There’s crazy and then there is Karzai crazy. Afghan President Hamid Karzai spoke this weekend and accused the United States of colluding with . . . the Taliban. It was an odd accusation from a man who said that he wished that he had joined the Taliban against the United States as American soldiers were dying in the field and the American people were pouring billions into this corrupt family and country. Notably, however, Karzai does put the lie to the Administration’s heralding how the President is trying to pull out troops from Afghanistan when reports indicated that the Administration has been trying to get Karzai to let more troops stay in the country.
Karzai insists that the U.S. wants more attacks to occur to justify keeping troops in the country — a reflection of the private pressure from the Administration to keep troops in the country. Karzai announced “Those bombs that went off in Kabul and Khost were not a show of force to America. They were in service of America. It was in the service of the 2014 slogan to warn us if they (Americans) are not here then Taliban will come . . . In fact those bombs, set off yesterday in the name of the Taliban, were in the service of Americans to keep foreigners longer in Afghanistan.”
Of course, we will continue to pour money into the country and the Karzai family coffers. Despite the overwhelming unpopularity of our presence, no one wants to leave the appearance of a failure in our war in the country.
Yes, it is absurd to think of the U.S. collaborating with the Taliban for attacks. In the last day, two more Americans were killed by an insider attack. However, there remains a disconnect between the President heralding his determination to pull out troops (which should have occurred at the beginning of his term) and the reports of our being forced to leave the country.
For his part, Defense Secretary Hagel went out of his way to praise Karzai and simply noted his claim “wouldn’t make a lot of sense.” In other words, sure he is crazy but he is U.S. approved crazy.
Of course, it is certifiably crazy to see any discernible plan in Afghanistan. Karzai makes the joker look remarkably sane:
Source: CNN
One has to be crazy to think that the recent wars, or even those less recent for that matter, are about anything other than resource control:
(Myth Addiction, quoting 1944 book).
No Win War???
The New American for November 9, 2009, has an interesting article on General Barry McCaffrey’s statement that the US “faces 10 more years of war in Afghanistan” and that the US should “focus upon a long and expensive nation-building process for Afghanistan’s tribal culture.” There seems to be a mindset in the establishment for the US to maintain a long term presence in the MidEast.
For a long time, the US has operated in the region through hidden agendas. In his book, The New World Order, Mr. Pat Robertson, states that George Bush 1 suggested that the fate of Kuwait was not the main issue, “launching the New World Order was the main thing.” Mr. Robertson further writes, “By words and by silence, the United States flashed Saddam Hussein a green light” … to move into Kuwait and suggests this was used as a pretext for the 1st Gulf War…the implication is that Saddam was entraped with Green Light Diplomacy but there was a much larger agenda(hidden) for moving against Hussein………..
For the situation in Afghanistan and Pakistan, the evidence suggests that the US and its allies are not doing all that can be done to win this war and there is some agenda for prolonging this conflict.
The Advocate quotes Hillary Clinton(Dec. 7, 2009, p. 5A), stating it is “hard to believe” that no one in Islamabad knows where the al-Qaida leaders are hiding and couldn’t get them “if they really wanted to.”
In the aftermath of 9.11, the bombing of the wrong escape route out of Afghanistan into Pakistan and the nighttime airlift by the US of the Taliban and Al Qaeda operatives that were allowed to escape(The New Yorker, Jan 28, 2002, p. 36); Gary Berntsen, the head of the CIAs team at Tora Bora said they tracked bin Laden and (he) “…could have been caught.”(Newsweek, Aug 15, 2005, p. 5); There is evidence that the Pakistani ISI is funding the Taliban and knows where they live but dont arrest them.(Time, Nov. 29, 2004, p. 44)
There is a strategy by the Pakistani government “…which pays tribes and insurgent networks to attack each other with a goal of preventing any one group from getting too strong”.(US News, Oct 13/Oct 20, 2008, p. 24)(a strategy used by the Brits) Pakistani Ambassador, Haqqani presents evidence in his book that the Pakistani military and ISI make “…the pretense of arresting militants in order to get funds from Washinton. But it never shut down the networks.”(Newsweek, May 11/May 18, 2009, p. 29)
The CIA never takes a junior partner role with any of these groups and we have to assume wants this to continue. The New York Times(Oct. 27, 2009) reports that Karzai’s brother is on the CIAs payroll and is a suspected player in the opium trade which finances the Taliban.
