Nice has added its famous beaches to the list of resort areas where the burkini is banned. Like the ban on the veil, it is hard to see how such bans are not openly discriminatory towards Muslims. I fail to understand the rationale for such a ban, particularly when many people now adopt full covering (especially for child) to protect against the damaging sun rays.
The ban prohibits apparel that “overtly manifests adherence to a religion at a time when France and places of worship are the target of terrorist attacks.” That is a rather bizarre rationale. Nice is defending religion by banning religious-based clothing? The reference to the recent attacks seems to struggle to show that this move is a visceral, retaliatory action taken against an entire class of people based on their religion.
There are now 15 towns that have adopted the discriminatory policy, including film festival host-city Cannes.
Nice’s deputy mayor Christian Estrosi did not improve that appearance with his letter to Prime Minister Manuel Valls on Tuesday that “hiding the face or wearing a full-body costume to go to the beach is not in keeping with our ideal of social relations.” Since when does your “ideal of social relations” trump deep-seated religious beliefs?
What do you think?
@squeek
you are so damn funny. really! move over Dave Chappelle!
So I picked up a CD at the library book sale — CD for $1.00 – I found one by a Japanese artist and a compilation called “arabian travels” Here’s one of the artists
@squeek
Interesting for sure. Hope these guys don’t have a fatwah against them – you know, for putting a woman on the cover – sharia law prohibits depicting animals or humans. Not sure about planets.
I think as long as one of them is married to her it is OK. I here that is how they do it at the Muslim Bordellos. There is an Imam (who maybe doubles as the piano player?) who marries them to the hooker, and then divorces them when they are through. Which is about 38 seconds later.
But, speaking of fantastic music and girls, check this out from a 1960’s garage band in the D.C. area:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCRYA6ck3x0
Wiki says they were once known as The Reekers, and were hugely popular around D.C., and even edged out the Beatles once.
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
Well, speaking of cultural adaptation, I have been listening to like Arabian Death Metal from a group called “Narjahanam.” Darn, but these guys can immigrate here any time they want!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j46Piu5e8pM
Here’s their Facebook “about.”
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
@BFM
Just read your post and am wiping tears of laughter from my eyes. Brilliant!
“And just how is a burkini different than a wet-suit?”
Well, as demonstrated on this blog, wet-suits are worn by almost anyone, even men, while burkini’s are worn by Muslim women.
That ought to tell you something.
Do you think it would help if we renamed burkinis and called them wet-suits?
Maybe we should rename burkinis and call them habits. Thats the ticket – habits. Who could complain about habits.
Well they are French, aren’t they? Not Americans.
I’m a completely secular non-Muslim, non-Christian American and my choice of “modest” swimwear has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with science.
My daughters don’t wear burkinis, of course, but they do wear “modest” swimwear that covers them down to at least their knees (though my youngest at age 8 just chose some colorful swimming bottoms that come to her ankles) and that also covers their arms at least to their elbows. My own swimming bottoms come down to my knees and my swimming top’s sleeves come almost to my elbows.
My daughters and I only need to wear sunscreen on our noses.
The reasons?
#1 I am concerned about potentially estrogen-disrupting chemicals in sunscreen damaging my daughters’ health (and my own health, for that matter) and wearing swimwear that covers the part of our skin most likely to burn eliminates the need for any sunscreen except for on our noses. For a good link regarding endocrine disruptors in sunscreen see the following: http://www.ewg.org/sunscreen/report/the-trouble-with-sunscreen-chemicals/
#2 I am concerned about the environment and what all of the suncreen washing into our lakes and riverways and oceans is doing to it. Not so long ago I read a profoundly saddening article about what sunscreen is doing to coral reefs: http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/10/20/450276158/chemicals-in-sunscreen-are-harming-coral-reefs-says-new-study
#3 In my employment I have dealt with so many sex offenders that I just cannot stand the thought of some creep at the beach looking at my daughters in scanty swimwear (one of my prior cases allegedly involved, in part, a sex offender, a swimming pool, a teenage girl, etc. so no, I am not just being paranoid).
As someone who has reasonable, non-religious reasons for having my daughters (and myself for that matter) wearing longish swimwear, I am absolutely horrified that bigots feel entitled to decree what any woman should wear at the beach. What is next? That my daughters and I will be required to wear only bikinis?
And just how is a burkini different than a wet-suit?
So when the burkini is banned, just what does the language of the law say about long-sleeved swimming shirts or longish swimming bottoms that don’t have a religious basis? Are we going to have to make a choice between burning & wrecking our health with endocrine disruptors vs. not swimming? Does the ban only pertain to a swimsuit that also has headgear attached? Are calf-length swimming bottoms too long? How is anyone who is going to swim in Niece going to be on notice as to what is permitted and what is not?
” What is next? That my daughters and I will be required to wear only bikinis?”
Well, …. do you plan on competing in the Olympics? Do you excel at volley ball?
Isn’t it wonderful how society protects women who are incapable of making basic decisions regarding garments to cover their bodies.
Isaac- You’re right – minus the terror nobody would care about swimwear. And, a lot of French do like the muticultural aspect – as long as French culture has the upper hand. Of course, when the French culture doesn’t have the upper hand anymore then it will be too late anyway.
