Kansas District To Force Students To Attend Lecture On Dinosaurs By Creationist Group

docphoto220px-Triceratops_AMNH_01The Palinotologists are back. A Kansas school district is refusing to back down from a plan for mandatory assemblies featuring a creationist group to explain the history of dinosaurs. Despite overwhelming data and testing showing the world is millions of years old, many creationists insist that Earth is only a few thousand years old. Dinosaurs represent a bit of a problem of course. The solution, as famously stated by that American intellectual Sarah Palin, is that men co-existed with dinosaurs. Hugoton Public Schools invited Creation Truth Foundation’s founder Dr. G. Thomas Sharp to teach the “Truth about Dinosaurs” at two assemblies. Hugoton Public Schools superintendent Mark Crawford however insists that students must hear about science from this biblically based group.

The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) has warned the district that such assemblies cross the line into religious indoctrination. The group is committed to a biblical understanding of dinosaurs. The group features such sites as “Darwin was wrong” to correct fundamental misunderstandings of evolution. The group however denounces science as a threat to faith:

The basic reason for these problems, however, is the absence of belief in the Bible as basic truth, especially within the realm of science. If one cannot believe the Bible is true in one area, then the Bible’s authority in all areas is questionable. Therefore, believing in the scientific and historic truth of the Bible is pivotal to belief in God’s Word as absolute Truth.

9205907Crawford refused to the cancel the event by insisting the group will not teach creationism. However, this is a religiously based group that rejects evolution and is committed to denying evolution. Why ask this group? The group treats dinosaurs as seductive items used by secularists (he spends a huge amount of time arguing with Jurassic Park, the movie).

In this video, Thomas works to convince people that there is no more objective basis for evolution than creationism so you can simply pick one over the other. It is full of misrepresentations of the geological and paleontological records. He insists that God made “God’s Gospel lizards” on day six and they were taken on the ark by Noah (but just “young folks” among the dinosaurs):

Thomas denounces those who ignore the key of Adam’s sin in this record as his concept of science and resisting the secular conspiracy to “dumb down” students. The use of such a science-denying group to teach about dinosaurs is shocking. Kansas has a huge dinosaur collection and countless experts. Yet, Crawford found this group?

It is difficult to find much of Crawford’s background beyond his degrees from Emporia State University, Wichita State University, and Southwestern College.

As for Thomas, his scientific knowledge comes from B.S. (Bachelor of Science) from Purdue University, obtained a Master’s at the University of Oklahoma, and a Ph.D from South Florida Bible College and Seminary. In the video above, Thomas asks the crowd if they ever wondered why science used Latin (and the metric system) rather than English to confuse and disadvantage laypersons in understanding it. The lecture turns back to the Bible to show that it was accurate and mentioned dinosaurs by other terms like dragons. He also tells people that there are “lots of evidence” of dinosaurs living with men that prove that they were created by God the day before the creation of man. The lecture is actually fascinating in how pseudo-scientific claims can be twisted to suggest an objective basis to disprove evolution and to show that the “biblical view” is the only true view.

Coming to a Kansas school near you . . .

Source: Raw Story

77 thoughts on “Kansas District To Force Students To Attend Lecture On Dinosaurs By Creationist Group

  1. Jonathan,

    I found the following article recently when I was doing some research on the myth of the Loch Ness monster:

    Loch Ness Monster seen as real dinosaur in biology books taught in Louisiana school
    The startling claim about Nessie’s authenticity is reportedly made to bolster creationism within the textbook. The Loch Ness Monster is described as a type of dinosaur, and if dinosaurs and man co-exist, then presumably there would be holes in the scientific argument for evolution.
    Comments (36)
    By Erik Ortiz / NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
    Tuesday, June 26, 2012
    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/loch-ness-monster-real-dinosaur-biology-books-taught-louisiana-school-article-1.1102340

    Excerpt:
    The Scottish legend of the Loch Ness Monster is suggested as truth in a biology book that a private Christian school in Louisiana is using in its curriculum.

    But that’s only part of the outrage from critics: Students who are eligible for taxpayer-funded vouchers will be allowed to attend Eternity Christian Academy in Westlake for the 2012-13 school year, according to reports.

