Israeli officials are being quoted today of accusing the United States of fostering protests against the decision of Benjamin Netanyahu’s government to build 3,000 settlers’ homes and develop an area of the West Bank. The renewed settlement plans are widely viewed as destabilizing the area and attempting to undermine a viable Palestinian state.
What is most striking is the suggestion that the Obama Administration does not have the guts to confront Israel directly and must politically use surrogates. Five European countries, Australia and Brazil joined other countries in denouncing the move. Netanyahu has responded in his signature way by refusing to yield and going on the attack. His aides have said that the real country opposing the move is the United States. The obvious suggestion is that the Administration does not want to trigger a backlash in Congress by opposing Israel directly so it is using allies to push the issue.
The plans to build 1,700 homes in Ramot Shlomo in east Jerusalem and another 2,600 in Givat Hamatos are moving forward. The Ramot Shlomo development was shelved in 2010 after it provoked a row with the US.
The result is we can now add Israel to Iran, Syria, and Russia as countries claiming U.S. inspired protests.
Source: Telegraph
Sounds like Obama is getting in touch w/ his inner Nixon. He’s a Chicago pol, which comports w/ the Nixonian political philosophy.
What? An ally might disapprove of your administration acting to exacerbate a situation that could plunge all involved parties into war and is blatantly callous and provocative to the Palestinians and a threat to regional stability? Who’d have thunk it, Benjamin!
“Sounds like Obama is getting in touch w/ his inner Nixon. He’s a Chicago pol, which comports w/ the Nixonian political philosophy.”
Nick,
That statement is errant nonsense and just your gratuitous way of insulting someone you dislike. If you want to be taken seriously, as you appear to desire, statements like this make it impossible to take your comments seriously.
I try to stay out of I/P discussions, because no matter what one says, it is likely to start a flame war. However, I think Bibi’s current actions are way too deliberately provocative. In some ways he reminds me of George Bush, but much better looking. When you are sitting on an opened powder keg, it is a good idea to avoid lighting up a cigar.
Obey Propaganda…..
So would Isreal prefer that we instead DIRECTLY confront it ? Sometimes people / govt’s get what they wish for.
Now to the issue at hand. Netanyahu is quite frankly a belligerent idiot who is the puppet for the extreme religious right wing in Israel and due to that is a danger to the existence of the country he leads. I write this as a life-long supporter of Israel’s right to exist. From a factual standpoint Israel has every right to the territories it conquered in the 1967 war when they were attacked by an overwhelming force consisting of the many nations that surround them. Indeed these territories were originally part of the U.N. Mandate, but were overrun in Israel’s war of Independence in 1948.
However, Israel needs to use these territories as not only a bargaining chip for peace, via a “two-state” solution, but also needs to rid themselves of them and thus not have to deal with ruling over people who don’t want to be ruled. The latter would continue to present Israel with an untenable, unsolvable problem if it wanted to maintain its identity as the “Jewish” State. Building the settlements began as the work of Menachem Begin and his Likud Party to prevent any return of these territories to Arabs. It was in my opinion an act of sublime stupidity. Even Meir Kahane, perhaps the most radically Right Wing of Israeli political leaders understood that you could not maintain a “Jewish” State by a system of apartheid.
His solution was to expel the Arabs, just as 600,000 Jews had been expelled from the surrounding Muslim States. His solution was not viable either, given World opinion, but he at least recognized the problem.
The interesting nuance in this ongoing problem is that the one most legitimate solution to it is never mentioned, nor desired by the States involved. The West Bank and East Jerusalem were prior to 1967 part of Jordan. Gaza was under the aegis of Egypt and considered part of it. If Israel is to give back the territories it won in the 1967 War as a condition of peace, it would make the most sense to give them back to the countries that lost them. The conundrum is that either Jordan nor Egypt wants them back. These territories would present difficulties for either country, as Jordan learned when the PLO via Black September tried to overthrow its regime and take over.
The only viable option for Israel is a “Two State” solution and unfortunately Netanyahu is not helping that to occur by his further building efforts.
OS,
My only disagreement with you is that to give the devil his due, George W. is in my opinion far better looking the Bibi. and both of them have that characteristic sneer.
“Sounds like Obama is getting in touch w/ his inner Nixon. He’s a Chicago pol, which comports w/ the Nixonian political philosophy.”
Nick,
I am sure your would wish to be an unbiased person who likes to reason with himself about the facts. I wish you all the best in your endeavour, as we all hope to get better and open minded, so that we can embrace the humanity sans bias.
I hope you know that this claim is totally false but you jumped on its bandwagon without giving it a second thought or reasoning with yourself for clarity.
Now, the question arises, why are we here today where Israel is blatantly in violations of any laws one may bring up, or better,in violation of human dignity by building settlements on an occupied land that does not belong to them?
It is because Israel is acting the same way as many people including the Jews were treated during the WWll by the fiendish people.
I have some questions for you and I hope that u answer them honestly.
1. How many Israelis are rotting in Palestinians jails without any due process?
2. How many Palestinian women, children and young men are rotting in Israeli prisons without any due process?
3. How many Palestinians have been killed so far by the Israeli armed forces in the past 10 years and the same goes for the Israelis having been killed by the Palestinians?
4. Who has the air, road and sea access to the West Bank and the Gaza at will, the Palestinians or the IDF?
5. How many Jews voted for President Obama in the last elections?
6. Who did PM Netanyahu want to win the US elections and for what purpose even though the polls in Israel showed the opposite wish of the Israeli people?
7. How many settlements have Israeli illegally built on the occupied land and how many have the Palestinians?
8. And, lastly; how did you come to the conclusion that the above news is based on facts? If you know the facts, please do not hesitate to share with us.
Please give it a thought to the above questions without getting emotional and respond.
If Israel keeps on doing what it is doing, it will end up being occupied the other Semite people.:-)
It’s like the US wears a big “Kick Me” around it’s neck where Israel is concerned.
I mean if the treacherous saga of the USS Liberty” could be shoved under the rug due to the “special relationship”, why would Israel feel free to treat the US like it’s vassal?
Perhaps Congress will pass a resolution of apology just because, you know, Israel would never tell a scurrilous lie to keep Uncle Sucker in line.
Mike S, says “However, Israel needs to use these territories as not only a bargaining chip for peace, via a “two-state” solution, but also needs to rid themselves of them and thus not have to deal with ruling over people who don’t want to be ruled. ”
I think we kid ourselves if we don’t at least admit the strong possibility that the “greater Israel” is the actual goal and precious little land with be “returned” to create some possible, weak, subservient, unarmed, future Palestinian state.
“I think we kid ourselves if we don’t at least admit the strong possibility that the “greater Israel” is the actual goal and precious little land with be “returned” to create some possible, weak, subservient, unarmed, future Palestinian state.”
DonS,
If you reread my comment perhaps you’ll see that your above statement is implicit in my thinking. I have no doubt that is where Netanyahu is trying to go. He is both wrong and stupid to think in that direction.
