the little we know comes mainly from a detractor, a Christian bishop. The modern consensus seems to be that they never had a center, rather accepting new ideas whenever and wherever. Thus unlikely ground for forming a church.
The apostolic principle of the RCC stands for an immutable view. What has come from God is unchangeable.
Not dissimilar from the Muslim view of the Koran and the sunni writings. etc.
Once upon a time, priests were allowed to marry I believe. But will such a miracle occur again. The pedophilic symptoms indicate not. And that was a serious comment, not meant to be snide. We have the RCC, and we must deal with it. I will not stand and cast pebbles at it which unserious cries of pedonest amount to today.
Lotta,
If the arch still stands there, stand under it today.
OK, wait a minute, is the Gospel according to Judas one of the gnostic writings? There was a whole “other” version of what really happened, was there not?
Oh, and I believe I have read that the reason priests could not marry (this happened within the first thousand years A.D. but I can’t remember when exactly) had to do with inheritance rights, not sex. They didn’t want the large estates owned by the priests to go through ordinary inheritance laws and get dissipated, wanted to keep the wealth in the church, ergo, priests could not marry because they were not supposed to have legitimate children who could inherit from them. The only kids they could have were, thereafter, illegitimate, with no claim to money, goods or land from the church.
id707,
“The gnostics, the little we know comes mainly from a detractor, a Christian bishop. The modern consensus seems to be that they never had a center, rather accepting new ideas whenever and wherever. Thus unlikely ground for forming a church.”
We also know about the Gnostics from independent scrolls found as well like the Gospel of Mary and the Gospel of Judas. What you point to is precisely why Constantine had no use for them and opted for the Pauline interpretation of Christianity. 1) The Pauline encouraged organization and compliance with dogma and 2) that played to his political ends. He was looking for a tool to control the people first and foremost. Under Imperial power, a church could have been built around the Gnostics. An organization can built around anything. That a Gnostic church would have had very limited utility to Constantine (and those who would install themselves into a Pauline hierarchy) by the very nature of their teachings is precisely why the RCC is a Pauline church today.
Malisha,
Yes, the Gospel of Judas is considered one of the Gnostic gospels.
Malisha,
Several other versions resulting in several sects. Constantine chose this particular small paulinian sect’s version because it meshed so nicely with his political plans. Once having gained his support, power and influence, and after holding several tweaking sessions, that one relatively obscure paulinian sect went about the business of destroying all the others eventually resulting in the arrogant (human beings playing God) Christianity we have today.
It’s a fascinating history and fairly well documented.
GeneH,
Exactly, Which is why he gave up trying to use the many temples scattered throughout Hellenism, with the various local adaptatíons to local gods, with hellenistic influence.
His wife/mother got credit for destroying the academies and the temples.
And let us not forget the Gospel of Thomas. nor the shepherd who dug up many, but not all are available. One can wonder what those “lost” contained and who bought them from the Egyptian. Could there be recorded the veritable words of Jesus. The GoThomas makes that claim.
Blouise,
Got one good book to recommend? Haven’t time for more. Will trade a good Indian history which am sure you will appreciate.
id707,
I found the Gospel of Thomas one of the most interesting of all the Gnostic gospels.
Who is that Thomas who has a gospel of Thomas?
Malisha,
Didymos Judas Thomas
id707,
Gene’s recommendation is a good place to start.
I’ve got a ton of books in my library on historical theology.
id707,
Sorry about the thomas thing … I misread your post. One of the books that comes to mind is the fourth edition of “The Complete Gospels”
Blouise,
Thanks.
India: A history by John Keay, not that you asked.
What else do you collect? Has the university proposed listing yours as a part of their collection YET
And if I’m permitted to miswrite, then you can misread. Tit for tat
Malisha,
Do you have your lifevest on? I think we got lured into deep water by the sharks. Let’s hope they are friendly. Would you consider saying a few Hebrew prayers.
