As the Court considers the future of affirmative action in higher education, the Florida State Board of Education is moving to create different grading in schools on the elementary and secondary levels in terms of the levels of proficiency expected for students based on their race.
The plan would set different goals for students in math and reading based upon their race. The plan would expect schools to show that Asian students meet 90 percent to be performing at or above grade level in English and white students would have to meet 88 percent of the goals. However, Hispanics would be expected to meet only 88 percent while black students would be expected to meet just 74 percent of black students.
In math, the schools would need to reach 92 percent of Asian kids to be proficient and 86 percent for white students. Hispanics would be expected to be at 80 percent while blacks would be expected to be at 74 percent.
By lowering the percentages for hispanic and black students, the school officials hope to satisfy federal and state guidelines. However, it also institutionalizes the lower scores for minority groups. It also raises the danger that teachers might push harder with white and asian students to achieve higher levels of performance after achieving lower levels for hispanic and black students. I understand the frustration with these state and federal goals. I also understand the differentials found in the baseline for different communities. However, in my view it is still a mistake. I have long argued for a greater investment in our public school system with additional teachers and better pay for teachers. My wife and I are committed to public schools and send our kids to public schools. We believe strongly in the key role that public schools play not only in socializing children but in society as a whole in having a common educational experience.
What do you think?
Source: USA Today
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My point, Mike, was not to compare resumes or empathy notes with you.I’m simply saying that my opinion is not based upon stereotypes gleened from watching tv. I’ve only been “working in the poorest areas in NYC [in my case Chicago and New Orleans], with criminals, drug addicts, mental patients, welfare, foster care”, for 20 years. That does not mean I have no clue as to what’s going on. We apparently disagree with each other. Do you really think you need to explain who Bill Cosby is or inform me that a lot of white people have no contact with inner city blacks? What’s your point? I suppose you think Florida’s grade rigging scheme is a good idea and will build confidence in kids who aren’t achieving. Faking stats won’t fix anything. Giving students bogus diplomas will not help them rise above their poverty. I suppose you agreed with Jessie Jackson Sr. when he threatened to cut the President’s balls off for suggesting people turn off the tv and actually spend some time reading with there children. The e-mail for the White House is on line. Why don’t you send the President a note explaining who Bill Cosby is and why neither he or the president has the right to “talk down” to black people.
“I suspect I’ve spent more intimate personal time with gang bangers and the genrally ghetto fabulous than the people posting on this site. Go ahead and glorify a culture which is killing itself.”
Seamus,
You were trying to establish your authority with that statement, so I called you on it. Part of the difficulty I have with your comment is that you create
“straw men” based on what you think I mean, rather than actually trying to get what I’m saying. As below:
“I suppose you think Florida’s grade rigging scheme is a good idea and will build confidence in kids who aren’t achieving. Faking stats won’t fix anything. Giving students bogus diplomas will not help them rise above their poverty. I suppose you agreed with Jessie Jackson Sr. when he threatened to cut the President’s balls off for suggesting people turn off the tv and actually spend some time reading with there children.”
Actually below is my first comment on this thread and somehow I don’t think it conveys my support for this idiotic Florida plan:
“I can only respond that I totally agree with you. The inequality of education that is suffered by many people of color, or language, to me is directly attributed to the general dereliction on the part of government to provide adequate public school funding and the most competent of teachers. The application of “evidence based systems” to education as in the “No Child Left Behind” act is in my opinion a con game, used to cover up for the fact of inadequate school funding. In Brown v. Bd. of Ed., the aim of the plaintiffs was to ensure that “separate but equal” was overturned and provide Black children with equal educational opportunities. Although I believe integrated schools are a laudable goal, busing was an inadequate means of bringing about the Plaintiffs desired goals.
The evil of separate, but equal, was that it wasn’t equal. Black schools were underfunded and teachers of black children were grossly underpaid. All busing did was increase the antipathy of working whites towards Black people. Busing, as implemented, never extended into the privileged school districts.
In the Forty-Eight years since Brown v. Bd. of Ed. things have’t changed much. We have in our country “Rich” and “Poor” school districts. The inequality in Public Schooling is just about the same and the results garnered also are about the same. This Florida ruling is of a piece with how the Florida Legislature and Governor in Tallahassee operates. Public School teacher salaries in Florida are pitiful when compared to most areas outside of the South. Rather than deal with the problem, or with most problems involving the public good, Florida politicians provide inadequate solutions, masked as reformist. In this case the idea of differing standards based on race are cruel hoaxes, that will only make the disparities worse.
