A newly released poll by Public Policy Polling (PPP) of Ohio Republican voters contains a rather surprising statistic: roughly one in seven Republicans in the state believe that Romney was responsible for killing Osama Bin Laden. It is not clear how the businessman accomplished this act (I was hoping for an article that Bain Capital simply transferred his job outside the country and downsized him out of existence). While I have been critical of the degree to which President Obama has virtually worn the corpse around his shoulders like a campaign shawl (and Biden’s equally ridiculous claims), the poll is the final showing that the EEG is flat on any brain activity in this election.
The results of the poll probably says more about the blind rage of some voters (who are unwilling to acknowledge a single positive thing about Obama) than it does a lack of actual knowledge. However, the credit given to Romney adds a truly otherworldly aspect to the mentality of these voters.
Here are the numbers: Of the “very” conservative voters polled, 15% credited Romney with the kill. (By the way, 4% of “very liberal” Ohioans also gave Romney the credit).
Overall, 1 in 3 Ohioans surveyed (31%) both liberal and conservative said they were not sure who was responsible for bin Laden’s death. Some 51 percent of conservatives expressed uncertainty.
Once again, I have serious qualms about presidents claiming heroic status on such operations as if they dropped into the compound with Seal Team Six. It is the same discomfort I felt with Bush prancing around on the deck of the Abraham Lincoln declaring victory in the war.
There is no question that Obama can be credited with authorizing the operation, though his suggestion that Romney would not have ordered the killing is equally absurd.
As noted earlier, I expect most candidates would have ordered the attack on the compound. However, the recent use of dead trophy terrorists as campaign props has only diminished the quality of our political discourse further. It often seems like politicians are playing tug-of-war with bodies like Bin Laden’s to “claim the kill.” The polled responses of these Republicans is obviously absurd, but only slightly more absurd than the fight to claim the kill in my view.
What do you think?
Source: Public Policy
Could someone who understands polls and pollsters please explain why this question might have been included in the first place? Does it serve the purpose of some kind of “control”? It seems to me to be a very strange question, and I would love to understand the reason it would even be thought of, let alone asked. Thank you.
I’m not sure about Romney being dignificantly involved in the Bin Laden killing.
However, if the question is in a poll, then there must be something in it.
Whatever about the Bin Laden thing, I’m pretty certain that Romney invented the Internet.
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Including that question in a poll might actually be a control question.
“Here are the numbers: Of the “very” conservative voters polled, 15% credited Romney with the kill. (By the way, 4% of “very liberal” Ohioans also gave Romney the credit).”
It gives the possibility for an analysis other than “very conservative” v. “very liberal” on all questions in the poll.
This would be “very stupid” v. “not demonstrably very stupid”.
This is a problem for a substantial minority of the nation. Reality no longer impacts their thinking. History is a fog of BS strung together with a gossamer of lies that they hold to as the only truth. Events that happened, or are happening, right before them are ignored for some flimsy insanity that reinforces their fantasy world rather than corrects it.
Rmoney got Bin Laden
Obama wrecked the economy
Tax cuts pay for themselves
We can balance the budget by cutting foreign aid & welfare
Unions hurt workers
The media is liberal
Climate change isn’t happening
Iraq caused 9/11 and had WMD
They are coming to take your guns
America is a Christian nation
illegal immigrants are taking your job
Wealth trickles down
All can be easily disproven through a little reading and simple observation but all deeply held by delusional people who are dragging us all down like drowning victims taking their rescuers with them.
I have to say that Obama can take full credit for ordering the opersation and his assertion that others would not have done so is right on the mark. Both Clinton, and McCain publicly criticized him for saying that he would go into Pakistan no matter what if he knew Bin Laden was there. Romney can also be included in tha crowd since he was FOR continuing W Bush’s refrain, I don’t much care about Bin Laden any more. I am astounded that the so called patriots on the right, did not blast Bush for saying that. It would be like FDR saying that getting Tojo was of no importance during and after WWII. When I heard W Bush make that statement, I came out of my seat I was so pissed off, but all the good GOPbots were quiet.