Sorry if I misread it Mike. cheers!
“From a factual standpoint Israel has every right to the territories it conquered in the 1967 war when they were attacked by an overwhelming force consisting of the many nations that surround them.”
Your statement is simply incorrect. The UN Charter specifically denies any right of conquest to territory. Also, Israel launched the ’67 war and the Arabs surrounding them were hardly overwhelming force as Israel promptly crushed them militarily in six days (hence the name, the Six Days War).
“The interesting nuance in this ongoing problem is that the one most legitimate solution to it is never mentioned, nor desired by the States involved. The West Bank and East Jerusalem were prior to 1967 part of Jordan. Gaza was under the aegis of Egypt and considered part of it.”
It’s not a “legitimate” solution at all. The Palestinian people do not want to be ruled by Jordanians or Egyptians, so this idea fails the right of self determination. Second, the West Bank and East Jerusalem prior to 1967 were occupied by Jordan but never legitimately part of Jordan. Just as Israel did not acquire a right to land by conquering and occupying it, so to did Jordan never acquire a right to the land. Same goes for the Gaza Strip. You are correct however that neither Jordan or Egypt want to rule over Palestinians who don’t want to be a part of their respective countries. I suspect you’re wrong however that Israel would not welcome this solution provided that got to keep the parts of the West Bank and Jerusalem that they want for themselves as Jordan and Egypt have a lot more to lose than the Palestinians and are more likely to be able to maintain peace and security for Israel.
The sad part about this story is that it is entirely plausible that Obama would use surrogates to condemn Israel. The US is a great super power that hands Israel billions of dollars in aid and provides diplomatic cover internationally. Yet, we’re afraid to openly criticize Israel’s actions that undermine our foreign interests. AIPAC has way to much influence on our foreign policy.
MikeS, Hopefully this is the last time I need to say this. I like Obama, I donated $ to him in 2008. However, like so many people, I am saddened by the president he has shown to be in many areas. Many others lambast Obama but apparently they have street…err Turley cred, to do so w/o being called “nonsensical.”
Let’s get to the subject @ hand. The CIA does foster demonstrations, unrest, and even government overthrows..that’s what they do! Dem and Repub. presidents have used those services. We have a president who has shown not only a willingness, but a proclivity to kill people w/ drones. I don’t like the overuse of this for the same reasons many here don’t, but also for practical reasons. Dead men give no information. Human intelligence is crucial in ferreting out future attacks. So..we have a president more than happy to kill people, including US citizens, from above. Why are you so sure he wouldn’t engage in this much less draconian measure. And your hatred of Bibi clouds your thinking.
Finally, is there a star chamber that decides who “is taken seriously”? Or is just you?
I just can’t be very sympathetic towards a religious state. It doesn’t really matter which religious state. If religious discrimination is built into a government, I am against it. As for Israel in specific, what the hell else do they want from us? It’s as if this is some sort of head game to see how far we will let them take this before we get overtly angry. Their government is doing a lot of things that go against the principals of our government theory, and what many of our citizens hold as personal values. As the number of states siding with them is on the decrease, and the number of states who have conflict with us partially because we support them is increasing, how far will they expect us to bend over back ward? I think this issue is absolutely at it’s tipping point, and it is volatile enough that I can’t say I even now what ANY possible outcome would be.
I even *know
Mike,
Somewhere in this present day mess one can find the Brits … dig deep.
Waldo: “The UN Charter specifically denies any right of conquest to territory.”
Waldo,
If you want to talk about the UN, then let us go back to 1947 and to the General Assembly Resolution 181(II) which mandated the boundaries of the area. The West Bank ad Gaza were part of Israel. There was no “Palestinian State” only Jordan and Egypt. That was the original wishes of the UN.
Waldo: “Also, Israel launched the ’67 war and the Arabs surrounding them were hardly overwhelming force as Israel promptly crushed them militarily in six days (hence the name, the Six Days War).”
My following quote which shows you are wrong about the forces threatening Israel were taken from this Wiki link ,which if you read it, you will find is very fair to both sides in its analysis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War
Wiki: “On the eve of the war, Egypt massed approximately 100,000 of its 160,000 troops in the Sinai, including all of its seven divisions (four infantry, two armored and one mechanized), four independent infantry brigades and four independent armored brigades. No fewer than a third of them were veterans of Egypt’s intervention into the Yemen Civil War and another third were reservists. These forces had 950 tanks, 1,100 APCs and more than 1,000 artillery pieces.”
Wiki: “Syria’s army had a total strength of 75,000 and amassed them along the Syrian border.Jordan’s army had 55,000 troops and 300 tanks along the Jordanian border, 250 of which were U.S. M48 Patton, sizable amounts of M113 APCs, a new battalion of mechanized infantry, and a paratrooper battalion trained in the new U.S.-built school. They also had 12 battalions of artillery and six batteries of 81 mm and 120 mm mortars.
Documents captured by the Israelis from various Jordanian command posts record orders from the end of May for the Hashemite Brigade to capture Ramot Burj Bir Mai’in in a night raid, codenamed “Operation Khaled”. The aim was to establish a bridgehead together with positions in Latrun for an armored capture of Lod and Ramle. The “go” codeword was Sa’ek and end was Nasser. The Jordanians planned for the capture of Motza and Sha’alvim in the strategic Jerusalem Corridor. Motza was tasked to Infantry Brigade 27 camped near Ma’ale Adummim: “The reserve brigade will commence a nighttime infiltration onto Motza, will destroy it to the foundation, and won’t leave a remnant or refugee from among its 800 residents”.
100 Iraqi tanks and an infantry division were readied near the Jordanian border. Two squadrons of fighter-aircraft, Hawker Hunters and MiG 21, were rebased adjacent to the Jordanian border.
On June 2, Jordan called up all reserve officers, and the West Bank commander met with community leaders in Ramallah to request assistance and cooperation for his troops during the war, assuring them that “in three days we’ll be in Tel-Aviv”.The Arab air forces were aided by volunteer pilots from the Pakistan Air Force acting in independent capacity, and by some aircraft from Libya, Algeria, Morocco, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia to make up for the massive losses suffered on the first day of the war.” <Wiki
Now doing the math there were about 230,000 Egyptian, Syrian and Jordanian troops massed on the Israeli borders. With an additional 60,000 Egyptian Troops also in the Sinai. Plus the Iraqi infantry division of 15,000 lined up on the border. Israel on the other hand had:
Wiki "The Israeli army had a total strength, including reservists, of 264,000, though this number could not be sustained, as the reservists were vital to civilian life"
The forces against Israel had at least 41,000 more troops available, which is a considerable advantage. Also to be factored in was that in 1957 the U.S. was not supplying equipment, like airplanes to the Israeli's, while the Russians were supplying aircraft to the Egyptians and Syrians, with Jordan being supplied by Great Britain. Also at the time the population surrounding Israel was about 150 million people and Israel had a population of 6 million. Quite a difference in resources.