All of this only contributes to a more chaotic situation which feeds a hidden agenda for a “no win war” and prolonged conflict at the expense of American boys and girls lives!!
woody voinche
Me thinks Karzai has been over-indulging in his country’s main cash crop.
Drone Strike?
It was Eisenhower that warned of the dangers of an overpowering military industrial complex…?
Pull out all troops today! We wasted (yes WASTED) people and money in this botched attempt to turn Afghanistan into Colorado. Get out today, take all our stuff and let them fight it out amongst themselves.
US FUNDS THE TALIBAN????
One of the most important issues today is the war in Afghanistan-Pakistan and the fact that US
Military Aid to Pakistan is being used to fund the Pakistani ISI which is in turn funding Taliban
and Al Quada fighters. While this has been reported sporadically in the media for whatever
reason political pundits on the left and right have effectively ignored this issue.
Joe Klein in an article for Time, August 9, 2010, p. 19, has written an article that every American
citizen should go to their library and read, he writes,
“The commanders are unanimous in their belief that the ISI is running the show….And so,
despite professions of alliance with the US by Pakistan’s then dictator Pervez Musharraf, a
decision was made to keep the Taliban alive. A spigot of untargeted military aid from the George
W. Bush Administration helped fund the effort. A commander of the vicious Haqqani Taliban
network tells Waldman that their funding comes from ‘the Americans–from them to the
Pakistani military, and then to us.’ Waldman reports that the commander receives from the
Pakistanis ‘a reward for killing foreign soldiers, usually $4000 to $5000 for each soldier killed’”.
American tax dollars if not directly, then indirectly are being used to fund the Taliban and put
a bounty on American boys and girls head… Makes one wonder why the establishment right
or left is not reporting on this? If the right is covering for
the mistakes of the Bush administration…why is the establishment left not reporting on this???
…this is the most important issue of the day…we will never win a war where if not directly then
indirectly the US is funding the opposition!!!!
woody voinche
woody voinche 1, March 11, 2013 at 11:08 am
It was Eisenhower that warned of the dangers of an overpowering military industrial complex…?
=================================
He was one of them.
The “Father of the Constitution” who wrote the Bill of Rights, was a bit more instructive:
(Toxins of Power, quoting James Madison).
The published reason for the Afghanistan debacle was to go after al-Qaeda, however, one of our military commanders says that Oil-Qaeda is a much greater danger:
(Oil-Qaeda: The Indictment – 2).
You know… Even the craziest person out there is right some of the time….. He may have a point…. After reading Bushs book….. He might just be right…
Dredd, very good link. And today we have the war on terror, the war on drugs, the war on poverty, the war on women.
Can we just cut the crap and let people alone?
Before we call this man, Mr. Karzai ‘crazy,’ let’s first examine the true reason we are in Afghan, allowing our family members and friends to die:
U.S., Afghan Study Finds Mineral Deposits Worth $3 trillion:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-01-29/u-s-afghan-study-finds-mineral-deposits-worth-3-trillion.html
If we are in Afghan for the $$$$, then is it hard to believe that our US government is leaving this region anytime soon? Why wouldn’t they have ongoing discussion/negotiation with the Taliban (just google taliban and us negotiations)? Why wouldn’t the US and the Taliban be ‘working together’ so that the American public can continue to think that we need to keep our troops in Afghan to stop the ‘fighting’ and not to get the mineral deposits?
Seems like Mr. Karzai isn’t that ‘crazy’ after all…….
agree with Dredd: “One has to be crazy to think that the recent wars, or even those less recent for that matter, are about anything other than resource control”
as soon as you let go of the fairytale that these wars are fought to protect “american freedoms” from “jealous muslims”, it makes perfect sense that those with the most to gain (military industrial complex) would do anything to continue the status quo, at least until the resources are stolen.
http://whowhatwhy.com/2012/09/10/the-real-reason-for-the-afghan-war/
Nice posts Woody, & Dredd too, but could you define ISI? Seems to be Pakistan’s answer to Israel’s Mossad but I’d rather not guess.