The raid cam most closely be compared to the Doolittle Raid on Tokyo in WWII. It was directly ordered by FDR against the recommendations of his military. While from a military point of view, the raid was non-sensical, it did make sense politically. The fallout from it became militarily significant since it forced Yamamoto to divert forces to Midway to negate any such further threats. That led to the greatest naval victory in US history at Midway.
Likewise, we cannot know the full extent of the victory in getting Bin Laden, but we DO know he was not incomunicado in a cave as Bush said. In FACT, as the SEAL pionted out, they had so much intel material, they had to scrounge around for more bags to carry all the stuff. So yes, Obama can rightly claim the responsibility for ordering the CIA to make getting Bin Laden job number one, as contrasted to Bush, who disbanded the Bin Laden unit and joined Romney in his estimate that Bin Laden was not important any more. I will remember where I was when I heard Bin Laden was dead,just as I remember how I heard about 9/11. I can tell you that for that alone, Obama should be re-elected. Of course, I am a pilot, so that may have something to do with it too.
I have watched the “Jay walking” segment on Jay Lenos’ tonite show.
He asks questions of random people. I find it hard to believe some physically healthy people have the ability to remember how to walk, after listening to their responses to some questions.
There is a national radio show on in the wee hours of the morning, “coast to coast” the topics are ,bigfoot, ufos, contrails, ghosts, and all things superstitious. American exceptionalism includes ignorance, stupidity, and a frighteningly willful desire to deny reality.
PS. Politicians, Wall st. and Madison ave, take advantage of this fact everyday. Ironically, some politicians have come down from this altar of deceit and are now preaching from the pews.
I am an Ohioan and am very embarrassed to hear the results of this poll. What does this poll tell us? It tells us that there are voters out there who are, yes, stupid and dare I say it, racist.
This same poll shows Obama with his biggest lead in Ohio since May. PPP has Democratic leanings but Romney should be worried as even Rasmussen (Republican leaning) has been showing clear Obama gains and leads.
As to the poll that is the subject of this thread, here is a link that helps in understanding it from a Political Science point of view. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/09/10/do-15-of-ohio-republicans-think-romney-killed-bin-laden-probably-not/
” … voters have trouble crediting politicians they don’t like for policy outcomes they do like. And killing bin Laden is a policy outcome they do like. And so partisan effects have led some Republicans to argue that Obama was not primarily responsible for killing bin Laden or, even more absurdly, that Romney was responsible. … Psychologists call the phenomenon on display here ‘motivated reasoning’ ”
Correcting these voters usually results in a backlash of denial … in other words … partisans on both sides prefer to live in ignorance. “If I agree with it, it’s good and my guy did it. Otherwise, your guy did it.
[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu3Rfc9fr-0&w=420&h=315%5D
Jackie and Dunlap have an explanation of the phenomenon:
Bush said getting Bin-Laden not important. I think the animus the prof has towards the president colors his view of anything the pres does.
I have not heard Obama ‘wearing it like a shawl”.
What should be more distressing is that the platformconcerns only about lack of the word G-d and Jerusalem not named as the capitol.
Everyone seems to be ignoring the bigger issues and pictures which is what allows the government, both sides, both houses as well as prez. to put into play some of these policies.
Do they think Romney dusted bin Laden during his foreign policy trip after he dissed the London folks about their Olympics?
Just as he retroactively resigned from Bain, Romney traveled forward in time to got elected in November and time traveled back to retroactively kill Bin Laden. Pretty simple to ulnderstand, really.
I think it shows the bloodthirsty nature of the majority of our population. Democrats were screaming and rejoicing about the killing at the DNC. I guess their counterparts in the Republican party just want to scream and rejoice as well.
As to the facts of the killing, we don’t know what happened. On NPR it was presented as a military made decision where a military officer brought Obama in at the last minute to see the raid and was prepared to push him aside if he said to stop it. This differs from Biden who presented it as a religious speaking of the word, “and it was done”. I’m certain Romney did not do this, but it sounds as though this was more of a JSOC operation than anything else.
There is something profoundly wrong with both Democrats and Republicans joining together in blood lust. It is what scares me most about this nation. People are not thinking straight. There is a tenuous connection to reality on the part of Democrats and Republicans alike. Both believe propaganda and refuse to reckon with what is actually happening to our people and people around the world. Worse than this is a real loss of any ethical mooring by our people. Ethics have become, if my side does it, it is good.
