Islamic Militants Seize Over 200 Girls To Be Sold Into Slavery . . . The Nigerian First Lady Reportedly Orders Arrest Of The Woman Leading Protests For The Girls

Screengrab from video obtained by AFP of Boko Haram leader Abubakar Shekau

We have discussed the almost weekly race to the bottom by Islamic extremists who use their faith to justify the most despicable and inhumane acts. However, few can match the atrocities of Boko Haram (“Western education is sinful”) — more properly known as The Congregation of the People of Tradition for Proselytism and Jihad. This Islamic movement in Nigeria, Cameroon, and Niger was founded by Mohammed Yusuf in 2002 and has made murder and church bombings its special signature of faith. However, even the piles of thousands of corpses killed in the name of Allah did not prepare the world for the latest atrocity: the kidnapping of 200 Nigerian girls and an announcement from Boko Haram leader Abubakar Shekau that “I abducted your girls. I will sell them in the market, by Allah.” Reports indicate that many of the girls have been “married” to Boko Haram soldiers. Nigerians are complaining that the government (which receives enormous U.S. and foreign aid) is not working particularly hard to free the girls. President Goodluck Jonathan described the detention as “unfortunate” and “insensitive”. His wife proved more direct. Mrs. Jonathan has reportedly ordered the arrest of Naomi Mutah, a representative of the Chibok community where the girls were seized from their school. So 200 girls are abducted to be sold into slavery by a fanatical Islamic movement and the wife of the president has the woman leading protests arrested.

Last month, the fanatics overpowered guards at a school and forced the girls out of bed and into trucks. Some 276 were kidnapped and at least 53 escaped. That left 223 in captivity. Mutah and others started a campaign to force action from the government.

Reports indicate that First Lady Patience Jonathan felt slighted that the mothers of the abducted girls had sent Ms. Mutah to the meeting. The First Lady appears to have no authority to order such an arrest but that does not appear to matter in Nigeria.

For his part, the devout man promising to sell girls into slavery is captured on a video coldly describing how “There is a market for selling humans. Allah says I should sell. He commands me to sell. I will sell women. I sell women.” The State Department believes that he means it and that the girls could well disappear into Nigeria’s “market.”

Even if one accepts the statements of the government that they are trying to find the girls, the actions of the First Lady are an outrage. At some point, the United States has to tie foreign aid to basic values protecting women and the rule of law. Nigeria is breathtakingly corrupt. We have seen around the world how such corruption invites extremists to take hold and offer Sharia law as the answer to endemic problems of local governments. We seen to be sustaining such corruption from Iraq to Afghanistan to Nigeria while increasing drone attacks against insurgents fighting these governments. It has not proven a winning strategy but we do not seem to have a plan B. We gave some $625 million to the country in 2012. In the meantime, girls are denied their most basic right to education and choice. U.S. dollars should go to those countries that commit themselves to basic values, including the rights of women and girls as well as protections for free speech and free exercise. The world is facing a deep divide between religious orthodoxy and individual rights. The West has to stop being apologetic for demanding that nations afford their citizens basic rights as a condition for support. At the moment, we are pouring billions into countries that continue to radicalize and organize against basic freedoms. At a minimum, we should put the emphasis on aid to educating girls and establishing free press and independent court systems. Obviously, this needs to include security protection for schools. I believe that the Obama Administration is targeting such programs but we clearly need to require more from recipient countries in terms of reforms. In the case of Nigeria, we might want to start with demanding reforms of the faux office of the First Lady.

Sources: BBC and CNN.

90 thoughts on “Islamic Militants Seize Over 200 Girls To Be Sold Into Slavery . . . The Nigerian First Lady Reportedly Orders Arrest Of The Woman Leading Protests For The Girls

  1. A very sick reminder what happens when the government mixes religion into governance and policy. I agree that foreign aid should be immediately removed until Nigeria takes religion out of the government. In what world is kidnapping of 200 plus young girls considered unfortunate or insensitive? How about calling it a crime and doing something about it?!!

  2. Fundamentalists on steroids. All because of a faith in an invisible being. Stop all aid and yes, tie any aid given to proof of human rights.

  3. All foreign aid in any form and all trade or other interaction with theocracies or countries like Nigeria should be stopped immediately. We have spent far too much money on countries and rulers like this and this is the result. Wealthy leaders and crushingly poor people. A religion that allegedly supports the kidnapping and rape of girls and women is not a religion of which I am interesting in being tolerant. I pity the people. Theocracies are bad for humans. Lets send this story to SCOTUS. Oh, I forgot they don’t care.