    The startling claim about Nessie’s authenticity is made to bolster creationism within the textbook, the Scotsman newspaper reported Monday. The Loch Ness Monster is described as a type of dinosaur, and if dinosaurs and man co-exist, then presumably there would be holes in the scientific argument for evolution.

    The textbook, produced by Accelerated Christian Education, features a passage about the Loch Ness Monster in the Biology 1099 edition, Scotland’s The Herald reported.

    “Are dinosaurs alive today? Scientists are becoming more convinced of their existence,” the textbook reads, according to the newspaper.

    “Have you heard of the ‘Loch Ness Monster’ in Scotland? ‘Nessie’ for short has been recorded on sonar from a small submarine, described by eyewitnesses, and photographed by others. Nessie appears to be a plesiosaur.”

    Bruce Wilson, who blogs about religion and right-wing politics, estimates 200,000 students who receive publicly-funded vouchers are learning from such a curriculum. Louisiana’s voucher program will allow poor and middle-class children to attend private schools.

  2. Does the bible say how long a day is?

    Do these people really believe man and dinosaurs existed at the same time? God damn, that is like believing soicalism works.

  3. The UN Convention On The Rights Of The Child attempts to prevent children being considered ‘possessions’. As such, parent’s are the guardians of children and there are defined rights for their well-being.

    This includes not subjecting children to abusive brainwashing of this kind.

    Pity the USofA hasn’t bothered to ratify it.

  4. This is only the latest round in this battle for who gets to define reality. Wait until the Koch’s purchase your local newspaper.

  5. Would it be ”bad form” to stand up in the middle of the assembly and laugh in their faces???

  6. “God damn, that is like believing soicalism works.”

    Bron,

    Or like believing Ayn Rand wasn’t a sociopath, or that Von Mises was an economist. Strange how delusional beliefs about science are akin to delusional beliefs about economics. :)

  7. Why is it that if a school insisted on teaching students 1 + 1 = 3 there would be a row but teaching creationism as science is accepted by many as being legitimate academics?

    Now the forces of politics and face has taken hold. The lawsuit by the ACLU will probably be inevitable. When stupidity, small man syndrome, politics, and bureaucratic arrogance are combined they will never back down despite convincing evidence and conventional wisdom that it would be the best course of action.

    THe only thing that will stop that is if some higher authority to them puts an end to it. But if not, the suit will happen, the school will pay out considerable money, then they will insist the ACLU is the evil bad guy and will work to implement some smoke and mirrors trick to continue doing what they just got sued over. And then the suit will happen again.

    This is what happens when the stupid get into positions such as politics or bureaucracies.

  8. It is amazing how much money school districts are willing to lose by the lawsuits they have to defend because of this kind of idiocy

  9. Bron, There was an interesting piece in the NYT about Denmark, which has an uber nanny govt. People are now realizing it just leads to “no accounts” bleeding hard working people to death. “Sooner or later you run out of other people’s money.”

  10. Happy Earth Day!

    Some folks don’t know much about the Earth, including its history and that if we kill it we axiomatically kill ourselves as well.

  11. In the quote they say:
    “If one cannot believe the Bible is true in one area, then the Bible’s authority in all areas is questionable. Therefore, believing in the scientific and historic truth of the Bible is pivotal to belief in God’s Word as absolute Truth.”
    I would state, as a Christian, that the Bibles authority in all areas is questionable. I have asked questions, and received good answers which satisfy me in the areas that I consider to matter.
    Therefore, I do not consider their statement beginning ‘Therefore’ to be a true argument following their previous statement.
    Just because something is questionable, does not mean it is not true; the aim of the questions is to determine the truth or falsehood of what is being questioned.

    The Nicene Creed, (http://anglicansonline.org/basics/nicene.html) which is a statement of what Christians believe, has no need to mention creation occurring in a specified time period. If God is all powerful, then he is just as capable of creating the universe over billions of years, and creating man via evolution, as he is of making it all in an instant, as a complete and finished product.

  12. Coming soon; a Kansas court case of parents suing a school district after their child flunks Science over Earth age, definition of Epochs, etc. I look forward to the rulings.

  13. Now I am being to see the Flinstones in a whole different light….. Was it real….A depiction of Historical accounts…. Gotta be….

