Not The Onion, Part The Infinity

-Submitted by David Drumm (Nal), Guest Blogger

Thighmaster General
Thighmaster General

Without a hint of satire, The Wall Street Journal decided to let Suzanne Somers write an article on the Affordable Care Act on their blog “The Experts.” Somers “expertise” comes from her celebrity access to doctors, scientists, and medical professionals in the “alternative and integrative” health-care world. Somers has been on Oprah pushing her concept of wellness which involves taking 60 pills a day and injecting hormones into her vagina.

The CAM (Complementary and Alternative Medicine) health-care world is waging an all out attack against science-based medicine and health care. As Dr. Steven Novella puts it:

The later terms, “complementary” and “integrative,” are deceptions meant to distract from the fact the CAM (as much as general statements can be made about such a loose category) is anti-science, and therefore cannot be integrated into science.

Somers claims that affordable health care is socialized medicine. Princeton University economist Uwe E. Reinhardt notes: “Socialized medicine refers to systems that couple social health insurance with government-owned and operated health care facilities.” Reinhardt uses the Veterans Affairs health system as an example of socialized medicine. When health insurance is coupled with purely private health care delivery systems, it is understood as “social health insurance,” for example in Canada.

Somers provides anecdotal evidence of a long wait time to see a doctor for her sister-in-law. Somers does not mention the wait times for 48 million Americans who can’t go to a doctor at all because they don’t have insurance.

Somers talks about her Canadian cousins who, after becoming doctors, came the U.S. to “reap financial rewards.” Somers doesn’t mention that Canada spends 11.4% of it GDP on health expenditures while the U.S. spends 17.4%.

Somers notes that it’s good that affordable care will cover pre-existing conditions. Everybody loves the coverage of pre-existing conditions. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to understand that the extra cost of that coverage isn’t going to be borne by the insurance companies.

Somers mentions that the news she listens to is all about the increases in insurance premiums. Had Somers examined the stories more closely, she would have found out that most just don’t hold water. Some people have such pitiful, and cheap, insurance policies that they don’t meet the ACA’s guidelines. Insurance companies have no incentive to get the customer the cheapest policy that meets those guidelines. It’s like a car salesman telling a customer their 2010 Toyota Camry needs to be replaced and sending them a bill for a 2013 Toyota Avalon when a 2013 Camry will meet their needs.

Somers is just another woo peddler whose celebrity has faded.

H/T: Daniel D’Addario, John Casey, Sarah Kliff, Steve M., Jerry Coyne.

106 thoughts on “Not The Onion, Part The Infinity

  1. David,

    Thank you for the sense of restrained rage that runs through this piece. This failed, pretend actress has maintained her celebrity status by pushing a dubious product known as the Thighmaster. Yet the supposedly serious Wall Street Journal, which has become part of the Faux News Empire of the Master of Corporatist Propaganda Ruppert Murdoch, has chosen to let this supremely unqualified person write a column on a serious issue. Her “thought” will no doubt be a topic of discussion amongst Tea Baggers who presume themselves informed by reading such drivel. Murdoch is, like the Koch Brothers/Donald Trump another “self made” millionaire by virtue of descending his mother’s womb

  2. nick spinelli 1, November 2, 2013 at 9:59 am

    Kinda like having Al Sharpton and Alec Baldwin on MSNBC.
    ===========================
    I watched Alec Baldwin last night.

    Two of his guests starred in the S. Kubric movie “2001 A Space Odyssey.”

    The three of them had an incredible discussion about the professional habits and practices of Stanley Kubric and Otto Preminger.

    And about the ground breaking movie itself.

    It was quite interesting and informative.

    I doubt Somers would have aided the conversation very much.

  3. Dredd, I love Alec Baldwin as an actor. He is all veneer and little substance just like Sharpton. Neither are deserving of a “news channel” forum. Ollie North doesn’t either.

  4. If you are in the “upper fifth”, as the British characterize the top 20% of intelligence, then please appreciate that the lower 80 love the crap that air heads spew. There is no understanding by the masses, hence idiocy will prevail. It seems to me, unfortunately, that “winning” in the Charlie Sheen sense is understandable by many, while a mystery to me.
    Addressing her points is like pissing in the wind.

  5. Problem is too many people give her and other ‘celebrities” like Jenny McCarthy the aura of profundity respect, and presumed knowledge which is why whoopinig cough for instance has come back as a result of those who believe the garbage McCarthy spews as real science

  6. Dredd,

    I caught Baldwin’s first show, but sadly didn’t tape last night’s show. some people don’t get that it’s not a political show and that it provides some of the most intelligent discussion on TV.

  7. neighbordave:

    many believe what she is saying is true, many doctors, and many people I know who are probably in the top 2% of intelligence.

    So what you are saying is I dont have an inkling as to how to respond so I must be in the 80%?

  8. neighbordave:

    the I is you in the last sentence.

    So what you are saying is “I dont have an inkling as to how to respond so I must be in the 80%”?

  9. “Somers does not mention the wait times for 48 million Americans who can’t go to a doctor at all because they don’t have insurance.”

    Excuse me, but I am one of those 48 million Americans without insurance, and so are the other 6 people in my family, and the truth is that I can go to the doctor anytime I want. If Americans spend more on health care than Canada, good. They should be able to pay more for good health care. That is why so many Canadians come across the border for health care. The truth is that ACA has ruined one of the best health care systems in the world. You can quote all the statistics you want and twist them to fit your story, but that is the truth. In a decade, if government survives that long without revolution, we will see that is the truth.

