By Darren Smith, Weekend Contributor
As an example of the perils brought forth in countries having two legal systems, Christian men who intend to divorce their Christian spouse in Jordan receive significant leverage over their wives who remain within their faith.
Under Article 172 of Jordan’s personal status law, a Muslim man automatically receives custody of children aged seven and above when divorcing a Christian woman. This statutory provision provides a husband an attractive advantage in conversion to gain custody where he otherwise could receive an unfavorable determination based upon mitigating factors, such as showing the interests of the children might be better served if they remained within the custody of their mother.
According to investigative reporter Nadine Nimri who penned several publications relating to discrepancies in the legal statuses between Muslim and Christian parents before the law. Jordanian courts by statute assume that it is within the best interests of the child to remain under the custody of their Muslim fathers. While there are some limited benefits between the various interfaith marriages with regard to children under seven-years of age, Muslim mothers under the law have the option of guardianship for these younger children during divorce proceedings.
There are an estimated 180,000 Christians living in the Kingdom of Jordan, which is otherwise ninety-five percent Muslim.
This discrepancy provides the father in a Christian family to wield significant leverage over his wife when the probability of divorce arrives. By converting to Islam, the husband is able to place the weight of the law into his favor simply for the professed conversion despite its legitimacy.
The problem is not limited to child custody. Under Article 281 of Jordan’s personal status law [Arabic], Muslims can only receive inheritance from other Muslims. Should the husband then die after conversion or if the marriage was between the two religions, the Christian spouse and other Christian heirs would receive no inheritance.
For some women, much of these legal handicaps or barriers might be removed upon her subsequent conversion but since their Christian identity is integral to her society and personal beliefs it can be a tall order to choose between one’s faith and one’s family. Of course, the matter is at least in a de facto sense a one way street where a return to Christianity will follow accusations of apostasy and in some cases worse.
Jordan in many ways maintains recognition and protection of her minority communities but this merit remains incomplete in legal aspects such as family or probate law.
One method could be to remove such legal constraints or sanctuaries relating to religion and to focus instead on applying the civil law to “citizens” rather than “religions”.
By Darren Smith
Source:
The views expressed in this posting are the author’s alone and not those of the blog, the host, or other weekend bloggers. As an open forum, weekend bloggers post independently without pre-approval or review. Content and any displays or art are solely their decision and responsibility.
Zionism was a political movement to establish a Jewish “homeland” in the British Mandate of Palestine. Today there is in that former Mandate more than a homeland namely the state of Israel. Ergo Zionism is dead and there are no more Zionists. Another word is needed for those Jews who want to incorporate all of the area of the former Mandate into Israel. “Irredentists”? “Landrobbers”? Despite all of his denials Netanyahu is an Irredentist/Landrobber.
Dieter, usurpers also comes to mind…along with occupiers or colonists.
Muslims are they that are evil obeying the false god Allah who says he hates the king of kings. Allah claiming to be God is hating himself. God does not do that. Allah talks like Satan
Alright, Jonathan, i’ll bite!
Who/what is Allah?
Will you believe my honest guileless spirit? Allah is Lucifer who fell like lightning becoming Satan. Allah is the one who possessed the winged serpent in the garden. Allah is the one who impersonated Gabriel. Allah is this. 2 Corinthians 11:14: And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
This is Satan in more detail. Satan was Lucifer before he fell.
◄ Ezekiel 28:13 ► 13Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thytabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 14Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so:
thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.15Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Jonathan, Allah simply means God, in Arabic. kinda like God means Dieu in French, or Dios in Spanish.
Christian Arabs call God Allah. Pagan arabs used to call him Allah.
That is all it means, God.
Another entry, karen, fresh off the press:
————————–
The leader of the extremist anti-assimilation group, Lehava, recently renewed his calls to torch churches in occupied Jerusalem, Israeli media sources revealed.
Lehava’s leader, Bentzi Gopstein (pictured left), told the Israeli TV Channel II that Israeli Jews practically prevent Christians from entering Jerusalem, saying that Christian presence in Jerusalem was not welcome.
He also called for “making obstacles towards the expansion of Christianity and Islam in the Palestinian occupied city of Jerusalem,” said the Days of Palestine on its website.
