ConAgra is facing a legal challenge over its claim that its popular Hebrew National hotdogs are kosher. Employees at the company’s third-party kosher certifier for ConAgra claim that they have witnessed serious breaches in kosher rules at the company’s meat plants.
Eleven consumers enlisted a Minnesota firm to bring the action for fraudulent mislabeling of food as kosher such as using the “Triangle K” on Hebrew National meats. One such violation is that animals for kosher meat cannot have dirty hides covered in mud, sand or stones. Moreover, the employees say that unhealthy animals are often slaughtered with the kosher certification company looking the other way.
The lawsuit clearly accuses the rabbinical oversight of the certifier as failing to properly monitor the process and hold the company to kosher standards. In that sense, it would seem an interesting variation of “agency capture” where government regulators become too identified with their regulated companies. Rabbi capture appears based on the same notions.
Source: CBS
Want a true kosker dog, go to a kosher deli….. Other than that, this seems like a seminal dispute within the community…..
This is an old fight.
The Pharisees and Sadduces had this quarrel going ~2,000 years ago.
The controversy at one time concerned whether or not when pouring a kosher (“ceremonially pure”) liquid from a kosher vessel into a non-kosher vessel, the impurity of the non-kosher flowed uphill through the liquid into the clean vessel, thereby tainting it.
This case JT illustrates will be easier to decide it would seem.
Seminal as used here means “containing or contributing the seeds of later development”……
My comments await moderation.
There were two kosher groceries in a suburban town in around the year 2000. Somebody in the community brought a complaint up about the quality of the rabbinical inspection at one of them (the smaller one, actually, but the one that was in the denser neighborhood). After that, I heard that “some people will buy the packaged goods there because they come from the same warehouses and they are kosher if the label is good, but they won’t buy the fresh meat or fish; others won’t buy anything at all because they don’t trust it.” Then that smaller place went out of business and guess what? Got taken over/bought out/replaced (who knows what the actual mechanism of action was) by the other one. Now there’s only one in town, with two different locations.
I worked at a ConAgra beef plant as an assistant plant controller many years ago in Idaho.
The big dog plant controller quit, but the bigger big dog wouldn’t promote me because he didn’t like me.
I worked at a Dean Foods plant after that. You have to get a Rabbi to say it’s kosher. What’s the big deal?
==========================
One such violation is that animals for kosher meat cannot have dirty hides covered in mud, sand or stones. Moreover, the employees say that unhealthy animals are often slaughtered with the kosher certification company looking the other way.
=========================
Do you think they’re going to put their makeup on. I never saw one unhealthy animal processed.
=======================
The lawsuit clearly accuses the rabbinical oversight of the certifier as failing to properly monitor the process and hold the company to kosher standards. In that sense, it would seem an interesting variation of “agency capture” where government regulators become too identified with their regulated companies. Rabbi capture appears based on the same notions.
==========================================================
Buy regular hotdogs. It’s exactly the same thing.
KosherDog here, at the requiest of BarkinDog:
I am what some call a “rescue dog”. The dog organization called DWOPs or Dogs Without Papers was set up by a humanoid Pal to save dogs who were targeted by this group of humanoids which calls itself The Humane Society and they drive around in a truck, round up dogs without collars or tags, take them to a “shelter” and “euthenize” them. One would think that the shelter would sheltter the dog and the euthenisation thing would have to do with putting some youth back into a sick dog. But No! This is really a Nazi death camp for dogs, subsidized with tax dollars.
So when the Turley blog was discussed at the dogpack yesterday and Turley was calling President Obama an Imperialist for trying to help those Kids Without Papers (people WOPS) we got aggravated. People of a nationality that used to be referred to as WOPS should be put into a trance and a state of remembrance of granpa and granma when they got off the boat without papers.
My group: Dogs Without Papers (DWOP) is made up of human Pals and dogs. We give fake IDs to DWOPs so that they dont get rounded up by the Humane Society and murdered. If you want to join our effort in your dog neighborhood simply start doing the Lord’s work. On Sunday go to the Piggly Wiggly and buy ten dog collars on sale for a buck a piece this weekedn and also get dog name tags that you can write on. Put a dog name on each tag with a magic marker that wont erase in water (the dog might be a Labrador) and put the collars on the stray dogs in the neighborhood so that they have some cover when the Humane Society truck rolls around. When the guy in the truck is off looking to round up Fido, let the air out of all four tires.
DWOP named me KosherDog because the Humane Society guy is jewish and DWOP thought it might help my case.
KosherDog
“Buy regular hotdogs. It’s exactly the same thing.”
Matt,
That’s the one part of your comment I disagree with. Hebrew National are the best tasting hot dogs. There have been many taste tests that have borne this out.