  10. davidm2575,
    The problem with your statement above is that we do not get better health care in this country even though we pay more for it. It is easy to pay for health care if you have the means to self insure, but the vast, vast majority of us do not have the luxury. Your wild claim that the ACA which is in its infancy has already ruined what you claim is one of the best health care systems in the world is not supported by any evidence. The only revolution going on here is the wealthy trying to get it all with no regard for the 98-99% of the country that need access to affordable health care. Please show your “truth” that the ACA has ruined “one of the best health care systems in the world”. Show us the evidence.

  11. We get less bang for the buck. We spend more on cosmetic treatments, like breast implants. If you live in Canada and you want hormone injections in the hoohah, you cross the border to the U.S., where patients don’t have to wait as long for elective treatment. Otherwise, you stay in Canada, where health care costs are less and wait times for critical care are faster.

  12. davidm,

    You are fortunate. Many doctors won’t see people who are not their patients–and many specialists often require a referral from a primary care physician before setting up an appointment with someone.

  13. “Excuse me, but I am one of those 48 million Americans without insurance,”

    DavidM,

    If this is the case you are either a very rich, or very foolish person.

  14. rafflaw wrote: “Please show your “truth” that the ACA has ruined “one of the best health care systems in the world”. Show us the evidence.”

    How about we start with the article by Suzanne Somers. Do her anecdotes carry any weight at all with you?

    “… young Canadian medical students have no incentive to become doctors to humans because they can’t make any money. Instead, there is a great surge of Canadian students becoming veterinarians. That’s where the money is.”

    “My sister-in-law had to wait two months to get a General Practitioner. During this period she spent her days in bed vomiting continuously, unable to get any food or drink down because she couldn’t get an appointment with the doctor. When she finally did, the doctor said, “Oh you don’t need me, you need a specialist.” That took another two weeks until she got a pill that corrected the problem.”

    “All of my husband’s cousins are doctors. Several have moved to the U.S. because after their years of intensive schooling, they want to reap financial rewards. My 75-year-old Canadian girlfriend was denied treatment because she was too old. She died recently, having been given palliative care. That’s all the system would allow.”

    “… most I speak with think the Affordable Care Act is a greater Ponzi scheme than that pulled off by Bernie Madoff.”

  15. David,
    Suzane Somers is your evidence that the ACA has destroyed our great health care system? First of all, her anecdotes have no documentation. Second, did these anecdotes only happen since the ACA was only partially implemented? Where is her expertise that would add credence to her unsubstantiated anecdotal evidence?
    Do you know what a Ponzi scheme is? How is bringing 30-40 Million Americans to corporate medical insurers a Ponzi scheme???

  16. ** Her “thought” will no doubt be a topic of discussion amongst Tea Baggers who presume themselves informed by reading such drivel. Murdoch is, like the Koch Brothers/Donald Trump another “self made” millionaire by virtue of descending his mother’s womb **

    MikeS,

    It tough for some of us politically as we can not support commie lunatics like Obama n friends nor can we support the nazis on the other end of the political spectrum.

    **Byrne’s rival is Dean Young, a self-described tea party conservative best known as a onetime campaign adviser to Roy Moore, the judge who was once ousted as state Supreme Court chief justice after refusing to remove a Ten Commandments monument from the lobby of the Alabama Judicial Building. **

    http://www.krmg.com/ap/ap/legislative/gop-internal-divide-plays-out-in-alabama-campaign/nbf2h/

  17. Elaine M wrote: “You are fortunate. Many doctors won’t see people who are not their patients–and many specialists often require a referral from a primary care physician before setting up an appointment with someone.”

    You don’t have to be on an insurance policy to establish a doctor-patient relationship, nor to obtain a referral to a specialist. I have never had a problem doing any of this, even when one of my daughters broke her arm in gymnastics class. My biggest problem is the government run school system which requires insurance for almost everything, especially field trips and athletic programs my children want to participate in. Fortunately, I was able to buy school related insurance, which cost only $15 for the entire school year. How much do you want to bet that option will be lost thanks to the Affordable Care Act?

  18. DavidM wrote: “Excuse me, but I am one of those 48 million Americans without insurance,”

    Mike Spindell wrote:
    “If this is the case you are either a very rich, or very foolish person.”

    I am not rich, so I guess I am as foolish as a man in a Las Vegas Casino who chooses not to bet.

  19. davidm wrote: “My biggest problem is the government run school system which requires insurance for almost everything, especially field trips and athletic programs my children want to participate in. ”

    *****

    Can you provide information regarding this. I have never heard of public schools requiring students to get field trip insurance or athletic insurance. Parents are required to sign permission slips/forms–but not required to purchase special insurance for such things. Is this different where you live?

  20. davidm,

    “Fortunately, I was able to buy school related insurance, which cost only $15 for the entire school year. How much do you want to bet that option will be lost thanks to the Affordable Care Act?’

    I thought you said that no one in your family was insured.

  21. I know many high schools require proof of insurance prior to a student being able to play interscholastic sports. Actually, many colleges and universities are requiring insurance simply to be a student.

  22. **davidm2575 1, November 2, 2013 at 2:01 pm

    I am not rich, so I guess I am as foolish as a man in a Las Vegas Casino who chooses not to bet.
    **

    David,

    Many people operate under the delusion that “Insurance” reduces risk when in fact it does not reduce risk but instead massively increases risk.