Gopstein has previously “called for a ban on Christmas celebrations in the country and the banishment of Christians, who he referred to as ‘blood-sucking vampires’, from the land,” reported the International Business Times.
Gopstein is the head of the notorious extremist Israeli Jewish group of Lehava, which is responsible for insulting and harassing monks and nuns in the occupied Palestinian holy city.
“Several Israeli groups are active in the occupied holy city regarding Judaization activities, including confiscating Islamic and Christian properties,” said Days of Palestine.
In 2014, a group of mostly Jewish youth attacked the Church of the Multiplication’s outdoor prayer area along the Sea of Galilee, pelting worshippers with stones, destroying a cross and throwing benches into the lake.
WAFA further reports that Israeli settlers, late Saturday night, torched eight Palestinian-owned cars in al-Thawri neighborhood in Jerusalem, according to media sources.
The Israeli radio said that settlers set a car on fire in al-Thawri neighborhood, before the fire extended to seven other cars parked nearby.
It said that Israeli police registered the attack against an “unknown” suspect, although surveillance cameras in the area prove that it was carried out by settlers.
According to the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), there were 369 attacks by Israeli settlers against Palestinians from January 2015 to July 27, averaging more than 12 each week.
According to an October 2013 UN report:
“[…] Since 2009 the number of settler-related incidents resulting in casualties has more than doubled, and the number of casualties caused by settlers has increased by 30 percent; while the number of settler-related incidents resulting in property damage has more than tripled, and the number of trees destroyed or damaged has increased almost four-fold.”
The report added:
“From January to August 2013, compared to the same period in 2012, the number of casualties caused by Israeli security forces increased more than four-fold, as security forces intervene in settler attacks or resulting clashes between settlers and Palestinians to disperse Palestinians, rather than to protect them from attacks by settlers.”
The original source of this article is International Middle East Media Center
Copyright © International Middle East Media Center, International Middle East Media Center, 2016
It is obvious that Mr. Turley knows nothing about marriage in Israel or ignores it. There is no civil,marriage in Israel and every religion is authorized to impose its own laws. As a result there is a very large number of citizens which cannot legally marry.
Every Soviet Jew who has “no religion” has a marriage problem in Israel. That is a large number of people.
Here is a case which I witnessed. One of my research assistants, an Israeli, wanted to marry an American woman here in the USA. No problem if he had remained here. However his bride was not Jewish. She converted here even though neither he nor she were practicing Jews. When I asked him why she had converted to Judaism he told me that their US marriage would have been invalid in Israel.
Louis Farrakhan Agrees With Trump Plan to Limit Muslims Entering U.S.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/15/opinion/irans-oppressed-christians.html?_r=0
I raise you one, karen, from a so-called “”the only democracy in the ME””
I noticed you failed to answer any of my points… as usual.
By the way, Prof Turley, please, please please, allow a debate between me and karen to, once for all, finish this back and forth. Whatever topic of her choosing…which, based on precedent, will be shariah law or Islam …
I’ll let her set the rules, the only thing I ask is for one to support any argument one makes.
—————————
“”Rarely has my email inbox come under great attack than in the run-up to Pope Francis’ visit. Israel’s multiple lobbyists have donned the mantle of Christian saviors. They highlight the safe haven Israel offers the Middle East’s – rather than “Arab”– Christians in contrast to their Muslim tormentors. Fleeing “persecution,” as one email put it, Palestine’s Christian population, they say, has fallen from 10 percent to 2 percent. Palestine’s Muslim masters pursue a program of Sharia-ization in the West Bank as well as Gaza, and the little Christian town of Bethlehem is now a Muslim morass.
What they do not say is that Israel’s population of native Christians has fallen by roughly the same amount. From 8% in 1947 in all of mandatory Palestine, it numbered 4% in 1948, and is now less than two percent today. The reasons for the decline are largely the same. Jewish, as Muslim, birth-rates are much higher. More importantly, while many Palestinians long to escape the yoke of occupation, Christian-led administrations from Beirut to Bueno Aires, prioritize Christian applicants over Muslim ones.
