The War on Men

Submitted by: Mike Spindell, Guest Blogger

taranto-waronmen1As a male who met his wife at age 36, I had many years as a single male and many relationships with women. While being experienced sexually the idea of forcing myself on a woman was not only repellant, but emotionally I was and am unable to understand why men would do something like that.  Emotionally even as a fantasy, on film, or in literature I find nothing the least bit stimulating, or manly about forcing oneself upon an unwilling partner. Yet I understand it very well intellectually as a power trip having little to do with sex and much to do with an innate hostility towards women.. One of the places where it seems rape and sexual assault has run rampant has been the military.  A recent AP story has related that one third of fired military commanders were canned for sexual misconduct.  http://jezebel.com/5977856/nearly-a-third-of-fired-military-commanders-were-canned-because-of-their-penises Congress is discussing harsher military penalties for rape and sexual molestation. This is a disgraceful situation in my opinion and a continuance of women being treated as second class citizens.

In May, the Department of Defense released its “Annual Report on Sexual Assault in the Military,” which found that up to 26,000 service members may have been the victim of some form of sexual assault last year, up from an estimated 19,000 in 2010. The report also found that 62 percent of victims who reported their assault faced retaliation as a result. Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel responded to the report by calling the assaults “a despicable crime” that is “a threat to the safety and the welfare of our people,” and General Martin Dempsey affirmed that sexual assaults constitute a “crisis” in the military.

I find that the figure of 26,000 service members being victims of sexual assault this past year appalling. Almost all of those victims were females. Yet as we shall see there are some who minimize this behavior and seem to excuse it as just the natural workings of the male libido. I’ll explain.The following story came from this past week and appropriate linkages are provided:

“In an effort to address this longstanding problem, Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-MO) has blocked the promotion of Lt. Gen. Susan J. Helms, who granted clemency to an officer found guilty of sexual assault, in an effort to obtain more information about why the officer was effectively pardoned. As The Washington Post reported, an Air Force jury found the officer guilty of sexually assaulting a female lieutenant in the back seat of a car, and sentenced him to 60 days behind bars, a loss of pay, and dismissal from the Air Force.

Helms’ decision to effectively pardon the officer “ignored the recommendations of [her] legal advisers and overruled a jury’s findings — without publicly revealing why.” The Post explained that McCaskill has not placed a permanent hold on the promotion, but is “blocking Helms’s nomination until she receives more information about the general’s decision.”*

It goes further regarding McCaskill’s reasoning:

“But McCaskill is not trying to re-litigate the case; she is trying to determine why Helms ignored her legal advisers and overturned a jury of five Air Force officers. As the Post explained, advocacy groups charge that “any decision to overrule a jury’s verdict for no apparent reason has a powerful dampening effect,” contributing to a culture in which the majority of sexual assaults in the military remain unreported.

The Department of Defense report on sexual assault found that while 26,000 service members said they were assaulted last year, only about 11 percent of those cases were reported. The findings listed several reasons why individuals did not report the assault to a military authority, including that they “did not want anyone to know,” “felt uncomfortable making a report,” and “thought they would not be believed.” The report also noted that concerns about “negative scrutiny by others” keeps many victims from reporting their assaults.” http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/06/18/wsjs-taranto-dismisses-military-sexual-assault/194498

“The Wall Street Journal’s James Taranto dismissed the epidemic of sexual assault in the military, claiming that efforts to address the growing problem contributed to a “war on men” and an “effort to criminalize male sexuality.””

This is a transcript of Mr. Taranto’s interview” from The Wall Street Journal’s webshow Opinion Journal Live.

“MARY KISSEL (host): President Obama is fond of talking about the war on women, but what about the war on men? We’ve got Best of the Web Today columnist James Taranto here to talk about an especially perverse example of this war. James, who is Lieutenant General Susan Helms and how is she a victim of a war on men?

JAMES TARANTO: Well Susan Helms was a female pioneer, she was the first American military servicewoman in space. She graduated from the Air Force Academy in 1980, became an astronaut in 1990, flew on the space shuttle six times, four times as a crewman and twice as a passenger en route to the international space station, where by the way she set, along with a male astronaut, the record for longest space walk. She was working on a docking device known as a pressurized mating adaptor. And they were out in space for 8 hours and 56 minutes. 

KISSEL: I see. But your op-ed in the paper today says that she’s somehow a victim in a war on men? How is that?

TARANTO: That’s right. Well, this goes back to the effort to combat, the political campaign against sexual assault in the military. And this seems to be turning into an effort to criminalize male sexuality, much as we see with sexual conduct codes on campus. And so what happened was, the general exercised her authority to grant clemency to an officer under her command, a man named Captain Matthew Herrera, who had been convicted of aggravated sexual assault, in a case in which the factual underpinnings were quite thin. The general wrote a long memo explaining why she made this decision and it’s very convincing, and Senator Claire McCaskill has put a permanent hold on the general’s nomination. She was nominated by President Obama to serve as vice commander of the Air Force Space Command. Claire McCaskill says she’s not going to let her through, because she wants to callattention to this problem of sexual assault in the military.