    The undeniable evidence that “insurance increases risk” is the ongoing economic collapse that became public knowledge in late 2007-08 when the “OTC derivatives market” caused the collapse of Lehman brothers & it’s chain reaction of bring down all other Wallst/City of London Banks/Insurance firms.

    OTC Derivatives are basically Insurance Policies, that are complete Frauds, Ponzi Scams & they failed to preform when called upon to do so.

    All insurance policies, including Obamacare are Ponzi Scams.

    As proof of the Obamacare Ponzi Scam consider this, if everyone was covered under Obamacare & everyone became seriously ill at the same time there would not be, nor could there ever be enough cash reserves on the balance sheet to ever pay out all the claims against the policies.

    There are many other issues regarding the massive Fraud called the insurance industry beside the fact that it is a major cause of continued economic collapse because it removes needed capital from productive efforts to non-productive expenses.

    One issue is that govt mandated insurance violates my & many others religious “Rights”. For religious reasons I don’t believe in Gambling & Insurance Policies are in fact Gambling yet the govt. forces us to gamble against our will.

    The most troubling issue is that many people can only see most issues, like Healthcare in bio-polar terms in a multi-polar world, they wish, push for an either or solution when there are many other more viable solutions available to deal with complex issues.

  23. ** The CAM (Complementary and Alternative Medicine) health-care world is waging an all out attack against science-based medicine and health care. **

    David Drumm,

    Your story makes many claims of scientific evidence that one side’s opinions are good & valid & the other side’s opinions are not.

    Many see the Wallst Journal not as a journal but that it’s the Wallst Urinal.

    By innuendo you seem to make the claim Suzanne Somers has a vagina yet you offer no evidence of proof of the fact.

    Are we just to trust you & take your word as the truth?

  24. Elaine M wrote: “I thought you said that no one in your family was insured.”

    I forgot that school insurance which was required for her school sports. Sorry about that.

    She also competes in private gymnastics, so she had to sign up with a professional association for that, which includes insurance for accidents that happen in their practice gym and in competitions. That one was a bit more pricey, something like $175 a year. So I forgot about that too. Come to think of it, I am required to get insurance also for my automobiles, so both me and my passengers are covered by that insurance. Can’t seem to get away from insurance these days.

    When people talk about health insurance to visit the doctor, that is the health insurance product that I don’t have. Most likely I will be paying the fine next year, but I won’t determine that until after the healthcare.gov website starts working to see what it’s going to cost me. I do have half a mind not to pay the fine because the ACA law says they can’t put me in prison for it like other taxes, but then the SCOTUS called it a tax so maybe they can anyway? It is all so confusing.

    From what I understand, I can’t even challenge the mandate until after the fine or tax has been imposed upon me. I tried getting a waiver like all the Obama buddies did, but they said that I would have to call someone in another office and they never made a decision about it. Part of me wants to just write exempt on my tax return and see what happens, but I know my wife will not like that. I have already been talking to her about the ramifications of filing our tax returns separately to insulate her from my actions. I don’t care about the money, but the principle of the thing really bothers me.

  25. Oky1 wrote: “One issue is that govt mandated insurance violates my & many others religious “Rights”. For religious reasons I don’t believe in Gambling & Insurance Policies are in fact Gambling yet the govt. forces us to gamble against our will.”

    I understand EXACTLY what you are talking about here. I don’t find too many other people who understand this violation of conscience. The SCOTUS should have understood this, but they didn’t. It was like Dred Scott all over again.

  26. Oky1:

    next thing you know we will be arrested for eating a cheeseburger and you can forget adding bacon and french fries.

    Once they do health care, they can control every aspect of our lives in the name of health.

  27. I agree Bron,

    Obamacare wipes it’s stinking butt on the USC & it’s Bill of Rights & their intent, the” Preamble of the Bill of Rights” = To Prevent the Abuse of Government Authority.

    Obamacare is an Abuse of Government Authority.

    Violations IE: 1st amd, 2nd amd, 4th, 5th, 6th,… 9th, 10th,etc., General Welfare Clause, Commerce Clause…

    I consider Obamacare care as an illegal law, null n void, for one reason is it’s a matter of Public Record/Nancy Pelosi that the US Congress could not have passed Obamacare as none of them knew what they voted for/against.

  28. But all of us that oppose Obama’s/Bush’s Commie/Nazi type policies must surely be Racist as we are not smart enough to figure out another means of getting medical attention to all citizens that are in need of a doctor.

    (sarc off)

  29. “Would you like to supersize that” will soon be classified as hate speech. Although I must say, I HATE it when they try to upsell you in retail biz. That’s the cost of freedom.

  30. “Some people have such pitiful, and cheap, insurance policies that they don’t meet the ACA’s guidelines.”

    Doesn’t matter Nal, Obama told everyone specifically and plainly that “if you like your plan, you will keep your plan.” Doesn’t matter how “bad” or “under-insured” they were. If they LIKED their plan, they were promised they could KEEP it.

    Here is Obama on many occasioions telling everyone, “If you like your plans and doctors, you can keep them”. He even said it AFTER the bill became law!

    “It’s like a car salesman telling a customer their 2010 Toyota Camry needs to be replaced and sending them a bill for a 2013 Toyota Avalon when a 2013 Camry will meet their needs.”

    WTF?? Obama NEVER told anyone before OR after the bill was passed that ANYONE needed to replace their plans. They were told they could KEEP it. So, your analogy is based on a lie from the get-go.