“Very few Christians are appointed to senior positions by the PA”, says one briefing, “in what is perceived as routine discrimination.” In fact, the PA’s record is far better than Israel’s. The president’s spokesman, Nabil Abu Rudeineh, is a Christian. So are two cabinet members, for Finance and Tourism, and two members of the PLO’s executive committee. The deputy speaker of the Palestinian National Council, Qonstantin Qurmush, is a priest. Christians abound on boards of banks and chambers of commerce, and head its largest company, CCC. Despite their falling numbers, nine municipalities, including Ramallah and Bethlehem, stipulate their council should have a Christian majority and a Christian mayor. Christmas and Easter are official Palestinian holidays. President Abbas attends three Christmases (the Greek Orthodox, Catholic and Armenian) in Bethlehem and would celebrate Easter in Jerusalem, if Israel let him in. On St. George’s Day, Muslims join Christians to commemorate his martyrdom at his shrine in al-Khadr, near Bethlehem.
By contrast, in its 66 years, Israel has had no Christian presidential spokesman, government minister, or bank chairman. Where Palestine has eight Christians in its parliament, Israel has two. Where Palestine has at least five ambassadors, including to London and Berlin, Israel has none (although its deputy ambassador to Norway is Christian). The Knesset bans Christmas trees which sprout all over Palestine from public display on its premises. Israel’s prime minister does not go to Church for Christmas, and in his first term in the late 1990s aroused Christian ire by backing construction of a mosque next to Nazareth’s Basilica of Annunciation, while his Palestinian counterpart, Yasser Arafat opposed it.
For sure, some Palestinian movements claiming to represent the downtrodden deride the outsized role that Christians and Western powers wield over their economy and politics. In the early days of Hamas rule in Gaza, some militants firebombed a church and attacked its worshipers uncannily close to a police station. But the Islamists have since clamped down on their own; their prime minister, Ismail Haniya, pointedly attended church to honor a local Christian politician.
Israel does give its Christians native citizenship, but when its leaders endlessly trumpet their status as a Jewish state, many feel they have second class status. They are not spared strip-searches at Israel’s airports. Exacerbating Christian anxieties,hate-graffiti – such as “Mary is a prostitute” – is daubed on church doors, and increasingly rife. Priests in Jerusalem say spitting on their habits has become well – a habit. The country’s most prominent Christian politician, Azmi Bishara, was hounded out of Israel amid cries of treachery after he dared to suggest that Israel should be a state for all its citizens. Ameer Makhul, founder of the Haifa-based umbrella group of NGOs, Ittijah, is in jail for spying for Lebanon’s Shia group, Hezbollah. Nervously, Christians in Israel as elsewhere in a region sunk in rampant religious nationalism look for surer climes.
As they finalize plans for Pope Francis’ visit, there’s something slightly comical about both sides claiming Jesus as their own. Israel hails him as a Jew, the PLO proclaims him Palestinian. Neither yet dare to muse that he might have been both. Palestine is preparing to greet the Pope with hordes of well-wishers, Muslims and Christian alike, while Israel – less sure that Jews might not price-tag his convoy – is preparing to close the streets.
So before those Israel lobbies send me another email celebrating Israel’s integration of Christians and Palestinian persecution of them, perhaps they might take a leaf out of the Gospel. “First cast the log out of your own eye, that you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s.” Or for those who find it hard to take non-Jewish scriptures seriously, try Proverbs – “Deceive not with thy lips.”
Nicolas Pelham is a correspondent for The Economist based in Jerusalem. He has been based in Cairo, Rabat and Baghdad and is the author of A New Muslim Order (2008) and co-author of A History of the Middle East (2010). “”
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.590027
Jesus who is forgiving merciful and kind long suffering is not in it. Religions are godless oppressing people with the bible calling it good having people think giving death to sexuality names is good. I defend them. Devils curse at me and want me to die. Jesus did not cruse at people wanting them to die. God made the nude form. People who claim his name want people to look narrowly upon it. God who made it would not do that. Defiled religious minds run hand in hand with the state. Jesus is freedom and life working through a person
States and religions run hand in hand. In America, the religion is secularism.