  4. lol good luck with that one… its another distraction since the basic rights, and freedoms of humanity are being stripped left, right and sideways everyday.. trust the corporation of nigeria knows exactly where those girls are at. what it will take to stop this is for we the people to stand up as one and begin to fight back… until then it will continue to get worse and worse and so get prepared

  5. Anyone who says Islam is a religion of peace is a fool, anyone who says there are Muslims who are against these types of people is an idiot: Islam preys on the weak and innocent it is corrupt and evil. To lie so as to advance the faith in its conquest is a noble thing
    . We have these same thing occurring here in the US, yet we turn a blind eye to them. Our leaders are bought by and ordered by Islamic pacts for their re=election.

  6. ” I agree that foreign aid should be immediately removed until Nigeria takes religion out of the government.”

    I am not so sure. Sometime you have to do the work where the work is. And sometimes you have to use the tools that are available there.

    I am reminded of Thomas a man I came to know through many conversations over a period of years. I have no idea how he made it out of Nigeria and became a legal resident in Washington DC. But there he was a devout Christian fundamentalist, both corrupt and principled in a way that was uniquely Thomas. I am sure there are many more in Nigeria who are against pillaging, kidnapping, rape and murder.

    Maybe we really do have to perform a kind of triage with our foreign aid dollars and cut off those we cannot help right now. But it is not clear to me that our funds have no effect or that there is nothing we can do to better direct our efforts.

    At the least, this situation requires more discussion before we abandon the people of Nigeria to their fate with the militias.

  7. Wonder what the vassal General Ham has to say about it:

    General Carter Ham, the AFRICOM commander for the Pentagon, admitted last week that the US had helped trained the Mali rebels, including Captain Amadou Sanogo, who led the military coup which overthrew Mali’s constitutionally-elected government.

    In describing the statement Ham made at the Ralph Bunche center, Veterans Today editor Gordon Duff is highly critical of Ham’s support for widening US military involvement in the region, including the recent establishment of drone bases in Niger.

    Duff is extremely concerned that the US lacks the intelligence resources in Africa to prevent the horrendous “collateral damage” nightmares drones have caused in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Yemen.

    He goes on to describe Mali as a “domino” in a misguided and poorly thought out destabilization effort aimed at creating a generation of warfare.

    (Journalism: Facts vs. Fantasy). Of the six commands that oversee the globe, USAFRICOM is very active at this time doing something.

  8. When I Googled companies buying Nigerian oil, a whole new perspective opened up. Missing girls? Who cares. As the leader’s name suggests, Goodluck.

    Oil India Ltd. (OINL), the nation’s second-biggest state-run explorer, is studying an acquisition of Nigerian oil and gas assets owned by Royal Dutch Shell Plc (RDSA), according to people familiar with the matter.
    Oil India is weighing a bid for stakes Shell holds in some onshore blocks, valued at as much as $2 billion, the people said. It will partner with India’s Sandesara Group on the potential purchase, according to the people,
    who asked not to be identified as the deliberations are private.

    The explorer joins Dangote Group, controlled by Africa’s richest man, and Seplat Petroleum Development Co. in seeking to acquire Nigerian assets being sold by Western rivals.
    Shell and Chevron Corp. are divesting fields in the country amid persistent violence and crude theft in the oil-rich Niger River delta.

  9. More people have been murdered and enslaved in the name of atheism than in the name of God. Neither religion nor atheism are inherently bad, men are sometimes evil.

  10. Should we reevaluate our foreign aid and stop it where it is being used to corrupt local politicians (many areas)? Yes. But here is what we will do instead. We will put toll booths on our formerly free Interstate road system so we can continue to fund corrupt foreign countries. We will reduce our funds to education in this country so we can buy more drones to kill people in foreign countries. We are Fd up.

  11. I think (given the current US Sup Ct state of mind) – that we should send Bundy as the foreign Ambassador to the crisis; and see how he resolves it all.

    With liberty and justice for all.

  12. Nick S. I am not sure you are right. The 30 years war, the Crusade the Inquisitions are just a few.

  13. Nick – if you are expecting the MSM to follow anything that might make our glorious leader look bad, you are on a fool’s errand. The Crusades were started to take back the Holy Land from the conquering Muslims.

  14. Justice Holmes,

    Mao: 49 million

    Stalin: 7 million

    Pol Pot: 2 million

    I have not added Romania and North Korea, didn’t want to be seen as running up the score.