    Here’s a more accurate analogy of what ACTUALLY happened:

    “It’s like a car salesman telling everyone they could keep their cars if they liked them, also telling them that they would never take anything away from them. Then, contrary to what they said, they went to that person’s individual house and told them they HAD to buy this new car, regardless if they needed it, wanted it or could afford it—-and also telling them they would be fined if they didnt buy it”

  31. Oky, The right leaning SCOTUS has deemed the ACA constitutional so you can scream all you want that it is not but I think the SCOTUS have a better grasp of the law then do you. (And I am not a fan of most of the SCOTUS)

  32. ” I closed page too fast so dont have the click, think washington post)
    Moreover, it’s certainly incorrect to claim, as some Republicans have, that people are losing insurance coverage. Instead, in virtually all cases, it’s being replaced with probably better (and possibly more expensive) insurance”

    The president said Wednesday that the notices sent to consumers suggest that they’re losing their coverage “somehow because of the Affordable Care Act.” He argued, however, that consumers only lost coverage if insurers altered those policies at all after the law took effect. In that case, Mr. Obama said, insurers had to “replace them with quality, comprehensive coverage.”

    “Today that promise means that every plan in the marketplace covers a core set of minimum requirements,” he said. Insurers “can’t use allergies or pregnancy… or the fact that you’re a woman to charge you more.”

    He advised the public, “If you’re getting one of these letters, just shop around in the new marketplace — that’s what it’s for.”
    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57610109/obama-stands-by-promise-that-you-can-keep-your-plan/

    Plans are changed all the time and you can lose them when they change unless you are able to stay on and be grandfathered (I am on such a plan and will be able to stay on it)

    (As for not having insurance and what happens if everyone gets sick all at the same time, the probablility of that is negligible unless it is say a terrorist attack with chemical weapons where it will ot matter if you have insurance or not.

    As for the gamble that insurance is, so too is it a gamble that you will not get an illness that will be exceedingly costly.
    I have trigeminal neuralgia. One second I was fine, all it took was a pain that lasted 20 seconds and I became disabled having ultimately 12 brain surgeries and tons of meds etc. (I always thank the healthy folk whose insurance premiums paid for my care. Now that I no longer get much treatment, primarily meds, my premiums are paid for the others who are sick and have BC/BS..
    Thank goodness for my insurance.
    David I sure hope you don’t get Tn, cancer, heart attack etc. If it is something that comes on quickly you will not be able to get insurance before you have to be in hospital etc. The good thing is under the ACA if you do develop say heart disease you cannot be denied because it is then a pre existing condition.

  33. leecaroll said:

    “Oky, The right leaning SCOTUS has deemed the ACA constitutional so you can scream all you want that it is not but I think the SCOTUS have a better grasp of the law then do you. (And I am not a fan of most of the SCOTUS)”

    WRONG. The SC NEVER ruled on the constitutionality of the law ITSELF. They only ruled on the Constitutionality of the INDIVIDUAL MANDATE of purchasing Obamacare. They could ONLY do it by their taxing powers—which is very scary. Now they can regulate any behavior they want us to do. They want us to buy a certain car? They can make us and just fine us if we dont.

    I’m sick and tired of people thinking the SC ruled on the law itself. They ruled on the mandate to BUY Obamacare.

  34. leecaroll—–you posted that big post AFTER I posted mine above with the video attached to it?? Im guessing you completely IGNORED the video of Obama repeatedly saying to all insured Americans “if you like your plan, you can keep it?”

    He can’t use as a defense “well, they had shitty insurance” because 1. He said anyone who liked their plan can KEEP it and 2. It’s the Obamacare law ITSELF that is the reason insurers are dropping people—because their plans dont meet ACA guidelines! So it’s HIS law that forced insurers to cancel the policies!!!

    You DEFEND Obama for lying AND for his OWN LAW being the reason people are losing their health care plans???? Are you high??

  35. In a 5-4 decision that was unusual because conservative Chief Justice John Roberts joined the court’s four liberals and became the deciding vote, the justices ruled that the so-called individual mandate is a tax that Congress can impose on Americans. That undercut the challenge to that provision’s constitutionality for allegedly violating the Commerce Clause.

    From there, upholding the mandate meant that the rest of the act was judged constitutional as well.
    http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/06/28/155901105/live-blog-the-health-care-ruling

    On the last day of the 2011-2012 Term, the United States Supreme Court issued its long-anticipated opinion about the Affordable Care Act (ACA). In a case known as National Federation of Independent Business v. Sebelius,1 the Court agreed to consider the constitutionality of two major provisions of the ACA: the individual mandate and the Medicaid expansion. A majority of the Court upheld the individual mandate. And, while the Court found the Medicaid expansion unconstitutionally coercive of states, because states did not have adequate notice to voluntarily consent and the Secretary could potentially withhold all of a state’s existing federal Medicaid funds for non-compliance, a majority of the Court found that this issue was appropriately remedied by circumscribing the Secretary’s enforcement authority, thus leaving the Medicaid expansion intact in the ACA. This policy brief describes the Court’s decision and looks ahead to the implementation of health reform now that the constitutionality of the ACA has been resolved.

    http://kaiserfamilyfoundation.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/8332.pdf

  36. Yeah, they ruled on the INDIVIDUAL MANDATE to PURCHASE Obamacare——-NOT on the law ITSELF. You said the ACA was constitutional because the SC ruled it was. You’re WRONG. They never ruled on the constitutionality of the law ITSELF. They ruled on PROVISIONS OF the law—–not the LAW ITSELF. What you just posted actually supports what I said—so thank you!