What Afganastan is costing the U.S. we could buy the mineral deposits. It’s time to leave and let them have at it.
Karzai is loyal to whomever is currently bribing him at the time.
But Bruce, buying things means giving other money=power away.
now the super rich are making money=power off the war, and when the time comes they’ll make power=money off the resources.
The United States has been sending PALLETS of cash into certain countries. Not bags, pallets. Shrink wrapped. No accountability.
Thanks TravelinL…Dredd and RWL have very interesting posts…i just do not believe that the CIA and Military Intel are not in constant contact with the leadership of Pakistani military and the ISI and do not have some measure of control over these agencies…with the $Billions
and superior technology being sent there…the US has a history of controlling events there…starting with Operation Ajax and the downfall of Mossade and the installation of the Shaw…the CIA never takes a junior partner role with any of these groups…
Operation
… http://articles.latimes.com/2009/nov/15/world/fg-cia-pakistan15 …
Prof.,
The Joker clip was perfect but it didn’t have the line leading to that speech. “Do I really look like a guy with a plan? You know what I am? I’m a dog chasing cars. I wouldn’t know what to do with one if I caught it! You know, I just… *do* things.” Karzai has never struck me as a guy with a plan. Or to paraphrase the late Warren Zevon, “Accidentally Like A Dictator”.
The Pakistani government looks forward to the 2014 withdrawl of US forces in neighboring Afghanistan as a time a whole lot of Taliban will depart Pakistan and return home, takiing their C4 with them.
Finbarr New,
Great Observation (your money=power analysis)!
Karzai is not stupid. He saw a weak new cabinet member and disgraced him on his home field. There is a reason to his “madness.” I think it was a possible very good strategic move. We may see more of this now.
Karzai is a greedy crook, nothing more, nothing less. This kind of nonsense is just additional evidence that we should be out of there now. Not to mention the two latest servicemen who were killed in eastern Afghanistan.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/03/11/us-soldiers-afghan-forces-insider-attack/1977927/
Excerpt:
Expect more tantrums, Dobbins says.
“These outbursts will probably become somewhat more frequent,” Dobbins says. “They’re more likely to continue because of the converging transitions.”
They also work — to a degree, according to Dobbins. They often occur after Karzai has raised concerns to U.S. officials in private but feels they aren’t adequately addressed. The outbursts can focus attention on an issue — night raids, for instance, that are resented by many Afghans. Karzai also appears to his domestic audience as a champion of Afghan sovereignty.
The downside is that pushing too hard and causing a more rapid U.S. withdrawal could force ill-trained Afghan security forces to contend with an insurgency they can’t handle.
Seth Jones, another RAND analyst who has advised U.S. special operators in Afghanistan, says Karzai’s bouts of pique may also stem from concerns that U.S. diplomats may be seeking to negotiate separately with the Taliban. In 2010, Karzai said he might join the Taliban because he bristled at pressure to reform his government.
“There appears to be a growing angst within the presidential palace that Afghanistan is vulnerable to foreign governments and groups, such as the Taliban, U.S., and Pakistan,” Jones said in an email. “President Karzai will periodically lash out at these groups and occasionally lump them together – such as condemning both Pakistan and the Taliban together. Now he has lumped the Taliban and U.S. together.”
Hagel, for his part, said he was once a politician and understands the pressure that Karzai is under.
travelinglimey SAID:
1, March 11, 2013 at 12:40 pm
Nice posts Woody, & Dredd too, but could you define ISI? Seems to be Pakistan’s answer to Israel’s Mossad but I’d rather not guess.
The difference is U.S. is a partner with Mossad – often a junior partner to Mossad – but U.S. is senior partner to ISI.
BTW – Congratulations. So far none of the NPRers here have accused you of being a Holocaust-denying anti-semite.
Travelling Limey.
ISI = Interservice Intelligence Agency.