Blood lust, blinding rage resulting in two minutes of hate–I see this all around me. The only people who benefit from this are the people running things. But try making that simple statement and you will arouse the ire of true believers in the legacy parties.
Here’s the question to ask both Democrats and Republicans:
http://gawker.com/5941326/ask-the-dnc-is-romney-ready-for-the-kill-list
Romneputin in the making….. I bet some view him as St. Germain in the making…..m
But then again…wasnt Joseph Smith ran out of Ohio before he was killed in, I think, Missouri……
First I read Turley’s article from today’s USA Today in regards to Civil Liberties, then I read that almost 80% of Chicago’s kids are below reading levels (assuming the same can be said for most major cities), then I read this article.
How can one have any hope that intelligent Americans will ever be willing to stand up for their civil liberties and take our country back when we have little hope there will still be intelligent Americans as we move forward?
Even a lot of our intelligent citizens would rather put their mental energies into figuring out their fantasy football picks rather then simply paying a little attention to the day to day happenings in our nation.
Is this how its always been?
I don’t care if Romney got Bid Laden. That still does not make up for his starting the war in Iraq.
He had about as much to do with it as Obama, any president would have made the same call.
Hilarious Mike A.! This survey shows what happens to the brain when you listen only to Fox News. In light of the campaign noise on the right in the last 10-20 years that Democrats are worthless in military and foreign affairs, the Obama administration should take credit for finding and eradicating a mass murderer.
Arthur also had it right that Obama put getting Bin Laden as a top priority after Pres.Bush’s mistake in not pursuing him more vigourously.
And before I forget, What Frankly said!
I think it is funny that Romney would take credit for the OBL killing. He was no where near the or involved in the government let alone involved with the military. An act such as that is ordered by the President of the US along with his military advisers. Maybe he was responsible for liberating the people from the concentration camps in Germany. Why would anyone believe that poll.
I have another situation where the Federal Judges, their lawyers, and are commingling fraud, purgery and Constitutional Rights violations against one businessman. This is not the first time this Federal Court has conducted itself is such outrageous dealings. What do you do when the Feds gang up on you, strip you of many of the civil rights we hold dear to us?
Take a look at http://lawinorder.com for a complete run down and court documents.
Excerpt from a court doc: THE COURT: “I’m telling you don’t screw with me. You are a fool, a fool, a fool, a fool to screw with a federal judge, and if you don’t understand that, I can make you understand it. I have the force of the Navy, Army, Marines and Navy behind me.”
THE COURT: “You realize that order is an order of the Court. So any failure to comply with that order is contempt, punishable by lots of dollars, punishable by possible jail, death”
We need your support to report this horrible act before all American Citizens fall into this trap.
They did it to express their hatred of a black US President. That’s a fact.
“He had about as much to do with it as Obama, any president would have made the same call.”
Except that Bush failed at to give the order at Bora Bora and stated more than once that he wasn’t all that concerned about OBL. Therefore, not ANY President would make the call and this President didn’t shirk from it and went against conventional wisdom to say nothing of the no-better-than 50/50 odds of success. Nice try at revisionist history.
Mike Appleton
1, September 11, 2012 at 10:17 am
I don’t care if Romney got Bid Laden. That still does not make up for his starting the war in Iraq.
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lol
I disagree with your contention that most candidates would have ordered the Bin Laden attack, and am missing how your link supports that. Unless you have some insight into the risks and certainty of success associated with the undertaking that were considered by the President, I don’t see how you can say that. Was it a “slam dunk” in your view? Although if you want to argue that the political risks associated with failure were lower for any republican candidate due to a mistaken perception that they are tougher and more capable in military matters and therefore any failure was unavoidable, I might agree.
leejcarroll, You obviously haven’t heard Biden saying as part of his stump speech, “Bin Laden is dead and GM is alive.” He says it 3 times in a row. Mr. Turley is quite correct about the “shawl.”