  37. He did say it, I never said he didn’t (and I won’t be nasty back). He is right. You will keep your plan He sould have added the fact that all plans will need to be in compliance and those with individual plans which is about 5% of the population the vast majority of whom will not lose their plans. (I am grandfathered because I paid for my plan before I was notified it was no longer offered (I have had this grandfathered plan for probably 15 years at this point) Those who did not have their premiums paid up before PlanH was no longer offered, by many, many companies, lost their plan and either went with another or lost their policy. It is the same now as it was then only now there is an across the board requirement which makes insurance coverage better for most people.

  38. leecaroll——youre WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG about everything you just said. He was WRONG about even the AMOUNT that will lose their plans. 5%???? Really?? You believe that figure because HE said it was only 5%??? He lied about people NOT losing their plans–why would you believe anything else he said?

    The FACT is, up to 67% will lose their plans. An IRS document that came out in 2010 stated this: (you can find it here)

    http://www.irs.gov/irb/2010-29_IRB/ar08.html

    “Using these turnover estimates, a reasonable range for the percentage of individual policies that would terminate, and therefore relinquish their grandfather status, is 40 percent to 67 percent. These estimates assume that the policies that terminate are replaced by new individual policies, and that these new policies are not, by definition, grandfathered. In addition, the coverage that some individuals maintain for long periods might lose its grandfather status because the cost-sharing parameters in policies change by more than the limits specified in these interim final regulations. The frequency of this outcome cannot be gauged due to lack of data, but as a result of it, the Departments estimate that the percentage of individual market policies losing grandfather status in a given year exceeds the 40 percent to 67 percent range that is estimated based on the fraction of individual policies that turn over from one year to the next.”

    It was even mentioned in the Federal Register in June of 2010. It said 93 million Americans will lose their health care plans.

    Here’s the story on that:

    http://news.yahoo.com/obama-officials-2010-93-million-033300620.html

    5% is only about 15 million Americans. 93 million Americans is over 30%—-NOT 5%.

    Learn FACTS before you speak.

  39. Plans in existence before March 23, 2010, are grandfathered, which makes them exempt from most of the new requirements of Obamacare. However, if your insurance company switched you into a “better” plan after that date, it’s not grandfathered and can be canceled at any time.

    So what did the insurance companies do? They swapped their plans around so fast and so often that virtually no one today has a plan more than a couple of years old. Clever scamps!

  40. Nal, where did that quote come from? Out of your head? I posted a link to an IRS document that says otherwise, and it was even in the June 2010 Federal Register that most plans will be canceled, and the administration KNEW this THREE YEARS AGO. And Obama STILL went out and told people “if you like your plan, you can keep it.”

  41. Boy you are one nasty fellow. It is usually those who are wrong who think by casting aspersions on the other person it makes their points. correct.
    Youre wrong. period.
    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/10/30/1251548/-About-That-Keep-Your-InsuranIf you need numbers, anywhere from 6.3 million to 11.9 million people will need to make a change, because what they have now no longer qualifies as insurance. Yes, the ACA forces people to change from junk insurance to something that offers real security.

    Up to 75%!

    That’s huge!

    Until you put it in the context that we live in a country of 317 million people

    75% of 5% is is 3.75%

    3.75% of 317 million is about 11.9 million people.

    NBC which has become a GOP mouthpiece uses the same numbers. Four sources deeply involved in the Affordable Care Act tell NBC News that 50 to 75 percent of the 14 million consumers who buy their insurance individually can expect to receive a “cancellation” letter or the equivalent over the next year because their existing policies don’t meet the standards mandated by the new health care law. One expert predicts that number could reach as high as 80 percent. Do the math. http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/29/21222195-obama-administration-knew-millions-could-not-keep-their-health-insurance#comments

  42. (Nal my plan is about 15 years old. I called Bc/BS to check and I can keep that plan, anecdotal – but I am sure I am not the only one, That being said as long as health care relies on the private marketplace they will always try to scalp us as much as possible

  43. I posted links to the IRS document that explains people will NOT be grandfathered in and that up to 67% will lose their plans. It really makes you look foolish when you criticize my posts and defending Obama by saying “not THAT many will lose their plans…just LOW numbers” when Obama HIMSELF said that NO ONE will lose their plans. He said it would be 0%—so any number you post above 0% makes you look like a colossal f***tard.

    NBC a mouthpiece for the GOP???? LOL. They’re about as liberal as you can get!

  44. LeeJ,

    Popcorn Sutton was PO’d at the govt because he wanted the right to brew whiskey without govt involvement.

    He had a tombstone made & sat at his front porch I assume so when the govt agents pulled up they’d get the msg, it said to the govt, Phk you.

    Currently the govt has a near monopoly of force. If they get pissed at any one or go out on a whim as they often do they’ll send swat teams to shoot puppies, rape kids, beat wives, old people, murder husbands and walk away with no punishment for the govt’s crimes.

    It remains this way only because enough people in the past have had “Confidence” in the system.

    That public “Confidence” has nearly collapsed at this time & even those on the inside of govt are starting in mass to resist this tyranny of evil.

    In other words we are now at the beginning of the end.

    It’s a very dangerous time in history.

    **

    1970-1973: “Sir, My Men Refuse To Fight!”