Meanwhile I’ll pray to Didymos Judas, who was not the one who gave himself as a slave in return for passage to India, accdg to the legends. Or what say Blouise?
the pimp,excuse me, the pope is just trying to keep his bitches in line. if they keep it up he might have to popeslap them.
GeneH,
Nice outline, thanks.
Blouise,
Found Miller as editor. Will get it from Amazon.
Thanks
GeneH,
Re Thomas. Me too. The only one which caught me up.
Who’s the lady professor who wrote about the Gnostics?
If I remember right, she said it was quite common in those times to gather disciples around you based on your own preachings as to this and that. Quite simply a way to make a living.
Well, with that and the realization that I too could have been a Gospel writer if I had found a good publisher then, caused my enthusiam to wane. One man’s gospel is another man’s source to plagiarize. Or whatever.
Truth? Go fish.
Off to N. Mandelstam’s book.
idealit: “Who’s the lady professor who wrote about the Gnostics?
If I remember right, she said it was quite common in those times to gather disciples around you based on your own preachings as to this and that. Quite simply a way to make a living.”
***
an excerpt from the Gloria Patri is called for: so named for its first two words in Latin, “As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be….”
———————
Pete “popeslap? really? LOL, You are such an asset to the blawg!
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idealist: Is there something about the arch I should know about? I have stood under it and around it at just about every time of day and night in a variety of straight and totally bent frames of mind- I love the arch- saw it’s “capstone” put in place, hugged all of its 6 sharp angles at ground level both straight and in profoundly transformed (by chemicals) states of mind. I’m not understanding your comment but I do loooooooove the arch.
pete,
I’m with LK. I want you to know I just added “popeslap” to my permanent vocabulary. Well played, sir.
Popeslap! “Baby baby, I’m sorry baby, you know I love you, hey, hey — baby, no! Listen, you can go upside my head, you can give me a little knee, but baby, don’t cut my suit ’cause I gotta keep playin’ my game!”
Ever see the fashion show in Fellini’s ROMA? OMG OMG OMG!
I enjoy reading Charlie Pierce’s politics blog at Esquire. Here’s one of his posts that I thought some of you might enjoy reading:
A Call to Awaken the Bishops’ Conscience
By Charles P. Pierce
http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/catholic-bishops-civil-rights-movement-9285037
Excerpt:
This time, The Clan Of The Red Beanie means business. Apparently, in addition to filing nuisance suits around the country, the various clerical errors, who have spent the past decade comfortably free of real punishment for the various felonies against children that they aided and abetted, are now styling themselves as victims, as prisoners of conscience, because the Affordable Care Act mandates that birth control for their Presbyterian charwomen be covered by their health-insurance plans. I link to the Clan’s propaganda site just to give you a taste of the hilarious posturing and ahistorical yahooism attending this latest crusade.
(You may also notice that Thomas More is back in our politics again. He last made his appearance back during the extended Clinton impeachment kabuki, when several Republican congresscritters cited his words — or, more accurately, cited the words that playwright Robert Bolt put in More’s mouth in A Man For All Seasons regarding the rule of law — in defense of their relentless pursuit of the presidential penis. Apparently, the bishops believe that an insurance company’s being required to cover the Pill is roughly the same offense against conscience as More suffered, and being made party to it is roughly the same punishment as being beheaded. And, anyway, More was a bit of an offender against freedom of conscience his own self, a very enthusiastic fan of heretic flambe. Here are some Catholics arguing about him. Don’t blame me. I don’t know these people.)
Perhaps the most obviously risible comparison being drawn by the Clan is the one in which they line themselves up as the heirs to Dr. King, quoting the Letter From The Birmingham Jail and all. (‘T’were up to me, several of them currently would be enjoying a closer parallel to that letter, if you get my drift, and I think you do.) “During the civil rights movement of the 1950s and 1960s, Americans shone the light of the Gospel on a dark history of slavery, segregation, and racial bigotry,” the Catholic bishops say in their bulletin insert. “The civil rights movement was an essentially religious movement, a call to awaken consciences.”
