He’s Baaaack: Roy Moore Elected Chief Justice of Alabama Supreme Court

You remember Roy Moore. He was the Alabama judge who was challenged by the ACLU for posting a copy of the Ten Commandments in his courtroom and began jury deliberations with a prayer for divine guidance. He became the personification of the movement in the United States to reduce the wall of separation between Church and State. Most people assumed that he has returned to well-deserved obscurity. Well guess again. As of last night, he is again the Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court.

Moore was not only known for his contempt for separation principles (a trend that I have written about) but his contempt for basic principles of the rule of law. He was removed after refusing to obey a federal judge’s order to remove a 5,200-pound granite Ten Commandments monument from the lobby of the Alabama Judicial Building. He was later investigated for the misuse of funds of Coral Ridge Ministries for his defense (though no charges were filed).

Moore was elected with the support of that towering legal figure, Chuck Norris, who called him a “true patriot.”

For his part, Moore told supporters last night to “go home with the knowledge that we are going to stand for the acknowledgment of God.” The crowd reportedly responded appropriately with “Amen.”

Source: AL.Com

128 thoughts on “He’s Baaaack: Roy Moore Elected Chief Justice of Alabama Supreme Court

  1. Anyone with an R beside their name wins in these solid red states. Sharon Keller severely compromised the integrity of the judiciary in Texas, and she has won again.

  2. It’s a kooky crowd in Alabama (e.g. Updike, Harvey).

    Welcome to the Deep South Christian Kingdom of Crimson Tide where the not-so-holy trinity of Jeebus, The Bear, and George Wallace are honored, respected and genuflected to. They’d make a nice mosaic don’t you think?

  3. markj11:

    “Sigh. I live in Alabama. Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide.”


    Make for the unoccupied City of Birmingham which is one of the nation’s most liberal, i.e educated. I hear they have a college where you can seek sanctuary.

  4. Considering the election results and NC going back to the Republican fold, I’ll give the prize for dumbest to my fellow Tar Heels. They won’t object. If you regret, you are forgiven your sins against the party. Penance is one year without barbecue.

  5. I often wonder how many people have even visited the states they so cavalierly disparage. Lionel Hampton, Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, Emmy Lou Harris, Hank Williams, Jesse Owens, Carl Lewis, Nat King Cole, Tallulah Bankhead, Joe Louis and Harper Lee are all from Alabama. Ms. Lee showed both the bad and noble part of Alabama. There are good and bad people in every state. There is good and bad in all people. Some awfully judgemental folks here.

  6. nick:

    “I often wonder how many people have even visited the states they so cavalierly disparage. ”


    Been there; done it. Lots of good people there but lots more dumb and ignorant ones. Hence the comment that Ms. Lee would certainly not argue with. As she wrote, there were (and are) lot’s more Robert E. Lee Ewells than Atticus Finchs.

  7. ap:

    ““…a listing of listing of notable people born in, or notable for their association with, Alabama.”


    The question is how many stayed there — not just born there. You have control over the former but not the latter.

  8. In the Continental US the only states I haven’t visited are Texas, Oklahoma,
    Mississippi, Louisiana and Alabama. The only one I regret not visiting is Louisiana, because of New Orleans, Cajun music and food. Vis-a-vis Alabama, my memories of Selma and George Wallace on the school steps remain to vivid for me to add it to my bucket list.

  9. Mike Spindell 1, November 7, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    In the Continental US the only states I haven’t visited are Texas, Oklahoma,
    Mississippi, Louisiana and Alabama. The only one I regret not visiting is Louisiana, because of New Orleans, Cajun music and food. Vis-a-vis Alabama, my memories of Selma and George Wallace on the school steps remain to vivid for me to add it to my bucket list.
    If you ever do visit them, as I have, focus on some of the beautiful nature and human architecture.

    You already know to stay away from the infected minds that give that part of the Earth a bad name.

    Yet, some of the minds there are wonderful … it is just that it takes a long, long time to find them.

    The natural beauty is far easier to locate.

  10. Mark,
    you are correct that it is harder to keep the people in Alabama once they realize what they can achieve in other states. California, Chicago and New York were some of the big destinations for African Americans fleeing the Alabama and other Southern states.

  11. nick,

    As a traveling minstrel I have spent time in every state in the continental U S. but I was in Alabama twice for music and 3 times for the Civil Rights movement. The music time was safe and fun, the Civil Rights time was scary and dangerous.

  12. I’ve been to all 50 states and found something special in each of them. There are a few I’d avoid in the future and some I’d love to revisit. It’s easy to find really great people and real jerks everywhere. And if you’re finding only the jerks, spend your time appreciating the natural or architectural beauty of the place.

  13. I haven’t been to MN, NH, VT, WV, VA, NC, SC, ND, SD, MT, UT, ID, IN, MI and AK. Been everywhere else though. The only places I wouldn’t return to voluntarily are TX, AL, and GA. Not crazy about AR or OK either.