The simple truth is that our country suffers from an “infection” that is inimical to our core beliefs as embodied in our evolving Constitution. The “infection” is the viral nature of the beliefs of a woman, who in life suffered from narcissistic behavior, which she attempted to “normalize” as a philosophy of greed. Ayn Rand infected many in our elite classes in the last 60 years by convincing them that sociopathy was a good standard to live by. This translated into moving conservative very far to the right when it came to the idea of any government program intended to promote the general public welfare. When it came to school systems there was a joining to the fundamentalist right wing, who want their parochial schools equally supported and to those who for reasons of racial prejudice wanted their children going to provide schools with government support. Hence we come to the twin bad ideas of school vouchers and privately run charter schools.
I believe that a public school system is essential to both the educational and economic welfare of a modern industrialized nation. By all measure our country has fallen behind most modern industrial states. Well supported public education is not a political, or economic idea., It is a common sense need for any complex society.”
In discussing issue on threads here I always found it helpful to read the entire thread before commenting on a point that someone has made possibly erroneously. I think you accuse me falsely of thinking this behavior is a positive thing for Black people. My belief is that it is not for me to impose my values upon a large segment of the black population that has been forced to live under degrading circumstances. The criticism of the modes of dress and music fall under the same type of reasoning that condemns black people for the lack of two parent families.
Yes that lack of two parent families does create devastation, but the response to it has been to blame the victims. There are historic reasons for the breakdown of the two parent family system that extend far beyond slavery and I assume you know that. My observations are based not only on personal experience but on a fairly good understanding of the history and sociological/cultural factors that have brought these conditions about. As I said, which you seemed to have missed:
“He [Cosby] did make a great contribution towards racial harmony in that role, but he did not create a “sea change” in overall prejudice.”
and:
“I admire Bill Cosby and appreciated him as a comedian, but like with may somewhere along his career arc he became smitten with himself and his success. I’ve noted that the problem with some of us who have aged is that we forget the lessons learned in our early years.”
Also too where did you ever get the idea that I listen to Jesse Jackson. He has been a con-man since the death of MLK and has used his supposed activism to enrich himself immensely. That being said theres no harm in a Black man doing what Whites in this country have always done.
The problem I have with critiques like Cosby is that they are taken far out of context and therefore uttered thoughtlessly. Cosby and his good friend Harry Belafonte have always been fighters on the front-lines of racial justice. They are trying to send a message to their black brethren, but it is a message without context and therein lies its problem.
Ghetto blacks are engaged in identity separation and isolation, in language, clothing, belief systems, entertainment and their general culture. This is because they feel (rightly) they have been rejected by the mainstream based on their color, as Chris Rock says in his skits on this topic, “the black man has to fly to places a white man can walk.” One of his examples is how his own upscale neighborhood contains two or three superstar blacks but he lives next door to a dentist, which is typical of the whites there.
Being saddled with poor schools, poor jobs, poor infrastructure and little chance to escape without being wildly gifted with some one-in-a-thousand talent (humor, athleticism, intelligence, beauty, voice, charisma), the 99.9% can compete either on the tilted, racist playing field of the general culture, OR they can say screw that, and create their own level playing field with their own rules.
I do not think the language, dress, gangs, signs, and other black culture are necessarily intended to disturb whites, any more than the Amish are dressing to disturb Protestants or the Jewish are celebrating Hannukah to compete with Christmas. Instead they are allowing their culture to evolve independently of white culture and have its own identity; it is the result of them deciding to put no credence in “white rules” of dress, grammar, gender relations, marriage, education, or anything else.
Cosby’s criticism is misguided. The blacks that know they can succeed in the elite intellectual realms to become M.Ds, J.Ds, PhDs, or other professionals will do that, but they have the gift of intellect they can use to level the white playing field.
The ghetto culture is for those 99% that have concluded, by experience, that the white playing field is going to be an uphill battle for them forever, because they were born with average talents. Those are the ones that have the choice of spending their life at a racial disadvantage in the white world, or as a peer with friends and respect in the black culture.
“The reason ghetto blacks wear clothes backward and low hanging pants is because it offends white people”. Really? Then it’s even more pathetic than I thought. I’ve worked as a teacher in the ghetto, and as a public defender. I’m currently a criminal defense attorney in private practice in Chicago. I suspect I’ve spent more intimate personal time with gang bangers and the genrally ghetto fabulous than the people posting on this site. Go ahead and glorify a culture which is killing itself. The oppression of the white power structure pales beside the pathologies too many in this community seem to celebrate. Is it really just done to piss white people off? That’s ridiculous. Is that why the kids in the city are graduating at 3rd grade reading levels,to piss whitey off? Candy-coat it anyway you want. Academic and economic failure; there’s nothing beautiful and meaning about it.
