Dumb and Dum-Dumer: Homeland Security Orders Huge Delivery of Hollow Point Bullets As Part of Military Buildup

DeptHomelandSec220px-JSP_and_JHP_bulletsFor months, conservatives and conspiracy theorists have been flogging a story of a huge arms buildup within the Department of Homeland Security. I was a bit taken aback by the purchase of roughly 2 billion rounds by the DHS as well as a report of the purchase of 2700 light-armored vehicles. However, it seemed like the coverage was over-wrought and that such bulk purchases could be viewed as efficient contracting to get the lowest possible price. Yet, now the DHS has reportedly ordered 360,000 addition rounds of hollow tip bullets (sometimes called Dum-Dum bullets) in addition to huge prior orders. I do not understand why such an arsenal has to be created within this one agency, particularly the use of these bullets designed to maximize damage to the human body.

DHS put out a call to purchase 360,000 rounds of “Commercial leaded training ammo (CLTA) Pistol .40 caliber 165 grain, jacketed hollow point.” The bullets are to be sent to the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Artesia, New Mexico, which already received 240,000 hollow point rounds just last month.

220px-.38_Special_mushrooming_side_viewI am not sure why our federal agents are practicing with hollow tips in the first place. Some have argued that these bullets reduce the risk of bullets traveling through suspects or material and hitting bystanders. However, international agreements have long identified such bullets as cruel and sought to bar their use. This includes the Hague Convention of 1899, Declaration III, that prohibits the use in international warfare of bullets that easily expand or flatten in the body.

I would like to understand why DHS is on such an overall buying spree of bullets and weapons. I do not subscribe to the conspiracy theories of a takeover or any of that nonsense. However, as a civil libertarian, I am concerned with the expansion of a security state in the United States with what is becoming a fully functional internal police army. This goes beyond the hollow tip bullets, which may be better for training (though the number is breathtaking). It reminds one of other countries where internal police are paramilitary organizations. It is part of the new normal. We are now getting accustomed to seeing automatic weapons and military-style forces on our streets. We have discussed recurring stories of overkill where local police seem eager to attack homes with armored vehicles purchased as part of the “anti-terrorism” budget. What is surprising is that there is little discussion about the implication of this militarization of our society.

What do you think?

70 thoughts on “Dumb and Dum-Dumer: Homeland Security Orders Huge Delivery of Hollow Point Bullets As Part of Military Buildup

  1. I do not understand why such an arsenal has to be created within this one agency, particularly the use of these bullets designed to maximize damage to the human body.

    No rational American can understand it because it does not make American sense.

    It is an alien concept, just as “homeland” is.

  2. Ah, the gun culture … dum-dums for everyone!

    To quote from an earlier JT posting:

    “The question remains why hollow points are standard equipment for domestic federal law enforcement. The Hague Convention of 1899, Declaration III, prohibits the use of bullets which easily expand or flatten in the body. This is a provision governing the weapons used in “warfare.” Notably, England fought to keep dum dums legal in the Hague in 1899, but only one country supported it . . . the United States (which wanted to use them in the Philippines). The vote was 22-2.”


  3. If it’s at a training center, it may be to lessen the damage to the back wall of an indoor firing range. Other options (“wad cutter” bullets for example) are much lighter in weight and wouldn’t have the trajectory or recoil characteristics of the 165 grain bullet.

  4. “I do not understand why such an arsenal has to be created within this one agency, particularly the use of these bullets designed to maximize damage to the human body.”

    It could just be a massive subsidy program like most “defense” spending. I mean, if not to keep the Cold War defense funding structure intact, what could the War on Terror be about (if not an all-out fascist coup)?

  5. One seldom uses hollow point bullets with which to train. “Hardball” solid rounds offer a better round for training since they cost less. Perhaps the “Homeland” security types remain stupid or “uneconomic” or misinformed or intend something other than training. While “hardball” may pass through the intended victim, hollow points offer a much more harmful wound and, therefore, international law prohibits their use in warfare. Of course, I would not use international law as a guide: it allows the flame thrower…in my opinion, a much more horrible weapon than a pistol loaded with hardball or dumb dumbed bullets.

