Iran this month reminded the world that it remains entirely committed to the medieval Sharia legal system. Over 30 college students participated in a graduation party but were arrested by Iranian police for participating in a mixed gender party. Each of the students was given 99 lashes under the Islamic law.
The outrageous punishment was carried out in Qazvin, about 90 miles northwest of the capital. This was the triumph of Qazvin prosecutor Esmail Sadeghi Niaraki who described the women as “half naked” — a common expression for failing to wear Islamic coverings, scarves and long coats. Niaraki described the shocking scene of kids “dancing and jubilating.” So, of course, Sharia justice demanded that the kids be flogged in the name of Islamic morality.
Niaraki, who is completely clueless about the lunacy of this actions and the Sharia legal system as a whole, simply said “We hope this will be a lesson for those who break Islamic norms in private places.” My only hope (as remote as it might be seen for a revolution) is that Niaraki and his aides will someday be arrested for their reign of religious terror. Until then, thugs like Niaraki will continue to count the whipping of young people as one of his professional accomplishments.
Paul
As is usual, you post stuff that has nothing to do with the post of which you address. Was ice cream invented yet, back then?
issac – you should remember that ice cream was invented during the Roman Empire.
David
His one statement observing that the two work best when distant from each other does not negate the existence of the two elements of that new society, morality which at that time came almost exclusively from religious upbringing and self rule which was new, agitated, and sometimes chaotic. The fact that the new America came from scorning the experience of Great Britain through a jealousy of that authority is the force that created and sustains a free country, something akin to the never ending revolution that some philosophers see as the safeguard to freedom. De Tocqueville did argue that the workings of a country politically should be distant from the foundations of a country’s citizens’ religious beliefs. The Constitution kind of says the same thing.
As usual you cherry pick to support your argument. But then who doesn’t. My remarks were general based on a statement of generalities made by Alexis de Tocqueville a long time ago. The thought was not created by de Tocqueville. Aristotle and Plato tossed the same ingredients, religion and self rule or politics, about, a couple thousand years before.
Context does matter David. We have in the West the most advanced, free, and morally alive societies. The West is where the self questions the self and the revolution is the most alive. The West is humanity most alive and striving. This is possible due to the separation of religion and politics. In those countries where religion and politics are intertwined, we find the most despicable and perverse ruling ‘classes’. In those countries where religion is politics humanity is dying and individuals are punished and sometimes killed for striving to be free.
This could go on forever.
issac – you realize that when de Tocqueville was writing states still had state religions? When he wrote the Constitution only covered the Feds, not the states.
Nicely done David. Context matters.
issac, I think you misunderstand Alexis de Tocqueville. For example, he said, “… in America, religion is the road to knowledge, and the observance of divine laws leads man to civil freedom.”
He also wrote, “… in the moral world everything is classed, adapted, decided, and foreseen; in the political world world everything is agitated, uncertain, and disputed: in the one is a passive, though a voluntary, obedience; in the other an independence scornful of experience and jealous of authority. These two tendencies, apparently so discrepant, are far from conflicting; they advance together, and mutually support each other. … Religion is no less the companion of liberty in all its battles and its triumphs; the cradle of its infancy, and the divine source of its claims. The safeguard of morality is religion, and morality is the best security of law and the surest pledge of freedom.”
Alexis de Tocqueville never would argue that “the workings of the country as a whole should not be influenced by the various religions.”
If I have not made the point abundantly clear, let me try again. Islam and Civilization are incompatible. Either Civilization must expel Islam or Islam will destroy Civilization.
Alexis de Tocqueville, someone who understood America and Americans better than Americans, wrote that religion and politics work best when they are the furthest removed from each other. Essentially this means that the workings of the country as a whole should not be influenced by the various religions of the disparate groups. At the same time the religions should not be influenced by the government. However, as in the more advanced nations, where secular law dominates, all religions must be subordinate to the protection of human rights as determined under that secular law.