Jesus whom is forgiving merciful and kind long suffering is not in it. Religions are godless oppressing people with the bible calling it good having people think giving death to sexuality names is good. I defend them. Devils curse at me and want me to die. Jesus did not cruse at people wanting them to die. God made the nude form. People who claim his name want people to look narrowly upon it. God who made it would not do that. Defiled religious minds run hand in hand with the state. Jesus is freedom and life working through a person.
Please discard the previous post.
Today is “”Correct karen day (every other day actually)””
Karen S
1, January 10, 2016 at 11:51 am
Yet another tragic example of the persecution of other faiths under Islamic rule, and the quality of women.
When was the last time anyone of a different faith was prosecuted in…Eenie meenie miney mo… Iran?
What is the country where currently people, including elected government officials are calling for the persecution of fellow Americans based on their faith?
And where is it that Christians attack the law and constitution for giving “natural rights”to homosexuals?
Yes, the United States of America.
“Those who would renegotiate the boundaries between church and state must therefore answer a difficult question: why would we trade a system that has served us so well for one that has served others so poorly?” Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O’Conner on the Ten Commandments ruling, June 27, 2005
In 1773, the Rev. Isaac Backus , the most prominent Baptist minister in New England, observed that when “church and state are separate, the effects are happy, and they do not at all interfere with each other: but where they have been confounded together, no tongue nor pen can fully describe the mischiefs that have ensued.”
1. How often does anyone follow the Old Testament in the West, a predominantly Christian region. Burned a bull on Sunday? Stoned anyone? We occasionally see cultists like fundamentalist Mormons from Yearning for Zion who practice polygamy and forced child marriages, and they get arrested.
How often does anyone follow shariah law in the West? Less often than other religious laws, biblical, Judaic, mormon, Amish…? More?
Don’t we think that had Biblical law been implemented here, that women would be subject to these rules (which is what Michelle Bachman urges…):
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing.
Titus 2:4-5
Teach the young women to be … obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.
1 Peter 3:1
Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands.
2. The New Testament replaced the Old Testament
Why do people inevitably proclaim that Christianity is just as bad each and every solitary time a Muslim theocracy murders gay people, take children away from Christian women, lash women for meeting with an uncle without her father’s permission, stone people, etc, etc, etc or engage in terrorism in the name of extremist Islam.
Because whenever the Lord’Resistance army, a Christian army, kidnaps children, maim civilians, rapes young girl…or Israel, a Jewish state massacres civilians…or gays are lynched in Uganda, a christian country, spurred by a law sponsored by… yes, American evangelists with tax exempt money… or American bible toting terrorists conduct mass shootings… or a US president starts an illegal war based on a religious premise…or American army generals go to jihad spurred by their Christian faith… you and your lot claim that Islam is worse!
Which is a lie, obviously, because the Iraq war alone, conducted on so called Christian principles, claimed more lives Islam has ever claimed.
More rapes have been committed in history based on biblical claims than Quranic claims…
More people have been enslaved and mistreated in history based on biblical claims (yes, the new testament) than quranic claims.
By the time women obtained the right to vote in the US, Muslim women had already the vote in many places.
In order for it to be considered just as bad, Christianity would have to have people following the Old Testament, stoning people, everywhere that it is a majority faith.
What happened in the US? What is the number one cause of death for pregnant women? Murder by their partner.
Uganda, stoning and lynching for homosexuality.
Here, 1100 people murdered by police officers in 2015
How many people were murdered by our bombs, drones, weapons of any kind around the globe?
Imprisoned more people currently than the population of many countries?
We don’t stone people anymore, we still murder them, just more efficiently.
In Mexico, a Christian country, women are murdered at a rate unmatched anywhere
Same as in El Salvador, a Christian country
What about the Rwandan genocide
And in Serbia?
And in order to see the deception present in karen’s arguments, one must notice that she is creating an arbitrary standard for Christianity by splitting the old testament from the new testament.
It is a typical islamophobic argument, one taught in those circles, as addressed quite well here :
When we published articles showcasing the violence of the Bible–especially after our article about“the Bible’s prescriptive, open-ended, and universal commandments to wage holy war and enslave infidels”–pro-Christian elements were quick to throw the Old Testament (and their Jewish comrades) under the bus: The God of the Old Testament was a god of war, whereas the New Testament is a god of love.