KISSEL: So the women are always victims, regardless of the facts? 

TARANTO: Well here’s what happened in this case. It was a drunken sexual advance in the backseat of a moving vehicle, involving Captain Herrera and a female officer who was a lieutenant. They differed on whether it was, on who initiated it and whether she consented. She claimed that she fell asleep, woke up to find her pants undone and his hands on her genitals, he claimed that she undid her own pants, he touched her and she responded to the touch by putting her head on his shoulder. Now the officers in the front seat didn’t even hear this going on. But the officer who was driving, the designated driver, who was also a woman and by the way the only one who was sober, on several other disputed points corroborated his testimony and contradicted hers. In addition, there were text messages exchanged between the accuser and the defendant, after the incident. She claimed only a couple of times, then she changed her testimony when they looked at the logs of the text messages. And it turned out there were 116 of them, of which 51 were sent by her. So, it was pretty clear that this guy was overcharged, he would have ended up on a sex offender registry for the rest of his life if this had stood, he was still discharged from the military. 

KISSEL: What a perverse outcome here. So you have this really accomplished woman, in this lieutenant general who’s up for promotion, and getting held up by another woman because of the war on men. James, when did this war on men begin? Can you pinpoint a starting point?

TARANTO: Well, it all goes back to the beginning of contemporary feminism in the early ’60s. You know, women wanted to be equal to men, they wanted to be able to do all the sort of professional things including the military that men could do, and —

KISSEL: Was there anything wrong with that, though, James? I mean, that sounds —

TARANTO: Well, that’s too long to go into now, the question of what’s wrong with that, but in addition they wanted sexual freedom. Well what is female sexual freedom? It means, for this woman, that she had the freedom to get drunk, and to get in the backseat of the car with this guy. There was another woman who accused him, he was acquitted in this case, of sexual assault. This so-called assault happened in his bedroom, to which she voluntarily accompanied him, even the jury said that was consensual.

KISSEL: James, 30 seconds left. Is there any chance that Senator McCaskill’s going to reconsider this hold?

TARANTO: Well I certainly hope so, I mean that’s why I wrote the article. But I hope that her constituents will turn up the heat. Because Lieutenant General Helms lived up to her oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States. She really gave this guy the protection that anyone accused of a serious crime deserves. And McCaskill took the same oath, and she ought to uphold it.”http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/06/18/wsjs-taranto-dismisses-military-sexual-assault/194498 And: http://mediamatters.org/video/2013/06/18/wsjs-taranto-female-sexual-freedom-has-led-to-a/194507

So is this an example of “The War on Men” as Mr. Taranto describes it? Or is it the same old male hypocrisy justifying women as sexual objects created by God as Man’s playthings?  I’ve written in the past about the importance of female equality so you know where I stand. http://jonathanturley.org/2013/02/09/the-most-important-human-rights-issue-women/

Just like FOX News though I’m giving you the facts, you decide. Is there a war on men?

Submitted by: Mike Spindell, guest Blogger

88 thoughts on “The War on Men

  1. Interesting article Mike S,

    Everyone knows the ‘war on men’ is a myth. However, your article does elicit another line of thought: Is the Feminism movement dead, never was a movement, or modernized?

    Like the Civil Rights Movement, I believe the Women Rights Movement is dead. How were both movements destroyed? Via the old philosphy of divide and conquer. On one side: Many women have allowed men to use them (women) as sexual objects. By allowing men to use women as sexual objects via Playboy & other magazines, late night tv shows, Victoria Secret catalogs, and Go Daddy commercials, etc., and then, allowing men to create legislation that makes it very difficult to prosecute a man for rape of a woman (legitimization of raping women: the Today Show did a study showing that more than 52% of eligible women voters do not vote, making it very easy for men to do what they want in creating legislation), our current generation of men and women believe that it is ‘popular’ for women to be sexual objects in order to ‘get ahead or be successful’, ‘get a man’, or ‘flaunt it while you can, sister.’ (How many male, NASCAR drivers did took off more than half of their clothes to do a commercial to promote their race car or racing team?).

    With this in mind, why are we shocked that women are being treated as sexual objects? Can you be legally punished for raping an object?

    On the other side, their are women CEOs, doctors, lawyers, college presidents, stay-at-home moms, and regilous women, who believe that corporate America and our government is to blame for utilizing women as sexual objects (since historically women were treated as ‘4/5s of a white man’-as a former female college professor of mine stated-it is has been very difficult, these women believe, to become more than just ‘4/5s’ of a white man due to the many formal and informal hurdles or legislation designed to keep women as second class citizens. Therefore, it is very easy to use women as objects of many sorts to this day).

    Instead of uniting and going after the ‘ones’ who created this nightmare, women, like African-Americans, are now going after each other.