    Opposition to the war turns militant and the counter-culture rises to its peak:[16] 92,000 soldiers were declared deserters, with tens of thousand fleeing to Canada, France and Sweden;[17] thousands of soldiers organize and participate in Armed Forces Day demonstrations at 19 military bases on May 15, 1971;[18] drug use is rampant and underground radio networks flourish in Vietnam [19] as Black and white soldiers increasingly identify with the antiwar and Black liberation movements;[20] combat refusals and fragging of officers in Vietnam are epidemic.[21] Thousands are jailed for refusing to fight or simply defying military authority, and nearly every U.S. military prison in the world is hit by riots.[20] Jane Fonda’s antiwar review, The F.T.A. Show, tours military bases and is cheered by tens of thousands of soldiers;[22] the Pentagon concludes that over half the ground troops openly oppose the war and shifts its combat strategy from a ground war to an air war; the Navy and Air Force are both riddled with mutinies and acts of sabotage.[23] VVAW holds the Winter Soldier Investigation, exposing American war crimes through the testimony of veterans, and stages the most dramatic demonstration of the Vietnam era as hundreds of veterans hurl their medals onto the Capitol steps.[24]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir!_No_Sir!

  45. I did not say MSNBC, I wrote NBC which is different, if you took the time to read. You also ignored that I agreed with you, he was wrong in saying it. Your ‘I am right and you are so unmitigatedly wrong and I will curse you and call you names.’ is childish and makes you look silly. If you want to enter into a grown up debate please act like a grownup. I will not respond any further to you as long as you engage in the name calling.

  46. I’m telling all you conservatives, there’s going to be hell to pay when the regular posse returns. You’re in BIG trouble!!

  47. Larry:

    I posted links to the IRS document that explains people will NOT be grandfathered in and that up to 67% will lose their plans.

    From Larry’s IRS report:

    Using these turnover estimates, a reasonable range for the percentage of individual policies that would terminate, and therefore relinquish their grandfather status, is 40 percent to 67 percent.

    And this, also from Larry’s IRS report:

    The Departments estimate there are 16.7 million individuals under age 65 covered by individually purchased policies.

    67% of 16.7 million = 11.2 million. Pretty close to leejcaroll’s number.

  48. “And this, also from Larry’s IRS report:

    The Departments estimate there are 16.7 million individuals under age 65 covered by individually purchased policies.

    67% of 16.7 million = 11.2 million. Pretty close to leejcaroll’s number.”

    Doesnt matter does it? Since Obama said it would be ZERO.

  49. WoW.

    Sussane Summers is welcome to her opinion, it’s America, she can have any opinion she wants and if the WSJ wants to publish it that’s just fine. The WSJ has devolved to just about the level of every other Murdoch tabloid so just consider the source. i don’t know anything about her health advice. If she’s advocating hormones she’s giving bad advice. If she’s an advocate for exercise and vitamins, even 60 pills a day, then she may not be on to something. I did a total nutrition/exercise thing including vitamins- 40 odd pills a day. I became Wonder Woman in less than 3 months. It worked, wonderfully. I couldn’t afford it in either money or time. FWIW.

    I have read about those crappy insurance plans for years. It’s what companies offer employees for the optics. They are great if you never get sick. If you get sick, really sick, and you’re working full time or a couple of part time jobs at MickyD’s type establishments you’ll end up bankrupt and on Medicaid anyway. If the insurance company can find that you had acne, or a sinus infection as an adolescent and didn’t disclose it you’ll end up on Medicaid more quickly because they will cancel you. If you’re a woman, fugetaboutit.

    Obama should have gone on TV and said

    **’I was wrong about keeping your policies if you like them. Insurance companies have used the time between the ACA laws signing and implementation to realign their plans and costs and consumers have taken it in the butt. Our ADA law sets minimums for coverage that are reasonable and humane, the minimum people should expect. I didn’t know just how much crap was being passed of as insurance in America when in fact it was just a scam to skim off money from people, in the main, who were too poor to buy anything better. My fault, I should have known. Next time I’ll ask better questions.

    But hang in there, the plans you will be offered are better; being a woman or being over 55 or having acne as a kid isn’t a pre-existing condition in the future. And if you’re still unhappy with what’s offered just don’t buy it, that’s your choice too. And if you work for WalMart, organize, get yourselves a union, working full time and having your personnel folks help you sign up for Medicaid is just wrong; they need to be paying you a living wage.’**

    Srsly, what is the worst that could happen, somebody might call him a socialist?

  50. Wow. You mean to tell me that the Wall Street Journal called on Suzanne Somers for her medical expertise? What, wasn’t Benny Hinn available?

  51. Mike, LOL. I recall that when Murdoch wanted to buy the paper there were questions regarding the quality of the paper going forward. Same high quality, jewel in the crown (of Murdoch print media) blah, blah, blah. went the assurances.

  52. lottakatz, you’re certainly right about Murdoch. Most financial news is what it is, but WSJ as an editorial voice will eventually occupy the same level as his other publications.

  53. MikeS,

    It tough for some of us politically as we can not support commie lunatics like Obama n friends nor can we support the nazis on the other end of the political spectrum.”

    Oky1,

    You’ve been commenting for a while so I get where you are coming from and for the most part we agree things are in a bad state. We also agree that Obama has not been a good President. Where we disagree is whether or not he’s a Communist. In my opinion he isn’t. He is to my mind a slightly right of Center Corporatist and that ain’t Communism. The reason I stress that point is because to oppose him and the others who would turn our country into a corporate police state, we need to see where they are coming from. Part of the sad thing with people in the Tea Party (those who don’t hate Obama because of his skin color) is that they get that our government is corrupted, but they don’t get that the people egging them on, corporatists like the Koch Brothers, are fascist feudalists.