  14. Alabama went for the Dems/Carter in 1976. Barbara Jordon gave the DNC keynote that year. It’s worth revisiting, IMHO:

    An excerpt:

    “And now, what are those of us who are elected public officials supposed to do? We call ourselves public servants but I’ll tell you this: we as public servants must set an example for the rest of the nation. It is hypocritical for the public official to admonish and exhort the people to uphold the common good. More is required of public officials than slogans and handshakes and press releases. More is required. We must hold ourselves strictly accountable. We must provide the people with a vision of the future.

    If we promise as public officials, we must deliver. If we as public officials propose, we must produce. If we say to the American people it is time for you to be sacrificial; sacrifice. If the public official says that, we (public officials) must be the first to give. We must be. And again, if we make mistakes, we must be willing to admit them. We have to do that. What we have to do is strike a balance between the idea , the belief, that government ought to do nothing. Strike a balance.

    Let there be no illusions about the difficulty of forming this kind of a national community. It’s tough, difficult, not easy. But a spirit of harmony will survive in America only if each of us remembers that we share a common destiny.

    I have confidence that we can form this kind of national community.

    I have confidence that the Democratic Party can lead the way. I have confidence. We cannot improve on the system of government handed down to us by the founders of the Republic, there is no way to improve upon that. But what we can do is to find new ways to implement that system and realize our destiny.

    Now, I began this speech by commenting to you on the uniqueness of a Barbara Jordan making the keynote address. Well I am going to close my speech by quoting a Republican President and I ask you that as you listen to these words of Abraham Lincoln, relate them to the concept of national community in which every last one of us participates:

    As I would not not be a slave, so I would not be a master. This expresses my idea of Democracy. Whatever differs from this, to the extent of the difference is no Democracy. ”

    http://www.elf.net/bjordan/keynote.html (full transcript)

  15. Love Barbara Jordan, ap. She could not attend the University of Texas Law School because of segregation. She later returned to teach at the University and died in Austin.

  16. Many of my travels through the U.S. were done in a series of cross-country meanderings in the 70’s. I was by appearances a full-fledged hippie, with hair to my shoulders, full beard and Mexican Wedding shirts open to almost my navel. What was amazing about those times was that in even the most conservative of States, such as Wyoming, the Dakotas and Utah, there was not one negative incident regarding my appearance and many wonderful accepting ones among the straight natives. Hatred and loathing of the other is not a genetic disposition, so much as it is the technique sociopaths use to control people. One of my closest and most long term friends is a classic Reagan Republican, yet there is not a racist, or homophobic bone in his body. It really is never about the politics, it is about who use politics for their self-aggrandizement.

  17. So to the extent that federal funds are involved, I presume we are all paying a little bit of money to support the belief in god and the use of that belief in the workings of the Supreme Court of the State of Alabama. Hmmmm. Render unto Caesar indeed…

  18. The Warmth of Other Suns is a compelling book about the migration north in the eyes of a diverse group of black folk. They left a horrible place but certainly didn’t find Nirvana in the states many of you folks consider “better.” I urge those of you who haven’t read it to do so.

    Mespo, I challenge you to name a state w/o a healthy dose of “dumb and ignorant” people. Maybe there are more in the states you progressives judge as inferior, but I wouldn’t bet a lot on that. I’ve been to every state but Hawaii, Idaho, Wyoming, Montana and North Dakota. I suppose if you encounter people you believe you are “superior” to then that will be a self fulllfulling prophecy. I treat people graciously which is an Italian trait. Almost always it’s returned. My inlaws were big golfers. They were both teachers so when they retired couldn’t afford Florida, Arizona for retirement. They love to golf and found the Biloxi/Gulfport area quite reasonable. Like San Diego where we spend winters, Biloxi is a summer resort and therefore cheaper in thee winter. They are progressive Cheeseheads and loved it down there. We visited a couple times and found it pleasant w/ great people and food, particularly seafood. Life and people are what you make it.

  19. nick, No nirvana in Chicago, Philly or Detroit…..Believe it or not the DFW area has become a magnet for affluent African Americans.

  20. That’s interesting about DFW. I’ve not spent a lot of time there. The problem I see w/ some northern urban areas is the lack of diversity in the black population. Until recently, there were few blacks in Madison, Wi. When I moved here in the mid 80’s very few. In the past couple of decades there has been another migration from Chicago and Milwaukee to Madison. So, all the experience many white folk around here have are w/ poor blacks. There is no middle class to speak of and certainly no affluent black families. Where I grew up in Ct. and when we lived in KC and Chicago there was the full socioeconomic spectrum. The result in Madison, although they would loathe to admit it, is a condescending paternalistic attitude toward black families and subtle and not so subtle prejudice. Combine the equally large influx of Hispanic[almost all Mexican] cuture during the same period. They have a much stronger family structure and an entrepeneurial spirit that poor black families don’t have. So, even w/ the language difference they have leaped over the black Madison culture quickly, creating resentment.