Conflating the statement “is in service of” with “colluding” doesn’t work unless the point is propaganda. ‘In service of’, ‘Serves to’, ‘Serves the interest of’, ‘Serves the aim of’, is all of one cloth. To say that the attacks of 9-11 served to advance, or worked in service of, the Bush administration’s desire to invade Iraq, is not to say that the Bush administration colluded with the Saudis/al-Qaida to attack America.
The words and their use are pretty settled to meaning and in that light are not false. There are two diplomatic tracks, at least, in play what is being fed to the American public by the Administration and what the Administration is saying to Karzai. Karzai is talking to the Administration about policies and desires that are not in line with what the Administration is talking about to the citizenry. We really have no idea what is going on regarding political factions and their supporters/funding sources in Pakistan and except for political rhetoric, what the American citizenry wants is not a driver (and hasn’t been for over a decade).
Back in the Vietnam era we were told that thousands of Americans were dying to prevent “the domino effect”. Robert McNamara and some weenie President named Johnboy explained further that if we let the Communists take over Vietnam that they then would take over Burma, Thailand, Malaysia and other countries. At the time I said: Could we give them Japan?”
I went to church one day with a girlfriend and ti was a catolic church. This Priest was up there with an Arch Bishop and they were saying or singing this:
“I play dominos, you play dominos, I can beat you at dominos.”
Then it dawned on me. The catolic countries, including England if you include the church of England as sort of catolic, had gone around and taken over all of these colonies. It was a game of dominios between the catolics and the communists. Now both the catolics and the communists are waning and yet the United States is still trying to play the Pope’s domino game and we cant even sing it right. Now, when you go to church try and hear if they sing anything about Stan countries and if you are in Saint Louis skip by the stuff about Stan the Man.
It is always all about the catolics isn’t it BarkinDog. Here we are at war in some Stan place and you are railing about catolics and dominos. Keep your theories to yourself.
Darn, who yanked itchinBayDog’s collar?
I read with interest the article and the comments posted in regards to Pres. Karzai’s ‘madness’ and other reasons the US Government wants to remain in Afghanistan. I thought for those interested I’d chime in about some of it. Here is what I gleaned from sources on the ground there as well as lots of reading sources just during the past month (my main sources include Foreign Policy Brief, NYT, the Globe&Mail, the UK Guardian etc. as well as Afghan media sources like Ariana, Tolo and AOP and a few in Pakistan and India as well as the Afghan Analysis Network and human rights organizations): Karzai is ticked off about several issues right now. Firstly, he was promised that the US was going to transfer the notorious Bagram Prison to Afghan oversight with the exception of some very high value detainees. The ceremony of doing this was supposed to happen yesterday, Sunday and Karzai felt very humiliated when the hand-over was canceled last minute. The reason given by the USG and Military was that security wasn’t in place but the real reason is that the US feels peeved at earlier allegations by Karzai and others and still don’t feel he gave them enough assurances he wasn’t going to release most of the detainees. The other issue involves the fear that detainees will be tortured and could be held responsible for torture and abuse under International Law. This is unlikely to happen but with Pres. Obama a bit more willing to respect the ‘rules’ governing transfers (and knowing full well that the Afghan government and its Security Forces, esp. the National Directorate of Security/NDS have been involved in doing just that), there is actually some real push-back against handing over Afghan detainees. The UK is also still reviewing that same detention issue. The UK actually reversed the decision to do so only recently after reports were shared with them that detainees keep being abused and tortured).
Karzai is also really mad at reports out of Wardak Province, a particular nasty place of Taleban violence, that Special Operation Forces/SOF have looked the other way when the Afghan Special Operation Forces they trained have engaged in brutal murder and disappearance of ‘innocent’ civilians and just Saturday the brutal interrogation by the Afghan SOF of a young university student in Kandahar. Pres. Karzai has demanded for quite a while now that these forces also become part of the government’s oversight. The US is acting like it really doesn’t want that to happen, esp. if they are going to stay after 2014.