  15. Dan;

    I think progress (and Rodman) got a raw deal.

    It would have been wonderful for the world, Korea and the hope of progress against tyranny; for Rodman to simply get basketball going with N. Korea.

    As for my Bundy reflection….

    There’s an old country joke about a hunt;
    and the hunter climbing into the tree to chase the wildcat out.

    When the cat keeps attacking the hunter, he calls down to his friends;

    “Shoot! Shoot! For G-d’s sake – please shoot!”

    and they respond “but we might hit you instead”

    where he – in turn – responds

    “one way or the other – I get relief”

    N’est-ce pas!

  16. I agree with Justice Holmes’ comment up there at 1:42 a.m. I also agree with his decision in Buck v. Bell. Three generations of imbeciles are enough. But in this situation we must inquire as to who the imbeciles are. I think that Americans are imbeciles for providing “aid” to any foreign country. As to Nigeria. It is a classic Pirate Territory. Nigerians are one of the world’s largest scam artists on the internet. Nigeria: fly over and flush.

  17. I’m afraid, as Dredd has pointed out… and I have been seeing here and there as I nosed around about Ukraine a while back… we may not want to know the full deal over there. I don’t think we would be happy to find out who all the players are who are involved. Probably not surprised… just not happy. If I’ve learned anything in life, events are seldom as simple as first described.

  18. The aim of all US foreign policy is obtainment and control of energy, extractive industries, and the power of other US corporate entities in nations around the world through antidemocratic surrogates through war, black ops, direct payments (bribes), regime change. This policy is also advanced at home through neoliberal austerity and corporate friendly legislation and tax policy by both parties. Our foreign policy and pronouncements on human rights and democracy are disingenuous. Our actual policies are right wing and antidemocratic in the case of both parties and pay lip service to the rights of women and girls. Under those circumstances, you wish the US to see that religion is kept out of government while religion has and is continuing to seep into government on a large scale through the actions of the Republican right in the states, at the federal level, and in the court system and aided by conservative Democrats, including Obama, either due to belief or surrender to the right wing? I believe it is naive at this point to believe it can happen without a large number of Americans understanding what is at stake and acting to change our policies so that our foreign policy and our domestic programming become pro democracy and collective in support of the common good. It would require a complete turnaround in public policy.

  19. I hear you Theo. The problem with religion is, as with so many things, it can easily be manipulated and used a platform to control others. I think that is why the nonsensical argument continues about creation versus evolution. I consider the argument a folly, and specifically one that does not advance the human condition. What it is–as what the basis of a knowledge relationship is generally speaking–is a power relationship. If creation is exactly as it is written, then truly God is omnipotent, and therefore what I (insert “speaker of the Word”) say has true authority, now follow my instruction…” and, as we see unfortunately time and time again, people do. Do people look for the breakdown in philosophy while professing the Word they bring to us? Not usually. This whole unfortunate event is just another example of the ability of people to find another low–and to justify it anyway they can. And as a general rule, the mob mentality usually fills in the blanks where there is a disconnect between the philosophical breakdown leading to right and wrong. Children, especially orphans, and women, were very, very important to Mohammed. Would Mohammed ask this kind of atrocity? I don’t think so. Would Jesus? I think not.

    It is amazing how much power just mentioning “I’m a Christian” carries in politics (and, I guess, whatever prevalent religious system is in your geolocation). And in the US now, strangely enough, there is a self-subscribing power behind, “I’m an athiest” as well. It seems more and more certain aspects of our population have granted themselves almost the power of god-like understanding while rejecting God. And these people fall into the same trap. They too seem to not have to answer to the rigor of sound philosophy they require of the religious. Are we disingenuous, or maybe we have lost our collective soul as a nation? As a nation, there seems to be no common path. I feel at this point it time, a complete turnaround cannot happen without cataclysmic events.

  20. If you have no other platform to stand on;

    then wrap yourself in an American flag – grab a bible and kiss babies.

    Promising them you will do all the good you can;
    because suckers will believe anything wrapped well.

  21. Laser,
    That is an old Jerry Clower story. I ran into him all the time at the airport FBO when he was waiting for his plane to pick him up for his weekly trip to Nashville. He would hang out and tell stories to anyone who would hold still and listen. Probably one of the funniest–and most genuine–people I ever met.

    Here is Jerry himself telling the story.

  22. Can we please stop calling extremists/terrorists “Islamic”? They are no more a part of Islam than I would be part of Christianity just because I shouted the name of Jesus while committing heinous crimes.