    My line of reasoning comes from this book: ‘Women’s Ways of Knowing: On Gaining a Voice’ by Goldberger, Clinchy, Belenky, & Tarule, 1987 & 1997 edition. My understanding of the Civil Rights & Women Rights Movement, and the following article.

    Please read this article:

    http://www.today.com/id/6933222/ns/today/t/thirty-years-later-feminism-dead/

  2. I forgot to add: There are some women, like some African-Americans, who believe that Feminism or the Women’ Right Movement have served it’s purpose, and it is time to move on. These women are either content to the current affairs, politics, or businsess, and therefore, refuse to be part of any current or future gender issue, or are too afraid to speak up for fear of retailation (i.e. they know that problems exist in society, on their jobs, etc…but they will not speak up for fear of losing their job, ‘new role in society’, bring harm to their careers, etc.). This is just an example of how women, like African-Americans, have become divided, and therefore, unable to become united on issues affecting not only their communities, but also their families and loved ones………..

  3. We are The Exceptional Nation. Therefore we fail to see our own warts, blemishes, crimes, misdemeanors, depraved behaviors or even smell our bad farts. So we highly criticize Muslim nations or Pirate Territories where women are treated about like we treat them in the Marines.

  4. And the worse part is to allow some commanding officer have any say at all when a subordinate is accused of sexual abuse or sex crime.

  5. WordPress was quite quick in not even letting me finish my name in the last comment. Look to the Commander in Chief and demand that he do something.

  6. Yeah. President Obama, as Commander In Chief, must announce a policy of No Rapist Left Behind. (Or no rapist left with an intact behind.) He needed to do that on Fathers Day. I guess now he needs to do this on July 4th.

  7. I think that every General needs to have one ribbon taken off of his uniform for every rape that occurs under his command. After that start with the buttons, then the zipper, shoes, socks, … Ever notice how decked out these high and mighty Generals are when they are on TV testifying before Congress? Ribbons and medals all over them.

  8. I keep hearing that ~half of the victims are male. Are they mostly female officers pulling rank..as it were, is it homosexual, or is it horseshit just thrown out there to try and make men care more about this. I’ve done some brief research but found no answers. It just smells to me like something someone just threw out there to help the cause and our malpractice press has never even asked a high school level follow-up question. Anyone here have an answer?

  9. If punishing men for rape is criminalizing male sexuality, then men should not be allowed in public without a minder. Taranto seems to be saying that men are unable to control their sexual urges and as a result women who are raped should just get over it. If Taranto is right men should not be allowed to serve in the military or any other capacity were they might come in contact with the public. Of course the entire interview was insane but if that is the gist of the argument against prosecuting rapists in the military then the resolutions of this problem is obvious. Men should be excluded from military service. Of course, Taranto believes that It is women who should be excluded but he probably thinks women shouldn’t have the vote. I’d call him an cave man but that would be an insult to the cave man.

    On the issue allowing commanding officers to over turn jury verdicts, there may be instances wherein “clemency” is appropriate in certain exceptional cases but written opinions should be required explaining in detail the reasons for the decison and extensive oversight should be in place to guard against exactly the type of abuse reports have uncovered. It would be better to take these cases out of the jurisdiction of the commanders.

    It is time to treat rape as the serious crime it is. The excuse that the man cannot control himself is demeaning and dangerous.

  10. For one, I consider a superior officer taking sexual advantage of a female subordinate that is so drunk she could plausibly have passed out to be an assault. Heck, due to the relative ranks, I would consider it an assault if she was sober and consented out of fear of his retaliatory power on her career.

    I do consider it a primarily male act to do such things; that is just statistical fact, but so are bar fighting and spousal abuse and murder by physical assault primarily male acts. To me, that does not make them less of a crime.

    The war is on crime, It is not a “war on men” just because men are almost always the perpetrators of this particular crime.

  11. Nick S: At least in the Military academies, the female victims outnumber the male victims 12 to 1, and the gender of the assailant is 35 to 1 male vs female.

    In formal complaints females are the overwhelming targets, males are the overwhelming assailants.

  12. I find that the figure of 26,000 service members being victims of sexual assault this past year appalling.

    One is more likely to be raped by “friendly-rape” than being raped by an enemy of the mythical al-Qaeda.

    Military members also kill more of themselves than enemies do.

    They are all out fighting things that kill us.

    And in so doing, they rifle through all our papers.

    Wish they would focus on lightning for awhile, it kills more of us than terrorists do.

  13. Nick S: According to the US Army annual report; 89% of victims are female; 97% of subjects accused of sexual assault are male.

  14. Tony C. 1, June 22, 2013 at 9:39 am

    Nick S: According to the US Army annual report; 89% of victims are female; 97% of subjects accused of sexual assault are male.
    ==============================
    Facts?

    We don’t need no stinkin’ facts.

    We got our bias to supply us with solid beliefs.

  15. “It is time to treat rape as the serious crime it is. The excuse that the man cannot control himself is demeaning and dangerous.”