It almost amused me to hear Karzai object to harsh treatment and worse of detainees, considering that the man he favored and got approved in Parliament, Asadullah Khalid, is known as a brutal man himself and stands accused of torturing prisoners himself and ordering the bombing of a UN plane which was carrying five UN workers. (googling Asadullah Khalid’s name and adding torture should help you find out more). People who know Asadullah say he gets paid by the CIA. He replaced Karzai’s brother in Kandahar when he was killed. Asadullah was the victim of a suicide bomber at the end of last year and was seriously but not mortally wounded. He was ultimately transferred to a hospital in VA and his importance was revealed by visits to him from VIP’s like Pres. Obama, Pres. Karzai and Mr. Panetta, now replaced by Mr. Hagel.
The US really has interfered in attempts at negotiating with the Taleban and yes, they have sent mixed messages over the last years as to whether they find that an acceptable political solution or not. Pres. Karzai should be the one to do so and in my modest opinion is best situated to do so. His ongoing negotiations with the insurgent group is also partly why he is raising, at least publicly, issues as described above re: detention and abuse of civilians at the hands of US SOF
The last issue which hasn’t received attention in our media is that Pakistan has just finalized a deal with Iran to receive oil from the latter through a pipeline through Afghanistan. Don’t forget that Karzai was involved with Unocal before his appointment to the presidency. The USG is very upset about this deal as it had been pushing for a long time for Pakistan to get oil via the TAPI pipleline: Tajikistan-Afghanistan-Pakistan-India.
Karzai already has a PR problem in much of the country and some of what is going on shines an even worse light on him. Let’s also not forget that several officials of the Kabul Bank, under enormous pressure from the US and allies, were recently indicted on charges including corruption and Karzai wasn’t pleased with the pressure. Karzai is also working hard to put forward the next presidential candidate who of course will be somebody he can personally benefit from (as if he hasn’t already). It is in Karzai’s best interest to look as strong and independent as he can to help put forward a ‘friend’. Rumors have the following people interested: our dear friend Mr. Khalizad (former Ambassador the Iraq for the US as well as for Afghanistan; could be he was an evoy); Asadullah Khalid and the brother of famous leader and ‘lion’. Two others may enter the fray including the brother of the ‘lion’, Mr. Massood and female MP and acquaintance of mine, Ms. Fawzia Koofi.
Secretary of State, Mr. Hagel, is entirely justified in saying that things are ‘complicated’ there! He has his work cut out for him. While I know most of the people commenting here want the US out of Afghanistan, I want to share that our tax payer monies will continue to flow there from what I know.
To be clear, Elsie DL, I don’t think Karzai is either mad or stupid. I think, and your in depth post points to this, that he’s pulled in so many directions he often doesn’t know which way is up. He doesn’t have a plan because he can’t plan. He doesn’t have one because he wouldn’t love one that works. He doesn’t have a plan because his daily reality has always been a working example of Field Marshal Helmuth von Moltke sage wisdom when he said of military strategy, “No battle plan survives contact with the enemy.”
Hi Gene H.,
Okay, I admit you didn’t describe Pres. Karzai ‘mad’, but some of the comments To say that Pres. Karzai doesn’t have a plan except to survive the presidency is anyone’s guess. I most certainly can’t point to one book or article or speech which makes his intent clear. I believe that he plays the game as things around him evolve and that he is quite adept at it. There is no doubt in my mind that the US put him in the presidency as a maneuver to manipulate their involvement there. It is also clear that Pres. Karzai plays along with the US quite nicely but that he has his limits. His alliance with the now notorious His Asadullah Khalid, is but one example of this. As stated above some people very familiar with the NDS Director say that he is on the CIA’s payroll. There are just too many divisions running between various constituents and that is why Afghanistan never really had a strong central government, except for places like Kabul.
Karzais brother is on the payroll of the CIA and involved in the Opium trade…who do you think is in control???
… http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/28/world/asia/28intel.html?pagewanted=all …
Since it is Afghanistan, I would venture the KGB.