"It’s not a “legitimate” solution at all. The Palestinian people do not want to be ruled by Jordanians or Egyptians, so this idea fails the right of self determination. Second, the West Bank and East Jerusalem prior to 1967 were occupied by Jordan but never legitimately part of Jordan."
There is no historical basis for the statement that the West Bank was never legitimately a part of Jordan. They ran it and they were recognized as having sovereignty there. As for what the legitimate aspirations of the "Palestinian" people on the West Bank were then, that is a moot point, in the same way that the Kurds have aspirations in Iraq and in Turkey. Many ethnic groups wish to be separate from the country they are in and some succeed. Like the Serbs and the Croats. The difference is that there exists between those two groups a religious difference, even though they are of the same culture. There is o difference in ethnicity between the Arabs and the Palestinians, they are of one ethnicity. Their desire for independence comes out of a strictly political context that deals mainly with the fact that Islam does not want a Jewish State existing in what they consider their territory. The indigenous Arabs fled Israel during the 1948 war having been assured that they would be allowed to return once "the
Jews were swept into the Sea". Didn't work out like that and their Arab brothers kept them bottled up in concentration camps, stoking their seething anger at their displacement. Their number at the time was 600,000. What is true, but soon forgotten is that during that same time around 600,000 Jews were deported from Arab lands like Iraq and Syria, with all their possessions confiscated. They were all resettled as Israeli citizens.
I don't expect though that I can use actual history to change your mind and it would be a waste of time to try to. You have your opinion regarding the "evil"
Israeli's and I have mine. However, I would suggest that you do some studying on the real culprit for the angst in the Middle East and that is Saudi Arabia.
I would submit to you that it is really the number one U.S. ally in the ME, or alternatively the U.S. is their number one minion. The Saudi's have ample reasons for wanting this conflict to continue indefinitely.
“Somewhere in this present day mess one can find the Brits … dig deep.”
Blouise,
Just like you this whole history is almost contemporaneous to our lives. Remember the “Arab Legion” of Jordan, led by a British General? The Brits are part and parcel of it all and oil has always been their game.
“I just can’t be very sympathetic towards a religious state. It doesn’t really matter which religious state.”
Abjectbooks,
I get where you’re coming from. So I take it you think that the Saudi’s, Iranian’s, Iraqi’s, Afghans, Pakistani’s, Indonesians and now Egyptians are illegitimate States also, since they are all under religious laws? That entails about one billion or so people. There are perhaps 12 million Jews worldwide, is a 7 million plus Jewish State such a problem to you.
The truth really is that the largest foreign lobbyist in the U.S. from the ME region is the Saudi’s. The money they spend dwarfs AIPAC and incidentally I’m not a fan of that misguided organization. The Saudi’s are the quintessential religious state. the U.S. role in the ME is as Israel’s keeper, not as its ally. That is only a pretense for the rubes of the world. The Israeli’s understand this, but have little choice but to play along.
“MikeS, Hopefully this is the last time I need to say this. I like Obama”
Nick,
Hopefully this is the last time I have to write this: When you make categorical statements, with no factual basis, using stereotypes to make your point I will call you out on it. That is what you did above.
“Why are you so sure he wouldn’t engage in this much less draconian measure.”
I’m not sure, I surmise it because it makes little sense for him to do so and much sense given Bibi’s positions that he would spread this to deflect the fact that he did something that has garnered great disapproval and he is coming into an election.
“Finally, is there a star chamber that decides who “is taken seriously”? Or is just you?”
There is no “star chamber” Nick and I don’t remember any censorship of your remarks at any point. However, for someone who has come on with such bombast from your beginning on the blog, you certainly claim victimization when someone disagrees with you. My comments are my own here and always have been. There is no cabal at work of “Ins” and “Outs” and ones respect is gained by the logic of ones argument and the value of ones comments. In many instances your arguments have been illogical and I and others have called you out on that.
Some of your comments such as the one above display a certain type of stereotypical sort of thinking, which I find annoying
Mike,
And the only troops who enjoyed success against the Israelis were the British trained Jordanian troops.
However, in your views concerning Saudi Arabia (an up-start kingdom that evolved around the same time as the emergence of Israel, both taking advantage of the vacuum that developed after WW II and Britain’s Empire collapse) … have you considered the common enemy, Iran, that these 2 countries share … have always shared?
I am suggesting that Israel works more closely with Saudi Arabia than either country wants the world to see.
Blouise, The Saudis would not shed any tears if Israel took out Iran.
Mike S, thanks for the detailed comments and the historical perspective. Most ordinary Americans I have met who (a) are not Jewish and (b) discuss Israel and the troubles in the Middle East assume, because of their cursory reading of current events, that the Jews swept into Israel in 1948 and stole all the land from the Palestinians who had previously owned it. They have no idea that any refugees from Europe who settled there BOUGHT land or that Jewish Agencies BOUGHT any land. They thought there was an Arab state there called “Palestine” run by “Palestinians.” They thought the Jews just took it over and they forgave them for doing so because of the Holocaust, but then they began to unforgive them and to equate their aggressive behavior NOW with Germany’s aggressive behavior in 1940! They have only the thinnest, fact-free understanding of what has gone on in the Middle East in the 20th Century or before — as if Jesus was there in Year One, and then there were some crusades and then there were a bunch of camels and THEN the Jews crowded in and pushed the Palestinians out.
As someone who feels as free to criticize Bibi (whom I consider one of the most dangerous people in the world) as I do to criticize Putin and George W, I still consider it my right and duty to recognize how the Israelis (both Jewish and non-Jewish) have had to deal with history, including but not limited to CURRENT history. So, as I say, I appreciate the great job you have done in your comments on this thread. Any thoughts about collecting them and some other topics and publishing a book? I’ll give you a free edit. (I’m good at correcting the apostrophes.)
Mike,
As to “contemporaneous to our lives”, the first donation I ever made was when, in 1959, at the age of 14, I donated $20 to the Plant a Tree fund through the auspices of my second chair cello buddy’s dad who was a physician traveling to Israel to help staff a new hospital.
SwM,
No doubt and both were quite pleased when Bush eliminated Iraq … Saddam Hussein had outlived his usefulness.
World War One could be regarded as one starting point whose solutions led to today’s problems through the British Mandate Soon a hundred years have gone since.
Just a few, not central, questions.
How does one expell 600,000 jews and not cause political problems on the world stage?
How can one NOT expell 600,000 arabs from the territories granted by the UN to Israel BECAUSE of expected political problems on the world stage?
I would, in my usual answer, assume that oil and now the need for continuous conflict to maintain the drain of the MIC on our nation, is the deepest and least discussed answer to the problem.
MikeS,
One point in disagreement. The existence of several religious states does not justify adding another one of another faith. Faith based states are kinda bad as the muslims keep reminding us. But that is quibbling. Apologies.