In order to prove their claim against Islam, the anti-Muslim ideologues must prove the “uniqueness” of the Quran’s violence. Certainly, this is Robert Spencer’s clear-as-daylight argument on p.19 of his book The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades):
The Qur’an is unique among the sacred writings of the world in counseling its adherents to make war against unbelievers.
Short of proving the uniqueness of the Quran’s violence, Spencer et al. have failed in what they set out to do. If it can only be proved that the Quran is only as violent as the Tanakh (or the Torah)–or that Islam is just as violent as Judaism–then what big deal is this? If Spencer wants to fear-monger about Islam, and if–using the same standards–it can be proven that Judaism is just as violent as Islam (nay, more violent)–then will Spencer also fear-monger about Judaism? Can we expect aJewWatch.com website coming soon?
In fact, such a site already exists, and it looks like JihadWatch, just against Jews instead of Muslims. Indeed, if the same conclusions about Islam were applied to Judaism, then all this would be exposed for what it really is: wholesale bigotry. But it is much easier to get away with bigotry against Muslims than it is against Jews.
How can Robert Spencer hide behind the “But That’s Just the Old Testament!” Defense when his comrade-in-arms is Jewish? Pamela Geller of the Atlas Shrugs blog is a partner in crime with Spencer and company. Clearly, the anti-Muslim Christian right is linked at the hip with Zionist Jews in their shared hatred of Muslims. Why is one side of this unholy alliance willing to throw the other under the bus, and why is the other side ominously quiet when they hear arguments such as “But That’s Just the Old Testament”?
What apologists do not realize is that in their rush to proclaim that Christianity is just as bad, they appear to be defending the very people who kill gays, take children away from Christian women, beat women for seeing their uncle without permission, etc. What in the world are you defending? Why soften criticism that is justly earned?
Nope, that is is not the aim, those who defend islam against islamophobes like you are those who defend islam against islamic extremists. Matter of fact, the only ones to claim that those islamic extremists represent islam are themselves and the islamophobes. When the great majority of Muslims deny them an islamic status, why would a non-muslim give it to them? I never would give an abortionist murderer the status of a christian, why would you give islamic status to a muslim murderer? When the letter to Baghdadi, signed by countless recognized islamic scholars tells us that what they do is unislamic, why would you give them that distinction? Unless they suit your purpose that is.
On the other hand, one cannot join a thread here that features a Christian or Jew without it turning very quickly against Muslims, a charge which is always led by you.
Today is “”Correct karen day (every other day actually)””
Karen S
1, January 10, 2016 at 11:51 am
Yet another tragic example of the persecution of other faiths under Islamic rule, and the quality of women.
When was the last time anyone of a different faith was prosecuted in…Eenie meenie miney mo… Iran?
What is the country where currently people, including elected government officials are calling for the persecution of fellow Americans based on their faith?
And where is it that Christians attack the law and constitution for giving “natural rights”to homosexuals?
Yes, the United States of America.
“Those who would renegotiate the boundaries between church and state must therefore answer a difficult question: why would we trade a system that has served us so well for one that has served others so poorly?” Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O’Conner on the Ten Commandments ruling, June 27, 2005
In 1773, the Rev. Isaac Backus , the most prominent Baptist minister in New England, observed that when “church and state are separate, the effects are happy, and they do not at all interfere with each other: but where they have been confounded together, no tongue nor pen can fully describe the mischiefs that have ensued.”
1. How often does anyone follow the Old Testament in the West, a predominantly Christian region. Burned a bull on Sunday? Stoned anyone? We occasionally see cultists like fundamentalist Mormons from Yearning for Zion who practice polygamy and forced child marriages, and they get arrested.
How often does anyone follow shariah law in the West? Less often than other religious laws, biblical, Judaic, mormon, Amish…? More?
Don’t we think that had Biblical law been implemented here, that women would be subject to these rules (which is what Michelle Bachman urges…):
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing.
Titus 2:4-5
Teach the young women to be … obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.
1 Peter 3:1
Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands.