  14. Ben Sanders, which creator is that? What evidence exists for a single creator of anything? Hint: allegedly “holy” books are not evidence.

  15. The article doesn’t say the age of the students but suggests all students. High school students may laugh/boo the man off the stage. Middle school students will have skepticism and confusion that will be straightened out at home. Some will end up believing the fiction, others will challenge it. Elementary students will believe it.

    We tend to remember best what we learn at an early age and build on it. Let’s hope these students are able to recognize that science grows by leaps and bounds and that what they learned in middle school and high school get better explanations over the years. Science and Social Studies texts have changed the most since I was in school. Social Studies and History classes now teach what I learned as Current Events.

  16. Believing in macro evolution takes more faith than believing in creation.
    If you want to put your faith in a theory that makes time your god and the “geological column” your Bible, go ahead. But don’t scoff that someone has a different religious belief than you. And don’t fool yourself, evolution is a religion.

  17. Scientists employ Latin to confuse the masses. Here at the dogpac we employ PigLatin to confuse WordPress. So, these dumbupchucks with degrees in whatnot want to teach. There is an old adage which does not require much PigLatin. “Those who can, do. Those who can’t, teach. Those who can’t teach, teach teachers. Those who can’t teach teachers, preach. Those who preach eat peaches. Those who preach and eat peaches artFay in church.”

    Remember this adage class. Class! You fell asleep again. Must be that mountain air in W.VA. vestem verem facet. Clothes make the man. Wear your bibs for the lecture.

  18. This is not W.VA you BarkinDog, its KANSAS for dogs sake. Dorothy would not get confused here. Well, then the question does arise whether Kansas City is in Kansas or Missoura or both. And is not Wichita way out there south central yet southern just north of Okla City? And if so, were there not dinosaurs there recently?

  19. We got a dog in the dogpac who was a Scientologist in a prior life as a human but in this life he professes no religious thoughts whatsoever. He will remain un named but he often preaches about life, liberty and pursuit of doggedness. When he lived in Kansas he says that there was some tribe of guys called Jay Hawks. He wont explain anymore. Were they from the dinosaur period? Inquiring dogs want to know.

  20. itchinbay, As you apparently know, there is a KC, Mo. and KC, Ks. The former is the “real” KC. The latter is in Wyandotte Co. and a depressing town w/ little or no social redeeming value. Although, it’s more admirable than Johnson County, Ks. that produces people w/ their noses in the air even though they just started walking upright a couple generations ago.

  21. Mike Spindell:

    the immaculate conception is similar to socialists believing there is no end to other people’s money. :)

    Didnt mana fall from the heavens in the bible too?

  22. Bron,

    Are you talking about the socialists on Wall Street? The socialists who run corporations that pay no taxes? The socialist oil companies that are subsidized by taxpayers?

  23. Elaine:

    I am talking about all the socialists, the private socialists, the public socialists, the corporate socialists, the wall st. socialists.

    I am not the one who believes in government involvement in the economy.

  24. … * com-pute-her…
    …men will fall from their chair-riots…
    … Phill colons…, a MM,ment in time, y is a second only 1!…
    …an invisible touch-eh?x, III, I roamin IV ever: from GENISIS…
    …the mighty oak ia a-ok…
    …the great bear has come down…
    …the sands of time are in dunes…
    …a line has ben draw-in the sand by GOD from the beginning…
    …may-be a date two figure…
    …the church doors will Be slaMMed by the thou-sands…
    …the earth Will open U P and swallow the U N holy…
    …a sound will come from thee church’ss…
    …people will come to spit on the cross…
    …names will be changed…
    …they will learn to speak with the cross prop-purr-ly from their own Mouth’ss…
    …they will look upon the as cross as awe-full…
    … the cross will be torn down and restored to it’s proper position that it was ore-rid-gin-alley inTENed…
    … they will claim great rich’ss from the cross…
    …people will pray for a great heeling…
    …they will be full-filled by the cross thru the holy SPEAR-IT…
    …the cross will be known in the end time…
    …a wrap-sure that only GOD could think of…
    …people will be looking up speaking and with the cross…
    …bad language will becomeing from their mouth-ass-eh SIN…
    …pet-tat-too-WEE-TWO the cross can scene and the spit on every time they speak…
    …the cross will be spoke-an in many tongues…
    …the true words of: “JESUS CHRIST!” WOOD BE KNOWN THREW OUT THE WORLD ! …
    …at Judgement GOD will knot hear an Appollo-gee…
    …watts Inna name has been?,he changed HISSSSS to screams.