But you got the UN mandate, so be it. It is Israel’s (and the jews) fate to try. Good luck.
Malisha and Mikes,
Let mr suggest a title: “What every goy should know”
MikeS, A few questions. Where did I engage in a stereotype? How can my calling you on the “if you want to be respected” in anyway constitute me being a victim. That seems to be a boilerplate shoot from the hip accusation from a few here when I call “bullsh!t”. Are only you allowed to “surmise” about this? What makes your “surmise” more credible, the fact that I’m not a member of the tribe? I see your point about Netanyahu, and say it’s a good take. You need to ask yourself if your derision for Bibi clouds your assessment. I still believe the CIA doing this is also credible. Neither of us know, on that we should be able to agree. Which makes your reaction or overreaction curious.
“However, in your views concerning Saudi Arabia (an up-start kingdom that evolved around the same time as the emergence of Israel, both taking advantage of the vacuum that developed after WW II and Britain’s Empire collapse) … have you considered the common enemy, Iran, that these 2 countries share … have always shared?
I am suggesting that Israel works more closely with Saudi Arabia than either country wants the world to see.”
Blouise,
The Saud family history dates much further back than their founding in 1932. The history actually goes back to 1744. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia This family represents past masters at playing “The Game of Thrones”. The Israeli’s do’t have the resource (oil) the Saudi’s have and they don’t have the long inter-connectedness to the International Corporate Elite. I have no doubt that they are manipulating Israel and that Israel is manipulating them. The problem is that by playing the Saudi’s game, which is to continue the strife with the Palestinians, the Israeli’s are watching the basis of their society fray. How many years can a country exist in what is a virtual state of war. This is why truculent fools like Bibi get elected. now it is true that the number one threat to Saudi hegemony in the ME is Iran. Don’t you find it interesting how Iran has become such a bogeyman of late? Especially, since regimes such as Pakistan and North Korea have atomic weaponry and much crazier environments.
“Any thoughts about collecting them and some other topics and publishing a book?”
Malisha,
A book was published years ago called “From time Immemorial” by Peters. It has a good deal of the story, though there have been efforts to question it put forth.
Mike,
Waldo,
“If you want to talk about the UN, then let us go back to 1947 and to the General Assembly Resolution 181(II) which mandated the boundaries of the area. The West Bank ad Gaza were part of Israel. There was no “Palestinian State” only Jordan and Egypt. That was the original wishes of the UN.”
Resolution 181 most emphatically did not make the West Bank and Gaza part of Israel! Resolution 181 was a plan for the partition of the Palestinian Mandate and the creation of independent Arab and Jewish states. The West Bank and Gaza (and some additional territory in the Palestinian Mandate) were intended to be part of the Arab state. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine
“My following quote which shows you are wrong about the forces threatening Israel were taken from this Wiki link ,which if you read it, you will find is very fair to both sides in its analysis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War”
I think we’re going to have to agree to disagree about the relative military strengths of the Israeli and Arab forces in 1967. I’ll simply make the observation that military strength is not determined solely by numbers of troops or tanks. There are innumerable examples of a numerically inferior military force being much superior in military power. A couple of recent examples would be the US wars with Iraq where the US military took minimal casualties and crushed the numerically superior Iraqi forces in weeks (days?). Likewise, the Israelis in fact quickly and easily crushed the Arab forces against them in 1967. I’m confident that the overwhelming number of military historians, Jew, Muslim, etc., would agree that Israel was vastly superior in military force rather than they got lucky. Regardless, this is merely an academic question without bearing on any present day realities.
“There is no historical basis for the statement that the West Bank was never legitimately a part of Jordan. They ran it and they were recognized as having sovereignty there.”
No, they were NOT generally recognized as having sovereignty there. Jordan purported to annex the West Bank. Their annexation was never recognized by the US, the UN, or the overwhelming majority of countries (the UK and Pakistan were the only countries in the world to recognize Jordan’s annexation). Jordan was a separate country that only came to occupy the West Bank during the 1949 war with Israel. It wasn’t their territory before the war. You don’t legitimately acquire territory by conquest. They were not internationally recognized as the legitimate owner of the West Bank.
“As for what the legitimate aspirations of the “Palestinian” people on the West Bank were then, that is a moot point,”
I think we’re going to have to agree to disagree on whether what the people on the ground want should matter or not.
“I don’t expect though that I can use actual history to change your mind and it would be a waste of time to try to. You have your opinion regarding the “evil” Israeli’s and I have mine. However, I would suggest that you do some studying on the real culprit for the angst in the Middle East and that is Saudi Arabia.”
If you’re going to be condescending, it’s best to at least get your facts right. BTW, I don’t consider the Israelis “evil.” I support the existence of Israel. I recognize that there’s a lot of Arabs in that part of the world that want to see Israel disappear and that there’s a lot of historical animosity and grievances on both sides.
“One point in disagreement. The existence of several religious states does not justify adding another one of another faith. Faith based states are kinda bad as the muslims keep reminding us.”
ID707,
It’s not that I’m in love with the idea of a religious state per se, so your point is well taken. I would remind you though that Israel was founded as a secular, socialist state for the Jewish People. The thinking behind it, with some justification, was that without a homeland the Jewish People would spend their existence living off the changing hospitality of host countries.
People forget that anti-Jewish feeling was strong in this country up to and past the end of WWII. Arthur Godfrey, a famous Radio/TV personality owned a hotel in Miami Beach which up until the end of the 1960′s didn’t allow Jews. This was indeed rather common in Miami Beach. Jews were not allowed to live or rent in the best areas until the early 60′s.
As a Jew having Israel is a comforting thought to me because knowing history as I do, I understand that no matter how prosperous the Jewish situation is in a Foreign Land and no matter how tolerant the land may be, things can change at a whim. The Jews were expelled from England by Edward II because he borrowed money from them that he decided not to pay back. Spain expelled its Jews which had lived there for five hundred years in 1492. And so it goes and has gone on and on.
I ask people to imagine being part of a tribal/religious heritage that dates back almost 4,000 years. Whose members have distinguished themselves in all walks of life. Whose religious ideas inspired two of the worlds largest religions. Whose scholarship has help enrich humanity. Finally, whose chief tenet religiously is to help in healing the world. My heritage is one that I am proud of to the fiber of my being. Yet having this heritage can prove to be deadly to myself, my family and my friends who share it. I am an American, born and bred. I love this country with all its faults, yet as a pragmatic person I’m glad that there is one place in this world that if need be me and mine could escape to and thus I support its existence. The history in this link supports my caution: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_St._Louis
“Are only you allowed to “surmise” about this?”
Nick,
Obviously not, thus your comments.
“That was the original wishes of the UN.”