    Justice Holmes,

    Yes this is usually the essence of any argument that condones rape. There is an old school of thought that through the ages has excused males their sexual violence towards women as a sad accoutrement of male sexuality. Men and teenage boys can and do control themselves in the main. The belief that they physically cannot control themselves is a version of the old, false tale of justification known as “The Devil Made Me Do It”, which to my way of thinking is always nonsense.

    “I keep hearing that ~half of the victims are male. Are they mostly female officers pulling rank..as it were, is it homosexual, or is it horseshit just thrown out there to try and make men care more about this.”

    Nick,

    That is a good question. Like Tony C., my presumption is that the victims are overwhelmingly female and frankly statistics are always capable of manipulation by their compiler. I used the figure of 26,000 violations last year, but I don’t even know for sure how accurate that might be. From my perspective if it were merely 1,000 per year that would be too high. The problems I have with this occurring in the military is the many documented cases of women being further victimized and demeaned when they try to report the incident up the chain of command. That problem’s complement is the perpetrators not receiving just punishment. Mr. Auster’s attitude makes it a trifecta of problems and is probably the root cause. In the psyche of many males sexual abuse of women is a matter of “boys will be boys”. I find that not only repellant, but essentially a license to commit violence.

  16. For the protection of all parties involved, a signed and witnessed Sexual Authorization Form should be utilized before each sexual act. The parties involved in the sexual act would swear that any act described therein is consensual and entirely voluntary. At least two witnesses should be present, during the signing, to attest that the agreement was in fact signed by the parties thereto and that there was no coercion involved, with nobody under duress or intoxicated.

    In the absence of a signed and witnessed Sexual Authorization Form, any sexual contact should be deemed a sexual assault or rape and the man should be automatically deemed guilty upon any accusation by a female, regardless of whatever evidence there may be. Now, what could be more fair than that?

  17. “In the absence of a signed and witnessed Sexual Authorization Form, any sexual contact should be deemed a sexual assault or rape and the man should be automatically deemed guilty upon any accusation by a female, regardless of whatever evidence there may be. Now, what could be more fair than that?”

    Tom Blanton,

    Underneath the obvious irony, do you believe there is a “War on Men?”

  18. Govt statistics show that more than 40% of all domestic violence is woman upon man.
    Same statistics show women are more likely to abuse their children then men, and are more likely to kill their children then men.
    More men are raped than women per annum.

    Radical feminism has skewed the public perception of who abuses who in the gender wars.
    And very often, what women cannot do to men directly, they will do through false allegations, and get the govt to do it for them.

    You should all see Ms. Straughan’s overview on radical feminism, presented this April 2013:

  19. Your Senator Gillenbrand sticks by the “half of victims are male.” Now, assuming that’s true, maybe it doesn’t comport w/ gays being in the military is a good thing. Before you or anyone jumps on me, I SUPPORT open gayness in the military. But, unwanted gay advances almost certainly has to be the reason for so many male victims. And, that opens up a can of worms for those who would like to go back to no gays in the military days. You know, the “See what happens” horseshit. It’s an interesting dilemma. But, chances are pc will play too important a role instead of direct and honest questions about why this is happening, and how to deal w/ it, w/o going back to the bad old days.

  20. Of course a college professor knows the US Army is only one branch of the military. As stated previously, Senator Gillenbrand from NY, who has taken the lead on this, has facts stating ~half of the victims are male. Maybe they’re horseshit facts, but I have seen no refutation to date.

  21. Mike Spindell 1, June 22, 2013 at 9:57 am


    In the psyche of many males sexual abuse of women is a matter of “boys will be boys”. I find that not only repellant, but essentially a license to commit violence.
    ===============================
    It is one of the most fundamental of social tenets:

    “Bullying is a form of aggressive behavior manifested by the use of force or coercion to affect others, particularly when the behavior is habitual and involves an imbalance of power.”

    (Bully Worship: The Universal Religion – 4). Our culture is a bully culture, and it should be no surprise that microcosms develop within that macrocosm.

  22. People talk about war on men with sex. Why isn’t there an outcry with war so easily engage in that ends in death or maiming of the body? Why isn’t their an outcry about all of the military bases in the first place with stock pills of weapons?

  23. nick spinelli 1, June 22, 2013 at 10:28 am

    Of course a college professor knows the US Army is only one branch of the military. As stated previously, Senator Gillenbrand from NY, who has taken the lead on this, has facts stating ~half of the victims are male. Maybe they’re horseshit facts, but I have seen no refutation to date.
    ==================================
    The statistics apply to the entire military, from Coast Guard to Air Force.

    It is systemic:

    Never mind that 18 of the military / veterans per day commit suicide, totalling 6,570 per year, which amounts to more in one year than all enemies have killed in all the wars over the past decade of war fever.

    Never mind that the DoD admits that 19,000 rapes of women soldiers take place each year, a figure disputed by watch-dog organizations that say the number is far greater.

    Never mind that only about 200 per year of those 19,000 rapists are prosecuted.