  25. “Believing in macro evolution takes more faith than believing in creation.”

    No it does not. In fact, “macro evolution” (whatever this is) requires no belief whatsoever to exist. Science is not a “belief system.” It is a method for sifting facts for the purposes of, if one is supremely lucky, uncovering deeper truths of our existence. It does this by asking questions.

    You want science to give you (false) answers so you can knock them down. This is not the role of science, to appease you or anyone.

    If you want answers, see: Religion, which shall only be scoffed if brought into our shared public square and forced on us as the basis of our public policy. You are otherwise free to believe whatever you wish.

    Deeper truths such as: the physical here-and-now you is vastly outnumbered by the cells which do not contain your genome. No belief is needed to discover this. But it does make previous instances of evolution seem like the kid gloves where True Believers are concerned.

  26. Bron says, “I am not the one who believes in government involvement in the economy.”

    This statement makes no sense. From whom is the government going to buy the things it needs? China? You?

    Not all government involvement in economics is “socialism,” but you wield this word with the same vigor as “communist” was wielded in the past, so it really is empty of meaning at this point. Like “hippie.” Or “tea partier.”

  27. I just cannot can not fathom how any right minded person can mix their religious beliefs and scientific facts. If they believe that the Bible is the only correct book of knowledge, just how the heck did Jonas Salk come up with a cure for polio when the Bible is silent on the issue?
    Elaine,
    I love the Zimmerman videos.

  28. Scientists use Latin to confuse lay people? Wish they had told me that when sitting through painfully long Latin masses in Europe when I was a kid. Talk about using Latin: the Catholic Church did just that; it is viewed by many ex-Catholics as myself as keeping lay people in their place and ignorant. I wonder if these people derived their comment from that example? Oh, don’t worry, they are wrong on this use of Latin.

  29. Elaine:

    I watched the creationism video but I am confused about one thing; Where did Eve get her lipstick? How could she have lipstick before God created the Avon Lady? My grandmother is nearly 102 and the oldest person I know. She was an Avon Lady and did not tell me Eve was a customer. Nobody is older than my grandmother that I know personally so nobody could have sold it to Eve. Creationism must not be true.

  30. And after the thread on the T-shirt arrest I didn’t think a school story could get me more twitched-up, silly me. Sue, sue, sue. This is what courts and the Constitution are for. Parents should attend with their children and heckle- advocating that the kids do it is putting a lot of weight on kids that their parents should more appropriately be hauling. Besides, if the kids heckle they might get arrested!

  31. But if you don’t believe in evolution, you loose out on believing one the coolest thing ever. That chicken you had for dinner? That’s descended from a dinosaur.

    T-rexes had a wishbone and everything.

    “And don’t fool yourself, evolution is a religion.”

    No, evolution is scientific theory that accurately predicts several observable phenomenon.

  32. Darren,

    I got word from the Creator that Eve used natural vegetation to make dyes to color her lips. I believe Avon ladies didn’t come on the beauty scene until sometime in the 17th century.

  33. Bettykath, sure they would. That’s their job. :-)

    Actually, I just freaked out a tad :-) A couple of posters seemed to fantasize about the kids showing some level of disrespect, planned or spontaneous, and that struck me as misplacing the responsibility. A court of law is the best remedy though. Preferably one that would issue an injunction against the lecture.

  34. Elaine, who was Eve trying to impress? She was stuck with Adam and it isn’t like he had much choice. LOL. I always thought she got her lip coloring from the rainbows the unicorns in the garden created as they flew by… I might have my memes mixed up though :-)

    Surely there were unicorns in the Garden and if those crazy Creationists don’t believe that then why even bother listening to them?

  35. Most students, today go to school with a cell phone in their pocket…. many of them ‘smart phones’. I know that there’s an App called… ‘Fog Horn’. I recommend that students put this App on their phones, and during this ridiculous Lecture, ”accidently” set their ‘Fog Horns’ off…. at their phone’s loudest volume………..