  6. The reason that hollow points are good for law enforcement use is that you get less collateral damage when using them in a civil setting. I had hollow points for my pistols when I lived in an apartment complex because I did not wish to kill my fellow residents five doors down if I had to use my gun in self defense.

    Then you forget that this place is where the Air Marshalls and armed pilots are trained, and those people NEED those kinds of bullets since you want the bullet to stop in the body of the target or have lost enough energy so as not to punch through the aircraft skin after having been fired. Police work and military operations are quite different and have much different requirements which is why the Hague conventions do not apply to police. I have no problem with that at all.

  7. I do not subscribe to the conspiracy theories of a takeover or any of that nonsense.”

    That is because you are socially constrained, because it would ruin your career.

    The fear to speak out is contoured according to social standing.

    That aside, one cannot “takeover” what is already obviously taken over.

    How long would it take to produce a competent report detailing how to take over a city or state within the U.S. … days, weeks, months, or years?

    The answer to that is the answer, in part, to the nature of the following report:

    A new report by the U.S. Army War College talks about the possibility of Pentagon resources and troops being used should the economic crisis lead to civil unrest, such as protests against businesses and government or runs on beleaguered banks.

    “Widespread civil violence inside the United States would force the defense establishment to reorient priorities in extremis to defend basic domestic order and human security,” said the War College report.

    The study says economic collapse, terrorism and loss of legal order are among possible domestic shocks that might require military action within the U.S.

    (Phoenix Business Journal, “Ariz. police say they are prepared as War College warns military must prep for unrest; IMF warns of economic riots“, emphasis added). The news report is dated Dec 17, 2008.

    Senator John McCain had said not long before that, during the presidential election of that year, “what economic problems.”

    There were no economic problems of a magnitude that would legally allow the military to take to the streets of America back then, so it begs the question, how long does the military take to produce such an all encompassing attack plan, and train the police accordingly?

    That answer gets worse the further back it goes, i.e., the longer it takes to produce such a comprehensive report and then deploy it to USNORTHCOM.

    Going back in time to when there was a government budget surplus (~2000) and low unemployment, and contemplating having to put troops in the streets to put down an economic rebellion raises questions.

    What information could they possibly have that such a massive economic collapse was going to take place?

    Thus the question, “what is the difference between ‘planned together’ and ‘conspired together’ in this context?”

    The answer is the result intended as the reason for the “collaboration.”

    If the result is a legal one, then it is “planned together”, but if the result is a crime then the proper term is “conspired together”:

    The concept of criminal conspiracy has its earliest roots in fourteenth century English common law. At that time, it saw limited use as a legal theory. It became more broadly applied in the United States in the nineteenth century, though still the scope of prosecutions was not wide. Today, however, conspiracy is a far-reaching legal principle, embracing antitrust actions, an enormous number of more traditional criminal cases, and even tort lawsuits. It is the basis of prosecutions dealing with, among other crimes, drug violations, securities fraud, murder for hire, bank robbery, and extortion.

    … Conspiracy is an agreement by two or more people to commit a crime.

    (Conspiracy Theory, Law). What can transform a “conspiracy theory” into mere “planning together” is to make what was once criminal no longer a crime.

    Where there is no crime, there cannot be any criminal conspiracy theory advanced by a prosecutor.

    Seen any repeal of laws relating to financial regulations, banks, etc. during that time frame?

    If so, then you are correct to disparage those who would allege conspiracy, because where something is no longer a crime, no such conspiracy can take place.

    However, does that erase a problem or create a worse one?

    Will people one day say “bring back the conspiracy theory” please?

