After repeated refusals of her family to allow her to marry the man she loved, Zeenat Rafiq, 18, eloped with Hassan Khan, a classmate. She was surprised therefore when her mother found her to say that all was forgiven and that she should return home for a belated celebration of the marriage. When she showed up, her mother and brother proceeded to beat and strangle her . . . and then burned her. Her mother, Perveen Bibi, has proudly claimed to have upheld the honor of the family by killing her own daughter. She told the police “I have no regrets.”
After killing and burning her daughter, Bibi ran outside and yelled, “I have killed my daughter for misbehaving and giving our family a bad name,.”
She was sentenced to death while Rafiq’s brother, Anees Rafiq, received life in prison.
Rafiq is just one of the roughly 1,000 women are slain every year by relatives. After she married in secret, the couple hid in fear for their lives until Rafiq’s mother and an uncle arrived with the offer of a ceremony. Notably, there is no record of the uncle being charged despite his involvement in luring the victim to her death.
Rafiq’s terrible death is a vivid reminder of the plight faced by women in many Muslim countries. However, it is reassuring that this murderer and her son have received stiff sentences in Pakistan.
It’s problems like this in Pakistani culture that scare me. How is this acceptable?
Zeenat, poor baby. I would go back in time and save you if I could. I hate that this happens. I hate that people put their own “honor” before the health and happiness of their kids. I hate that this terrible crime is celebrated in some parts of the world.
A word of caution to anyone from these areas full of madness. If you elope and feel in danger, and your family claims all if forgiven, please meet them at a safe place, with people who would actually protect you, just to make sure. Or just FaceTime them. Don’t give them access to you and don’t believe them until they prove they are trustworthy.
These kids keep going back, chasing love. And they often die.
Beliefs have consequences. And we never like to talk about people’s religious beliefs. Maybe we should — especially when they condone murder.
Of course it’s not murder in their eyes, but what is or isn’t murder, and what the penalties are to be, tell us why we have to talk about it. From The Reliance of the Traveler (page 583):
“1.2 The following are not subject to retaliation:
1- a child or insane person, under any circumstances
2- a Muslim for killing a non-Muslim;
3- a Jewish or Christian subject of the Islamic state for killing an apostate from Islam ( because a subject of the state is under its protection, while killing an apostate from Islam is without consequences);
4- A father or mother (or their fathers of mothers) for killing their offspring, or offspring’s offspring;”
If I keep sounding like a broken record by going back to The Reliance of Traveler, everybody, feel free to break out your Sharia law books and chime in. But the ol’ Shafi’i law manual is the only one I have. Under Sharia everything depends upon your assigned status in all cases, not just murder. At the top of the totem pole is the Muslim man. Next, the Muslim woman. Third, the Ahlus al kitab (usually Christians or Jews but also some others such as Zoroastrians) who has accepted dhimmi status. At the bottom would be atheists and people the Muslims consider idolators.
In the case of a Muslim man killing another Muslim man, it would depend on if the killing was intentional or not. If it’s intentional then the killer must be executed UNLESS the victim’s father, brother, or other close family member forgives him on condition of paying the blood money. (if it’s ruled unintentional then the penalty is to manumit one of your “believing slaves” [i.e. Muslim] and pay the blood money) The same would go for a Muslim killing a Muslima, but in her case if her male relative forgives the killer, the blood money is only 1/2 because women are worth half as much as men under all circumstances. If a Muslim kills a non-Muslim their will be no punishment whatsoever and all the family of the victim gets is 1/3 of the blood money in the case of Christians and Jews. 1/15 if the victim is Zoroastrian (you do not want me to get into the complexities as to why). At the bottom, you get nothing; you’re lucky if your existence is tolerated.
The Shafi’i school of Sharia is by any measure “moderate” when compared to any of the other four major Sunni and Shia schools of Islamic jurisprudence. And at least one in-depth English language text, the 1997 edition is authenticated by Al Azhar University.
Yes, the one that discusses manumitting slaves is from 1997. It also declares that it’s halal for husband and wife to heat hot, moist towels in the microwave for sexual stimulation. As you can see, it really is in depth which is why it’s over 1,200 pages long.
The bottom line is that no Western country can afford to give any legal recognition to any aspect of Sharia law, from Sharia finance to Sharia family law courts. It’s impossible to have just a little bit of Sharia; it’s a package deal. Sharia is simply a legal code that legitimizes Islamic supremacism. Britain made the mistake of allowing Sharia courts to operate over ten years ago, and shortly thereafter their rulings became legally binding. Their rulings were supposed to only be concerned with such things as divorce and child custody. Inevitably, predictably, these courts unilaterally extended their jurisdiction into criminal law particularly in domestic violence because, inevitably, predictably domestic violence is a driving force behind a lot of women seeking divorce. Wife beating is a non-issue in Islam, as if a man beats his wife it’s the wife’s fault and there is no such thing as marital rape.
Surah 2:223 Al-Baqarah (The Cow)
“Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will; but do some good act for your souls beforehand; and fear Allah. And know that ye are to meet Him (in the Hereafter), and give (these) good tidings to those who believe.”
A tilth is a field to be plowed; the farmer can plow his field whenever and however he wants. This is what a wife is to her husband, and like a dirt field she has no say in when or how she will be plowed.