“After Karzai was installed into power, his actual authority outside the capital city of Kabul was said to be so limited that he was often derided as the “Mayor of Kabul”. The situation was particularly delicate since Karzai and his administration have not been equipped either financially or politically to influence reforms outside of the region around Kabul. Other areas, particularly the more remote ones, have historically been under the influence of various local leaders. Karzai has been, to varying degrees of success, attempting to negotiate and form amicable alliances with them for the benefit of Afghanistan as a whole, instead of aggressively fighting them and risking an uprising.” — Wikipedia
The United States military, on the other hand, insists on aggressively fighting — i.e., killing or incarcerating — the common citizenry and factional leaders whom President Karzai must accommodate in order to avoid an uprising by broadening his popular base of support beyond the outskirts of Kabul — where wealthy Afghans and foreigners reside. But if President Karzai ever achieved such a broad-based political accommodation throughout the country, then he wouldn’t need the American military to protect him from his countrymen whom the United States military has enraged with their nightly home invasions and robot drone assassinations.
As in Vietnam with our long parade of recalcitrant puppets:
The U.S. military government would like the Afghan government to stand up — but only so long as it continues to kneel. Old story. Can’t say that I blame Afghan president Hamid Karzai for resenting this schizophrenic situation — and saying so.
“Karzai insists that the U.S. wants … to justify keeping troops in the country — a reflection of the private pressure from the Administration …” — Jonathan Turley.
Judging from the public statements and well-publicized leaks coming from highly placed Pentagon spokespersons and their media sycophants, this would seem obvious to the casual observer. As for the particular instances of behind-the-back double-dealing that the dependent puppet may suspect its bad patron of perpetrating in its own (but not the puppet’s) interest:
Professor Turley apparently seems unable to grasp the fact that the illiterate, weak, impoverished people in countries like Vietnam and Afghanistan take the U.S. military and its Commander-in-Brief literally when they proclaim themselves “the most powerful military the world has ever seen.” Therefore, the little foreign people reason: if “the greatest military in the world” cannot defeat in short order a rag-tag assortment of barely armed peasants in black pajamas (or the Afghan equivalent) then only one thing can explain this: namely, that “the world’s greatest military” doesn’t actually want to defeat the “dead enders” (Rumsfeld) “in their last throes” (Cheney) and simply wishes to continue the “war” for as long as possible — by which we mean “profitable.”
Professor Turley may consider such reasoning “crazy,” but puppet leaders like Hamid Karzai have to recognize and address it, while American military and civilian leaders labor mightily for decades to see that the American people don’t.
“Afghan President Hamid Karzai spoke this weekend and accused the United States of colluding with . . . the Taliban.” — Jonathan Turley
To paraphrase slightly an old psychiatrist’s joke: ,
“Just because South Vietnam’s President Nguyen Van Thieu was paranoid, doesn’t mean that his American “ally,” Henry Kissinger, wasn’t negotiating secretly behind his back in Paris for three years with the North Vietnamese Communist Le Duc Tho.”
From a somewhat different perspective, I read a thoroughly jaded comment yesterday on another discussion forum to the effect that “the U.S. government doesn’t have anyone smart enough to negotiate with the Taliban.” After all, when the recently defrocked General David Petraeus ran things in Afghanistan a few years ago, he tried negotiating secretly with the Taliban and wound up getting duped by some nobody imposter.
When it comes to treacherous dealings with its foreign puppets, the issue for the United States government concerns not the existence of duplicity, but rather the lack of competence in carrying it through to a worthwhile conclusion — like getting the hell out of Afghanistan and returning to the proper and peaceful business of the nation. Afghan President Hamid Karzai can always join the Taliban, make deals with the drug-running warlords, and/or go to live in Dubai with his family and American money any time he so chooses. Who knows? He could even wind up running a small convenience store in Huntington Beach, California, just like former South Vietnamese Premier Nguyen Cao Ky. Your tax dollars at work, fellow Crimestoppers.
Great ¡V I should certainly pronounce, impressed with your website. I had no trouble navigating through all the tabs and related info ended up being truly simple to do to access. I recently found what I hoped for before you know it at all. Reasonably unusual. Is likely to appreciate it for those who add forums or something, site theme . a tones way for your client to communicate. Nice task..