  8. A national strike and retail boycott should suffice to cripple the economy and force govt resignation. No need for violence

  9. Well if you believe the US government is intent on effectively repealing the second amendment, the dollar is a doomed fiat currency given the fact the US debt is past the point of no return. The government can spy, rendition, assassinate, torture and commit crime with no recourse, then you probably don’t see that civil unrest in the US is a distinct possibility. The debt alone has the potential to collapse the dollar at pretty much anytime. Yes some naive Keynesian’s will tell you everything is fine, the federal reserve can just print dollars, so did Germany after WWI, Aegentina many times, Zimbabwe most recently, monetary history does not favor this course of action. So given any of these circumstances, dollar collapse, drones killing Americans, torture etc, it is plain to see that mass protest or riots could become normal. The US government is bent on hegemony, there own population seems to be being conditioned for a police state, it’s not conspiracy to see it happening. As the article states the police are becoming increasingly militarized, with constant news stories about police brutality, muder and corruption. The government has become fascist in many respects and regards its power and secrecy above that of its own population, this trend is not new, most of it began in the so called “progressive era”, under Wilson. Many no doubt will say this is merely contrarian, or conspiratorial, but any honest account of government power, once checked by the constitution has been destroyed purposely for government power.

  10. It is an alien concept, just as “homeland” is. -Dredd

    What’s in a name? A lot, apparently.

    “Rudy’s Duty
    Plus: Homeland ain’t no American word.”

    by Peggy Noonan, 2002



    “The name Homeland Security grates on a lot of people, understandably. Homeland isn’t really an American word, it’s not something we used to say or say now. It has a vaguely Teutonic ring–Ve must help ze Fuehrer protect ze Homeland!–and Republicans must always be on guard against sounding Teutonic.

    As a brilliant friend who is also actually an intellectual says, “I think it’s creepy, in a Nazi-resonating way, any time this sort of home-and-hearth language is used by people who are essentially police. When police honestly call themselves police, or ‘domestic security,’ I salute and say ‘Yes officer.’ When they call themselves ‘Protectors of the Hearth’ I get the creeps.” …

    Who could argue? Not me. (end of excerpt)

    …and I don’t often quote Peggy Noonan.

  11. The Trouble With “Homeland”

    It’s a creepy, morale-sapping word. Let’s drop it.

    By Mickey Kaus
    June 14, 2002



    1) It’s Un-American: “Homeland,” as Noonan notes, isn’t a word Americans have been used to using. It’s word Germans have been used to using. “Heimat,” a common German word, means home — and not home as in “home and hearth” either (that’s “heim”). “Heimat” means “home” as in a place or nation that’s home. “Heimatland” is the literal analog of “homeland,” as I understand it. It’s not specifically a Nazi word — it’s a general patriotic and sentimental word. It was used during World War I, for example. My mother, who was born in Germany but fled at age 10, can sing from memory a pre-Hitler song with “Heimatland” in it. Still, Nazi or not, the word is uncomfortably Teutonic-sounding. (And you don’t think the Nazis appropriated it?) My raw sentiments are these: I’m an American, not a German. My father fought in a bloody war so I wouldn’t have to be a German. Why is the Bush administration telling me I need to be German now?

    “Homeland” is un-American in another way: it explicitly ties our sentiments to the land, not to our ideas. Logically, this step makes no sense (presumably we want to stop terrorism even if it targets Americans and American institutions abroad). It also misses the exceptional American contribution that’s worth defending. People throughout history have felt sentimental attachment to their land.

    We’re sentimentally attached to something less geographic: i.e., freedom.

    End of excerpt.

    And it would seem that we’re stuck with it… and all that has followed…

  12. Under the recently authorized Trespass Bill, H.R. 347, protesters that allegedly disrupt occurrences acknowledged by the DHS of being a National Special Security Event will be charged with a federal crime. As the DHS gains more and more ground in fighting terrorism domestically, the US at the same time has turned the tables to make its definition of terrorist way less narrow. With any American blogger or free thinking on the fringe of what the government can go after under H.R. 347, or the National Defense Authorization Act that allows for the indefinite detention of US citizens without charge, the DHS could just be blasting through what’s left of its budget to make sure that its roster of agents across the country can get in their target practice over the next few years.