As to the Kosher issue, the problem with the Kosher laws is that there has to be Rabbi’s known as “Mashgiarchs”, who earn their living certifying that the food meets the strict Kosher laws. When your living comes from a particular place then all too often the consideration of money trumps religious belief. A persons ability to find self-justification because of personal interest is boundless. Too little facts here though to ascertain the facts of the matter, could also be malicious intent of the ex-employee or an effort by business competitors.
KosherDog,
So when the Turley blog was discussed at the dogpack yesterday and Turley was calling President Obama an Imperialist for trying to help those Kids Without Papers (people WOPS) we got aggravated. People of a nationality that used to be referred to as WOPS should be put into a trance and a state of remembrance of granpa and granma when they got off the boat without papers.
================
Keep the WOP kids away from Nurse Ratchet.
=====================================
You only have to let the air out of two tires. Because they only have one spare.
My group: Dogs Without Papers (DWOP) is made up of human Pals and dogs. We give fake IDs to DWOPs so that they dont get rounded up by the Humane Society and murdered.
————————————–
hahahahaha!
BarkinDog, you must be good people after all…..
Hey Mike,
Too little facts here though to ascertain the facts of the matter, could also be malicious intent of the ex-employee or an effort by business competitors.
++++++++++++++
Shrink?
Woosty’s still a Cat 1, June 21, 2012 at 10:12 am
My group: Dogs Without Papers (DWOP) is made up of human Pals and dogs. We give fake IDs to DWOPs so that they dont get rounded up by the Humane Society and murdered.
————————————–
hahahahaha!
BarkinDog, you must be good people after all
=======================================
BarkinDog’s a good cat. I guess kosher hotdogs are better after all.
“Too little facts here though to ascertain the facts of the matter,….” MikeS.
General observation: How refreshing to hear these words, heard so seldom where opinions are so firmly asserted as absolute truths.
.
I have always had that attitude, yes, believe it or not.
And perhaps I have been indoctrinated here that truths are black and white.
There is of course the alternative to that of my acquiring a firm opinion, which I have done frequently, to be armed for battle.
And a point on argumentation: Does one have to be armed with an axe to remove the mote from thy neighbors eye.
idealist707 1, June 21, 2012 at 10:24 am
And a point on argumentation: Does one have to be armed with an axe to remove the mote from thy neighbors eye.
=================================
A carefully utilized scalpel works better.
A fully stocked tool box is an even better option.
Gene,
Depends on the tools. I built a deck behind my house all by myself. The ex-wife helped a little bit. The deck is perfectly square and perfectly level. Twenty-four feet by sixteen feet. Some of the boards need to be replaced.
I can’t understand what all the fuss is about. It is a hot dog! If you actually read the ingredients of a hot dog, you may never want to eat one. Even a good tasting kosher dog.
raff,
Are you sure you’re from Chicago?
I find this to be an interesting argument but beyond that I can’t comment because I actually have a (hot)dog in this fight.
rafflaw,
You know more than you should say. A lot of it is head meat. Just because the ingredient list says it’s beef, you don’t know what part of the beef it is.
BarkinDog here. Please dont confuse me with KosherDog whom I let sit in for me on the Dogalogue machine this morning and say his peace. KosherDog is a funny little guy with a beanie who is all consumed with the Dogs With Out Papers organization. The guy Pal who founded DWOP is an older codger who does his best to protect the dogpack. But KosherDog is right about the Humane Society and those schmucks who do their best to exterminate dogs. He has his shots and a real dog license on his collar. He also has a little flat tag on his collar in brass which says: Never Forget. I asked the old dog what that meant but he says he forgot. I can tell you too that the Humane Society schmucks are prejudiced against Chico and the other hispanic dogs. The hate Rotts and Pitt Bulls. We got a guy named PittsburghDog in the pack who gets harassed all the time and his Pal is a cop.
BarkinDog, you guys don’t need to worry too much about your place in the food chain so long as everybody observes the laws of “kasrut” — a land animal has to have HOOVES and CHEW ITS CUD to be edible.
BarkinDog,
Are you sure PittsburghDog’s Pal cop is his pal? Did you see what Dredd said?
Matt,
You’re not a carpenter, and neither am I. Ours was built by a pro. He came fussing because the house was not square.
Kerstin shut him up with: “Most houses aren’t.”
PS You should have not made it level, a certain drainage should be aided. Keeps the boards from drying out.
Selling products as “Kosher” when not actually kosher is a crime in Washington State.
RCW 69.90.010
Definitions.
Unless the context clearly requires otherwise, the definitions in this section apply throughout this chapter.
(1) “Food product” includes any article other than drugs, whether in raw or prepared form, liquid or solid, or packaged or unpackaged, and which is used for human consumption.
(2) “Kosher” means a food product which has been prepared, processed, manufactured, maintained, and sold in accordance with the requisites of traditional Jewish dietary law.
(3) “Person” includes individuals, partnerships, corporations, and associations.