  21. The re-election in Alabama of a “judge” whose understanding of the Constitution is perverted at best is just another piece of evidence that the voters in Alabama are: ill informed, driven by bias that is in amicable to the Constitution and fail to appreciate that they were supposed to be electing a judge not a preacher. American meet one of the American mullahs who want to control this country and make it a theocracy.

  22. Why can’t persons such as Mr. Moore just go away? Always someone wanting to resurrect the past, a phoenix of a most unwelcome kind.

  23. “Some awfully judgemental folks here.” ….NickS…..

    You are so right Nick S. But I only got skit for playing from yout position. It is in my opinion, a little game called self-esteem haussing through hopping on a given object. The same stuff that MikeS had to suffer as a kid.

    So one laughs, ha ha, and joins in (as I did) or you protest as you did.

    Just for now I’ll run with the pack. Reason; You have to prioritize your battles. At least if you need to and can do so. And to be honest, indulging my talent for debasing rhrough insult—meant as a defence from mobbing.

    My admiration, your actions are noted.

  24. Aaaa hee men, Aaaa men, A A men, Amen Amen
    Halluluya, A aaa men, Aaaaa men a aa men a men a men
    Sing it over
    Mster Moore be comin, A aaa men
    On Christmas morning, A aaa men
    With his disciples, A aaa men

    In Alabama, Aaaa men
    People got religion, A aa amen
    With real time Jesus, A aa men

    Adaptation from a song in a certain movie starring a guy named Sidney.

  25. Anonymously Posted,

    Thank you for the Barbara Jordan speech. Where did you get the text? Was it through the EVGONDEMAND.COM as given as source at the end of the video clip?
    I post this hours later, and if for convenience, you see this and wish to answer, then you are welcome to send it to fallingpetals@jhushmail.com

  26. A Mexican, a ten-dollar bill and a folding table makes a business. Hyperbole? Perhaps.
    Free enterprise was never available to the black.

    The white farmers and the white plantation owners kept the black from that. His sustenance was the land, day jobs, and his education need we not mention. Those who rose as a group were quashed, Wiki Wilmington, NC Insurrection (ca 1900). Servicing a market cheaper, but from a slightly lower position was not allowed, but quashed.

    Our major black politician in NC is a descendant of a black doctor who quickly entered the black elite in 1900.
    Catering to the black populations was the only alternative, and he became a millionaire with a retail chain doing just that.

    Taking away a man’s honor leaves him with no pride of family. Is that right or only an excuse? ME and Indians will kill or suicide for honor. Religion?
    Strict codes versus promised land expectations?

    Musings only.

  27. ID, Free enterprise was @ the core of Malcolm X philosophy. He knew that through education and building ones own wealth through creating their own businesses in their own neighborhoods is the way ALL immigrant Americans have gained economic freedom. He also understood that in a capitalist society social justice and equality is determined by wealth, not just laws. If he had not been killed I believe black folks would be MUCH better off than they are now.

  28. nick:

    “Mespo, I challenge you to name a state w/o a healthy dose of “dumb and ignorant” people.”


    I find people on the West Coast more fun, more educated, and more tolerant. So, while they may have a healthy dose of dumb and dumber, they tend to keep that crowd out of the public eye and away from sharp objects or electrical outlets. It’s not about “all or nothing” as you postulate, but more about the general “feel.” In ‘Bama the general “feel” is redneck, real big SUVs,ramshackle residences, and most important if you’re not “one um ’em,” run for your life … except that is in Birmingham.

  29. nick:

    “He also understood that in a capitalist society social justice and equality is determined by wealth, not just laws.”


    Funny that’s not what he said publicly to thousands:

    “You show me a capitalist, and I’ll show you a bloodsucker.”

  30. What a;ways astounds me, and I say this as a graduate of Baylor U., is that people like him consider themselves to be devout Christians, even as they judge like a tyrant — and so many of the public agree with him.

  31. Judicial elections even retention elections like the ones for appellate justices here in California are an abomination and are inconsistent with judicial independence. They need to be abolished.

  32. Mespo, I didn’t say Malcolm liked capitalists, I said he recognized the US as a capitalist society and preached on how to succeed in it. You don’t question the point that he wanted black folks to own the businesses in his community, do you? Malcolm was a realist, MLK, Jr. an idealist. They could have made a great team.

    I grew up in the northeast and find it GENERALLY the least welcoming sector in the US. I have 2 uncles who moved to Vermont from Ct. and it took a decade for them to be accepted. You’re engaging in stereotypes, Mespo. Go to New Hampshire and Maine. Not where the vacationers go, but to where real folk live. They’ll go toe to toe w/ any other state vis a vis rednecks, including Alabama.