Any religion that desires and acts to dominate the rights of humans, is perverse and unholy. Any religion that advocates and/or attempts to influence to any degree the decisions made under secular law is perverse and must be contained. What one believes regarding this or that fairy tale and whatever assistance one receives in following the natural laws of mankind is separate and subordinate to the natural laws of mankind. This includes: Christianity, Islam, Judaism, whatever.
The most perverse, by size, religion at the moment is Islam. This is not to say that Islam is completely perverse, regardless of the nonsense of its fairy stories. Islam in America is where it should be, contained in the secular world. If and when Islam diminishes the rights as laid forth by the Constitution and Laws of the Day and the Land, it must be stopped. There is a connection between reducing women to levels seen as ‘traditional’ and the floggings in Iran.
America is moving away from ‘tradition’ as an excuse for perversion. As it trips and stumbles along its path to equality for all and potential for all, one thing stands above the religious inspired nations; the people and not some perverted pedophile determine what is right, what is just, and what shall be, even if that results in the election of an imbecile such as Trump or a sleaze bag such as Clinton. The adjectives are interchangeable.
Iran is an example of extreme religious perversion and a woeful lack of humanity, yet where are the Muslim voices crying out for justice. Or, do they feel that this is justice, given the few areas where Islam has excelled. Christianity fixed itself. Almost all countries where Christianity originated and relished in its perversions as well as its excellence have tamed their beasts. Perhaps Islam, being 700 years younger is simply suffering the same transitional pains. There doesn’t seem to be much in the way of enlightenment dueling doctrine, just doctrine dueling doctrine. It seems that Islam is the best tool that thugs have to create chaos and then power out of that chaos. At least when the West does it, it is seen as what it really is, and when seen a labeled open for discussion and change. Islam seems to be regressing further in the direction of perversion. Hopefully Iran will see another revolution and this time the perverts will receive the lash.
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Aren’t things stupid enough already? That will teach them how important god is, right?
“…My only hope (as remote as it might be seen for a revolution) is that Niaraki and his aides will someday be arrested for their reign of religious terror….”
Just like in the US tens of thousands of cops, and politicians should be arrested for their terroristic reigns of terror known as the “war on drugs” and also their war on guns. We should not stand for the trampling of any of our rights in any country.
Oh, my God, those poor young people. 99 lashes can be a death sentence, and are usually not meted out all at once. At the very least, depending on the type of whip, they can be flayed and suffer permanent nerve and soft tissue damage.
What kind of monster does this kind of thing?
Ollie right – loss of individual rights leads to dictatorships, and lack of education allows dictatorships to languish in the Dark Ages. A helpless, ignorant people get whipped for dancing.
I have read about a rising pro-Western attitude among Persian young people. They will either prevail or get crushed. I hope they prevail and move their country into the 21st century…or at least the 20th.
Rarely agree with you, Olly, but your steps ring true. Step Two however can be overcome, if people enlighten up.
If not, issac’s steps will continue.
Step One: Believe that we all are created with equal unalienable rights.
Step Two: Believe that it will always be in our nature to deny step one.
Step Three: Establish a government who’s purpose is to secure step one.
Step Four: Establish a system of education that teaches that we the people create step three; that those we elect to government have the nature described in step two; and that it is our responsibility to remove from office anyone that threatens step one.
Step one: believe that there is ONLY one of something
Step two: believe that this ONLY one is absolutely ALL powerful and the ONLY power
Step three: believe that your approach is the ONLY TRUE connection to this, the ONLY power
Step four: put up with those that don’t believe as you do, philosophize the issues away, and wait until the day comes when EVERYBODY will believe as you do, or make it happen on your watch
Yes. According to US custom, torturing people is good only if they were born in other countries, not if they were born in the torturers country.
Religion is the opiate of the people. Don’t blame one, blame em all. If you are going to imbibe don’t use needles and snort it if you have to. Remember that Christ was born on Christmas Day and Allah was born on July 4th. The two are poles apart and neither lived in Poland.
The religion of peace strikes again.
Reblogged this on Truth Troubles: Why people hate the truths' of the real world.