——————————————————————————–
RCW 69.90.020
Sale of “kosher” and “kosher style” food products prohibited if not kosher — Representations — Penalty.
(1) No person may knowingly sell or offer for sale any food product represented as “kosher” or “kosher style” when that person knows that the food product is not kosher and when the representation is likely to cause a prospective purchaser to believe that it is kosher. Such a representation can be made orally or in writing, or by display of a sign, mark, insignia, or simulation.
(2) A person violating this section is guilty of a gross misdemeanor.
——————————————————————————–
RCW 69.90.030
Violation of chapter is violation of consumer protection act.
A violation of this chapter shall constitute a violation of the consumer protection act, chapter 19.86 RCW.
There is far more not ‘kosher’ about conagra than just their hotdogs.
Any meat from animals raised in a CAFO is contaminated in some disgusting way.
Either its steroids or hormones or nitrates or salt water pumping or antibiotic contamination or MRSA (50% of all CAFO meat tests positive).
CAFOs cause huge environmental contamination resulting in pfisteria (flesh eating bacteria) contamination of watersheds, etc etc et al.
Just say “No” to all CAFO meat and you will preserve your health.
Shano,
Is CAFO meat identified on the label? Are organics non-CAFO?
What if we call her StichinDog?
One would think that a blog sponsored by a guy who fronts himself off as some conlaw guy would be less ConAgra about it and not censor words out of the comments.
First they promote Willard on this blog and now they adopt censorhship. First Amendment my ……
Anyone know a free speech blog where a dog can employ the name for a female dog without being censored? The word is itchin to get out and starts with a B.
Is Turley himself the moderator or censor? Some student?
ScratchinDog here sittin in for BarkinDog. I had to change my name to get past the censor..
They call it ConAgra because they are a bunch of Con men who act like they know about agriculture. Why do they attempt to sanctify some tube of meat to eat by calling it a Hotdog?
So I will tell a story that gets told around the dog pack. Two nuns emigrated here from Poland and came without papers. They were working in a convent and escaped one day and walked into Coney Island. They went up to a hotdog stand and each ordered one. They walked out to the seating area, sat down, and the first Polish nun without papers says to the other one after she unwrapped the paper off the food item? “What part of the dog did you get?”
True story. In those days they never kicked people out of the country for not having papers so they got to stay. The questioning one with the inquiring mind quit the nunnery and married some guy and they had kids. One of the kids is grown and lives in the neighborhood and belongs to DWOPs. He told the nun and the hot dog story to the dog pack this morning and nun of us laughed.
If the food item was aptly named it would be called Anthony’s Wiener after that Congressman from NY who could not keep his wiener off facebook.
I would suppose that Kosher does NOT regulate use of sub-therapeutic levels of antibiotics in meat production. And thus all, practically, kosher contains meat which has can have been exposed to bacteria resistant to anti-biotics.
Here is a quote citing the AMA’s position.
Each year, 24.6 million pounds of antimicrobials are administered to livestock for non-therapeutic purposes.[19] Seventy percent of all antibiotics and related drugs are given to animals as feed additives.[3] Nearly half of the antibiotics used are nearly identical to ones given to humans. There is strong evidence that the use of antibiotics in animal feed is contributing to an increase in antibiotic-resistant microbes and causing antibiotics to be less effective for humans.[3] Due to concerns over antibiotic-resistant bacteria, the American Medical Association passed a resolution stating its opposition to the use of sub-therapeutic levels of antimicrobials in livestock.[11] l Source: Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaerobic_lagoon#Antibiotics
Or does Kosher adapt itself to such modern problems?
After all, we are allowed to look at evening programs such as Colbert, Stewart, et al.
So why these words?
Use of words diminish their effect. The saving relationship which has helped many a frantic parent with a 3 year old’s new vocabulary.
Thank the dogs for bringing it up. The smart ones spoke pig-latin in high school. When do we get a dog-latin?
idealist; the only way to assure you are not buying CAFO meat is to either know your producer (LBell Ranch) or buy only grass fed beef, free range chicken & turkey. Pastured pigs.
People buy ‘organic’ beef for a premium, which is a mistake. It isn’t the type of feed, all corn or grain fed beef have a changed fats ratio. Grass fed beef or pork has more Omega 3s vs Omega 6.
All grain fed beef (organic or not) have had this healthy fat ratio changed to more Omega 6 fat. Americans in general get too much Omega 6 and not enough Omega 3, it is a huge factor in why the American diet is so bad for human health…
Grass fed beef that is full of Omega 3 fats are really healthy to eat and do not promote heart disease. That is the real problem I have with the American food system.