Gene,
You are right. “pope slap” is classic. Great term pete!
Elaine,
The Clan of the Red Beanies is another amazing phrase! So descriptive!
pete does it again
id707 … thanks, I’ll check it out.
As to the books … most of them the university made me buy … preparing a thesis is damnably expensive.
Great post, Mark. I was taught by Franciscan sisters in grade school and my experience parallels yours. My view is that the hierarchy is in a near state of paranoia and striking blindly in every direction in a misguided effort to restore its moral authority in the wake of the abuse scandals.
For those interest in the gnostic gospels, I suggest you check out Elaine Pagels, perhaps the leading contemporary scholar on gnosticism.
I’ve hear that the ABCs of churches (cathedrals, synagogues, mosques, . . . ) are attendance, buildings, and cash. Those in charge keep the focus on the need for attendance so they can emphasize the need for cash for a bunch of really worthylike stuff, but it mostly goes to buildings and the folks who work in them.
I don’t dare to speak for God or what he thinks, but anytime I walk into a cathedral, church, synagogue, or mosque I really, really doubt that any of them is what God intended or desires. But when I saw a minivan of nuns and laity driving around D.C. at 2:00 am on a frigid January morning giving out blankets and warm drink to street people, that minivan was a church.
“But when I saw a minivan of nuns and laity driving around D.C. at 2:00 am on a frigid January morning giving out blankets and warm drink to street people, that minivan was a church.”
I really do dig your take on Christianity, Oro.
Ealaine Pagels, that’s the lady professor. Very readable and amusing the one I read. Cerainly not meant for acadaemics.
Lotta, You got it. That’s what I wwanted you to feel. Although you define the content with your, not mine.
Blouise, What did it lead to? Am alwasys wondering about the answer from folks to that one.
Oro Lee,
Nice. Did you stop them and ask to join in? Would if you could, I betcha.
Let me tell of a mosque in Cordoba. Revised by the Chistian re-conquerors, and has a cathedral neatly built in one corner, the rest is intact.
Let us for the moment forgot how they solved important arechitectural problems and talk of god’s presence instead.
If you remember that Mohammed fled Mecca, and his first sermons were made to his converts in Medina and his own followers in a date plantation.
The multiple pillars of palm trees are mirrored in the colunbs of this mosques. The arches symbolize the fronded branchs expanding at the top of each tree.
It engenders a nice mindfullness of being at the first preachings. I wonder if Christians feel the same when having communion.
columns, not colunbs; typo
How does teaching genocide fit with the public schools?
http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/295-164/11730-how-christian-fundamentalists-plan-to-teach-genocide-to-schoolchildren
“Moreover, the sanctions imposed were disproportionate to the concerns raised and could compromise their [the nuns'] ability to fulfill their mission.” ———- I think that is precisely the goal of the sanctions.
I would have much more respect for these nuns if they were to leave the church and create a new church of their own, based on their own beliefs according to their life experiences and leave the Old Church of the Pedophile Priests to die.
How many centuries of abuse do women and children have to endure before it occurs to them that they can create something of their own that really serves their needs, instead of providing their ongoing support of an organization that provides children for sex to these perverts.
God/Religion appears to be a smoke screen, a distraction tactic priests use so that we don’t pay attention to what happens to our children right here on earth, right now.
Very sick.The nuns are just as sick because they stay within the system and accept the authority of this proven to be Pedophile Protection Racket.
MK, what you say sounds logical, but it doesn’t translate into a reality-based situation for the nuns. They are women who took vows that involved the actual blessing bestowed by their GOD! They believed in the church or they wouldn’t have become nuns. They believe, for the most part, that the God and their Church are inextricably intertwined, by the word of God, not by THEIR choice. If, say, a woman understands that her husband is decreasing her ability to live as a fully free independent person, and she therefore wants to leave the marriage, OK, but what about a woman who really BELIEVES that the vows she took upon marriage were INVIOLABLE? That’s where the nuns are coming from. They can’t just turn and walk away from something they have accorded divinity to.