  23. “Can we please stop calling extremists/terrorists “Islamic”? They are no more a part of Islam than I would be part of Christianity just because I shouted the name of Jesus while committing heinous crimes.”

    I am not sure that is defensible. It seems to me there are two key questions: 1) do they think of themselves as Muslim and 2) do other Muslims accept them as Muslim?

    I don’t have any personal knowledge. But news reports that seem credible to me indicate that some of them believe not only that they are Muslim but also that they are acting at the direction of religious elders. In addition it is clear that at least some other Muslims accept them as Muslim.

    I don’t think that declining to describe radicals as Muslims leads to clarity. If the radical believes he is Muslim and acting in accordance with that faith then it seems to me an evasion to avoid dealing with that fact.

    I would argue that the only hope we have of resolving our differences is to clearly understand those with whom we have problems. If radicals believe they are acting according to their religious beliefs we need to understand that.

  24. Secretary of State John Kerry announced today that the U.S. will send intelligence to Nigeria to help the Nigerians find the Nigerians. Egypt is considering executing by hanging some 400 Muslim Brothers and some people are saying nooooo. You have to kill Muslim extremists before they get extreme. So I say Hang em High. As to the Nigerian child kidnappers. They must have families. Go after their family members and kidnap them.

  25. Charlie – I am going to call them Islamic terrorist. Their key motive is defense of Islam and they create terror. Islamic terrorist is a perfect descriptor.

  26. The latest health news, if anyone is interested, is that all alcohol is unhealthy. Therefore I propose there is another religion – the bottle, the pills, the smoke. These are the people involved in this Nigerian child kidnappers – check it out !!!

  27. Paul Schulte
    “How could “Hope and Change” go wrong?”

    I hoped things would get better. They have.

    For example, I’ll be kind to George Bush for a second. I know, you’re shocked… But I’ll leave out the recession he inherited from Bill Clinton, and the Little Bush Depression he left for Obama. I’ll look at Bush’s NON-recession monthly job growth: 68,000.

    Obama’s is double that.

    Now that’s change I can believe in.

  28. We having been trying to rid this site of Wikipedia because it is so easily edited and open to flaw. Do you have another source for Christian terrorism?

  29. ” Can you provide examples of you labeling Christian Terrorists for the same reasons?”

    I think the relevant point is can we identify Christian terrorists where our understanding is enhanced by knowledge of their faith. Are there Christian terrorist who are motivated by their faith to act to defend their faith or act at the direction of recognized religious leaders?

    There is little doubt that there are many Christian terrorist.

    However I would argue their motivations are primarily economic or based on ethnic or other group hatred. The identification as Christian offers little insight for their actions.

    Is the group religious identification one fact among many that yields little additional understanding or is the group identification a key to understanding the warrior, his motives and what the battle is about?

    Klansman are clearly Christian. But their motives seem to flow from considerations of political power, economic position and race hatred. Certainly their personal faith must have been a resource for them. But I don’t see how the fact of their religious choice tells us much we don’t already know.

    In contrast I would argue that some of the actions of Al Qaeda are simply inexplicable without reference to their faith. For example, it is claimed that one motivation for Al Qaeda attacks was the presence of US forces on Saudi territory. How is it possible to understand that without understanding the view of Al Qaeda leaders which leads to their understanding of their religion?

    Religion seems largely irrelevant in the strategy to recruit new Klansman. In contrast, religion seems to be a key component in the recruitment strategy of Al Qaeda.

    I could go on. But I think you see the point. The religious reference for Al Qaeda is useful, for the Klan not so much.

    If you can think of a group of Christian terrorists where religion is crucial to understanding their activities but has been ignored or denied then I would be pleased to hear of it. Perhaps the IRA would be such an example. But it is not clear to me that the religious aspect there has been slighted. I would argue that the Catholic Protestant dimension to the Irish violence has been pretty well documented.

    At this point I think I will raise the question to you. If you believe that religion is a useful tool for understanding some Christian terrorist and has been ignored then help us. Identify that group. Let us know what we have been overlooking.

    Of course one point we ought to acknowledge is that the fact that many of today’s radicals are motivated by their religion does not imply that others of that faith are radical.

    It seems to me that the best evidence shows that the vast majority of Muslims want a peaceful world as much as anyone else. It is wrong to assume that the fact that many radicals are Muslim implies that many Muslims are radical. That characterization is unfair and the essence of religious bigotry.