Resolution 181 most emphatically did not make the West Bank and Gaza part of Israel! Resolution 181 was a plan for the partition of the Palestinian Mandate and the creation of independent Arab and Jewish states. The West Bank and Gaza (and some additional territory in the Palestinian Mandate) were intended to be part of the Arab state”
Waldo,
I got that wrong on that and I admit it.. However, if you read further in your link:
“The Plan was accepted by the leaders of the Jewish community in Palestine, through the Jewish Agency. The Plan was rejected by leaders of the Arab community, including the Palestinian Arab Higher Committee, who were supported in their rejection by the states of the Arab League. The Arab leadership (in and out of Palestine) opposed partition and claimed all of Palestine”
So in the end the Arabs refused to abide by the UN plan and war ensued where they actually fared much worse. your original point was that Israel was acting against a U mandate, that is shown to be a fault shared by not only Israel, but by their neighbors.
“Jordan was a separate country that only came to occupy the West Bank during the 1949 war with Israel. It wasn’t their territory before the war. You don’t legitimately acquire territory by conquest. They were not internationally recognized as the legitimate owner of the West Bank.”
Their continued occupation of the West Bank was a “fait accompli” and were there no 1967 War they would have remained there. You give far too much credit to UN recognition and far little to political realities.
I appreciate that you support Israel’s existence. I apologize for being condescending. However, we do have much that we disagree on, including the history of the area.
Personally think that every time a bomb is lobbed by Palestinian’s, Israel should build a new house. Every month that goes by that Palestinian’s have not lobbed a bomb, a home in the disputed lands is demolished.
Uh, Beverelliee dahlin, do you have any idea how many illegal settlements, not to mention houses, Israel has built in the “territories”? Um, I thought not. Well, do the math, and if you come up with anything favorable to the Palestinians within, say, a thousand generations, get back to us.
Mike,
“Don’t you find it interesting how Iran has become such a bogeyman of late? ”
Yes … but then they are Persian.
“Iran’s attempts to gain supremacy in the region are not triggered by political ambition as much as by a racist drive that pushes Iranians to prove they are superior, the professor (Sadek Zibakalam, the University of Tehran) said.” Interesting article when you have the time: http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2011/10/09/170927.html
As to Saudi history, I was mainly referring to King Abd-al-Aziz – known as the Lion of Najd – who took over Hijaz from the Hashemite family and united the country under his family’s rule in 1932 … the Al Sauds, if you will. It was that taking of the Hijaz region – the birthplace of the Muslim Prophet Muhammad and the cradle of Islam from the Hashemite family that got the modern ball rolling … that they also sit on more than 25% of the world’s known oil reserves doesn’t hurt but in 1932 that wasn’t known. The oil was found in 1936-38 (accounts differ) by American Geologists who had been commissioned by the King to find water.
When I mention the Brits role in all this, I’m referring to BP v Saudi-Aramco
Now we know that the whole of the West Bank (and Gaza?) was not UN granted to Israel. We also know that Jordan got the West Bank by seizing it.
But did not Jordan abandon the West Bank to have a place to expell the troublesome Arab former residents of the West Bank?
´The recognition that comes with statehood was very valuable to the Jewish people, That is clear. Denying their earlier acceptance of a two state solution, which the Arab League refused to accept, does make their refusal now to accept Palestinian official observership at the UN difficult to swallow.
And if we admit personal feelings in the matter I would gladly give the Israelis 10 times the territory in compensation for their contribution to the world. But I do have difficulties watching white phosphorous rain on Gaza.
Fortunately, we don’t get to see the aftermath,
Just as we don’t get to see that of drone strikes.
I wish we could send some who feel that drones are motivated there to see—-but that is a tangent.
Lastly, Sunni and Shia compete for dominance. Since shortly after Mhhmd’s death. We see it today expressed in the ambitions of Iran and SA. Iran and an atom bomb would not bother me at all.
Much less than in the hands of the American President.
Some women here know too much. CIA analyst backgrounds?
Yes, Persians are proúd. I meet it often in the educated Persians (and all are educated) here in Sweden.
And perhaps they have more reason than the USA and the Saudis to be proud, if you regard their ancient history, and the ability of those I encounter.
.
The girls in Teheran are wearing today skin-tight tights and short short skirts just covering the necessary. Wonder how that grabs the religious police.
There is plenty of room in the so-called West Bank for all of the Palestinians to live and thrive. The West Bank was part of Jordan. Give back about half of this land to Jordan and let them absorb these arabs who used to live under the Jordanian yoke. In Gaza the border with Egypt needs to be taken over by Israel and the tunnels flooded. Then create a mile wide strip and turn it over to the UN to police and keep out the missles which Egypts allows through now. Let the Gazans be Palestinians or arabs or whatever they want to call themselves but deny them missles. The arabs who call themselves (in recent years) Palestinians do not need their own state. The thing they seem to prefer is a state of war. When I was in Israel and Egypt in 1980 I met many arabs in the Sinai, in Gaza and in East Jerusalem and in the West Bank. I never met one who referred to himself as a Palestinian. In Gaza, some claimed to be Egyptian. In the West Bank, most claimed to be Jordanian. A Three State solution is in order. Jordan takes back half of the West Bank. Gazans have a state. Israel is a state. That is three. Easy solution.
But the next thing that is imperative is to make war on Iran before they get their atomic bomb. Like tomorrow.
BarkinDog —> “But the next thing that is imperative is to make war on Iran before they get their atomic bomb. Like tomorrow.”
Your initial paragraph was tendentious, transparent, contemptuous, condescending, etc., but had a degree of potential sanity. But you reveal yourself in the second.
Check off that box.
No surprise here, the U.S. is guilty of far worse! Oneday, the U.S. will betray Israel out and out! A country of vast hypocrisies, lies and crimes against humanity. It likes to point fingers at others but in reality it is the Great Satan!
I know this from personal experience: A case that clearly high-lights the kind of degenerate whores that make up the government…not all, but a great majority.
I see that a famous Circuit Court official, was eventually demoted for having the audacity to throw the light on the insurmountable corruption that has invaded the Judicial institution.
Look, if a country’s judicial officials have no respect for their very Precedents, their Decisions, their Statues…how can it’s president be morally affirmative and strong? Hence the schizophrenic action of the current leader in relation to Israel.
The entire country is a mess: The masses ought to be leaving in droves anyhow…CIA officials are already leaving…(The Great-litlle secret)! if you believe in the Bible, you know that israel will be victorious in the end. The question is, is “he” the anti-christ or False Prophet?
Think about that one good, before you answer!
Who turned off the kook filter?
Mike Spindell 1, December 5, 2012 at 11:14 am
Now to the issue at hand. Netanyahu is quite frankly a belligerent idiot who is the puppet for the extreme religious right wing in Israel and due to that is a danger to the existence of the country he leads. I write this as a life-long supporter of Israel’s right to exist …
========================================
The recent UN vote for Palestine is the writing on the wall.
The U.S. lets itself be led around by the nose by neoCons here and in Israel.
The overwhelming rejection of the U.S. / Israeli protest against Palestine, shows the world has lost respect.