  13. Does anyone happen to have the bullet orders from similar organizations? Or what they’ve been in the past?

    I mean, how many times in the past 6 years have we been told breathlessly that Obama’s been doing something horrible and literally using the tax payers money as toilet paper, when it turns out that he uses two ply instead of the Three Ply Bush the Younger insisted on?

  14. “So ya
    Thought ya
    Might like to go to the show.
    To feel the warm thrill of confusion
    That space cadet glow.
    Tell me is something eluding you, sunshine?
    Is this not what you expected to see?
    If you wanna find out what’s behind these cold eyes
    You’ll just have to claw your way through this disguise.”

    Repeal the Patriot Act.
    Dismantle DHS.
    Our country was founded upon the usurpation of tyranny.
    It’s the American thing to do.

  15. …and then came the fusion centers. More money well spent. Dumb and dumber, to be sure.

    Homeland Security ‘fusion’ centers spy on citizens, produce ‘shoddy’ work, report says

    By Michael Isikoff
    NBC News



    “The ranking Republican on a Senate panel on Wednesday accused the Department of Homeland Security of hiding embarrassing information about its so-called “fusion” intelligence sharing centers, charging that the program has wasted hundreds of millions of dollars while contributing little to the country’s counterterrorism efforts.

    The fusion centers, created under President George W. Bush and expanded under President Barack Obama, consist of special teams of federal , state and local officials collecting and analyzing intelligence on suspicious activities throughout the country. They have been hailed by Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano as “one of the centerpieces” of the nation’s counterterrorism efforts.

    But Sen. Tom Coburn of Oklahoma, the ranking Republican on the panel, charged Wednesday that Homeland Security had tried to bury evidence of problems at the centers.

    “Unfortunately, DHS has resisted oversight of these centers,” he said. “The Department opted not to inform Congress or the public of serious problems plaguing its fusion centers and broader intelligence efforts. When this subcommittee requested documents that would help it identify these issues, the department initially resisted turning them over, arguing that they were protected by privilege, too sensitive to share, were protected by confidentiality agreements, or did not exist at all. The American people deserve better. I hope this report will help generate the reforms that will help keep our country safe.”

  16. Repeal the Patriot Act.
    Dismantle DHS.
    Our country was founded upon the usurpation of tyranny.
    It’s the American thing to do. -Gene H.


  17. Whatever else may be said about quantity etc understand something important about hollow point rounds: The deflect much less than fully jacketed ones.

    If you are firing in an environment with lots of hard objects for bullets to ricochet off of then they actually make for a safer situation for by-standers.

    Now why they need them in these numbers? Well I have no idea, maybe they require constant practice (they should!) and buying at this level would be cheaper. Anyone know how many rounds the FBI buys? Years ago I took a tour of their place in DC & they showed us the barrels (yes, barrels!) of expended casings from just a week of mandatory practice for their DC agents.

  18. Gene H. 1, March 26, 2013 at 10:17 am

    “So ya
    Thought ya
    Might like to go to the show.
    To feel the warm thrill of confusion
    That space cadet glow.
    Tell me is something eluding you, sunshine?
    Is this not what you expected to see?
    If you wanna find out what’s behind these cold eyes
    You’ll just have to claw your way through this disguise.”

    Repeal the Patriot Act.
    Dismantle DHS.
    Our country was founded upon the usurpation of tyranny.
    It’s the American thing to do.
    Pink Floyd.

    We need to get our national sanity back by doing what you said following that colorful colloquy.

  19. Arthur Randolph Erb 1, March 26, 2013 at 9:35 am

    … hollow points are good for law enforcement use … I have no problem with that at all.
    Doesn’t that beg the question “what law is being enforced?”

    Tyranny has its laws too.

    I have a problem with enforcing the laws of tyrants.