  33. nick, at some point before they were assassinated, Malcolm and MLK Jr. got together. It is rumored that Malcolm said something to the effect of “let them see me as radical and you’ll come off as very reasonable.” In fact, once they joined forces and once MLK Jr. also joined forces with black Africans, both were targets. Serious threats to the status quo are not allowed.

  34. Messpo

    Blood sucking capitalists! Seems accurate to me.
    I think even GeneH with his dislike of Nick S would support him in that as Nick s says, these are two different things you compare.

    Success through material success which also creates access is not the same as blood sucking capitalist.

    They both exist.

  35. NY-CT-reared, live in Chicago entire adult life. There are idiots everywhere, but it’s the kind of idiots that differ. A religious kook like Moore couldn’t be elected to the bench here in Chicago, but in IL we do elect judges or, actually, we vote yes or no, and it ain’t pretty.

    One of the judges on the ballot yesterday was Cook County Circuit Court Judge Cynthia Brim who retained her seat with just above the necessary 60% of the required support. Last March Brim had to be removed from her courtroom when it became clear that a 45-minute tirade from the bench wasn’t going to stop on its own. The next day, Judge Brim was arrested for assaulting a sheriff’s deputy in her courtroom. She was suspended and given a Dx of psychologically unfit for duty and has been on leave since the arrest. Her case was continued until today, the day after the election. The local bar associations also advised against her retention, not just because of her behavior over the last year but because of her history in the courtroom prior to her tirade and arrest. Supposedly had serious problems with both temperament and knowledge of the law.

    I do suspect that one difference between Cook County voters and the voters who voted for Moore is that many in AL probably voted for Moore because they knew about his crackpot positions and thought they were just peachy. It’s quite possible that Brim retained her seat in large part because many voters just vote blindly for judges, knowing nothing about the long list of candidates they’re voting on. I wish they’d at least check the local papers and a few websites that publish the lists of the sitting judges and candidates the bar associations recommend for rejection. But no, people just walk in and vote without a clue about who they’re voting for.

    Here’s the Brim story.


  36. Actually, it kind of depends on which Malcolm X you are talking about.

    Pre-Mecca and Post-Mecca, he’s almost two completely different people. The epiphany he had about race while on the Haj really seemed to change his fundamental footing from radical to the point of almost being racist himself into a more realistic but still radical agent seeking social change that was more in comport with the egalitarian views of MLK. I admire Malcolm X a great deal, but when discussing him, I think that dichotomy of his views must always be kept in mind.

  37. This presents an interesting situation. Judge Moore was removed by the Alabama Court of the Judiciary for violations of the Code of Judicial Canons. He was re-elected largely on the strength of his commitment to violate them again. It may be only a matter of time before we encounter another instance in which the judge determines that he will follow God’s law as he understands it rather than some federal court order, and we will be back at square one. Another reason that the popular election of judges is a bad idea.

  38. bettykath, Malcolm and MLK, Jr. did come together somewhat and we can only guess on how that relationship would have evolved. However, make no mistake @ why Malcolm was killed, he was a threat to Elijah Mohmamed and Louis Farrakan…they killed him. The nastiest fights are always intramural.

    Anyone who has watched Spike Lee’s very good flick knows Malcolm had an epiphany after his haj. The epihany was not about his core belief of education and entrepeneuralism, it was about his view of the white man as devil. His epiphany helped change the focus of his ideal of change. It made it more positive, more based upon love than hate. A lesson that transcends just black and white realtionship. A philosophy we all need to embrace.

  39. nick spinelli:

    you got that right about VT, biggest bunch of rednecks I have ever seen.

    That is why they vote for Bernie. :)

  40. Bron, I said NH and Maine is redneck heaven. Vt. has more NYer’s than natives now. That’s why they elect Howard Dean, Bernie and Leahy. Many of the rednecks in NH and Maine don’t vote..they just started walking upright.

  41. The Vermont rednecks are called ‘hunyucks’ but it really is simply poor people.
    At least in Vermont the poor kids still get great public schools. Its a very civilized place with strong families and communities.

    Vermont also held a 5% unemployment rate during the entire recession. A perfect model for strict regulation of Multinational corporations in this state bringing prosperity to the citizens, no doubt.

  42. Shano,

    Vermont is a beautiful state. The residents like to keep it that way. You don’t see huge billboards and gas station signs along the highways. It’s a lovely place to visit. I’d consider moving there–but I’d miss the seacoast too much.

  43. Nick

    “I often wonder how many people have even visited the states they so cavalierly disparage.”

    Is it okay to cavalierly disparage states and/or their residents if you’ve visited them?

  44. Elaine, If it’s warranted..absolutely. But to disparage a state, city, movie, book, person, etc. based on it’s reputation is horseshit..don’t you agree?