  36. Gyges: “But if you don’t believe in evolution, you loose out on believing one the coolest thing ever. That chicken you had for dinner? That’s descended from a dinosaur.”

    *****
    I KNOW!! No simple myth can match the magic and delight of what time and opportunity in nature can do. I recall reading “The Hot Blooded Dinosaur” when it was published and in the few page run-up to the conclusion I just couldn’t take it, I jumped up and did a happy-dance, BIRDS ARE DINOSAURS! WOOHOO! Srsly, little kids should be taken on a field trip to the park by their teachers to hunt for dinosaurs and be directed to their cleverly disguised offspring (somewhat removed in time) by way of introducing to evolutionary biology.

  37. Srsly, little kids should be taken on a field trip to the park by their teachers to hunt for dinosaurs and be directed to their cleverly disguised offspring (somewhat removed in time) by way of introducing to evolutionary biology.

    I actually did this with my son. He’s a HUGE dinosaur buff. We’ve gone through all the videos at the Library about anything prehistoric (the animation on the BBC specials is amazing btw), but especially about dinosaurs.

  38. Gyges, Good for you and your son. I watch a lot of the BBC documentaries and series of historical interest. They do bunches of them too, big topics and small.

    The current four part NOVA documentary about Australia, “Australia, The First Billion Years”, is a good one. Episode 3 which will highlight their big (prehistoric) land animals is coming up. If you or he have missed the first two, the third installment (This Wednesday, the 24th.) should delight a dinosaur buff as a stand alone episode. It’s titled “Monsters”. The forth episode is titled “Strange Creatures”. I’m sure the first two episodes will be available in re-run or maybe tucked away somewhere on the interwebs….

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/earth/australia-first-years.html#australia-monsters

  39. Well, of course you know the reason why there are no longer any dinosaurs around is because Jesus shot ’em all; which is more proof that God wants us to have guns. That’s why He gave us our second amendment.

  40. Lotta,

    Thanks for the heads up. We don’t generally watch T.V. What’s nice NOVA does a really good job of streaming things right from their site, so the first two episodes are already up.

  41. How about a story on Connecticut forcing blakc men into jail for nothing???

    ________________________________

  42. “You owe Sarah Palin and your readers an apology.”

    AVY,

    Sarah Palin owes this country an apology for not fading back into obscurity after running for Vice President and turning herself into a reality star. She demeaned the already demeaned office of Vice President by exhibiting a complete ignorance of our Constitutional System. She proved her commitment by resigning halfway through her term as Governor in search of big bucks. she is a clown and anyone who doesn’t understand that must have their perception questioned. Also don’t you recognize an ironic joke when you see one?

  43. AYY,

    Palin canny on religion and politics

    ANCHORAGE — Soon after Sarah Palin was elected mayor of the foothill town of Wasilla, Alaska, she startled a local music teacher by insisting in casual conversation that men and dinosaurs coexisted on an Earth created 6,000 years ago — about 65 million years after scientists say most dinosaurs became extinct — the teacher said.

    Which is exactly what Professor Turley wrote. Your link has nothing about how dinosaurs and men coexisted. I think you owe Professor Turley an apology.

  44. Nal,

    Even while they know their theory has been debunked…. Most folks are basically incapable of admitting that they are capable of being incorrect…. They either ignore the facts that hit them in the face, or they blow more smoke… And try and recruit allies…. It’s very obvious from where I sit….

  45. Nal, Prof Tuirley didn’t cite the basis for his statement, and hasn’t responded to my comment. You haven’t addressed the Snopes article. It’s been well documented that the left just made up quotes and attributed them to Sarah Palin during the 2008 election.

    So the LA Times sends a reporter up to Alaska to dig up dirt on Palin, when they don’t send anyone to Chicago to investigate Obana, and what does the ace reporter find to justify the time and expense of going to Alaska– why, a guy who writes a progressive bllog. They don’t verify the story, and a Palin spokesman says he’s never heard of it.

    I don’t know if that was what Prof Turley was relying on, because he didn’t tell us, but if it was, he should have mentioned that it was from the LA Times interview of a progressive blogger, so of course it had to be reliable.

  46. AYY:

    You haven’t addressed the Snopes article.