“The bishops are interested in power. The nuns are interested in the powerless.”
http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2012/apr/24/bullying-nuns/
WOW, OL, thanks for showing us that article.
Malisha – the nuns can create something new with the god they’re committed to and leave the Pedophile Priest Protection borg at the vatican’t stop boinking our children church.
I’m sure their god would give them kudos for that if their god is as good as they think he is.
MK, I personally believe that too, but if you’re raised in the Catholic Church and you really believe in it and you go through your life that way and you take the vows, it’s just not easy to suddenly start thinking like MK or like Malisha or etc. etc.
There is not a real big well advertised “stop bullying nuns” movement catching their attention, offering them shelters, providing pastoral care and so forth. Who’s got the money for that, a bunch of poor ex-nuns?
Malisha, it’s not easy, but it’s probably easier than it has ever been. Just think what these nuns could do at Kickstarter!
Think what they could accomplish if they weren’t under the boot of these pedophile priests. It’s disgusting the way real progress is held up, and frustrating to see the nuns choose to continue to engage this way, wasted time, energy, resources…
It’s time for wise women to lead!
Yeah, MK, I’m with you. But I’m not a nun, not Catholic, not a leader, not hip to what “Kickstarter” means, and not really able to do much to get any “wise women” to get this show on the right road. Thinking about it makes me tired. And for some unknown reason, also makes me think of the movie “La Strada.” Hmmmph, go figure that!
It’s funny, I’m thinking about all these nuns, now. Scolded by their priests for doing what Jesus would do, if reports be accurate. Well of course, because in Jesus’ day, the analogs to the priests were exactly those official power-brokers who most wanted the likes of him either under control or abandoned to their fate at the hands of the Romans. Which of course he was.
Oh, so yeah, I looked up Kickstarter. Good idea. I had actually heard of it before, but didn’t remember its name. Some Joan of Arc could come along and organize the nuns, of course –
Moral authority to do as they please….
It engenders a nice mindfullness of being at the first preachings. I wonder if Christians feel the same when having communion.
———————————————————————————————–
Most do.
Also, returning to architecture. Catholic Cathedrals have architectural elements that have meaning. Since we’re talking about columns representing date palms in Islam; in Catholicism, cathedrals always (are supposed) to have twelve columns…representing the 12 disciples holding up the church.
I’m marrying into a Catholic family very soon, I converted recently…somewhat reluctantly and somewhat half heartedly. Unfortunately my fiance is very devout and any questioning of the Church I do is responded to very poorly.
In everything I’ve learned the main line of questioning that comes up in my mind is ‘How does any of this related to Jesus?’
I’m confounded when so much emphasis in Mass is put on Communion and little on Jesus’ teachings… To me, the whole notion of false idols becomes an issue…we worship Jesus, when it seems like what we should really be doing is worshipping his teachings.
I just don’t comprehend how the Catholic Church represents what Jesus taught, yet it claims to be everything Jesus taught.
I think he’d walk into a Cathedral today and treat it much the same way he treated the Temple back in the day.
id707,
“Blouise, What did it lead to? Am alwasys wondering about the answer from folks to that one.”
Sorry id, I’ve lost track of the thread. What did what lead to? Point me in the right direction and I’ll do my best to answer.
Cathedrals….just think what a little light can do….
http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2012/06/dolan-is-he-a-republican-pol-or-a-cardinal.html
toe the line, not tow the line
a.pendant:
Good catch. I’ll make that correction.
Swarthmore,
Great link to the Daily Beast article. That Cardinal is a dirt bag.
rafflaw, Are you going to Wisconsin tomorrow?
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/06/senate-vote-paycheck-fairness-act-equal-pay-women.php?ref=fpa Republicans block equal pay for women bill.