Fanaticism in the military which is our diplomacy corps now, is at a point of madness says one cadet who quit West Point:
(AP, FayObserver). The bully religion is boiling over.
Why were the Jews expelled or disdained and forbidden to buy lands or other things all around the world?
Does the fault lie in the world or perhaps the Jews are responsible for this?
OS,
You wanna bet we’re not somehow providing the cigars….. And open torches too…..
The anti-American, anti-Israel, anti-Jew Leftists are at it again, as usual. Leftists are slimey, Islamo-pandering, terrorist-loving subcretins that have no intelligence, no talent, no ability to produce anything of value, and are simply spongers on the real producers and the people that really achieve things in life. To the vile, disgusting Leftists, they think that loife is a zero-sum game and that they can only “win” by taking from the successful.
That is why the Leftists love the idea of a Palestinian state so much. They want a great nation like Israel that really produces things, creates things, and advances civilization to give up its security to a bunch of Islamic terrorists who only know how to hate, to kill, and to destroy.
If the Leftists want to see a Palestinian state so much, let them establish it in France, and make Paris the new capital of Palestine. Let’s see how the French really love the Muslim mayhem, madness, and murders. Of course, they will cry out: “Not in My Backyard” (“NIMBY”). But Leftists have always been NIMBIES. Vile, disgusting, ultracretinesque, Islamo-pandering NIMBIES.
Ralphie (Not From New Orleans) Adamo,
If you’re so gung ho on fighting for Israel’s expansionist neocons, why don’t you get off your ass, get on over there and volunteer for the IDF? I’m sure they’ll appreciate the help and, hey, you’d get to kill some brown skinned people who don’t worship the same invisible sky daddy you do.
It’s a win-win-win.
You get to do two things you apparently like – killing brown people and heathens – and we’d have you out of the American gene pool.
BTW, Ralphie, it’s a question all of us are asking . . . doesn’t it take a lot of energy to be as full of hate as you are or does it just come naturally?
Did I mention Jesus was a leftist?
Taj,
I’ll give you the short answer to your why. Having created the Torah, the Jews first had it ripped off by the Christians. That the Jews didn’t accept the new Gospels and Paul as a prophet was a perceived as an affront to Christians because how can you have a new testament, when the authors of the “old” one felt it was still in effect.
Then Islam came along and was affronted that their “new” revelation, which copied both Judaism and Christianity, didn’t find those groups accepting of their new faith, so they decided to spread it with the sword. They couldn’t conquer Christianity though they made inroads in Europe. Jews being far fewer than Christians were an easy target.
One of the necessity’s of ALL religious fanatics is a scapegoat. Also the improbable continuous survival of the Jews is discouraging to those who would usurp Jewish traditions in the service of their newer conceptions of God. Or do you think that the Mosque on Temple Mount was really put there because that’s where Mohammed ascended to heaven? Hardly, it was done as religious metaphor.
Ralph,
With friends like you, Israel doen’t need enemies.
Gene,
You are right about JC. He was the original liberal.
Ralph,
Ah, the civility of a true believer.
Mike, Jews have been thrown out from all over long before Christianity and Islam came into existence. Let’s not blame these 2 religions for the actions of the Jews that have been occurring long before that.
Hence, my original question stil stands. And one more thing, why are Jews not liked all around even today? What is in their traits that make them like this? I know they are very good at being victims which has helped them succeed in their lives.
Mike,
Methinks it was a set-up.
Teji,
Why don’t you elucidate on why you believe Jews are unliked since I already answered your question? What traits exactly are you talking about?
Mike, first I want to thank you for addressing me with my proper name.:-) Secondly, I challenged your justifications because they are historically and factually incorrect. That is the reason I asked you again the same question or to anyone else who is honest enough to respond. I do not know the answer.
If this post is correct that really takes the cake! The US suffers for supporting Israel through thick and thin and now we get bashed for allegedly starting protests against the very man we have been supporting. Like I always say the US cannot win in the Middle East.
Teji, I am honest enough to respond. So listen up.
Your question to my Landsman Mike Spindell is interesting to me. The reason it is interesting is that I worked for a long time with doctors from the Public Health Service (a branch of the American Military) in the field of domestic violence. Every now and then we would get someone asking the question, “If your statistics are true, then men have been beating their wives for a long time and the police have allowed this to continue. What I want to know is what all these women are doing to provoke such constant violence? Can’t you provide some education for these women to stop the behaviors that are causing the trouble?”
Look at your question: Jews have been thrown out from all over long before Christianity and Islam came into existence. Let’s not blame these 2 religions for the actions of the Jews that have been occurring long before that.
So it says, point blank and without explanation: DO NOT BLAME two groups of people for mistreating Jews when plenty of others mistreated Jews. Blame the Jews for all the mistreatment because it is obviously “the actions of the Jews” that brought about the mistreatment.
So in its purest and simplest form, you ask what the victims have done to deserve the abuse, which you justify because you have assumed the innocence of those dishing it out.
If ANYBODY would like to answer your question about what ANY victims have done to justify the actions of their abusers, I sure hope it isn’t a Jew who does so.
A few months ago I was in a courthouse, in the room where litigants go to get little 15-minute decisions from a sitting judge on small matters having to do with temporary date-changes and apparently temporary restraining orders. A young Hispanic woman was there asking for a restraining order against a man she says shoved her and choked her. The Clerk looked at the woman’s papers, which were not written very well, and suddenly demanded, “I don’t see very much of an explanation here about why he shoved you and choked you.” The young woman was confused and said: “Um…” Then the clerk said to her, in a very intimidating tone: “Why did he do it? A person doesn’t just suddenly choke you and shove you. What happened?” The young woman was unable to provide an answer. The Clerk would not take her petition into the room for the judge to look at. I then wrote to the Chief Judge a few days later, explaining the problem and asking him to retrain the clerks. He wrote back (he and I had been presenters at the same domestic violence workshop years ago in Ocean City) saying that the young woman had been sent to the wrong room, and in the DV (Domestic Violence) room the clerks were properly trained.
Do you see the problem? The clerk asked the woman filing for the protective order to explain the behavior of the abuser, so the whole process stopped. I wonder if that guy came back to that young woman’s house the next day and did more violence? Certainly that’s a possibility.
I ask again, in case you have the honesty to answer: Do you see the problem?
I was a British citizen who worked in the American Embassy in Tehran in 1979 when the terrorists took it over and put us in prisons. No one spoke up for us, not even Jimmy Carter, because the Iranians claimed the terrorists were “students”. I moved to Ramala in Israel. The terrorists in Gaza have been shooting missles at me but no one speaks up for me because the terrorists claim that they are Hamas not the agents of Iran. Now in July 2013 the terrorists have dropped an atomic bomb on my town and no one has spoken up for me because the Iranian terrorists are “unknown”. When they drop one on the former site of the twin towers there will not be anyone left to speak up for you New Yorkers. I am sending this back to you from the future because now I am dead and have the ability to do so. An Iranian student helped me with the time machine. You should have listened to the guys on Saturday Night Live back in 1979: [music] Bomb, bomb, bomb, ….bomb, bomb, Iran Oh, bomb iraaaan, I’ll take my staaandd, rocking and rollin, rockin and a reeling bomb Iraaan!