    Never mind that when prosecuted those rapists are given misdemeanor, not felony punishments, which are little more than a slap on the wrist.

    Never mind that the military does not produce anything useful to society, because their business is destruction not production, as has been seen in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, and Vietnam.

    Never mind that the military has a hair trigger nuclear system that is prone to error and accidental launch scenarios that would make the human species extinct.

    Never mind that this pathological behavior is all learned behavior, now being taught as an art in The War College.

    I dare say that the U.S. population would not have that opinion of a corporation which had the same statistics of torture, war crimes, suicide, and rape.

    (Bully Worship: The Universal Religion – 2). That quote is several years old, so Mike S’ figures in this post point out that they went up from 19,000 to 26,000 explains the variation in the numbers.

    One of the first things I noticed when I studied this data from the Joint Chiefs was that it is a systemic phenomenon.

    The NSA military outfit spying on Americans is another manifestation of the bully culture that is cultivated in the military more so than anywhere else.

  24. The connection between being 34 when you met your wife and your aversion to forcing yourself on women is a bit tenuous, but for some reason that resonated with me. I was fifty when I met my wife, and I shudder at least as much as you at the thought of forcefully… Well you know. I grew up in an age and a culture that resembled “chivalry” where women were to be treasured and protected.

    They were, however, supposed to be gently and graciously seduced at every opportunity, so I cannot claim much in the way of purity.

  25. Aren’t people from the beginning of the fall of man glazing over all of the war people do to man? The military does not train people to be good to people That is for sure. The problem is the military. Sex happens. The human animal will have sex. Have an environment that demonizes it will have the urge grow untill whoever cannot contain. What do you expect? People talk about consent. What do people do in war ask whoever they are going to kill to sign form agreeing to allow a person to kill them? The army is very hypocritical wouldn’t you say staring at a Gnat swallowing the proverbial camel?

  26. Aren’t people from the beginning of the fall of man glazing over all of the war people do to man? The military does not train people to be good to people. That is for sure. The problem is the military. Sex happens. The human animal will have sex. Have an environment that demonizes it will have the urge grow untill whoever cannot contain. What do you expect? People talk about consent. What do people do in war ask whoever they are going to kill to sign form agreeing to allow a person to kill them? The army is very hypocritical wouldn’t you say staring at a Gnat swallowing the proverbial camel?

  27. Again, totally missing the point that “sexual assault” isn’t sex. It’s assault via sexual acts. Now I know you’d like for consent not to be at issue because doing away with the consent requirement would also undermine the legal arguments against bestiality, but humans are not that kind of animal. When sex is forced on another human without consent, most societies consider that a crime, Artie. Because it hurts people physically and emotionally.

  28. Nick,

    I replied to your assertion that only one branch of the military suffers this anomaly.

    Your Big Brother is holding back my comment at this time. Let’s be patient. Biggie reads very slowly moving the lips to and fro in the process.

  29. Nick: Of course a college professor knows the US Army is only one branch of the military.

    And of course a mentally competent human would not assume any other branch of the military is going to present a significantly different ratio of victim gender when compared to the Army. There may be less opportunity to commit, but the stats in the Army (which match common sense) are proof enough that the gender correlation is going to be extremely high in virtually any venue.

  30. Lt. General David Morisson with the Australian military gave a speech only a couple of weeks ago, addressing the issue. It is the best one I’ve heard from a military leader and I wish that the American military had a male leader who can speak as frankly as he did. I don’t know if the professor has posted it on here before but I recommend everyone here to google it and to listen to it. I don’t know how to add a link on here, so I’ll have to recommend googling it. Perhaps one of you can put the link on this blog?
    I much agree with Nick Spindell that the ‘war on men’ is a phony one. It smacks of a similarly invented ‘war on Christianity in the US’ masterfully crafted and delivered on an almost daily basis on Fox News.
    The saying that ‘men will be men’, which is what some of the people like Mr. Taranto, are basically saying, is, no matter how one phrases it, a huge insult to the vast majority of men who would never, ever, take advantage of a woman whether she is drunk/drugged or not. The men who have sex with a man or woman without their full consent (not influenced by drugs) should, as Lt. General Davis Morisson says just get out of the military. I feel the same if you replace the word ‘men’ to ‘women’. It is a crime!
    Feminism has nothing to do with this. Gary T uses the phrase ‘radical feminism’ but fails to define what he means by that. What he considers ‘radical feminism’ may be considered ‘normal’ female demands by many people in the world. Rush Limbaugh, as many of you know, calls women whom he doesn’t like ‘feminazis’ and he calls women who believe that their healthcare should help cover expenses for birth control ‘sluts’. Is that where Gary T gets his views from? From my own experiences I can tell that I am called a feminist derogatorily by a man only when I happen to disagree with that man’s views on the rights of women. Case in point, my father spat in my face only a few years ago because I travel alone sometimes (work/visiting family and friends). He believes that I am a bad woman and that my husband deserves a woman who stays home, takes care of him, my daughter and the house. His wife, my stepmother, was proud of him for ‘putting me in place, once and for all’.
    As a woman and as a woman’s rights activist I refuse to let some examples, as referenced by Gary T, above get in the way of the fact that, world-wide, violence against women remains a huge stain on humanity. Gary T brings up that 40% of all domestic violence is woman upon man’ without any proof whatsoever. I call that ‘lame’.
    Thank you Mr. Spinelli for bringing up this issue and for standing up for the many other decent men who feel similarly. And to those women who have accused men of violence against them untruthfully, shame, big shame on you for you not only wreaked havoc to that man’s life but also to his family, your family and to the many women who are hurting and looking for justice!

