It is often remarkable how ministers facing tough questions on their income or luxury purchases will find a way to explain their lifestyle or secrecy as a biblical command like our prior discussion of televangelists who insisted that they really need private luxury jets. Now Elevation Church Pastor Steven Furtick is insisting that he would love to disclose how much he makes annually but it would be against the will of God.
Furtick, 35, insisted in an interview that disclosing his salary would be unfair to his family and would violate Jesus’ call to be discreet about donations. He then added what he thought was a higher moral ground: “I would never make a decision about how the church’s finances were communicated based on the agenda of a reporter or a newspaper.” Ok, how about just the value of being transparent in the eyes of both God and man.
Furtick recently built a 16,000-square-foot gated estate in Weddington. It is also known that church brings in $500,000 each weekend. How much does Furtick take? Only God knows and that appears that way God and Furtick like it.
Ok, as a retired Anglican clergy, I’ll weigh in. The pastor is dead wrong.
Jesus spoke to the left hand, right hand but not in the way this clown evidently interprets. One hand held a weight, the other the money (goods). Sufficiency was determined by the sense of balance. However, Jesus is conveying that giving should not be so measured but given from the heart not through the “law” or comparison to others.
My income and benefits were always included in the annual budget presented for approval by the congregation. I have seen other pastors being told that they are to be humble and keeping the pay down does that. This is another perversion of the Scriptures. This perversion also does a great disservice to the clergy spouses and children (children—people born into the call). Many PKs are so burned by the toxicity that they refuse affiliation.
The preacher is worth of his wages. A pastor is to be provided for as the unfettered ox on the grainery floor. (Be careful with Paul’s letter to the Corinthians…many construe it as one’s call to ministry is to be without remuneration, but the opposite is true)
This guy is an anomaly, and he does great harm to those who give of themselves in ways expected only of them…not a CEO or other managers/leaders.
Renegade – I go with the theatre saying “Bums in seats” theory of pay. If you draw a bigger audience, then you deserve greater pay. In a mega-church, the pastor has a huge audience (hopefully) and therefore deserves a higher salary. If you start losing ‘bums in seats’ then you lower the salary or fire the pastor or go bankrupt.
This gentleman knows how to raise BIG BUCKS
The all knowing God don’t want Trumps tax returns either, so Trump says…………or in his own mind its the same thing…
LIke the U2 lyrics in Bullet The Blue Sky:
“The God I believe in isn’t short of cash, mister”.
Here is what the church could do with the donations instead of paying the minister:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/12/teens-america-hunger-food-poverty
Boy, god really gets into everything! When he’s not busy fixing fax machines, he’s striking children with cancer, saving others from cancer (playing favorites I guess!), causing natural disasters and finally, hiding the salary of this pastor. Clearly, god is mighty!
P.S. Dear Pastor: Your salary is not a donation! But, carry on!!! god loves a success!!! I’m certain Jesus wouldn’t be overturning the money chambers in your temple. And when he said all the stuff about eye of needles and camels and blessed are the poor–well that’s just a part of the bible i make certain not to take literally.
God hasn’t called him home, so you know he raised at least $8 million…
Davidm
You do see the connection between these charlatans and Trump, don’t you? Double talk, reducing taxes on the rich so they can buy more jets, outrageous hair, lies that outstrip every lie told, including the last one Trump made, etc.
issac wrote: “You do see the connection between these charlatans and Trump, don’t you?”
Actually, no. I think Donald Trump must be the most honest man running for office that I have ever seen in my lifetime. That is what causes him trouble in the media. He has not developed that fake facade that most politicians work hard at creating.
It looks Trump will lose, but I plan to vote for him because he is the best candidate.
Oh, wait, maybe he won’t lose. A CNN poll puts Trump ahead. CNN surely cannot be wrong.