  20. Foster Gamble, creator of the Thrive documentary on the Global Domination Agenda (GDA)–yes it’s a conspiracy theory, but one worth paying attention to–also raised questions about these bullet purchases in his 3/19/13 blog. In the background of the Patriot Act destruction of constitutional rights, surveillance drones, FEMA camps, NDAA indefinite detention, cancellation of Posse Comitatus and railway cars with shackles, these bullets give one more reason to wakeup and ask what’s going on. Read his blog at:


  21. Clarification:

    I post as “anonymously posted”, not “Anonymously posted”, FWIW. ;-) I – lower case “ap” — didn’t post the “Foster Gamble”… comment.

  22. Dum Dum bullets and hollow points are two different things. “Dum Dum bullets,” are named for the Dum Dum Arsenal where they were invented in a town near Calcutta, India in the late 1800s. They are soft-nosed projectiles, not hollow points. That means they do not have a hollow point, but the nose of the bullet is made of a softer metal that expands or flattens when it hits something.

    Hollow points have a hollowed out nose, often with notches around the hollow nose. Their purpose is to cause the bullet to fragment whenever it hits any object. That means it is less likely to pass through a Sheetrock wall, the skin of a pressurized airplane, or through a living target and kill somebody behind.

    Hollow point ammunition has never been illegal or proscribed for law enforcement, and is permitted as a hunting round. As most of the regulars here know, I have worked with law enforcement for decades. This is old news to me. As for target practice, the average person is often surprised at how many rounds an officer or sport target shooter will use in target practice. I just bought a box of 500 pistol rounds for my daughter. She will probably go through most of them in one afternoon at the range. Large quantities of ammunition are needed for practice. Practice is important for an officer. Their lives may depend on it.

    As for the quantity purchased by DHS, I have no idea. That number would have to be divided by the number of agents who will be using them to get some idea of whether this is a practical number or not. It really seems like a lot. The downside is that the huge purchases have created an ammunition shortage. The shortages have negatively affected local law enforcement agencies as well as sporting shooters, not to mention driving prices sky high.

    Lt. Dave Grossi (Ret.) writes a column for Law Officer, and his column for May 2012 is online. Lt. Grossi addresses both the history of these rounds and explains why they are preferred for law enforcement use. He also addresses the Geneva Convention rules.

    Lt. Grossi’s article is at the link below. It is not long, but informative for those not familiar with these rounds.

  23. This may be somewhat off topic, but there has been a lot of discussion on the internet about automatic rifles. Some Federally licensed shooting ranges have full auto weapons to rent onsite, legally. It is interesting and fun to shoot a machine gun at an old refrigerator, but most true assault rifles shoot between 600 and 1,200 rounds per minute. Given that ammunition may run from 75 cents up to about $2.50 per round, I have no desire to burn through two or three hundred dollars worth of ammo in 15 seconds.

    There are a small number of places where one can rent a “Gatling gun” type mini-gun for target practice. They fire up to 6,000 rounds per minute. That means one brief trigger pull can cost over a thousand dollars.

    Even for the most avid hobbyist shooter, that is far too painful to contemplate. There was a TV documentary recently about a company that makes armored vehicles for VIPs, from the President on down. Typically, in a convoy of VIP escort vehicles, one or more of them will have a retractable mini gun. The brief video below was produced by the company that builds these armored (and armed) escort vehicles. Those who know how many of these exist aren’t talking.

  24. What Otteray Scribe Said.

    Jacketed Hollow Point (JHP) is the the de facto standard police bullet in the United States. .40 caliber is the most common size, followed by 9mm

    For training purposes, it is a matter of the situation as to whether JHP or Full Metal Jacket (FMJ) is issued, or less commonly Round Nose (RN) or Semi-Wad Cutter (SWC) which are more or less lead bullets with or without a small copper jacket.

    Generally RN is cheaper, but there is a growing concern of using this within indoor ranges due to the lead dust problem, plus it gums up the pistols easier, requiring a bit more cleaning.