  31. Els DL 1, June 22, 2013 at 11:36 am

    I much agree with Nick Spindell that the ‘war on men’ is a phony one
    ===================================
    Yeah, that Nick Spindell and his brother Gene Spindell are quite an agreeable bunch. ;)

  32. “Your Senator Gillenbrand sticks by the “half of victims are male.” Now, assuming that’s true, maybe it doesn’t comport w/ gays being in the military is a good thing.”

    Nick,

    She is not my Senator and I am not a NY resident. In any event the real percentage is from my perspective irrelevant. The two points I was making were that there is not a “War on Men” and that forcing sexual contact upon anyone is a repellant and violent act. By violent I include an unwanted touching, which if I remember correctly from my law school days was considered battery.

    “The connection between being 34 when you met your wife and your aversion to forcing yourself on women is a bit tenuous, but for some reason that resonated with me.”

    Bill H,

    It was 36 and the point I was trying to make delicately was that by then I had a lot of sexual experiences. :)

    “They were, however, supposed to be gently and graciously seduced at every opportunity, so I cannot claim much in the way of purity.”

    I believe that my own “success” with women came about because I always considered their wanting to have sex with me as a gift of intimacy that was to be accepted with gratitude. We live in a commercialized/com-modified country that measures sexual pleasure in terms of the orgasm, rather than the entire wonderful experience of sharing deep intimacy with someone else. It is therefore easy to see why some men skip all of the beautiful steps of foreplay to make sex into insertion and orgasm. With that kind of mentality for some then rape becomes a triumph.

  33. Actually the spam filter had you, Dredd. You caught in a spam filter. Imagine that.

    But thanks for your false allegations.

    I approved your spam, er, comment for you.

  34. nick spinelli 1, June 22, 2013 at 11:53 am

    Dredd, Don’t be such a cynic, We both love baseball. That’s quite significant.
    ================================
    There are several cults of cynics:

    2.
    ( initial capital letter ) one of a sect of Greek philosophers, 4th century b.c., who advocated the doctrines that virtue is the only good, that the essence of virtue is self-control, and that surrender to any external influence is beneath human dignity.

    (Grandpa’s Dictionary).

    Baseball?

    That is what base commanders call rape.

  35. An exceptional nation would look like a foolish nation to people that die but wise in the eyes of God. What do you think would be different to make people think USA is foolishness but be wise in the eyes of God?

  36. GaryT: “More men are raped than women per annum.”
    *
    A bridge too far Gary, a bridge too far.
    _____________

    “KISSEL: I see. But your op-ed in the paper today says that she’s somehow a victim in a war on men? How is that?

    TARANTO: That’s right. Well, this goes back to the effort to combat, the political campaign against sexual assault in the military. And this seems to be turning into an effort to criminalize male sexuality, much as we see with sexual conduct codes on campus. ”
    *
    Right, men can’t control themselves. I agree, it’s just how they’re made. Really, we can’t hold them to any standard of self-discipline when it comes to sex. Obviously they must be held blameless for their sexual behaviour due to this biological flaw. Women on the other hand, being a less biologicly damaged sex must then be held to a higher standard, they must be responsible for their own as well as male sexuality.

    They should not talk to males that are not family or even look at them. They should remain in their home and not mingle in public places. They should be escorted by a male family member whenever they must go out. They should cover themselves head to foot so that sight of them doesn’t inflame male passions.

    Gosh, a country that could persuade it’s women to buy into that kind of philosophy, or impose it, would be truly enlightened. If only there were places in the world that would adopt these kinds of policies to protect its men, they would be a paradise on Earth for men, AND women. Yea, that’s the ticket.

  37. artiewhitefaux 1, June 22, 2013 at 11:59 am

    An exceptional nation would look like a foolish nation to people that die but wise in the eyes of God. What do you think would be different to make people think USA is foolishness but be wise in the eyes of God?
    =================================
    You are preaching to the liar.

  38. Folks seem to be missing my point. The US Senator leading this much needed investigation is asserting that half of the sexual assault victims in the military[Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force and Coast Guard] are MALE. I have not found via a cursory search[I’m not that interested] from where those stats a derived. It’s certainly an interesting “fact.” Is it true? If so, what is the ratio of women harassing men, men harassing men, men harassing women and women harassing women. These are facts that would be interesting to know. As stated previously, I’m not so interested as to research this but any meaningful discussion should have these questions answered. Any volunteers? This doesn’t need to get testy. I’m currently sedated so I’m virtually incapable of being testy. If nothing else, doesn’t the assertion that half the victims are men seem counterintuitive?