“Trump tops Clinton 45% to 43% in the new survey, with Libertarian Gary Johnson standing at 7% among likely voters in this poll and the Green Party’s Jill Stein at just 2%.”
http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/06/_politics-zone-injection/trump-vs-clinton-presidential-polls-election-2016/
Davidm
Trump is a pathological lier. Perhaps that gives him a pass, being a mental deficiency and all. Trump lies when it would be to his advantage to tell the truth. He is the biggest scam artist of all time. He takes $150,000 of a charitable donation by a giver, repackages it under his name and then takes the credit for it. Then he charges $274,000 for the fund to use his house in Florida. The guy is beyond Clinton, anybody, when it comes to dishonesty.
Your statement must be in the style of some other here, saying outrageous things, just to get a response. Well, here’s your response, and I’ll be nice, ‘You have got to be joking; that’s the only plausible explanation for your words.’
issac – who is the Democrat who charges rent to the govt for the guest house his Secret Service detail is living in?
Third person projection; interesting. Either that or you have unintentionally transposed “Clinton” and “Trump”.
Most honest man? Here’s the best article yet on Trump.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-unbearable-stench-of-trumps-bs/2016/08/04/aa5d2798-5a6e-11e6-831d-0324760ca856_story.html?utm_term=.ca48d795f157
One must read this article. The author hits the nail right on the carefully coiffed head. Trump is mentally deranged. He simply cannot help himself. The BS flows without a valve. There is no on off switch. The proof of this is that if there was an on and off switch and Trump wasn’t an imbecile, he would be leading Clinton by 20 points. What some people with their delusions see at first glance is a swagger and a brash affront to the system. Unfortunately that is as far as they get. Spending a moment longer listening to this mentally deranged phenomenon would scare the bejesus out of any sane person. Trump is a scary barometer of how many mindless people there are in America. There is lying. Then there is trying to get out of it which illustrates a degree of understanding in the liar of the offense. Then there is admitting it and trying to get past it. With Trump when he lies, no one cares anymore because he has worn out the event. When called on it he simply increases the lies until it is blatantly apparent that there is no there there, just a vacant lot.
issac – the Democrats are panicked because Hillary has outspent Trump 10:1 and they are still tied. Now the health issue the Republicans have been talking about is an issue that has to be dealt with.
That was an extremely weak article for proving lying or B.S. It made the article itself look like B.S. Such evidence would never stand up in a court of law.
Yawn.
The libs used to have Bush Derangement Syndrome; Now the libs can;t talk about anything other than Trump.
I have yet to see a lib posting here once mention the fact that Hillary is a liar and probably a thief (theft of service – and millions into her own pocket).
No matter what happens in the election, I have lost a lot of respect for libs.
Steve
There is nothing else to worry about but Trump. Clinton may be a scumbag but she is a known quantity with more positive attributes than negative. Trump is mentally deranged, a pathological liar, his best title is BS artist. Regardless of Clinton and the status quo, we are far less worse off with the devil we know than this insane person who doesn’t know the difference between evil and good. Trump is a sociopath who has absolutely no idea of right versus wrong. Trump is dictator material. He doesn’t know how things work because he is not interested. This is outside of the argument between left and right, libs and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans. This is a question of taking America back two to three generations through the chaos that is Trump. Trump can’t be trusted. Trump should not even trust Trump. How else would you explain him shooting himself in the foot time after time when there is no need, when a normal approach would win him support. A cardboard cutout of Clinton would be better than Trump. A cardboard cutout of Trump would be better than Trump. People have paid millions to have their picture taken with a cardboard cutout of Trump. That’s it in a nutshell.
issac – name one positive thing Hillary did as SoS. The State Dept, couldn’t, but maybe you can.
Isaac:
Agree with everything that you said about Trump.
But I disagree with your conclusion about Hillary being better.
As bad as Trump is, I still believe that he is better than Hillary since he at least offers the (very) faint possibility of change while with Hillary, we are absolutely assured that her mendacious mediocrity will continue.
Though I believe that no matter who is elected, it will end in tears for the country.
It’s not a case of Hillary being better than Trump. It’s a case of Hillary being of the same ilk as all preceding leaders regarding all the complaints. Half of Americans are of one mind and the other half of another. This is the dilemma of the two party oligarchy into which we have morphed. That can only change from the bottom up with petitions to ban concentrated privates funding and use the systems used by more successful democracies, if Americans can pull their collective egotistical heads out of their we’re number one, don’t listen to anybody, if it ain’t broke why fix it, rear ends.