  45. Nick,

    I guess it depends on whether a state and its residents have earned their reputation. Would you disparage a state that had Jim Crow laws..a state where the KKK burned crosses on people’s lawns…a state where the powers that be tried to suppress the votes of its citizens?

  46. Elaine, I’m sorry I don’t live in the past like progressives. In Ct. there were Men’s bars. These were bars where women weren’t allowed. And that was in the 1970’s, after Jim Crow laws were abolished. What about Indiana where the KKK started? What about Illinois where it flourished? Elaine I’m sorry I’m raining on the hate the south parade. I am a student of history and to judge a state NOW based on the past..where the vast majority of people living now weren’t even born, is bigoted and small minded.

  47. Gene,

    You’re right about the newer Malcolm X…… He was a prolific racist….

    Something I gleaned from Mike S’s post… Unless you are part of the solution.. You are the problem…..

  48. Nick,

    I think you missed my point. There are places that have bad reputations for a reason. That said, not all people who live in such places are bad people.

    BTW, politicians working to suppress the votes of certain groups of people is not a thing of the past. In fact, it’s been happening in a number of states in recent years.

    Are you sure that the Ku Klux Klan started in Indiana? You’re a student of history. Can you provide me with information about its origins?

  49. Nick,
    Malcolm X was a hero of mine and I thought him tjhe most brilliant speaker I’ve ever heard. While Elijah Mohammed was pary of the murder, the FBI also appeared to have a role.

  50. I know I’m right about Malcolm X, but “prolific racist” was not my terminology. I said “almost [. . .] racist”. I did so purposefully. His early rhetoric was often overheated and some might consider it racist, but I consider it in the context of the times. He was an agitator using deliberately provocative language, but he was an expert rhetorician and a student of human nature. I suspect his epiphany at Mecca had more to do with realizing the heat of his rhetoric was “burning more than it was cooking” and that any solution to the racial strife of his era was going to have to be multiracial in origin in order to be effective.

  51. Apparently Reverend/Judge Moore thinks there are two kinds of law, “organic law” and the stuff he’s supposed to practice in his day job. From past actions he can’t be trusted to keep them separate. He should not be on the bench IMO.
    Oct 24, 2012

    ‘Ten Commandments’ Judge Roy Moore: God punishing the U.S. over marriage equality and abortion”

    “Speaking to around 100 anti-abortion supporters at the Stand Up for Religious Freedom rally on Saturday, former Alabama Supreme Court Chief Justice Roy Moore said that “Satan is out to destroy everything that God has created.”

    “This is not just about religion, this is about law; the organic law of our country,” the candidate explained. “When they pretended to give the right of choice to that woman, they took away the right of life to that child.”

    Moore added that Satan was also “convincing many in our land that they can form a marriage between the same gender. My, how God must be sad about this. He has a controversy with the inhabitants of this land, and until we reject those evils, we shall suffer accordingly.” ….

    “Earlier this year, Moore told conservative talk show host Steve Deace that secular government would eventually lead to Islamic law in the United States because “a government that is denying God” allowed Sharia law to take hold.”


  52. Gene,

    To me the deal with Malcolm X was that he was a Black man from a family that had been torn apart in his youth. He was a youth with extraordinary intelligence, who given the times, looked for his success through criminal activities. I prison he was recruited into the “Black Muslim” movement of Elijah Muhammad, which was an offshoot of the beliefs of Marcus Garvey.

    The beliefs of Muhammad were in clean living through a Muslim lifestyle and separation from the “White Devils” who oppressed them They were against the idea of integration with whites and instead wanted their own piece of the U.S. set aside for Blacks. What was curious about the “Black Muslim” movement was they appealed to the segregationists and in fact there was a famous Life Magazine photo showing a lone “Black Muslim” at a Ku Klux Klan convention.

    On a positive side this movement was extremely entrepreneurial, setting up numerous small businesses in Black communities. They also fought against the use of drugs like heroin in their community. They believed in marriage and true to Islamic tradition were against the use of stimulants like Alcohol and coffee. What Whites found so shocking about them was their disdain for White Culture and their rejection of even interaction with Whites. It was almost comical back the that Whites were offended by them hating “White People” for their maltreatment of Blacks. Part of the reason for Malcolm Little, becoming Malcolm X, was the rejection by the movement of their last names, which their families were give as slaves. This too was ironically found threatening by many Whites at the time. They believed in on-violence, but they would not suffer indiscriminate racist attacks on Blacks.

    The were not part of the initial Civil Rights Movement because they considered the NAACP and Urban League to be “Uncle Tom” movements.
    Partly because Jews had been active in the formation of both organization.
    As “Muslims” they also were against Israel and for their Arab Brothers, consequently they were not friendly to Jews.