  30. 1° Can drones be sent in Nigeria?
    2° Are we obligated to apply the Geneva Conventions toward Boko Haram members?

  31. May 6, 2014

    Captivity

    by Teju Cole

    http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/books/2014/05/captivity.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    There are vast distances between the cities. The terrain is varied. Forest gives way to savanna with scattered trees (shea, locust bean), and then to drier Sahel landscape. On these journeys one forgets city life, enters into something more delicate and more fragile.

    Girls walk by the side of the road, a cluster of bright patterns. Boys play in the dusty fields. Every now and again, a church flashes by, whitewashed or with a plain mud façade. Ways of life mix here in northern Nigeria; there are many Christians and Muslims, and many languages. “The Christian south,” it is often written, “the Muslim north,” but the country’s truth is coexistence. This is true of the so-called Middle Belt, and in Kaduna, and Jos, and, continuing in the northeast direction, beyond my journey, in Borno.

    In the town of Chibok, the girls, mostly sixteen or seventeen, had been cautious. They knew, as everyone did, that schools were being targeted. About forty boys had been killed at a school in Yobe last July. They’d been lined up in their dorms and shot. In the same state, twenty-nine others had died in February, their bodies burned, the culprits never found. And so the girls had come back to Chibok only for their exams—a quick, calculated risk before they returned home.

    Where are they now? The shock of a sudden captivity will have given way to other fears. There are more than two hundred of them, Muslim and Christian. Nigeria’s northeastern border is massive, porous. They don’t know when they crossed the border, or if they crossed the border. They could be in Niger, or Chad, or Cameroon (these three neighboring countries are impoverished states with weak security). The girls know only what their captors say. They have lost track of time. But they feel, in their bodies, the distances covered by the rumbling trucks. They cannot imagine what the world is thinking about them, or if it is.

    And what are they themselves thinking of, huddled in their dozens, warned to stay quiet? Not of the murders of Boko Haram’s founder and some of his followers by Nigeria police five years ago, which sparked the violent phase of the group’s campaign of terror. Not of the thousands killed during that campaign, in suicide bombs, attacks on churches, and shootings at restaurants, a frightening catalog of atrocities. Not of the global war on terrorism, nor of America’s strategic goals in that war. (Already, in Niger, a drone base is assembled; already American specialists are on their way to help the Nigerian government.) Not of Baga, some two hundred miles from Chibok, where last year government forces massacred two hundred civilians, nor of Maiduguri, where, in mid-March this year, more than five hundred men were executed on suspicion of being terrorists. Not of Abuja, where bombs now explode with unnerving frequency. Not of next year’s elections, which the President wants to win at all costs, nor of the corruption fueling his reëlection bid.

    They are not thinking of Twitter, where the captivity is the cause of the day, nor of the campaigns on the streets of Lagos for a more competent and less callous government, nor of the rallies in front of Nigeria’s embassies worldwide, nor of the suddenly ramped-up coverage by international media, nor of how this war will engulf even those who are only just beginning to hear about it, nor of those who, free for now, will someday become captives.

    They are perhaps thinking only that night is falling again, and that the men will come to each of them again, an unending horror.

    Teju Cole is a photographer, and the author of two works of fiction, “Open City” and “Every Day Is for the Thief.” He contributes frequently to Page-Turner.

  32. “Islam is so violent that this Muslim had his head cut off by a Christian.” -David Mizner tweet

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/30/world/africa/muslim-man-is-beheaded-in-central-african-republic.html?ref=todayspaper&_r=0

    “Muslim Man Is Beheaded in Central African Republic”

    By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
    APRIL 29, 2014

    “Christian militiamen decapitated a young Muslim man in the capital, Bangui, two days after peacekeepers escorted some of the last remaining Muslims from the city. Central African Republic’s conflict intensified in December when Christian militants known as anti-Balaka stormed the capital to overthrow the Muslim rebel government, which stepped down in January. Reprisal attacks on Muslim civilians accused of having collaborated with the rebels, known as Seleka, have continued despite the deployment of French and regional peacekeepers.”

  33. ap – do you remember the reprisals at the end of WWII. Would you call the people who strung up Mussolini Christian terrorists? Or the horrible things the French did to collaborators?

  34. Paul Schulte

    “We having been trying to rid this site of Wikipedia because it is so easily edited and open to flaw. Do you have another source for Christian terrorism?”

    Genetic fallacy. This particular Wikipedia page has many sources listed.

    I could list all the abortion clinic bombings, the killing of Dr. Tiller, etc.