  39. LK,

    You left out “women should be available mail order and over the internet, preferably with free shipping”.

  40. nick spinelli: “Your Senator Gillenbrand sticks by the “half of victims are male.” Now, assuming that’s true, maybe it doesn’t comport w/ gays being in the military is a good thing. Before you or anyone jumps on me, I SUPPORT open gayness in the military. But, unwanted gay advances almost certainly has to be the reason for so many male victims. …. But, chances are pc will play too important a role instead of direct and honest questions about why this is happening, and how to deal w/ it, w/o going back to the bad old days. [of closeted gays in the military]”

    *

    Sooooo, A heretofore secret class of closeted homo soldiers in all branches of the military went around raping male soldiers at truly stunning numbers of incidents and that never became public and now some liberals (because “PC” is associated with the left) will gloss over that so that these marauding gay rapers won’t give gays in the military a bad reputation historically OR that it can be addressed going forward OR to prevent open gayness in the military can again suppressed?

    This thread is making my head hurt. And my soul wither.

  41. Els DL:

    Hey, I called myself a feminist not long ago too. I totally believe in equal rights for men and women. And the operative word there is “EQUAL”.

    That unfortunately is not the experience of men in the legal world, particularly in Family Court law and domestic violence law.

    After having been put through the mill in these courts in the most obviously gender discriminatory ways (they don’t even see it because it’s just the way they do things), I have to withdraw my membership from being a feminist, because what a feminist is is no longer a campaign for equal rights, but rather superior rights for women.

    And that is only my experience in a small part of our legal machine, it goes on and on in every other part of our society.

    I do not like Rush Limbaugh, and I would bet you that we both agree with the ideals of feminism. The problem is radical feminism is now taken for idealistic feminism, and that being the meaning of the word now, I could not agree with.

    Watch the video I posted to see what I mean by radical feminism.

  42. lottkatz, That was your deduction, not mine? For the last time, I don’t know if these “facts” are true. But, if they are, I don’t know the breakdown of whom assaulted whom, and what that means. Don’t kill the messenger just for asking basic questions.

  43. Ever notice how every tv show the husband is always some idiot and the wife is the smart one? Hell yeah there is a war on men

    Btw women should not be in the military. Instead of bringing more peace it will bring more war and not because they are more for war but because it will become more acceptable to kill ANYONE

  44. nick spinelli 1, June 22, 2013 at 12:47 pm

    … I don’t know if these “facts” are true. …
    =========================
    They are false.

    The research by the Joint Chiefs would have loved that fantasy, but alas, the data paints only one picture:

    “Some evidence suggests that rape, sexual assault and sexual harassment survivors who have been treated in military medical settings experience a ‘second victimization’ while under care, often reporting increased rates of depression and PTSD … MST [military sexual trauma] is the leading cause of PTSD among women veterans, while combat trauma is the leading cause of PTSD among men.”

    (Rape in the Military a Culture of Coverup). What is called “the war on men” is the reporting of rapes, not the acts of rape.

  45. Nick,

    There are supporting data for men being raped about as much as women, however these are based upon “the ones that are not reported” … so in either case there is room for argument either way:

    The Pentagon estimates that last year 13,900 of the 1.2 million men on active duty endured sexual assault while 12,100 of the 203,000 women in uniform experienced the same crime — or 38 men per day versus 33 women per day. Yet the Defense Department also acknowledges “male survivors report at much lower rates than female survivors.”

    (NBC). This leads to the percentages of men who are raped (1.2 million men / 13,900 raped = 1%) (203,000 women / 12,100 raped = 6%).

    So, your point to the extent it says both are raped and both are injured and suffer for the rest of their lives in some degree is a good point.

  46. nick spinelli: “lottkatz, That was your deduction, not mine?”
    *

    Nick, as anyone that has visited this blawg for any time knows I don’t do math beyond the most basic level. But I do do grammar and sentence construction and I do know what your words said and by the construction of your paragraphs, what the clear implication was “Assuming it was true”. It was your deduction based on the assumption it was true. I just restated it without actually losing any of the meaning. You brought up ‘teh gay’ with “unwanted gay advances almost certainly has to be the reason for so many male victims” and went from there.

    Even as I admit math is beyond me I do understand the nature of 2+2 in its most simple aspect. LOL, that was some powerfully weird s*it you wrote Nick.

  47. A Russian publication says:

    Half of all the rapes in the US military are done to men. There are in fact more men raped in the armed forces than in federal prisons. At the commencement address at the US Naval Academy in Annapolis President Barack Obama on Friday specifically addressed the issue of sexual assault in the military. He went on to say that this conduct is unacceptable and there would be consequences for these actions.