    Not true. I addressed the Snopes article by pointing out that it had nothing to do with what Professor Turley wrote.

    It’s been well documented that the left just made up quotes and attributed them to Sarah Palin during the 2008 election.

    Irrelevant to what Professor Turley actually wrote.

    They don’t verify the story, and a Palin spokesman says he’s never heard of it.

    So, the Palin spokesman didn’t deny the story.

  47. So on one hand, it’s ok for the schools to teach a belief in evolutionism, with a captive audience, no options on other theories, and it’s forbidden to question the adult fairytale also known as evolutionism, but on the other hand you can’t have any other belief, or even entertain the notion of teaching other possibilities.

    “Despite overwhelming data and testing showing the world is millions of years old, many creationists [sic] insist…”

    I have to call BS on this one. There is NOT “overwhelming evidence” about the age of the earth being such an astronomical amount. There are problems with even the most modern dating methods. Remember the Indian village found in a lava flow near the Grand Canyon? Are best dating methods had that area to be millions of years old. However the big problem is the Indian village camp remnants that were found date the flow to only a couple thousand years old.

    Also it’s interesting to note that the alleged age of the earth has increased exponentially only after a few decades. Every several years, the age of the earth is increased from millions to billions of years old. That’s a big red flag waving and demonstrating that we haven’t a clue how old the earth is.

    So it’s laughable when so many who entertain such stupid belief systems as evolution have the gall, the audacity to ridicule someone who recognizes the earth is a creation and things are CREATED, and logically, creation has a Creator.

  48. Hubert Cumberdale:

    Remember the Indian village found in a lava flow near the Grand Canyon? Are best dating methods had that area to be millions of years old.

    Fell free to provide a link.

  49. IIRC, Christopher Robin found dinosaurs in the park. Right? A.A. Milne actually debunked all that scientific clap-trap himself in a children’s story!

  50. AYY,

    Nal provided you proof that she said it. However, that doesn’t matter to you since you only used this as an excuse to try to castigate those you think of as liberals. In that you bot reveal ignorance of Professor Turley’s political stances which are hardly doctrinaire liberal. Also the truth is that you in defending Palin are defending someone of limited intellectual curiosity and an unending seeker of money and fame beyond her talents. Kim Kardashian would make a better VP than Palin and I don’t think that much of Kim’s talents either.

  51. “So on one hand, it’s ok for the schools to teach a belief in evolutionism, with a captive audience, no options on other theories, and it’s forbidden to question the adult fairytale also known as evolutionism, but on the other hand you can’t have any other belief, or even entertain the notion of teaching other possibilities.”

    Hubert,

    what you refuse to acknowledge is that evolution has been backed up by numerous experiments and research. This is how science works. “Creationism” is backed up by words in the bible and nothing else. Evolution is taught in science classes anbd represents the best in scientific knowledge. If somebody, via the scientific method comes up with a theory that shows evolution to be false then that too would be taught. The creationist beliefs being promulgated by you and others actually represent a minority of Christians. Most Christian religious leaders and doctrines acknowledge evolution. That you and your allies choose to think differently is your right. Please stop trying to indoctrinate and proselytize your beliefs upon people who are not interested.

  52. There’s apparently a lot of indoctrination going around:

    “Mississippi high school forces students to attend Christian lectures: lawsuit”

    “A high school in central Mississippi allegedly forced students to watch a Christian video and listen to church officials preach about Jesus Christ.

    The American Humanist Association’s legal center filed a lawsuit against Northwest Rankin High School in Flowood on Wednesday, accusing the school of violating the student’s First Amendment rights.

    The school has held at least three mandatory assemblies about finding hope in Jesus Christ this month, according to the lawsuit. The assemblies showed a video laced with Christian messages about overcoming personal hardships through Jesus Christ and were allegedly led by local church officials. ….

    The assemblies concluded with a prayer and teachers blocked the exits to prevent students from leaving, the lawsuit claimed. A disillusioned student videotaped one of the assemblies.”

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/04/25/mississippi-high-school-forced-students-to-attend-christian-lecture/

  53. Well J,

    You know The difference between Southern Baptist and Northern Baptist, right?

    The Northern Baptist say there ain’t no Hell and The Southern Baptist say the Hell there ain’t….

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