Trump is simply from another planet. He has never exhibited any comprehension of the problems that face America. He has only jabbed at the nerves of those that can be bought off with his dog and pony show. Listen carefully to his speeches and you will hear nothing that cannot and is not said by any body off the street. What you will hear also is a complete lack of comprehension of the reality of the situations. Clinton has functioned with a clear comprehension of the situations. She has succeeded and failed. No one remembers her successes as successes happen over time and failures are a distinct moment in time.
It’s not a choice between to of the same ilk. Trump has illustrated clearly that he is a complete idiot. If he had the stuff he would be 20 points ahead of Clinton at this time. He had the attention of just about everybody as just about every body wants a change. He sewered and has not come up for air. It is about something more important than the issues surrounding Clinton. It is about Trump’s absence of reality.
With Clinton the bleeding will continue but there will be no new wounds and there is a bright light there somewhere. With Trump it is pure fantasy.
There is such a thing as a blithering idiot. However, I suspect that you are more of a blathering idiot. Let’s examine a little of what you said, above:
Huh??? No, atually Trump is the only candidate who has exhibited comprehension of the “rigged system”, the harmful effects of massive illegal immigration, the problems with NATO being outdated, and the idiocy behind some of the trade deals. Along with Bernie, Trump recognizes the ruinous effects of off-shoring our factories, and the Wall Street flim-flam games.
I think the operative phrase in what you said was “you will hear nothing that cannot and is not said by any body off the street. ”
In other words, Trump is not high-toney enough for your delicate sensibilities. You want somebody to attack the oligarchy from the ground up— yet that person presumably must be able to read Proust in French, and have attended either Harvard or Yale. You are not alone in this. J. H. Kunstler has the same sort of classist approach. Your elitism is showing.
The answer, to borrow something from poetry, is that we need a Sweeney, who knows what he wants and goes after it, and not a Prufrock who though sophisticated, is full of self-doubt.
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
Squeek, Hillary has aspiration pneumonia caused by her having Parkinson’s, a common problem for those w/ Parkinson’s. Bet on it. And, aspiration pneumonia is one of the leading causes of death in Parkinson patients.
One thing is true, the more powerful you are, the more power you have to define the terms in which debate takes place. You actually can define words themselves. Here are some of Clinton’s actions: 1. phoning in drone kills which killed civilians including children 2. laughing about her role in Gaddafi’s death (having a pole rammed up his butt over and over again is how he died) 3. lying about the destruction of state dept. documents which belong to the public: “Last year, Clinton said she was not facing a subpoena when more than 30,000 emails were deleted. Is that true? No, per the FBI.” (From CNN itself) and finally, threatening Iran with genocide on behalf of Israel.
Like Obama, Clinton supports torture, mass incarnation, is a racist, is a war monger who has killed children, has helped the banks spread massive wealth inequality, and believes strong in the presidential right of assassination. They also believe in a mass surveillance state and the arrest of journalists and whistleblowers.
Because there are they people/group in power, their heinous behavior is simply considered “normal”. Who normalized it? They did, Propaganda machines did and their supporters did. The only group you have power to change is your own as a supporter. No citizen should “normalize” or excuse these actions, no one.
Trump will do these things but he hasn’t done them yet. Until I see you condemn and refusing to support people who engage in these heinous crimes, you will have no ethical authority to call out Trump or his supporters. Oppose your own criminals and you will have credibility to speak about Trump.
I ask you to join people of conscience who do not, like Rudy Giuliani, find waterboarding and other horrific actions just fine depending on who does it. Heinous crimes are heinous crimes no matter who does them. if people will not band together to stand against unacceptable behavior of those in power, then the powerful will continue to do as they please.
Powerful people are naked emperors. We should not let them define their actions. Reality defines their actions and those actions are wrong. Have the courage to oppose wrong doing by the powerful. That is our job as citizens.