I will put it to you in country bumpkin talk. Y’all dont know nuttin bout birthin babies or the terrorists in Iran.
Frankly I get pissed with people who don”t know what they are talking about, but I will either ignore them or address them courteously.
Tejii
You haven’t provide an example of peoples who have persecutéd the jews prior to Christians an Muslims. Let us consider the Babylonians. It was a routine conquest, take the leadering class to Babylon–where they kept their own practices and developed one version of the Talmud. Hardly persecuted. The next conquerors had the same motive, ie no persecution, just invade and tax. So where’s the pre-BCE persecution?
———————————–
Jews want to be by themselves. They enjoy each others company, just like fundamentalist Christians, Mormon, Shiites, Persians, Sunnis, etc etc.
And they despise each other (presuming), ie the Hassids against the Reforms, the Orthodox against the whatever…….!
So if one will talk to me in the old town, but won’t shake hands then I should hate him? On the otherhand the jewish shopkeeper selling cigarettes and souveniirs on the same street, who tries to shortchange me when I pay with a hundred dollar bill, he gets me mad. Now goy workers in the entrance to the amusement park cashier will try to do you in for small change. Any difference.
Just a little anecdotal stuff to wonder if there are any reasonalbly drawn conclulsions there.
Will take up the Iran hysteria another time. If their are any terrorists there then they hardly exceed the numbers ór deadlinest of ours.
Thanks Dredd. A balanced counterviewpoint is always welcome.
Let me hasten to add,, that jews enjoy the company of non-jews. No need for exemplifying that.
But there is a problem which exists. And it exists for the han chinese,, the muslims, etc. The counterpart does not understand your history and culture. He does not know that the left hand is used for bodily hygiene and is not used in contact with others. He does not know that the chinese is willing to work 24/7, as the jew will also, to support his family and thrive.
In the case of the chinese they don’t even speak the same language. And sichiuaniese are not the same as Shanghainese, culturewise and morés.
.
So here with a cultural history of over 4,000 years accdg to Mike, then the contact area is quite limited. You can discuss classical music, but hardly the development of Klezmer music in the Stetl.
And since the jew you are talking with is anywhare in the range from Hassid untraconservative to atheist, then assumptions are impossible.
Only courtesy can be assumed. Not bad for a start.
This is my view. So what more can the jews here tell us?
Idealist, as far as “what more can the Jews here tell us,” if you mean “about the relationships among Jews and non-Jews,” I think that’s for another thread, and I probably wouldn’t comment there anyway. But this question of the relationship between Jews and non-Jews came up here in the context of Jews explaining to a non-Jewish poster why Jews were so often “unliked.” That’s a far better question for a non-Jew to make up answers to.
I dont know what the “Jews here” can tell us but I can tell you that “tent head” notions have been around for a long time and guys like Teji talk about Jews like Southern Rednecks talk about black people. Hitlerian theories on the history of mankind and Jews are welcome on any blog. Keep talking Teji. I know where you are coming from but we need to hear more. I think we heard much of it at the Nuremberg rallies in 1936. Perhaps your life story will help us along. Mein Kamp by Teji.
Yeah, I was deferring to you jews
But agreed instantly, as I was in the same situation wondering about why someone had something against me and not really able to answer the question. Sure, the answer MUST be answered by the one who owns the anger, not the victim. It is again the question of asking the victim, why were your raped, attacked, etc. Silly. Ask the hater instead.
Thanks.
I was just feeling a bit presumptious. and asked for help. So I’ll ask Teji instead. Teji?????? Tell us why, please`?
Tej,
What about the native Americans here in the USA, the Mayans in Mexico…..the Roma’s in Europe….. Why be exclusive in your narration of Jews…… When a mind set is made…. Sometimes, no one can do anything different….
Tej,
FYI…. If you don’t like Jews…. Then by all means never, ever go to the doctor….. I’ll bet over 85 percent of medical technology is based on something a Jew did…. Take for instance penicillin….. Yeah…. Gets rid of the clap….. Try some…
Would it be unlawful (a fantasy) to form groups composed of mixed ethnic minorities to go around to hand out on the street information pamphlets regarding racism and bigottry?
Each group could contain what was available for the day, each wearing vests clearly identifying their ethnic group: I am a….mexican, jew, asian, etc.
If need be and lawful they would bear appropriate weapons with written notice on that too.
Would this persuaded folks to better ways of thinking?
It might start a useful discussion in the media and other places.
Teji Malik,
First of all let me apologize for getting your name wrong the first time, my short term memory at times plays tricks with me and no slight was intended. Secondly,
your question was based on an assumption which could be paraphrased as: “What is wrong with the Jews that makes people want to hurt them?” As Malisha and ID707 pointed out this is a loaded question that in effect implies the victim is more guilty than those who attack them.
“I challenged your justifications because they are historically and factually incorrect.”
You asked me a question and I answered you with factual and correct information, with a modicum of detail, primarily because the historical record is so obvious and complete. To say I’m wrong gives you the onus of providing data that proves me wrong, if indeed you are interested in debating the question. The pre-Christian, pre-Islam contentions in your response were ably answered by ID707. Israel was attacked by outside powers expanding their empires, particularly the Egyptians, Persians, Hellenists and the Romans. This was a matter of territory and not one of specificity towards the Jewish people per se. There was some bad feeling towards Jews among the Romans because of all their conquered territories the Israelites were the least grateful and most contentious towards “Pax Romana”. However, like the killing gangsters “it was nothing personal”.
I know nothing of you and your background so I hesitate to accuse you of any
pre-judgments other than those connoted by your words. I understand that there is also a difference between being anti-Israeli and anti-Jewish. I’ve been hesitant in the various discussions on Israel that have occurred on this blog through the years to label those who oppose Israel’s existence as being anti-Jewish, because of this distinction. However, in the general tone of your questions it seems that you might harbor both sentiments. Let me give you an example:
“And one more thing, why are Jews not liked all around even today? What is in their traits that make them like this? I know they are very good at being victims which has helped them succeed in their lives.”
As to why Jews are “not liked all around” today I think that is a broadly false generalization. Jews are accepted in many country’s around the world, without prejudice, however, there are admittedly some people within most countries who don’t like Jews. Then again there are elements in most countries that don’t like People of Color and or religious difference. Indeed in the USA there are people who despise those of Islamic faith. I would call such people bigots, but perhaps you would ask what the “traits” of those with Islamic faith are that causes people to despise them.