    FMJ is the second cheapest generally and works in indoor ranges, but there are some issues using metal targets because of deflection, breaking the target, and it can cause divots to form in the metal target which can redirect subsequent bullets in unpredictable directions. It is not an issue for paper targets

    RN or JHP are good for metal targets (except the dust issue with RN) Metal targets are becoming more used but it is also a matter of cost efficiency. If a department bought a large shipment of JPH it might be close enough in cost to FMJ to offset a bit the savings vs versatility.

    It can also be argued that training with the same ammunition that is used on duty is a better training situation, but cost benefit tends to favor in most cases using “range ammo” which is cheaper to use for training.

    For usages, it is not unusual at an academy to go througth 5,000 rounds per rookie. I would estimate that at 600 rounds per year is not unusual for yearly qualification per officer and probably 100 more rounds for equipping that officer. (I carried 49 rounds in my magazines and pistol when I was at work)

    It should be explained why DHS is asking for billions of rounds. Look at the numbers and make judgements based upon their personnel. The number of armoured cars seems excessive to me though.

  25. ap,

    Set up an email for blog only … find an appropriate pic then go to https://en.gravatar.com (notice the s after http indicating secure site) … register the email and upload the pic. then sign into the blog. It only takes a minute or two and protects you from those who would either purposely or mistakenly usurp your id.

  26. Blouise,

    “find an appropriate pic” :-) made me smile for some reason… what? ar you thinking that I’ll post an inappropriate one?? just kidding…

    in all seriousness, though, thanks. it’s time, i suppose.

  27. Little ap,

    Blouse is correct… Some will and do use others names… Sometimes intentionally, sometimes unintentionally…. But then again, there’s no penalty for staying the way you are….

  28. Darren, I agree with all you’ve said and will add that the number seems excessive. (vehicles and ammunition). Of course the DHS could become the national LE ammunition distributor, which would ease some issues with rogue Colorado Sheriffs going off-script: “Toe the line, or have empty guns – your choice Boss.”

    Only civil liability issues require LEOs to qualify with hollow-point bullets. Even then, a single “qualification” shooting session and not the run-up practice/training requires the use of “Issue” or “Duty” ammo.

    Re: armored vehicles? VIPR for a start.
    Secure patrol vehicles with an eye towards a 1 to 100 force multiplier.
    100 cops, put down a student loan protest by 10,000 with no LEO injuries.

    I’m feeling like we’re seeing preparations for a Northern Ireland police-presence, right down to the surveillance, warrantless seizure/apprehensions and Bloc prisons.

    Reeks of one-party rule: The Monied Party.
    Shut-up, pay, stay out of my way… or I’ll have you tossed in The Hole.

  29. I will have to find the link, but I read earlier today that the amount of bullets that DHS was actually less than the prior year or years. I will have to find the link.

  30. Raff,

    It’s amazing how many times “Obama’s doing X” turns out to be “Obama’s doing the same thing that’s been done in the past.”

  31. ap,

    Appropriate to you ;)

    Of course you could ask your blog mates for suggestions … lol

    My contribution:

  32. Trayvon Martin was killed with a hollow-point bullet, which is the only reason I know what a hollow-point bullet is. Trayvon Martin might well have lived if that bullet had not been a hollow-point. It seems that a witness came out of his house after the killing and chatted with George Zimmerman about what kind of ammo he had used. Sick sonza-itchesbay. At that point in time, who knows if life-saving efforts being made by that witness and the hapless killer might have contributed to the possible saving of a life that evening. Anyway, it is my opinion that hollow-point bullets are not needed by weak-minded racist citizens whose conceal and carry permits make them feel more empowered on grocery store trips.

    Blouise, about that picture: the hat will make it into the “worst dressed” column of Women’s Wear Daily!

  33. Blouise,

    My old eyes… That was to have been a full smile and my trademark “…”, not commas…

  34. Blouise wrote:


    “Appropriate to you ;)

    Of course you could ask your blog mates for suggestions … lol”

    Here’s a thought:


  35. ap,

    That’s on the outside. On the inside you’re a soft and fluffly little guinea pig looking for a party.

  36. raff,
    As I read it, the debunking part is the myth all that ammo is being bought up to keep people from defending themselves when the Zombie Apocalypse comes…..or something like that.