  54. Mike S,

    I apologize for being exhausted again.

    Re: David D seems to make fun of Susan Summers for taking vitamins & minerals for health.

    I went to the local Whole Foods last weekend to pick up vitamins/minerals to attempt to boost my own immunity & energy.

    While there I notice a 70+ gal in a cheerleader’s outfit.

    I started to laugh at first & looked away.

    I looked again & he’ll, she didn’t look half bad in that outfit.

    I would have said something to her , but I wouldn’t have known how to get my wife in to agreeing to take her home.

    lol :)

    You, me, some of the tea party people, left/right leaning, etc…, we all share many common core concerns.

    My main mentor currently is saying to thousands of us, protect yourselves, remove your assets out of harms way, there’s no saving the current system or safety for any of us, it’s collapsing. We are headed directly to a Banana Republic, anytime from now & the next 2-4 years!!!!! I hope that sinks in because I understand what he is saying & why. Sorry, I hate it.

    He’s made that bet financially as have I.

    And then we both/all, pound the keyboards & in public arguing that our financial positions are wrong & fail.

    As I understand it there are at least 1500-2000 different brands of socialism, commies on the far left, Nazis on the far right. I’m in the middle range somewhere.

    I’ve seen your comments on isms before & understand them, but no disrespect meant, I let that go because I see stats that say 88% of the gen pop flunk history so I attempt to use my words as teaching tools & hope it helps some. I could, as always, be wrong, but I try.

    I seem to think they might understand what a commie is verse what a nazi is? Who knows when they have their faces in their phones texting, driving 80 mpg down the turnpike. It’s crazy!

    My mentor, I & others helped get Obama in office, then once in he turned corrupt we’ve had to pull support from him. Commie or what ever he is, he is not representing the USC & it’s “Bill of Rights” as I & others understand it’s intent.

    Hopefully people that come from all sides of the political spectrum can organize at least around some of the positive core issues this nation was found on, Individual Freedom & Liberty for each & everyone regardless of their unique differences of lifestyles & opinions.

    “Better we get a half a loaf then no bread at all!” TJ.

  55. I woke up early and discovered two things. One, it is now Daylight Savings Time and I have lost an hour. It is only 4:35 a.m. not 5:35 a.m. like my windup clock tells me. Second, I opened the Turleyblog and had to look at the photo above of the smiling broad in the military top who should be topless at this time of her life and at this time of the morning. Nuff said.

  56. Or did I gain an hour? It will be light quicker? And dark earlier? I hope I don’t wake up tomorrow at any hour and see this hormone pumping you know where smiling nutcase on the screen. I might have to go to Scotusblog first.

  57. Yeah, I fell backwards when I woke up, looked at the turleyblog here first off and had to look at the photo of this hormone injection nutcase smiling in her Marine uniform. But. And its a big butt. I am going back to sleep.

  58. How old is smiley face? Does that age factor have something to do with her interest in socialized medical care? As we get closer to the grave we should care less. As we get closer to infatuation with medical care and as we get on some program where we see a doctor more often than we see our grandkids then we have a problem America is addicted to doctors. Doctors can prescribe drugs. This nerd Somers is probably an addict. Nuff said.

  59. Suzanne Somers, expert on nothing
    By Michael Hiltzik
    October 30, 2013
    http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-suzanne-somers-20131030,0,7782801.story#axzz2jaEXLtvk

    Noted healthcare economist Suzanne Somers received a full screen’s worth of valuable Wall Street Journal online space the other day to deliver her judgment on the Affordable Care Act. Before we get to the substance of her argument, let’s acknowledge that her piece has added to her worldwide fame. It may not do great things for the Journal’s reputation, though.

    Somers, last seen hawking exercise equipment and cure-all elixirs in infomercials and her website, declared the act to be a “Socialist Ponzi Scheme.” She wrote: “Let’s call affordable health care what it really is: It’s socialized medicine.” This viewpoint probably conforms to that of the Wall Street Journal’s editorial page, in which case they deserve each other.

    But in terms of facts: Sorry, no. The Affordable Care Act actually leaves U.S. healthcare in the hands of the private insurance industry. That’s not socialism. As for calling the act “a greater Ponzi scheme than that pulled off by Bernie Madoff,” it’s embarrassing even to have to debunk this. Suffice to say it shows Somers to know nothing about (a) Ponzi schemes, (b) Bernie Madoff, or (c) the Affordable Care Act. But we knew that.

    Somers uses this assertion to veer into an extended rant about the Canadian healthcare system, which of course isn’t what we have in the United States. In any event, she gets the facts and figures about the Canadian system wildly wrong, as this post by Aaron Carroll, a true-to-life healthcare expert, explains.

    The real question raised by Somers’ post, which has already generated a three-part correction, is whether the Wall Street Journal has any standards at all for what it publishes in this online feature labeled, we assume not facetiously, “The Experts.”

    Presumably the Journal is above featuring blond actresses on its website purely as clickbait, but then what’s the answer? The blog’s editor, Larry Rout, told the Poynter Institute’s MediaWire that its goal is to showcase “a variety of viewpoints” from a “growing group of elite panelists.” Yes, but where does Somers fit in again?