“I suspect I’ve spent more intimate personal time with gang bangers and the genrally ghetto fabulous than the people posting on this site.”
Seamus,
When it comes to that you’re not even in my league. My 37 year career was spent working in the poorest areas in NYC, with criminals, drug addicts, mental patients, welfare, foster care and as a child abuse supervisor (later expert). I worked through the 60’s protest era, the 70’s heroin era and the 80’s crack era. In the 90’s I created and ran drug programs that dealt with addicts, who were also diagnosed with severe mental illness. Most White people don’t have a clue as to what’s going on with the black underclass in this country. Most portrayals of Black people on TV and in films are poor caricatures and stereotypes. Our greatest problem as a nation with our Black citizens is the complete lack of understanding on the part of Whites as to what it must feel like to see ones life and future as hopeless. For instance: http://jonathanturley.org/2011/11/26/the-incarceration-of-black-men-in-america/
Not only is the policy inherently racist (i.e. it sounds like the idiocy in the book, “the bell curve”), it doesn’t even address the problem.
Money should be better spent on schools (look for ways to improve, not knee-jerk politically motivated “solutions”). If you want black students to improve or meet college standards, spend money on them and give them good teachers. Kids will only achieve as high as they are pushed to. If you set a low bar, that’s all people will try for.
The implication behind 74% for blacks is that they’re “not as smart as whites or asians”. Anyone is capable of the highest level, it just means schools have to be properly run and teachers given the resources to do it.
Seamus,
As far as Cosby’s comments they are coming from a man worth perhaps $250 million, who has achieved great success and now hangs around with our country’s elite. Mr. Cosby grew up as a relatively middle-class Black man, who by his own merit has achieved great success. He became nationally beloved playing the role of a wise, upper middle-class Black father on TV and no doubt he sees himself in that light. He did make a great contribution towards racial harmony in that role, but he did not create a “sea change” in overall prejudice.
I agree with Carlyle’s take in that considering the hopelessness, spread by the continued oppression of Black people in this country, much of the culture of the Black underclass responds to their helplessness with behavior that is meant to offend and deny “White Sensibilities”. The truth is that from a cultural standpoint at least, they have succeeded via Rap and hip hop in influencing young whites, who try to emulate their behavior and expropriate their music. This is also a sad fact of American culture in that
the influence of minorities gets adopted by the culture in general, such as in Jazz and Rock and Roll, while its creators get shunted to the sidelines.
I admire Bill Cosby and appreciated him as a comedian, but like with may somewhere along his career arc he became smitten with himself and his success. I’ve noted that the problem with some of us who have aged is that we forget the lessons learned in our early years.
Seamus.
The reason ghetto blacks wear clothes backward and low hanging pants is because it offends white people. White people are comfortable with their rights to hate and despise black people but do not realize how much the blacks hate them back. Much of American black culture has to do with distancing them from the norms of white behaviour. One unfortunate effect of this is that succeeding at academic endeavors is seen as “acting white” which closes off one avenue of escaping the ghetto.
I didn’t say it, Bill Cosby did. But I’m sure you’d have all the confidence in the world if your oncologist (or the mechanic working on the airplane you were about to board) talked to you with this kind of language. It’s not beautiful; it’s a symptom of failure and neglect. Woo woo woo, know what I’m saying? Aight?
Seamus
You say:-
Actually all the examples above are very clear in meaning and beautifully compact, they are examples of a dialect of English spoken in the ghetto. The reason respectable white people do not like speech like this is because it is not the way respectable white people speak therefore it must be defective.
The plan will not pass Constitutional mutard but this is a place where people are too dumb to count chads. I wonder if any of you commenters on this blog have ever seen their shaved head Governor? Anyone who votes for a dork like that needs to have their own head examined. I know that it is easier to have one’s head examined when the head is shaved but this guy is so dumb outwardly in speech and conduct that we dont need any further IQ tests or sanity tests on him. Ever walk the streets on a nice day on the eastern side of FL and listen to the Yorkies yakking away in turedy turd and a turd? Maybe they could have a separate grade system for their offspring.
“Ever walk the streets on a nice day on the eastern side of FL and listen to the Yorkies yakking away in turedy turd and a turd?”