    (More men raped in US military than in prisons, The Voice of Russia). The fog of rape within the fog of war.

  48. lottakatz 1, June 22, 2013 at 1:52 pm

    Dredd, buddy, thank you for doing math. Srsly. :-)
    ======================================
    You are welcome!

  49. If I did something offensive or bad, I apologize. I was and am just trying to understand something that seems counterintuitive to me. and something that just smells fishy. Whatever my offense, I do not need representation, I plead guilty and await sentencing. Hopefully it doesn’t include incarceration.

  50. Nick: the problem is the nature of the reporting; what NBC reports is based on an anonymous survey (by the military) of men and women in the military. it is NOT based upon actual charges brought. Of the men that reported “sexual harassment,” the vast majority checked the box on “inappropriate touching.”

    A far lower number of men than women in the survey checked off forced intercourse (which included oral and anal intercourse).

    Of actual disciplinary hearings and actions in the military, victims are 90% female and 10% male, and assailants are 97% male and 3% female.

  51. nick spinelli 1, June 22, 2013 at 3:04 pm

    If I did something offensive or bad, I apologize. I was and am just trying to understand something that seems counterintuitive to me. and something that just smells fishy. Whatever my offense, I do not need representation, I plead guilty and await sentencing. Hopefully it doesn’t include incarceration.
    =======================
    Nope.

    No incineration.

    In the civilian population (“those who derive all their rights from soldiers” – OScrew) these are the rape statistics:

    Nearly 90,000 people reported being raped in the United States in 2008. There is an arrest rate of 25%. The U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics states that 91% of rape victims are female and 9% are male, and 99% of rapists are male …

    (Wikipedia, Rape In US). The ratio is (320 million people, 90,000 rapes = 2/10ths of 1%). The soldiers rape more than the civilian population (except some of those non-military rapes may be done by ex-right makers?).

    Anyway, Nick skates.

  52. Nick,

    If you want more info…. I belong to military.com….. You can usually stay abreast of all the happenings….

  53. Nick: ” If I did something offensive or bad ….”

    what you did offensive and bad was announce on this thread and others that you were under the influence of pharmaceuticals and not offer to share. In some circles you would be persona non grata for that kind of behaviour. I’m still considering being insulted by it.

  54. Personally, I’m waiting for the War on The War On.

    It imposes a military mindset to problems that are not always solvable by a military mentality.

    And yes, I do realize the apparent circularity of that statement, but I’ve never let that stand in the way of a good joke coupled with a valid observation.

  55. lotta, These pharmas are strictly for medicinal purposes. However, I need both ice and the vicodin to keep the pain controlled But, I’m trying to watch the Brewer’s game and I feel like I’m back in the 60’s fading in and out. I just drank a cup of coffee which I never do after 10am. But, we’re supposed to meet some friends for dinner and I don’t want to pass out in the soup and drown!

  56. “If I did something offensive or bad, I apologize. I was and am just trying to understand something that seems counterintuitive to me. and something that just smells fishy.”

    Nick,

    I respect your intelligence too much to think that this is anything but half assed sincerity. You know quite well what your motives were and it’s sad you can’t even accept responsibility for them. Then I guess your excuse is the vicodin made me do it.

  57. Great story Mike. This Taranto character needs to open his eyes to the sexual assaults that are far too commonplace in the military. To try to turn this into a war on men reminds me of Bill O’s war on Christmas. Just insane.

  58. lotta, Thanks. I had this cyst removed twice by GP’s years back. My current GP said go to UW and have a surgeon do it. They had to cut through scar tissue and dig deep. It’ll be fine soon.

  59. Mikey, You’re really gunning for me today, maybe because you know I’m sedated. You accuse me of kissing ass on the water thread, being half assed insincere here. I’d say up the Prozac and get some exercise. You’re more negative than usual today. I’m going out to dinner w/ some friends. Got any?

  60. Being checked by a UCS chiropractor on a list on upcspine or finding one by putting your zip code in on the web page, upper cervical heath centers, will help in not having to use pharmaceuticals in the first place.

  61. Nick,

    I defended you because of the circumstances in which you were placed in moderation…. Don’t mess with folks and you won’t have any issues….

  62. Tom B, and I’d add a sort of “Shmiranda Warning” to the woman:

    “You have the right to decline to have sex with this male.

    If you do not decline, anything you say or do can be used against you.

    If you become pregnant you may be forced to gestate to term.

    You may be ordered to live within a certain designated area so that your foetus can be identified and turned over to any man you have had sex with after you give birth.

    You may be prevented from eating, drinking or otherwise ingesting anything you may choose to eat, drink or ingest.

    You may become a defendant in a lawsuit that has no end because if you should win there can be a change of circumstances pled and you may be forced back to court.

    Your property and income may be taken without due process.

    You may be accused of crimes amounting to your not performing acts you may be required to perform although for other individuals, failure to perform such acts are not defined in the criminal code …

    You may … [By this time the urge has vanished]

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