2. The New Testament replaced the Old Testament
Why do people inevitably proclaim that Christianity is just as bad each and every solitary time a Muslim theocracy murders gay people, take children away from Christian women, lash women for meeting with an uncle without her father’s permission, stone people, etc, etc, etc or engage in terrorism in the name of extremist Islam.
<Because whenever the Lord'Resistance army, a Christian army, kidnaps children, maim civilians, rapes young girl…or Israel, a Jewish state massacres civilians…or gays are lynched in Uganda, a christian country, spurred by a law sponsored by… yes, American evangelists with tax exempt money… or American bible toting terrorists conduct mass shootings… or a US president starts an illegal war based on a religious premise…or American army generals go to jihad spurred by their Christian faith… you and your lot claim that Islam is worse!
Which is a lie, obviously, because the Iraq war alone, conducted on so called Christian principles, claimed more lives Islam has ever claimed.
More rapes have been committed in history based on bibical claims than Quranic claims…
More people have been enslaved and mistreated in history based on biblical claims (yes, the new testament) than quranic claims.
By the time women obtained the right to vote in the US, Muslim women had already the vote in many places.
In order for it to be considered just as bad, Christianity would have to have people following the Old Testament, stoning people, everywhere that it is a majority faith.
<What happened in the US? What is the number cause of death for pregnant women? Murder by their partner.
Uganda, stoning and lynching for homosexuality.
1100 people murdered by police officers in 2015
How many people were murdered by our bombs, drones, weapons of any kind around the globe?
Imprisoned more people currently than the population of many countries.
We don't stone people anymore, we still murder them, just more efficiently.
In Mexico, a Christian country, women are murdered at a rate unmatched anywhere
Same as in El Salvador, a Christian country
What about the Rwandan genocide
And in Serbia?
And in order to see the deception present in karen’s arguments, one must notice that she is creating an arbitrary standard for Christianity by splitting the old testament from the new testament.
It is a typical islamophobic argument, one taught in those circles, as addressed quite well here :
When we published articles showcasing the violence of the Bible–especially after our article about“the Bible’s prescriptive, open-ended, and universal commandments to wage holy war and enslave infidels”–pro-Christian elements were quick to throw the Old Testament (and their Jewish comrades) under the bus: The God of the Old Testament was a god of war, whereas the New Testament is a god of love.
In order to prove their claim against Islam, the anti-Muslim ideologues must prove the “uniqueness” of the Quran’s violence. Certainly, this is Robert Spencer’s clear-as-daylight argument on p.19 of his book The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades):
The Qur’an is unique among the sacred writings of the world in counseling its adherents to make war against unbelievers.
Short of proving the uniqueness of the Quran’s violence, Spencer et al. have failed in what they set out to do. If it can only be proved that the Quran is only as violent as the Tanakh (or the Torah)–or that Islam is just as violent as Judaism–then what big deal is this? If Spencer wants to fear-monger about Islam, and if–using the same standards–it can be proven that Judaism is just as violent as Islam (nay, more violent)–then will Spencer also fear-monger about Judaism? Can we expect aJewWatch.com website coming soon?
In fact, such a site already exists, and it looks like JihadWatch, just against Jews instead of Muslims. Indeed, if the same conclusions about Islam were applied to Judaism, then all this would be exposed for what it really is: wholesale bigotry. But it is much easier to get away with bigotry against Muslims than it is against Jews.
How can Robert Spencer hide behind the “But That’s Just the Old Testament!” Defense when his comrade-in-arms is Jewish? Pamela Geller of the Atlas Shrugs blog is a partner in crime with Spencer and company. Clearly, the anti-Muslim Christian right is linked at the hip with Zionist Jews in their shared hatred of Muslims. Why is one side of this unholy alliance willing to throw the other under the bus, and why is the other side ominously quiet when they hear arguments such as “But That’s Just the Old Testament”?
What apologists do not realize is that in their rush to proclaim that Christianity is just as bad, they appear to be defending the very people who kill gays, take children away from Christian women, beat women for seeing their uncle without permission, etc. What in the world are you defending? Why soften criticism that is justly earned?