They say ‘red’ meat is bad for your heart, and sure, all CAFO meat has had the bad fats enhanced so they are bad for you. But grass fed beef, pork and poultry who have a natural diet of bugs and grass (free range) are NOT bad for you in any way. The Omega 3 fats make a huge difference.
idealist, this shows you how powerful Cargil, Smithfield, Tyson, et al are in government. When the Union of Concerned Scientists has been clamoring to end this non theraputic use of antibiotics in meat, now the AMA, various consumer groups- all shouting at the government as loud as we can- signing petitions, direct actions, etc.
From Congress? crickets. From Obama- oh, lets have a VOLUNTARY program to reduce the use of antibiotics in meat.
Independent studies show more than 50% of CAFO workers test positive for MRSA on their skin. these people are spreading these antibiotic resistant bacteria all through the US. Independent studies also show the majority of meat from supermarkets is also contaminated with MRSA.
I have not eaten this meat in 7 years and I would never touch the stuff. Too much contamination and no regulations. We had one recent victory- we got the government to ban feeding arsenic to chickens (it caused weight gain). Imagine that. People in America have been eating arsenic in chicken meat for decades.
No need to wonder why we have the highest health care costs in the world.
The inspector wasn’t an ex-German army sergeant name Schultz, was he?
Vocalizing Canine,
See these two posts to answer your question:
http://jonathanturley.org/2012/06/21/california-lawyers-arrested-in-bizarre-alleged-frame-up-of-pta-president/#comment-386206
and
http://jonathanturley.org/2012/06/21/california-lawyers-arrested-in-bizarre-alleged-frame-up-of-pta-president/#comment-386261
Shano,
You shock the hell out of me with the arsenic in chicken feed to get weight gain. Any limits?
I’ve been a Omega 3 groupie for years. 20 to 1 is the usual American ratio between 6 and 3 accdg to the figures I have seen. I had no problem to holding it under 7 and ofter was down to 4 to 1 (6 to 3).
Your political part was frightening too. It was the same on weed killers, except no effect on humans could be proven. Only livestock feeding on Roundup alfalfa. But now it is 2,4-D Agent Orange, which is a known carcubigeb since Vietnam days. How will that go?
If most of the meat is contaminated with MRSA pathogens, how do we keep healthy. Cook well and don’t slick your fingers when preparing?
Are you doing fish oil capsules or just eating more oily fish?
HotDog here. Sittin in for BarkinDog.
They call me HotDog because I chase all the gal dogs. Not to be confused with HumpinDog who likes humanoid legs. I get to sing the Armour Hotdog Song, adapted for the dogpack, on dog birthdays. Here it is:
Hot dogs, Armour Hot Dogs,
What kind of dogs like Armour Hot Dogs?
Fat dogs, skinny dogs, dogs who climb on rocks,
All sorts of little dogs, even ones with Chicken pox,
Like Hot Dog,
Armour Hot Dogs,
The dogs, real dogs, like,
to bite!
dunna dun uump.
……
By the way, Kosher dog says he is partial to Armour Hot Dogs. I think that most of us are because that is the brand handed out at the dog birthday parties at the DWOPs events. DWOP, for the uninitiated, stands for Dogs With Out Papers. That is a group that helps us beat the system.
Mike,
“That’s the one part of your comment I disagree with. Hebrew National are the best tasting hot dogs.”
That’s only because you haven’t had the hotdogs made from the beef raised by the fine folks at Snowy Creek Ranch. They’re twice as much, but do taste twice as good
Hot dogs are weird for me, because even the really good ones just seem to be missing something.
Hot dogs= CAFO meat, artificial flavors & colors, pink slime, meat glue, nitrates, msg, corn starch, HFCS, GMOs, salt water injections.
hmm hmm good.
I used to buy organic, no-nitrites hot dogs from some farm in Oregon. They came frozen in a box, not terribly expensive. They were great! I haven’t seen that stuff on the East Coast but I’m sure it’s available somewhere.
idealist707 1, June 21, 2012 at 12:08 pm
Matt,
You’re not a carpenter, and neither am I. Ours was built by a pro. He came fussing because the house was not square.
Kerstin shut him up with: “Most houses aren’t.”
PS You should have not made it level, a certain drainage should be aided. Keeps the boards from drying out.
===========================
There’s an optical illusion. It looks like it’s sloping off slightly to the back, but it isn’t.
@MikeSpindell – To be a Kosher dog, does a mohel have to cut off the tips of the dogs? Right on about HN being the best dog. And screw everything else, they do have to answer to a higher authority; my taste buds!
@Idealist – Plumb, square and level is the way to go. My dad was considered a terrorist by the contractor who built our family’s home in 1963. My dad was a mechanical engineer, who would stop by the construction site several days a week, and leave a punch list for the builder to correct. When the house was sold a year ago, not one issue with the home (cracks, shifting, settling).
junctionshamus,
HN just knows how to make a good hotdog, for some the Kosher is merely the icing on the cake. No other Kosher hotdog that I’ve tasted compares to HN.