    And there’s this:

    http://www.commdiginews.com/world-news/in-tragic-twist-anti-balaka-christian-terror-groups-attack-african-muslims-9691/

    “In what Amnesty International is calling “ethnic cleansing,” Christian terror groups called the anti-balaka are targeting and attacking Muslims in the country of the Central African Republic. The terror groups also attacked a Muslim refugee camp established to house innocents fleeing from the violence.”

    If we’re going to label terrorists based on what religion they practice, then we should do it with all terrorists, not just Muslim ones.

  35. Supak – I think there is a civil war going on there and you would have to call them rival militia groups. I am not against calling Christian terrorist groups terrorists, but there is a common saying, One man’s terrorist is another man’s revolutionary. As we know from WWII refugee camps are a great place to hide (we found a lot of Nazis hiding there)

  36. Anybody know who is trying to ‘ban’ wiki from this blog? The comment said “we” are trying to ban wiki. I wasn’t aware of such an attempt.

    Anybody know what gives?

  37. Paul Schulte

    “I am not against calling Christian terrorist groups terrorists”

    And yet, somehow I doubt you will.

    Wikipedia is a good place to start. One can easily follow the sources, or try to edit it to make it better if you disagree. Banning it here would be a mistake.

    To attack a point made that references Wikipedia (and the subsequent sources from there) is the genetic fallacy. Argue the points, don’t attack the source.

    With that being said, often when arguing the points, it’s fair to point out that the source has been often, um, incorrect. I do it with the Moonie Times all the time. Some sources are better than others.

  38. Supak – the problem with Wikipedia is in its solution. Find a different source for your information. When I was teaching I would never let my students cite Wikipedia as a source.

  39. Supak – I would call some Crusaders, including Richard the Lion-Hearted a Christian terrorist, if that make you feel better.

  40. Here is an early news story of gunmen who shot and killed the lawyer of a man accused of blasphemy.

    http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2014/05/07/world/asia/ap-as-pakistan.html?ref=news

    At this time we don’t know anything about the gunmen or their motives.

    But I would argue this story can serve as a good hypothetical.

    If the gunmen are Muslims who shot the attorney due to his defense of the man accused of blasphemy then I would argue that religious association might be relevant to our understanding of this event.

    One the other hand, if the gunmen were Muslims who shot the attorney over say, a bad debt, then I would argue that religious affiliation adds little or nothing to our understanding.

    We can always hope the reporters on the scene use good judgment when they present the facts of the event. But we should always use our own judgment and ask ourselves if group affiliation is relevant and aids our understanding or does it obscure or possibly promote stereotypical thinking.

  41. Paul Schulte to Supak – “the problem with Wikipedia is in its solution. Find a different source for your information. When I was teaching I would never let my students cite Wikipedia as a source.”

    Paul: “the problem with Wikipedia is in its solution.”

    ?

    Wikipedia is fine as a preliminary source for basic information.

    Paul: “Find a different source for your information.”

    S/he doesn’t have to “find a different source for … information.”

    Paul: “When I was teaching I would never let my students cite Wikipedia as a source.” (Paul)

    This isn’t high school — it’s a blog.

    And unless something has changed, this is Jonathan Turley’s blog. His “Comments” section, too, when it comes right down to it.

  42. anon – I am so excited that you have appeared to be the arbiter on Turley’s blog. First, Wikipedia is not a fine preliminary source for anything. Yes, I will agree that on some articles it might be fine, but most of the reasons someone here is grabbing an article from Wikipedia is something there is controversy over. I grabbed one a couple of weeks ago and the whole first paragraph was obscene. After that the article was fairly solid. Since then I have tried not to use Wikipedia as a source.

    Second, if I would not let my high school students use it and there are few to no college professors who would let their students use it, why should a blog that complains about the validity of sources all the time, use it. This is one we can all pretty much agree has problems with validity.

    Of course, anon, you can use Wikipedia to your hearts content, however I will not click on the link. And I will ask you for a different source to back up what you are trying to prove.

  43. Paul: “First, Wikipedia is not a fine preliminary source for anything.”

    Yes, it is. It’s a good launching point and there are often good articles that back up much of the material. It’s not a definitive source. of course, and most people get that.

    “And I will ask you for a different source to back up what you are trying to prove.”

    Ask to your heart’s delight. No one has to dance to your tune. Don’t want to click on my links? Hey, fine by me. I don’t post to please or convince you.

    As I noted above, this is Jonathan Turley’s blog. It’s not mine and it’s not yours.