As a lifelong NY’er, now living in Florida, I can assure FairlyBalanced that there are no NY’ers I know, or whom I’ve met, that have that accent. The notion of that accent is a relic of years past and has died out with those of previous generations. Your comments adds a note of stupidity, perhaps bigotry, that is simply gratuitous and most probably an anti-Jewish reference. That is a shame since your other comment about Governor Rick Scott is on point. He is a thoroughly corrupt man, whose election is the result of the political leanings of many of the “native-born Floridians.
By Dr. William Henry ‘Bill’ Cosby, Jr., Ed.D.
They’re standing on the corner and they can’t speak English.
I can’t even talk the way these people talk:
“Why you ain’t,
Where you is,
What he drive,
Where he stay,
Where he work,
Who you be…”.
And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk.
And then I heard the father talk.
Everybody knows it’s important to speak English except these knuckleheads. You can’t be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth.
In fact you will never get any kind of job making a decent living.
People marched and were hit in the face with rocks to get an Education, and now we’ve got these knuckleheads walking around.
The lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal.
These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids.
$500 sneakers for what?
And they won’t spend $200 for “Hooked on Phonics.”
I am talking about these people who cry when their son is standing there in an orange suit.
Where were you when he was 2?
Where were you when he was 12?
Where were you when he was 18, and how come you didn’t know that he had a pistol?
And where is the father? Or who is his father?
People putting their clothes on backward. Isn’t that a sign of something gone wrong?
People with their hats on backward, pants down around the crack, isn’t that a sign of something?
Isn’t it a sign of something when she has her dress all the way up and got all type of needles (piercings) going through her body?
What part of Africa did this come from?
We are not Africans. Those people are not Africans; they don’t know a thing about Africa.
I say this all of the time — it would be like white people saying they are European-American — that is totally stupid.
I was born here, and so were my parents and grand parents and, very likely my great grandparents. I don’t have any connection to Africa, no more than white Americans have to Germany, Scotland, England, Ireland, or the Netherlands.
The same applies to 99 percent of all the black Americans as regards to Africa — so stop, already!
With names like Shaniqua, Taliqua and Mohammed and all of that crap…and all of them are in jail.
Brown or black versus the Board of Education is no longer the white person’s problem.
We have got to take the neighborhood back.
People used to be ashamed.
Today a woman has eight children with eight different ‘husbands’ — or men or whatever you call them now.
We have millionaire football players who cannot read.
We have million-dollar basketball players who can’t write two paragraphs. We, as black folks, have to do a better job.
Someone working at Wal-Mart with seven kids, you are hurting us.
We have to start holding each other to a higher standard….
@feemeister – The weirdness in Florida is headed up by Dave Barry and Carl Haiassen. Those two have profited by it more than anyone, I’m sure of it.
that’s okay Shamus! The Florida cracks was a joke, because there are just so many. I really DO wish there was something we could do
That was a GOOD one; not the retarded ones! HAW HAW HAW!!!!
Unfortunately, THIS one had to be in Florida again. Somebody is a REAL sicko! I’m starting to wonder myself now why this stuff happens here.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/autistic-boy-chickens-found-slaughtered-article-1.1183676
@Feemeister, realized I had made it sound personal. Not meant to be that way, and I sincerely apologize. It does sound as though your state dept. of education is run by a bunch of Kum-by-freakin’-yah types, and hope the courts see the fallacy of such programs on an equal protection basis.
Certainly think it will be interesting how they quantify mixed-race.
Peter Griffin: You mean I need a Jewish guy (to manage my money)?
Cleveland Brown: Not all Jewish people are good with money.
Peter Griffin: Well, yeah, not the retarded ones…
Uhm, what happens if someone is half black and half white? Do we just average it out? And are black hispanics lower or higher than pure black or pure hispanic? and how are the kids supposed to feel? ”I have to study HARDER than you do; it’s not FAIR!”
I supposed that the reason this was done was to try to rake in the federal funding some kind of way. That’s why they do a lot of these idiot things. ”We were able to meet our goals this year!”
Shamus, do you SERIOUSLY think we accept these things willingly? They’ve proven our voting machines are rigged; as are most all of the electronic machines.
Frankly, I think there’s a huge slew of people that need to be arrested and tried for treason! But it seems like I’m the only one . . . And I am NOT talking only in Florida
So black Hispanic lower expectations, lower resultds en lower chances getting into college, better professions. yes let’s institutionalize the racism as much as we possibly can.
@Kraaken – Yeah, but #2, #16 and #14 respectively in per capita executions. As my dad would have said, “See what happens when you apply yourself, son?”
At least it will make it easy to figure out who not to hire. Talk about a race war.
What else would one expect from the ‘Unholy Triad’; Texas, Florida and Arizona?