And some of us believe that bin Laden died years before of kidney failure; that the whole bin Laden attack was a sham. Most of the SEAL team was killed in a helicopter crash. A coincidence I’m sure.
It is 9/11 once again.
I remember the Twin Tower attack. I remember that people died a horrendous death and their families were tortured in the aftermath waiting to discover if they were dead or somehow miraculously alive.
I still wonder who exactly was responsible.
The capitalizing on this event is truly repugnant.
bettykath
Who is the “us”?
Do you believe that bin Laden died of kidney failure and the attack was a sham?
eeyore, yes. Part of the evidence is Bush’s lack of interest. Well before the Iraq invasion bin Laden was in a hospital in Dubai for dialysis and kidney treatment. The cia station chief met with him. This while bin Laden, a cia asset for years, was on the most wanted list.
I am no longer surprised by the idiocy of my fellow man. This is not even really a liberal or conservative issue. After all, 4% of “very liberal” Ohioans gave Romney (their political enemy) the credit.
We need to accept the fact that half of all Americans are below average intelligence. Further, according to distribution charts, about 16% of Americans are legally considered “deficient” to “moron” (IQ 59-80)
That’s about one in six people.
They live among us. Accept it, and learn to read data with that in mind.
bettykath,
How do you explain the Seal’s that took part of the raid? The majority of the team don’t like Obama and hope Romney will win. If they came out that there never was a raid, it would surely doom Obama’s re-election. What about the Pakistani doctor who has been imprisoned? What about the picture of the crashed helicoptor? What about the demolition of bin Laden’s home? Was Gates in on the sham raid?
Bruce – do you have to work at being that dense or does it come naturally to you? McCain blasted Obama in 08 for suggesting he would go after OBL even if he were in Pakistan. Willard made the same statement. Boy Blunder claimed OBL was living in a cave & not a threat – in fact it was quite the opposite.
It is therefore demonstrated by these people very words that they would not have made the call. I can get that you hate the black Democrat that is President but how about trying reality on for a change?
I would give partial credit to many reasons of this poles outcome:
1) Yes, some people will never give Obama credit for anything;
2) Yes, some people in this country are just plain stupid (not a word I use lightly);
3) Some people speak the language of sarcasm very well;
4) Some people hate polls and gives contrary answers (I have a boss who does this);
5) and finally, some pollsters couldn’t enter the correct information into a computer to save their lives!
first he killed bin ladin then he saved sweet polly purebread. or was that underdog
Blouise
“Psychologists call the phenomenon on display here ‘motivated reasoning’”
That’s more an irrational belief in something old.
Romney killing OBL would be something new. Irrational belief in that might be classified as ‘enhanced reasoning’.
nick spinelli1, September 11, 2012 at 11:31 am
“leejcarroll, You obviously haven’t heard Biden saying as part of his stump speech, “Bin Laden is dead and GM is alive.” He says it 3 times in a row. Mr. Turley is quite correct about the “shawl.””
I heard him say it, Bin Laden is dead, GM is alive, I do not hear him saying it was all ‘me’ or ‘us’ (the prez and he), he is stating a fact. Bin laden IS dead, GM IS alive. It is your choice to read into it that he is taking full credit. The president has repeatedly spoken of the SEALS and what they did. The prez also deserves credit for making the order. After all Bush said Bin Laden was not worth the effort, Mitt not worth the cost. It was Obama who took the risk for something that could have ended like Carter’s attempted hostage rescue.
Obama gets credit for making the decision. Carter’s attempt wasn’t properly planned.
Why did Pakistan keep insisting Bin Laden was dead from kidney disease?
There is another poll out today which reveals that conservatives in Virgina and North Carolina who are nominally RepubliCon, say they will not vote for The Willard because he is a Mormon and many say the reason is that Mormonism is a cult. Wait til they learn that The Willard is also a gypsie. Romney a/k/a Romani a/k/a Roma. Us dogs dont care a twit about the gypsie thing, we care about the dog in the crate on the roof of the car in the cross country trip when he was going to the Mormon convention in Michigan.
Then, too, we dont like a politician who wont go by his real name as in Willard. I guess he is embarassed that George and mom conceived him in the Willard Hotel and named him after the place. Its not on the Birth Certificate — well, the name is not the place of conception. Whereas,
Georgie was born in Mexico back when his daddy had eight wives. And the question that Mexican Americans have is: Whose your gramma?