    Malcolm X rose quickly in the movement due to his great intelligence and superior oratorical skills. He was a true believer and considered Elijah Muhammad to be like a father to him. As with many “sons” he found his worshiped father to have feet of clay, in that he didn’t practice what he preached. Muhammad by all accounts was a womanizing adulterer, who also drank whiskey, both of which ran counter to his preaching. For his part Muhammad resented Malcolm who was fast becoming recognized as perhaps the real leader of the movement, thus threatening Muhammad’s power. Then too Louis Farrakhan, a former lounge singer, was poisoning the waters with Muhammad shall we say by disparaging Malcom, seeing Malcolm as a rival for potential succession to the leadership of the Nation of Islam movement,

    By then the Civil Rights Movement, with Martin Luther King as the titular leader was in bloom. Elijah Muhammad and his movement disdained the Civil Rights movement because of the many whites who were involved and because the Nation of Islam talked a “good game” at least of meeting violence against Blacks with violence, though there are few documented instances of their ever doing so. This of course was antithetical to MLK’s course which was one of on-violence ala Gandhi.

    Prior to his Haj, Malcolm began to understand that Muhammad was not only falling behind the times, but in fact by his beliefs serving as an impediment to the advancement of Civil Rights. There was also talk of a relationship between the Nation of Islam and J. Edgar hoover’s FBI. To my mind I believe Malcolm. ever extraordinarily intelligent, planned the Haj as a way of beginning his extrication from Muhammad, creation of his own organization and allying with the Civil Rights Movement. He took those steps after the Haj. He was murdered at a scheduled public meeting in Harlem, where he had been threatened to be killed if he went through with it. Because of those threats there were at least two FBI agents present, who managed not to stop the killers. There was more than suspicion that the killers had been sent by Louis Farrakhan, with
    Elijah Muhammad’s approval.

    This was more than 40 years ago so I’m doing it from imperfect memory.
    I have read extensively on it from back then and in the 70’s. Among the books I remember reading was the “Autobiography of Malcolm X” and the scholarly work “Black Muslim’s in America”. This also comes from my living through the era. To me Malcolm X was a man with really great potential. Had he and Dr. King not been murdered they may have altered history for the better, since their skills and their oratory complemented each other. Dr. King had the rich moral tradition of the Black Church behind him, while Malcolm had enormous “Street Cred”. Together they could have offset the ultimately defeating “Black Power” movement and
    truly succeeded in ending this country’s racism.

  53. Mike,

    I’m down with all of that. That’s why I said almost racist. I don’t think Malcolm X was a racist. He was surrounded by a bunch of racists, sure, but as you point to his pre-Haj distancing from Muhammad I think points to his recognition of the folly of the “whitey is the devil” approach.

  54. Mike, Thanks for the historical summary. My knowledge comes from seeing posters of Malcolm and of Malcolm with Dr. King in the Black community. Seeing him as a hero there made me rethink my views based on the msm of the time. That took me to read his autobiography. I agree that the two of them could have changed the history of this country, and that’s why they were assassinated.

  55. WE need a judge that will stand up for God, not like most these idiots that stand up for homos, pedifiles, same sex weird marriage, which are an abomination to the LORD!!!

  56. Elaine, When our president says so eloquently that. “We are not red states, we are not blue states, we are the United States,” I BELIEVE that. However, I am very perceptive and know many of his supporters do not. This “reputation” stuff is telling to me. My question to you is are children required to pay for the sins of their fathers, grandfathers, etc? And how long is that debt owed? And how did states like Virginia, Maryland, NC, SC, Georgia, KY, TN, WV, FLA, etc. get absolution. It seems you and many others just single out Alabama and Mississippi.

    Before you become so judgemental about red states you need to realize black people are much more likely to be killed in blue states and blue cities. LA, Chicago, Detroit, NY, Philly, DC, Newark, etc. than they are in the 2 scarlet letter states. And, if a black person should wander into the Southie or Charlestown neighborhoods of your Boston they are @ greater risk than virtually anywhere else in this country. Those rednecks don’t speak w/ a twang..they roll their R’s.

    The KKK has had many incarnations. One of the biggest and most important, as it were, was the Indiana clan formed in the early 1900’s.

  57. Mike….. Gene…..

    Looking at a historical perspective of Malcolm X….. He was a convicted drug dealer and spent time in the state of MA Correctional system….. He was a woman beater as well as homosexual….that pimped his services…… He found the Muslim practices appealing and if I recall was welcomed by the house Saudi…. He had no use for whites and commonly referred to them as the white blued eyed devil…. He finally saw some error on that part and only tolerated them if they converted to Muslim…… He hated Jews as well….. So if you can defend this as not being racist…. Then by all means do so… I have been to his boyhood home in Lansing and the state of Michigan has a part of its library dedicated to Malcolm X……

    He may have changed some of his radical views later in life…..but facts are facts…..