Oh, and speaking of French swim wear, enjoy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVUwra22e-Q
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
Riesling
My post was blatantly objective spelling out the contradictions and hypocrisies on both sides. The fact of the matter is that this problem of beach wear did not exist before the terrorism began. It has less to do with cultures and traditions than with the visible one line interpretations of single issue people. France is pretty much just as Islamic as it has ever been. Moslems are to the most bigoted, second class citizens. The issue of the moment is not the issue that has existed since the letting go of Algeria. When French-Algerians were blowing up parts of Paris in the late fifties and early sixties, many French and Parisians were sympathetic and many were bigots who regarded Moslems as less than human if not less than French. There is pretty much no post colonial or colonial power that doesn’t suffer from this problem. To some French, their greatest tradition is to be multicultural. To others there is no answer. One aspect of the French that escapes most is that, just as in the US with allegiances to one’s state conflicting with one’s allegiances to one’s country from time to time, France is composed of several nationalities that seem to be ever estranged one from the other. Parisians look down on just about every other region of France to some degree and to those who live and are a cross between Italians, Spanish, German, whatever the most. The culture of France is multi faceted. Things were going fine until the thugs showed up. Now it is an issue of association and associating resorts that depend on tourist income with those that might blow tourists up. It is not good for business. If there were no thugs and Moslem women wanted to swim in all that material, I doubt there would be this outcry, except in Monte Carlo.
Isaac – they’ve fixed it. There is a ban on burkinis. And how you go from there to your war movies reference (gas chambers, I assume) is beyond me. My thought was that perhaps the French have finally realized that their culture and traditions and way of life are worth defending.
Riesling
That you feel that I want to defend the French against any possible accusations of Islamophobia is almost entirely of your mind and has next to nothing to do with what I wrote or meant. Life is complicated sometimes and it is a knee-jerk human reaction to attempt to simplify it by categorizing stuff into this or that and not many variations of this and that. There is anti-semitism, Islamophobia, and other racism and bigotry in France; just as there is here in the US and in most other countries.
There is something to everything I wrote. It is open for discussion and it can be very complicated. A person can feel an affront at watching a Moslem swim in sheets and other material and yet be on the side of that person’s rights to wear what they want while swimming. A person can defend a person’s rights to wear whatever their religion dictates yet be concerned that their business will suffer if the beaches were spotted with such contradictions to the whole point of the beach. It is complicated. If it weren’t complicated it would be easier to fix. There are those that offer simplistic solutions; one comes to mind, but, that’s been done many times before and now they make war movies about it.
@Isaac
You are the kind of person who defends all manner of things that are destructive to civilization, under the rubric of protecting somebody’s alleged “right.” That is, a typical lefty Democrat.
I am not of the opinion that what one wears to a public beach is a matter of “right”, anymore than it is if some freak in San Francisco wants to plop down butt naked in a cafe at lunch time. Although there, I think the city has declared it so. . .Because it is run by typical lefty Democrats.
Frankly, if you had been raised in a different family, I suspect that you would now be one of those Ayn Rand libertarians who are also obsessively concerned with their alleged “rights”, completely out of context of civilization. Just the flip side of the same coin.
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
Girl reporter, I am curious – have you actually read anything written by Ayn Rand, or are you basing your opinion on what others have written about Ayn Rand?
Isaac, I get the feeling that you want to defend the French against any possible accusations of islamohobia, by blaming the burkini-ban on business interests. And then you portray the scarf-wearing Muslim women as typically French, since it is a form of protest against the government. You can think that, if it makes you feel better, but I really don’t think it’s that complicated.
as a woman, I support this ban! 100%! Muslims must assimilate; this “ban” is a measure that help them in it. if Muslim men can handle their women in Western clothes, they will not attack us on beaches!!!!!
There are very nice light weight colorful/designed wetsuits. Just switch. Yes, in some sense, it’s a capitulation but the means satisfies the end. As a male who is now VERY watchful of sun exposure, I wear my equivalent suit all the time on the beach and even in Mexico.
If a woman wants to cover up at the beach, whether it’s a wetsuit, a coverup, or a burkini, it’s nobody’s business.
I agree with banning the veil when the face must be shown, such as when driving if the kind of veil obstructs your view, or taking an ID picture, or for security reasons.
But everyone has the right to decide how much skin they want to show, besides their face, which has security issues.
Good points, well made.
Thankyou
Riesling
The French people I know couldn’t care less, either. However, the tourist dollars come from ‘les etrangers’. The French rarely visit these places: Cannes, Nice, Monaco, etc. The French and their tourist Euros typically go to places less dependent on the tourist dollar. I lived and worked in the area for many years. The government in Nice during the 70’s and 80’s would beat students who protested the flavor of toothpaste. More than once thugs wearing motorcycle helmets rode up in cars, muscled their way through the students, and tossed a molotov cocktail at the restaurant. In the news the story was all about students protesting. The government was reflecting the business sector. Protesting, one of the most quintessential rights of the French was not allowed in Nice, Cannes, Monaco, etc.
There may be an attempt to remain and reinforce a secularization in France, but it is more than a coincidence that these verbotens are happening in these tourist destinations. Recently there have been photos posted of women bathing in sheets on the beaches near Marseille. With the Muslim population of that city, outlawing the burkini would be quite an accomplishment. Most Muslims in France are pretty much Westernized or Frenchified. I would bet that a large proportion of the Muslims in France who are adamant about wearing scarves and other covers are doing so simply because of the fact that the government(s) are against it.
Isaac, the French people I know couldn’t care less if they look bad to the world. And most nudist beaches don’t want clothed people hanging around. Some people say that in 20 years there won’t be any more nude beaches. Most of the enthusiasts are aged 60 and older.
This is NOT swimming in a sheet. The burkinis are actually quite attractive and I might have to shop for one. I have given up going to the beach because I need to completely coverup. I burn very easily and total coverup is essential.