    IMHO, the main reason the Feds are buying all that stuff is for the same reason bureaucrats often buy more than they need. Because they can. If they don’t spend all the money in their budget before the end of the fiscal year, it is returned to the General Fund, and next year their budget will be cut because they ended the year with a surplus.

    What will actually happen to it is that it will sit in storage until they give it away (law enforcement and/or foreign military), or the powder in the cartridges eventually goes bad.

  37. Otteray.

    Some agencies have a practice in that after a year, the duty ammo that they carried in cars on on the officers is used as qualifying ammo on the range and new ammo is then given out to the officers just to make sure it still works best.

    One year, probably 2009 or 2010 I don’t remember which, our department ran out of range ammo and we could not get enough in time for the next range shoot due to the shortage and the budget situation the county was in at the time. So, someone bought a lot of reloads from some person who lived in the county. The quality of the rounds was bad. We had two hang-fires and the ammo was greatly underpowered, nearly eveyone’s score was lower because the rounds were dropping down on the targets.

    One deputy had a rather close call. I watched while he was shooting at a target and one shot sounded rather odd. The deputy LUCKILY was concerned and stopped his session after he heard the strange sound his pistol made. They then field stripped the pistol and discovered a bullet still lodged half way down the pipe. Had he fired another round it would have been really ugly a situation.

  38. Darren,
    You probably already know this, but modern smokeless powder deteriorates much faster than black powder. That is why buried ordnance from the civil war is still dangerous.

    Twenty or thirty years ago, I was consulted on the case of an elderly man who was terminally ill with cancer and just wanted to get it over with. He tried to commit suicide by putting the muzzle of a pistol in his mouth and pulling the trigger….twice. The oral surgeon had extracted two 9mm rounds from the soft tissue in the back of his throat. I asked him where he got the pistol. In a raspy voice, he replied, “I took it off a dead German officer in France.”

    That ammo had been in the pistol since 1944.

  39. So last year DHS ordered 1.6 billion rounds and if I’ve been keeping track correctly through Feb. of this year they have ordered about an additional half billion and now they are ordering even more. If they already bought in bulk to save why do they keep buying more and was this last buying spree after the “sequester” that is causing all kinds of cutbacks throughout the country.

  40. Blouise, I’d like a smiling emoticon that’s just a tad more subdued than that one… ;-) — one that’s a cross between the two… The one at 10:01 is just a little, too cheerful for my taste.

  41. ON ONE HAND: I do not subscribe to the conspiracy theories of a takeover or any of that nonsense.

    THEN ON THE OTHER: However, as a civil libertarian, I am concerned with the expansion of a security state in the United States with what is becoming a fully functional internal police army.

    The government keeps the propaganda machine going telling people everything is Oky Doky…while at the same time it looks as though they are getting ready for something…

    We’ll just have to wait & see eh?

  42. Arthur Randolph Erb: “Police work and military operations are quite different and have much different requirements”

    Not any longer.

  43. pete9999

    Truth? I not at all fond of “the smileys”, but they serve an arguably useful purpose, sometimes, when commenting…

  44. “ON ONE HAND: I do not subscribe to the conspiracy theories of a takeover or any of that nonsense.

    THEN ON THE OTHER: However, as a civil libertarian, I am concerned with the expansion of a security state in the United States with what is becoming a fully functional internal police army.”

    The thing is, just because something agrees with you, doesn’t mean you should believe it.

    There’s a lot of things wrong with the Department of Homeland Security, things that should get attention. Very few of those things has to do with the logistics of their ammunition supply, and there’s only so much attention to give.

  45. I think the reason there’s not more of a reaction to the militarization of our society is because people aren’t aware it’s happening.

  46. “Those who put their faith in guns tend to favor hollow-point bullets that kill more effectively, the very basest of functions.”

    “Those who rely on guns and bullets to “save” them are filled with fear. They believe their brothers are out to get them, and that there is no loving Creator to protect them.”

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