  58. Bettykath,

    I first saw Malcolm on a “Meet the Press” in the late 50’s. The White Panel was hectoring him, in the way that Whites who didn’t get racism did them and he made mincemeat out of their obnoxious, uninformed questions. I had been brought up in an extremely liberal family and so I could relate to what he was saying. To give you a idea of my family, one of my earliest memories was from 1948 and my mother had returned from a long, recuperative trip in North Carolina. I was sick with the flu at the time and had missed her greatly. She came into the room, with the rest of the family in tow and after saying her hellos to me, began talking about her trip. She was furious with the segregation of Blacks she encountered and went on about the injustice of it for some time. Racism has been a particularly touching subject for me since the and I guess my feelings are intertwined with my mother and my family’s opposition to it.

  59. “He was a convicted drug dealer and spent time in the state of MA Correctional system….. He was a woman beater as well as homosexual….that pimped his services…… He found the Muslim practices appealing and if I recall was welcomed by the house Saudi….”

    All irrelevant to the issue of racism.

    “He had no use for whites and commonly referred to them as the white blued eyed devil….”

    As noted, deliberately provocative rhetoric playing to a crowd (and I mean others high up in the movement) that was indeed racist.

    “He finally saw some error on that part and only tolerated them if they converted to Muslim……”

    That’s one take on it, but just as

    “He hated Jews as well…”

    being a religious bigot is not the same thing as being a racist.

  60. “My question to you is are children required to pay for the sins of their fathers, grandfathers, etc?”


    Elaine can speak for herself, but I’d also like to provide an answer. The “sins” still exist in America today and yes we all are required to deal with redressing them. Institutionalized discrimination did NOT end with the 1964 Civil Rights or with the election of a Black President. Just one example which I’ve previously written about:


  61. Mike, Very good synopsis. I have studied Malcolm in depth and wrote a final paper on him in college. I also had a 5 day lesson plan on Malcolm I taught in my high school history class. The head of my dept. suggested I was spending to much time on Malcolm. I told him the mainstream textbooks and our culture spends plenty of time on MLK, I was going to teach these kids about the man who preached the practical road for black people. Malcolm was in my opinion just as important, and being a pragmatist myself probably more important than MLK. But our hero Malcolm was not as easy for white folk to take as MLK. If Malcolm were not killed I firmly believe the prison/gang culture would not be as pernicious as it is today. He was the man who changed the word from Negro to “black.” I also believe we would not have that pc horseshit as to whether it should be black, African American, person of color, etc. As the great James Brown sang, “Say it loud, I’m black and I’m proud!” And, on a lighter note. My son lives w/ the niece of Brown’s drummer, Clyde Stubblefield. Clyde has diabetes, kidney failure. But, he still performs. My son, like his girlfriend call him “Uncle Clyde.” And he’s got a LOT of stories about the Godfather of Soul!

  62. I agree the “sins” still exist. The question is why are those 2 states the scarlet letter states? I know it was probably 2 of the worst states, but there were plenty other and I submit it’s just as bad in many blue states.

  63. “I agree the “sins” still exist. The question is why are those 2 states the scarlet letter states? I know it was probably 2 of the worst states, but there were plenty other and I submit it’s just as bad in many blue states.”


    Racism is endemic to the entire country, that is true. however, in many of the Southern States the problems and culture there go far beyond racism.
    The cronyism and corruption are recognized parts of the system to the extent that those who bring up Chicago as an example make me laugh.
    It is the total social backwardness of these states that makes them items of derision.

  64. Nick,

    Was I judgmental of Red States? What Red States did I cast aspersions on? Did I say anything about Mississippi and Alabama? As I said in earlier comments–you missed the point that I was trying to make. Don’t misconstrue my comments and read things into what I write. Do I have to keep saying that to you? Another thing: I don’t need to be lectured by you.
    I know there are racists in every state. I saw what happened here in Boston during the school busing crisis.

    You said you were a student of history and stated that the KKK started in Indiana. Is that a fact?

  65. Mike, I reject your conventional wisdom. A look @ the census figures show many blacks leaving the depravity of big blue cities and returning to their roots in the south. And, it’s more than just statistical, just Google black returning to the south and read the stories. Your bias is showing there MikeS, time to question the conventional wisdom who embrace.

  66. Elaine, I have given lectures on civil rights, racism, Malcolm, MLK, etc. when you were lecturing the alphabet and arithmetic. I know I’ve touched a conventional wisdom nerve here. Can the enforcer be far behind..time for a gang bang?

  67. Blouise, Thanks. We share a love of Malcolm, I would love it if this doesn’t devolve into a brouhaha and stays on the positive message of that great man. Vegas has the odds 5-1 against that. I would love to here more stories about Malcolm if you care to share.

  68. rafflaw, I thought “words are the tool of the attorney.” Be more precise and less paternalistic..gangbanger.

  69. Nick,

    If anyone is being judgmental–it is you. You have preconceived ideas of who I am and what I have done during my lifetime. Yet, you have never met me. You know little of my life outside of the fact that I was a teacher and am a guest blogger for the Turley Blawg. You misinterpret my words according to your perception of me and what YOU THINK I am saying. You don’t really have to listen to people because you know what they’re going to say.