Nope, that is is not the aim, those who defend islam against islamophobes like you are those who defend islam against islamic extremists. Matter of fact, the only ones to claim that those islamic extremists represent islam are themselves and the islamophobes. When the great majority of Muslims deny them an islamic status, why would a non-muslim give it to them? I never would give an abortionist murderer the status of a christian, why would you give islamic status to a muslim murderer? When the letter to Baghdadi, signed by countless recognized islamic scholars tells us that what they do is unislamic, why would you give them that distinction? Unless they suit your purpose that is.
Plus there was the extermination of the Aborigines in Australia. No one’s a sweetheart in history by today’s standards.
The past happened, and it’s important, but I don’t judge our past by modern standards. I just count my lucky stars that I didn’t live back then. It would be interesting to visit but wouldn’t want to live there. No wonder children’s fairy tales were traditionally so dark and violent. You were lucky to live until you were 30.
Totally agree. Radiolab did a show a while back about the history of the British in Kenya. Horrific torture, slaughter and abuse, all coming to light now because of their version of FOIA.
The Spanish, Dutch and Portuguese were no better. And don’t get me started on Denmark. It is indeed all relative. Thanks.
PhillyT:
“At the same time I know a lot of very modern very peaceful muslims who are wonderful people. Same with christians actually. But the violent extremists are a big problem, and with bombs, viruses, nuclear waste, etc. available in addition to the millions and millions of lethal weapons sold every year, it is something that needs to get solved quickly.”
I agree. I’ve known many lovely Muslim people. I’ve been to Muslim events, visited with Muslim women friends while they bundled up and prayed, have a Farsi and an Egyptian nickname, know numerous phrases in Farsi and Arabic. I have zero problem with modern Muslims. They certainly do not want the extremism from which they fled to infect the West. The people most against extremism would be those who survived it.
Yes, we do have the good, the bad, and the ugly in our history. What I urge people to remember, however, is not to judge our history anachronistically. At the same time that we had slavery, the Dutch and the Portuguese were some of the world’s most prolific slavers. Charles Dickens was writing about the abject misery of the poor in Great Britain. The Royal Navy kidnapped men on their way home to work to press them, leaving their families to starve.
It’s all relative.
Philly T:
The Inquisition happened hundreds of years ago. It is anachronistic to apply today’s values and mores to judge what occurred hundreds of years ago. There was also slavery, plague, children were executed for theft, people starved in the hedgerows, women had very little rights, forced arranged marriages, piracy, said pirates were executed by tying them to a stake at low tide for them to slowly drown as the tide came in and their bodies were left until the crows and crabs shredded them from the poles. There were also witch burnings hundreds of years ago.
Moral relativity is false logic, especially when you compare events from hundreds of years ago. True, there are occasional cultists, as I’ve mentioned, and I’ve heard of maybe a couple or several attacks on abortion clinics that were perpetrated by Christian extremists, although one does not have to be religious to oppose abortion. I have also never heard any quote from McVeigh stating that he committed domestic terrorism because of any Christian faith. I thought he was anti-government. But, for the sake of argument, even if I give that to you, that’s one single person.
How does a couple of abortion attacks, which are prosecuted, in any way compare with the violence sweeping the globe in the name of Islam? The extremism that is the norm in every single Muslim theocracy, in which gay men are executed, insulting the Qu’ran or the Prophet is a death sentence, etc?
There is NO COMPARISON. I’ve agreed with you that there is plenty of violence in the Old Testament, such as Cain being cast out by God because he murdered his own brother. But the New Testament replaces the Old (or is fulfilled, pick your semantics.) Regardless, if Christians were just as bad as extremist Muslims, then that infamous “art show” in which they displayed a crucifix in a jar of piss would have been blown up. Madonna’s “Like a Prayer” video would have caused world wide riots. That facts are just not there to support this.
Oh, and as for people engraving religious quotes on rifles – most people pray when they are faced with a life or death situation, whether they are Christian, Jew, Muslim, or Hindu. A soldier going off to Vietnam prayed really hard that he would make it home in one piece. He was not in a Holy War. He was praying for guidance, safety, and to hold on to his sanity. A Christian gun manufacturer engraving a religious phrase onto rifles because they believe we are on the right and just side does not mean that wars fought with such rifles are fought because our religion forces us to war with non believers.
I do not believe the facts agree with you.