    Certainly there’s nothing new about entertainment figures being sought after for their views on the weighty issues of the day. Celebrity can be a powerful instrument when it serves laudable causes — antipoverty, peace, universal healthcare. It can also be dangerous. The starlet Jenny McCarthy, lately awarded a spot on the popular talk show “The View,” is a noted anti-vaccine campaigner, a movement that causes illness and death.

    The exploitation of star power on behalf of any public issue, pro or con, should be treated with great caution, lest you end up with cases like Dr. Oz giving the unqualified green light to the potentially hazardous activity of tackle football in school, a disgraceful act we reported on a few days ago.

    When someone like Somers is labeled an “expert,” red flags should wave. Unless, that is, you subscribe to the theory put forth by the late Sen. Roman Hruska of Nebraska, who defended President Nixon’s nomination of the resoundingly mediocre judge G. Harold Carswell to the Supreme Court by arguing, “There are a lot of mediocre judges and people and lawyers. They are entitled to a little representation, aren’t they?” By that standard, sure: Suzanne Somers is an expert.

  60. “I seem to think they might understand what a commie is verse what a nazi is?”

    Oky1,

    You may or may not remember that I’ve written about personally knowing people who were active communists back in the 60’s. I opposed them in my Union and used to be called “A running dog of Capitalism” by them in debates. They were all angry at me because I was a young, up and coming union activist and they all tried to recruit me, but failed. They failed because as I would listen to them drone on about their particular brand of Marxism (there were literally Leninist, Stalinist, Maoist and Trotskyite factions) it struck me that not only were they speaking nonsense, but that most of them were actually lousy at our job of helping poor people. They talked a good game, but didn’t deliver where it counted. The other problem is that Marx is a bore and people who read Marx are boring, of course people who talk Marx are even more boring. Many of them incidentally had sold out to management within ten years and the others I lost track of. My experience with them was such that I’m pretty familiar with what is and what isn’t communist. In my opinion there is not one person in political office today who is a communist. In today’s American political scene Dwight Eisenhower would be called an extreme Left Winger and Richard Nixon a Liberal. Obama is pretty much comparable to Nixon politically, as was Bill Clinton.

  61. Well, I went back to bed and woke up, opened the blog and did not have to look at Thighmaster’s face smiling at us. Instead I had to look at Ted Cruz’ dad. Jeso.

  62. Yeah, they ruled on the INDIVIDUAL MANDATE to PURCHASE Obamacare——-NOT on the law ITSELF. You said the ACA was constitutional because the SC ruled it was. You’re WRONG. They never ruled on the constitutionality of the law ITSELF. They ruled on PROVISIONS OF the law—–not the LAW ITSELF. What you just posted actually supports what I said—so thank you!

    Hmmm….I haven’t seen or read of any other “constitutional challenges” to the ACA. Have you?

    Crickets………

  63. leejcaroll wrote: “The right leaning SCOTUS has deemed the ACA constitutional…”

    This is false. You are believing left leaning headlines. The SCOTUS found a portion of the ACA to be unconstitutional. The law had to be modified because of it.

  64. leejcaroll wrote: “it’s certainly incorrect to claim, as some Republicans have, that people are losing insurance coverage. Instead, in virtually all cases, it’s being replaced with probably better (and possibly more expensive) insurance.”

    No, the Republicans are telling the truth and the Democrats are lying, with our President leading the way. They created a grandfather clause so they could provide the basis for their lie, that if you already have insurance that you like, you can keep it. The truth is that a change to the deductible, co-pay, or benefits would cause the grandfather clause to be nullified and the policy could no longer be purchased. Such changes to policies are done routinely because insurance companies rely upon statistics to stay operational. The result is that millions of people have their insurance policies cancelled. Now the President and Democrats provide spin to the situation by saying they are being transitioned to another insurance plan under the ACA requirements. Problem is that these millions of people who have been cancelled cannot sign up for new insurance because of computer glitches. They say you can call in by phone and sign up manually, but when people have tried to do that, they are told the computer system is down for maintenance and they will have to try again later.

    So when President Obama said people who liked their plans can keep them, that was a lie. He knew that policies would change in the same routine way that they always have, and so they would have to cancel these policies and create new ones that are in line with his vision of what health care should be. The truth is that only about 20% of people are projected to be able to keep their existing insurance plan.

  65. Don’t criticize Suzanne Somers so much. She is about 66 years old, and I think she looks fabulous. And I don’t think that can be attributed to nips and tucks, though she might have had a few. The fact is, she’s been into good diets and regular exercise for decades. Insofar as her looks and health are concerned, she must be doing something right!

    Maybe we can learn a thing or two from her expertise. And besides, in spite of her “dumb blonde” acting role that she’s been most associated with, the woman is obviously very smart too. So let’s give credit where credit is due.

  66. Ralph, your comment about Suzanne Somers makes me think you are but one of the shallow men out there. You are proving my point that so much of rightwing media like the Fox Channel is based on selling their viewpoints through sex. I know a lot of women Suzanne’s age who look just as ‘fabulous’ as she does and never pumped vitamins into their bodies, had no surgery and are hot without injecting their vaginas with whatever. But, hey, I’m not a man who fantasizes that women like Ms.Somers may actually pick them out of a mob of lechers. I mean, just the word ‘fabulous’ makes me cringe. You sound like an immature teenager trying to make a compliment to a girl. Grow up: her ‘fabulous’ look at age 66 does not make her an ‘expert’ on health care and the WSJ looks idiotic with printing her article.

  67. I’m pretty sure her expertise is limited to finding ways to get Jack and Janet in trouble with the Ropers or Mr. Furley.

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