If The Willard wins then this dog’s pal, who is blind but can see, is going to pull all of his stocks out of the market and put his money in the Cayman Islands in a gold trust account. BarkinDog is a guide dog for a blind guy who has some real sense. When we go grocery shopping, I pick out the dog biscuits.
SlingTrebuchet,
‘enhanced reasoning’ … I like it!
SlingTrebuchet 1, September 11, 2012 at 6:56 pm
Blouise
“Psychologists call the phenomenon on display here ‘motivated reasoning’”
That’s more an irrational belief in something old.
Romney killing OBL would be something new. Irrational belief in that might be classified as ‘enhanced reasoning’.
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Please explain what “motivated reasoning” and “enhanced reasoning” means.
Matt: “Please explain what “motivated reasoning” and “enhanced reasoning” means.”
‘Motivated reasoning’ is a real term used in psychology.
One way of describing it would be a reasoning process where there is a very strong motivation to reach a certain conclusion. Overwhelming contradictory information is reasoned away or ignored.
‘Enhanced reasoning’ is a term that I probably coined.
Motivated reasoning generally implies that the reasoner has taken a number of factors into account – that there actually is a corrupted form of reasning going on.
My (?) term describes arriving at a conclusion in the absence of a process.
I arrive at the term by starting with “XXX reasoning” – where “XXX” is a term indicating something appalling. Change the “XXX” to “enhanced” to make the entire term seem somehow less appalling.
I do not think one can conclude that other candidates would have ordered the attack on the compound, or using the same method. From what I have read, there was a complex decision making process with many options, and many risks, and multiple ways to proceed.
SlingTrebuchet 1, September 12, 2012 at 3:58 am
My (?) term describes arriving at a conclusion in the absence of a process.
I arrive at the term by starting with “XXX reasoning” – where “XXX” is a term indicating something appalling. Change the “XXX” to “enhanced” to make the entire term seem somehow less appalling.
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Is that what condoms are for?
Matt, that was very subtle!…..elegant….
Maybe condoms are a process with an absence of the conclusion.
SlingTrebuchet,
Inspired! (condoms comeback)
I am wondering if enhanced reasoning is the root cause inevitably leading to the motivated reasoning phenomena? Chicken/egg dilemma.
SlingTrebuchet 1, September 12, 2012 at 8:47 am
Maybe condoms are a process with an absence of the conclusion.
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What is the conclusion?
We now know that Bush LIED about the WMD’s in Iraq, and sent OUR TROOPS to die in an illegal war.
We also now know all the top Bush officials approved torture of ‘enemy combatants’. Even as Bush was having robot Rice telling other countries that he did NOT support torture.
But then he is turning around and telling congress that he would veto anti-torture legislation.
So congress passes the bill with a ‘veto proof’ margin.
Bush then uses ‘signing statements’ to kill the intent of the bill. Which prompts congress to SUE Bush.
And then when pictures of torture are made public, Bush & company fakes outrage and sends OUR TROOPS to prison for HIS policies!!
HOW does this guy NOT be prosecuted as a war criminal??
So voters put in the Dems, but first thing Nancy Peloci says when she gets in is that impeachment is off the table!!
So now we have BOTH parties covering for these crimes.
And now after watching Obama run Bush’s third term, I can clearly see that these people are not running the country.
The elite corporations, oil companies, bankers, Wall St, 180,000+ War Contractors, & CIA with mafia ties seem to be the ones in charge.
So arguing about who got Bin Laden isn’t going to change anything.
And like others I had always considered jobs & economy to be first priority, but I can see now that government corruption needs to be first, because until that is fixed NOTHING will change!
The elite corporations, oil companies, bankers, Wall St, 180,000+ War Contractors, & CIA with mafia ties seem to be the ones in charge.
So arguing about who got Bin Laden isn’t going to change anything.
And like others I had always considered jobs & economy to be first priority, but I can see now that government corruption needs to be first, because until that is fixed NOTHING will change!
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Sounds like Rome. Artists, all.