    Pray tell, what is the conventional wisdom nerve that you have touched on here? Are you trying to say that you are going to be the victim once again of those here who don’t agree with you?

  70. I got a Christmas card from a friend once.
    On the front, it said, “People say we should put the ‘Christ’ back in Christmas.” There was a pretty creche scene.
    When you opened the card there was a portrait of Malcolm X.
    The message read:
    “I say we should put the ‘X’ back in Malcolm.”

  71. nick,

    I learned a long time ago to discipline my comments about Malcolm … I state what I know to be true. He’s a touchstone.

  72. I’m sure you do…http://jtf.org/america/america.malcolm.x.homosexual.htm

    Just because one reports the facts….. Never heard of this site before…. I’m sure it’s slanted…. But it serves this purpose well…..

    If you now label me a racist …. It will show your true colors as you know quite well I am not….. It’s particular people I do not like…. Not a race or a faith….

  73. You lil’ scamps have been busy.

    I’m pretty sure no one thinks you’re a racist, AY. But as Mike alludes to, Malcolm X was neither saint nor sinner. He was – as are most – a bit of both. Like him? Don’t? Your choice. No one’s going to fault you one way or the other. I admire the journey he took and where it led him – which to be clear wasn’t a perfect place but certainly a better place than where he started – and I don’t find him racist post-Haj. Agree to disagree is fine, however, I think comparing defending Malcolm X to saying Hitler was just misunderstood is fairly hyperbolic. I’m pretty sure Malcolm never engaged in industrial genocide.


    Oooo. More professional self proclaimed victimization by the guy with the “incredible people skills”. How very exciting expected.

  74. Gene,

    Was just throwing that out as a block…..preemptive as a safety net…..you know what I mean without having to rehash last year….

    And comparing Malcolm Little to Adolf….Is one of those rethorical euphemisms…. I think you’ve used them before….

  75. We’re on the same page then, AY.

    And hyperbole? Me? Never. *snicker*snort*giggle* Yeah, I almost said that with a straight face. :D

  76. Blouise, I need to make a note to myself to stay off this blog on Thursdays. I will tell you why in an email. ;)

  77. Blouise, I respect confidentiality. One of the reasons my clients hired me was because they knew that was in the bank when they did.

  78. And, Touchstone was one of my favorite Sakespearean characters, the court jester voice of the Bard in, As You Like It. Malcolm would be a precious one.

  79. The marble monument had text inscribed on it that is on buildings in Washington DC. The 10 Commandments is on the wall in the Supreme Court. There wasn’t anything new or unique about the monument, except the ACLU had a hissy fit to have it removed. The separation between church and state was intended to keep the government out of the church. Such doesn’t even apply to the marble monument. Judge Moore is an honorable person that had the guts to stand up against idiotic groups like the ACLU. It’s shameful, but predictable, to read such ad hominem attacks against him.

  80. judge did you know that THE BIBLE says that GOD is coming to the earth as a man. and you voted on issues that are contrary to GOD.

    the judge asked for divine guidance. since the judge voted against GOD, he should go shoot himself for thinking and talking as an antichrist cleric that apparently the judge sees daily.

    THE BIBLE says that the christians will not know how far off they are from what GOD wants, and those who do not believe will go to hell for ever.

    judge, did you vote against gays, and lesbians? how about voting against abortion? How about voting against GOD?

    like I said judge, go shoot yourself! I will put the TEN COMMANDMENTS in every court house and school in case the parents are to lazy to teach their children values. that is why parents send their children to church and Bible schools. they are to f’ in lazy.

    judge do you believe in GOD or your church…, IT IS WRITTEN that babylon (babble on) will be destroyed. what are the sons of baptists saying? if your church said, or says that I am not real, you and they all go to hell. THE BIBLE says to look every where. and if your not reading this web site then your not following GOD. maybe some body will email you because I won’t. if nobody tells you you might want to consider the fact that wants you in HEAVEN either. but it says in prophecy that all christian clergy will hang them selves from the highest girder and that the height from that girder should be posted on the door since 1988. should any body need to help the preacher to hang himself.

    since the antichrists are saying that it could be ten thousand years. ask them what the nick of time is? the big rock gets here next decade.

    churches were told that about websites, and that I am here and have denied MY presence.

    the ring of fire is around the pacific, not johnny cash. what would a war in HEAVEN look, and sound like?

    GOD has not received any tithes, the clerics keep it all. that is theft and the judge asked for Divine guidance.

  81. I’ll still love her even if she doesn’t love me.She’s under the weather.It appears to be a true story. Do you realize that all of these shirts are half off?I’m On your side.It sounds like you enjoyed itIt sounds like you enjoyed itYou should look at it yourself.Yes,I suppose So.What we read influences our thinking.

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