    We’re talking about comments to a blog, Paul, not a dissertation.

  44. anon – you have been missing the fun as people fight over who can or cannot be used as a source. One would think it was a life-and-death struggle for the truth.

  45. Paul:

    ” I grabbed one a couple of weeks ago and the whole first paragraph was obscene.”

    Which one?

    ” After that the article was fairly solid. ”

    Then fix the first paragraph. See if your corrections make it past the horde.

    What you have ignored here (you do seem to make a habit of ignoring that which is inconvenient to you) is that I specifically said it’s a starting point, it’s usually well-referenced, we can all follow the references, and on the big subjects, Wikipedia is actually quite good.

    But if you don’t let your students quote it, I’m curious… Are there other things you don’t let them quote?

    Do you let them quote the Moonie Times? Fox news?

  46. “At some point, the United States has to tie foreign aid to basic values protecting women and the rule of law.” Professor Turley, I could not agree with you more. We boycott the Beverly Hills Hotel here in CA when the Sultan of Brunei announced he would impose Sharia Law, including death by stoning for gays. And yet we pour billions of dollars in aid into countries that do exactly that, and abuse women and girls. We should not financially support countries that do not share our values.

    Many people do not realize that slavery still exists today, especially in Africa. They think it only existed in the US, and ended in the Civil War. But it is still practiced in many countries, and experiencing a resurgence in Africa.

  47. Bigfatmike – I agree. If a muslim or a Christian murders somebody, say out of jealous rage, it had nothing to do with his religion.

    If a muslim wages jihad, shouting allahu akbar, then it was done in the name of his religion, and he is, specifically, an Islamic extremist. If he commits honor violence in the name of Sharia law, he is an Islamic extremist.

    Plenty of Muslims emigrated to America because they wanted to escape the violence. I have known the sons and daughters of Muslim immigrants, and the last thing they would want is Sharia Law, where they could be arrested for wearing nail polish or having a Western haircut.

    But that does not change the fact that Islamic extremists commit terrible acts of violence, and have taken over entire regions.

  48. bigfatmike: I agree. Islamic terrorism is happening on a large scale. It’s hard to compare with Christian extremists, like the Branch Davidians, which are comparatively rare.

    Islamic extremists take the sword verses literally. Moderate Muslims take them figuratively.

    Islamic extremists are trying for another Muslim expansion, which led to the Crusades. The Middle East used to have a majority Christian population before the Muslim Expansion ended that. And there is a reason for all the Moorish architecture in Europe. The Crusades ended a Muslim world takeover. Yes, they burned the library of Alexandria (that still makes me writhe), as well as many other centers of learning, and yes, by the final Crusade, it devolved into basic pillaging. But we cannot apply anachronistic modern standards to a period of time in which it was conquer and take what you can for a prize.

    Every time Islamic extremists murder, rape, etc the apologists jump right in and try to explain that they are not so bad, that Christians must be just as bad. It’s nonsensical. Just denounce evil when you see it. When Christians end up in the news for raping and pillaging, denounce their actions. But we don’t always have to drag them into every story about Muslims committing atrocities.

    It would be the same if Waco was burning on the news, while the anchor stated, you know, the Branch Davidians are not so bad, because Muslims do this all the time.

  49. I have been guilty of posting from Wikipedia on occasion, too, but have tried to kick the habit. You could absolutely never use it as a source for a paper, because its accuracy is not monitored, and it is not properly vetted.

  50. Annie:

    Please read the above string of posts, which ask that terrorists not be identified as Muslims, and inevitably bring up that Christianity is just as bad.

  51. Anyone who attributes the murder of Americans on a video, critical of Mohammed, is apologizing for terrorists, “We insulted their religion!!”

  52. Nick – especially true when they have the maker of the video, which had nothing to do with the deaths of 4 Americans (including the ambassador), thrown in prison.

  53. Poor schmuck, he had his parole violated because of an election narrative in jeopardy. My wife was a Fed Probation Officer, her take on his getting violated was it was horseshit. She is an Obama voter, twice.

  54. Supak – Benghazi is going to be an interesting hearing. Am looking forward to Hillary having memory failure again.

  55. Supak – Lincoln was supposedly quoted at the end of the war saying that now he could listen to ‘Dixie’ because it was one of his favorite tunes.

  56. Paul Schulte

    “Supak – Benghazi is going to be an interesting hearing.”

    Not at all, because the GOP didn’t care about all the attacks on our embassies in the past (when Republicans were President), they didn’t care about the half a million people dead in Iraq, and they cut funding for embassy security.