Your use of the word “trait” is also interesting. Trait is primarily a biologic term referring to the characteristics of genetic structure. Your use in this context implies a racial aspect. Genetically the evidence is that almost all Jews, from anywhere in the world (other than Ethiopia) are most closely genetically related to Middle Eastern peoples (Arabs, Iranians, etc.) in origin. This would mean that the eugenicists term “Semitic” would fit. However, those eugenicists used “Semitic” as a slur for people inferior to Northern European Whites, so I reject it as descriptive. Nonetheless, genetic studies show the affinity of Arabs and Jews which would assume similar traits. That being the case if you were really searching for answers might’t you have asked: What is in Mid-Eastern traits that makes those with them not liked around the World? For my part I would reject such a formulation as being over generalized and bordering on bigotry.
Your last sentence is an interesting one: ”
“I know they are very good at being victims which has helped them succeed in their lives.”
Do you really believe that Jewish “success” is because we play being victims well? Hardly so. History shows that it was the ancient Israeli’s that were considered Rome’s fiercest opponents and the hardest province to pacify.
The Israeli state militarily has resisted successfully the massed attacks of its surrounding neighbors, on many occasions. This is despite the fact that at least in 1948, 1954 and 1967 the United States had embargoed arms to Israel,
so the explanation that it was done because of U.S. assistance is specious and factually incorrect. There are documented instances also throughout the last two thousand years of history of Jews fighting back with some success against great odds. See the “Warsaw Ghetto” for instance.
It is clearly not “playing victim” that has allowed Jews to persist through the ages. The greatest reason for Jewish success comes not from some specious genetic traits, it comes from education. In the Jewish religion, unlike others, one cannot fully partake in it as an adult without being literate. One need to master Hebrew to be confirmed as an adult at age 13. This feature of Judaism has been the root for Jewish “success”. Throughout the last two thousand years most peoples in the world were not literate. This gave Jews an edge and made them valuable to the ruling classes of many societies. It also unfortunately in many instances cause Jews to be hated. So while it kept our tribe going through the ages, it had its less fortunate aspects.
Now you will notice that I have answered your questions in a respectful manner. You have not done me the courtesy of answering any of my questions about what is behind your comments and I would request that you do so. I would hate to characterize your comments as being bigoted, because reasonable people at all times may disagree on core issues without resorting to casting aspersions, so I would appreciate your kind attention in providing complete answers.
.
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Look up shtetl in Wikipedia. Look up Josephus and the history of the jewish-roman wars by him. Get some facts. They are so available.
It is simply astonishing how stupid, moronic, and subcretinesque the Islamo-pandering leftists are on this mesage board. But that isn’t suirprising, since the host of this board is as well.
I note that Turley, the pseudo-legal-scholar does not dare to tackle the recent Islamo-pandering decision of the US Army Court of Criminal Appeals to force Judge Gross off the case against the Muslim Murderer Major Nadal M. Hasan, who was PROMOTED and PROTECTED by the Army so that he could murder and maim US soldiers with absolute ease.
(There are already multi-millions civil suits against the U.S. Army for its traitorous conduct and for its “failure” to act on their knowledge that Hasan was an Islamo-Nazi working with his fellor terrorists to commit terrorist acts against Americans–and Turley won’t talk about those either.)
Thanks to infiltration of Islam-pandering leftists into the highest levels of government, the Appeals Court forced Judge Gross off the case for ordering Hasan to shave his beard. (Hasan argued that shaving his newly acquired beard was against the “principles” of his “religious” cult). The Appeals Court relied on a legal pretext thinner than a piece of paper crushed by a steam roller to remove Judge Gross.
http://www.stripes.com/polopoly_fs/1.193587!/menu/standard/file/hasan.pdf
At any rate, I’m sure all of you Islam-pandering leftists will take delight in the news that one of your own, Hasan, is getting such wonderful legal protection from the US Government, whose powers you want to see even further expanded. Enjoy.
If you had only written “Islamo-pandering” a little more, I think you would’ve convinced me.
The settlements are nothing more than a thinly veiled effort to make a two-state solution impossible.
Waldo: facts, the truth, nor logic nor reason will convince any Islam-pandering leftists about anything. You did read the part about them wherein I aptly described them as being stupid, submoronic, cretinesque?
The answer to your questions (relative to Jewish people) can be found in the Holy Bible, both Old and New Testament.
Dear Mr. Teji Malik:
You have asked the question on 1, December 5, 2012 at 8:53 pm
Why were the Jews expelled or disdained and forbidden to buy lands or other things all around the world?
Does the fault lie in the world or perhaps the Jews are responsible for this?
I do not claim to be a Bible scholar dear Mr. Malik, but perhaps you are asking a valid question. I (as you may know, am a Black woman from Barbados, but living here for the past 37 years).
I do not want to be simplistic and say that the world is jealous of Jewish people: And although there is some truth here, it is not 100% correct.
Our answer Mr. Malik is looking right at you; perhaps you are Islamic or Hindu? Or, someone who never picked up a Christian Bible???
Jeremiah 24:7 NIV
New International Version
I will give them a heart to know me, that I am the LORD. They will be my people, and I will be their God, for they will return to me with all their heart.
Ezekiel 39: 28
New International Version
Then they will know that I am the LORD their God, for though I sent them into exile among the nations, I will gather them to their own land, not leaving any behind.
Leviticus 26: 27-33
27 ‘And after all this, if you do not obey Me, but walk contrary to Me,
28 then I also will walk contrary to you in fury;
and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins.
29 You shall eat the flesh of your sons, and you shall eat the flesh of your daughters.
30 I will destroy your high places, cut down your incense altars, and cast your carcasses on the lifeless forms of your idols;
and My soul shall abhor you.
31 I will lay your cities waste and bring your sanctuaries to desolation, and I will not smell the fragrance of your sweet aromas.
32 I will bring the land to desolation, and your enemies who dwell in it shall be astonished at it.
33 I will scatter you among the nations and draw out a sword after you;
your land shall be desolate and your cities waste.
I shall end here dear Mr. Malik by referring you to Ezekiel 16 (read this entire chapter) but do not be fooled, there are many, many, many verses and books referring to the Jewish people and their special relationship with God. Know this, that because Christ came and died, all of us…ALL OF US HAVE ACCESS TO THE LORD, TO JESUS, AND TO EVERLASTING LIFE!
You will discover that the Jewish people have not always relied on God, and he is a jealous God. Please read and discover, then you will know the answer to your many questions referencing Jews.
Our God’s earthly son was a Jew, and we all worship him.
http://www.redressonline.com/2012/11/israels-sewage-war/
Illegal settlements dumping sewage on Palestinian farm lands polluting the water.
excerpt:
This first video below, shot by a special correspondent, shows raw sewage flowing from the illegal Jewish colony of Beitar Illit on to the farmlands of the besieged Palestinian village of Wadi Fuqeen.
There are additional videos
That thug behavior should be prosecuted to the max! Thanks for the video; I had not seen this. I’m sending a message to the Embassy about it (not that they listen but I’m used to that).