  57. Nick: “Anyone who attributes the murder of Americans on a video, critical of Mohammed, is apologizing for terrorists, “We insulted their religion!!”

    I know for a fact that people have been killed because Muslims were angry that someone was critical, or drew a picture, of their deity.

    When I state that fact, I am not apologizing for terrorists. I am simply stating a fact.

    Schulte: “Nick – especially true when they have the maker of the video, which had nothing to do with the deaths of 4 Americans (including the ambassador), thrown in prison.”

    The riot outside the embassy included people who were angry about the video, just as riots in Cairo and elsewhere did.

    The person thrown in prison was not thrown in prison for making the video, as you suggested. He was thrown in prison for a parole violaiton.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/08/us/maker-of-anti-islam-video-gets-prison-term.html

  58. Supak – evidence clearly points to a planned coordinated attack in Benghazi. The families of the victims were assured that the maker of the video would be punished (Hillary Clinton told them this) and he was. NYT is in bed with the Obama administration and was as clueless then as it is now.

  59. http://www.blackagendareport.com/content/freedom-rider-how-not-“bring-back-our-girls”

    “While Americans wring their hands over the abducted teens, they know nothing about the African strong men supported by their government who do the very same thing. American allies like Yoweri Museveni in Uganda and Paul Kagame in Rwanda have kidnapped children and forced them to become soldiers. Both are also responsible for the deaths of six million Congolese. Americans not only have to be better informed, but they must stop thinking that their government and its allies are good and beneficent when they are anything but.

    Sometimes the answer to the question, “What can we do?” is “Nothing.” There is nothing that the average American citizen can do to get these girls released and those with the power to do something aren’t very interested in internecine warfare in Nigeria. Their machinations created this and so many other tragedies around the world.

    It is difficult not to have a strong emotional reaction to such a terrible story but that is the precise moment to dig deeper and search for complexities. That is the least that can be done to help bring back our girls.”

  60. And I keep hearing how bad the Confederate States of America were. Well Sherman was an arsonist and both he and Lincoln would be tried as war criminals for the “collateral damage” the deliberately inflicted on the south. Please tell me why liberals like Obama support ISIS?

  61. Amy:

    Cause Obama doesn’t, Amy. He blows them up. Most liberals don’t support Isis. Try talking to one sometime. BTW Sherman wasn’t an arsonist. He arguably was guilty of waging war on civilians to end the Civil War. Lincoln wasn’t a war criminal and inflicting damage on enemy combatants and their ability to wage war is not a crime in any country or under international law.

  62. “So Obama supports ISIS now?”

    Well, if you what you call support is a public commitment to degrade and ultimately destroy ISIL, then, yes, Obama supports ISIL. What’s confusing about that.

    “Our objective is clear: We will degrade, and ultimately destroy, ISIL through a comprehensive and sustained counterterrorism strategy,”

    You should see the guy when he really gets mad.

  63. bigfatmike,

    The wording of that quote is purposeful. It hews to the legal authority for the counter-terror anti-ISIS campaign.

    From Sec. 324, Public Law 104-132 (ANTITERRORISM AND EFFECTIVE DEATH PENALTY ACT OF 1996):
    http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-104publ132/html/PLAW-104publ132.htm

    (4) the President should use all necessary means, including
    covert action and military force, to disrupt, dismantle, and
    destroy international infrastructure used by international
    terrorists, including overseas terrorist training facilities and
    safe havens;

  64. Thanks. Imagine that. Here, I though the Obama was speaking extemporaneously and had hit on a charming turn of phrase to express the connection and commitment of the American people to ISIL. .

  65. mespo – under current international law, both Sherman and Lincoln could be tried as war criminals. They waged war on the civilian population which is against the Geneva Convention. Was it an effective strategy? Yes.

  66. bigfatmike: “Thanks. Imagine that. Here, I though the Obama was speaking extemporaneously …”

    It’s like we discussed about Operation Iraqi Freedom. The Iraq mission didn’t begin with Bush. Neither did the War on Terror begin with Obama.

    As with the law and policy of the Gulf War ceasefire enforcement that formed the basis of OIF, in order to understand the law and policy of counter-terrorism that forms the basis of the anti-ISIS campaign, the place to begin your study is the Clinton administration.

    Btw, I’m still waiting for your response to my explanation of the law and policy basis of the Iraq mission – see http://learning-curve.blogspot.com/2014/05/operation-iraqi-freedom-faq.html .

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