The blind, gullible authorities in the UK have been embarrassed by the fact these Sharia courts have done exactly what the critics who did not want to be established in the first place said they were going to do. Unfortunately that includes Theresa May, who still is listening to the Muslim Council of Britain. The same people who fooled her the first time around.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/26/may-hails-benefits-of-sharia-as-inquiry-set-up-into-misuse-of-is/
“Theresa May hails ‘benefits’ of Sharia as inquiry set up into ‘misuse’ of Islamic law
Sharia teaching is being “misused” and “exploited” to discriminate against Muslim women, the Home Secretary, Theresa May, has claimed, as she unveiled plans for an independent inquiry into the issue.
But she insisted that many British people “benefit a great deal” from the guidance offered by Sharia teaching and other religious codes…”
These fools, like Merkel, have to keep insisting that there is no difference between Sharia and, say, Roman Catholic Church canon law. You can search all you want through RCC canon law and you won’t find anything about special taxes for non-Catholics or determining if a killing is a murder depending on one’s sex or religious affiliation. Once you get sucked into the multicultural insanity you have to stick with it, I suppose, and keep claiming that when differing religious and cultural systems produce exactly the results you’d expect if you knew anything about it (people like Merkel, Kerry and May studiously avoid knowing anything about Islam and instead rely on their manipulators at organizations like CAIR and the MCB, which always gleefully take advantage of the situation) that somehow someone “hijacked” the durned thing.
They’re perpetual college freshmen who say the same thing about communism; how it is the most perfect system in the world except the wrong people keeping seizing control and driving it off the rails.
We should unequivocally ban any aspect of Sharia from ever having legal effect in this country, train people to ask the right questions and bar anyone who advocates for Sharia from even starting the permanent resident process, and add advocating for Sharia to the list of activities that are grounds for revoking citizenship within 10 years of gaining it. Most Arabs and Middle Easterners in this country are Christians. Most Muslims in this country do not want Sharia. Most people in both groups, in fact, came here to get away from that crap. We need to listen to them.
It’s got that Medieval feel to it, doesn’t it?
Both “honor killing” of one person, and a foreign policy mission of world hegemony killing millions of people, are despicable, immoral, and depraved.
Honor killings are real. The ‘foreign policy mission’. is in your imagination.
Google “US foreign policy” and see what it says.
Those who accept this killing are what I describe as MMs or Mediocre Muslims.
Not mediocre but insane and dangerous, to be eradicated through the law. Unfortunately this extremism exists just about everywhere. We are experiencing it in a political manner right here in Podunk America. Just look at who is going to be President. As far as politics goes you can’t get any more insane and dangerous.
Congratulations Issac, you managed to attack yourself, all in a span of 3 minutes. You really have no self-awareness. And “eradicated through the law” doesn’t mean for you what you hope you can hide behind. It means to be in power, to write and enforce ANY law to rid yourself of those you believe to be an enemy to your worldview.
“Your comments illustrate a far more dangerous problem than this insane mother, your type. Your words and the words of others like you represent what is wrong with America, the us or them routine.”
Kill the momma…
Kill the pa….
Gonna send em back to Arkansas…
Oh, Yeah!
Tell me whud I say!
Annn, oooahh.
Annn oooaaah eee eee.
Pakistan: a Stan territory- fly over and Nuke.
Isn’t there going to be some point where Allah demands the use of nuclear weapons and the faithful will oblige?
We are well past that point. To some nut cases, Allah demands that you blow yourself up along with innocent women, men, and children. It’s amazing what can be accomplished when the insane are harnessed by evil. But after all there has been an endless stream of examples from just about every nation, including us.
The mother should be beheaded in public. Neither Koran nor Hadith allow for homicides.
Then you’ve never read the Quran or any ahadith. Both of them insist on homicides.
Surah 9:111 At-Tawbah
“Indeed, Allah has purchased from the believers their lives and their properties [in exchange] for that they will have Paradise. They fight in the cause of Allah , so they kill and are killed. [It is] a true promise [binding] upon Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur’an. And who is truer to his covenant than Allah ? So rejoice in your transaction which you have contracted. And it is that which is the great attainment.”
Sunan Abi Dawud – Book of Prescribed Punishments (Kitab Al-Hudud) – (2) Chapter: The ruling regarding one who reviles the prophet
” Narrated Abdullah Ibn Abbas:
A blind man had a slave-mother who used to abuse the Prophet and disparage him. He forbade her but she did not stop. He rebuked her but she did not give up her habit. One night she began to slander the Prophet (ﷺ) and abuse him. So he took a dagger, placed it on her belly, pressed it, and killed her. A child who came between her legs was smeared with the blood that was there. When the morning came, the Prophet (ﷺ) was informed about it.
He assembled the people and said: I adjure by Allah the man who has done this action and I adjure him by my right to him that he should stand up. Jumping over the necks of the people and trembling the man stood up.
He sat before the Prophet and said: Messenger of Allah! I am her master; she used to abuse you and disparage you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not abandon her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was my companion. Last night she began to abuse and disparage you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her.
Thereupon the Prophet said: Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood.
Grade : Sahih (Al-Albani)
Reference : Sunan Abi Dawud 4361
In-book reference : Book 40, Hadith 11
English translation : Book 39, Hadith 4348″
Homicide is simply one person killing another. Sometimes it is lawful, sometimes it is murder. Killing people in the name of Allah, simply because the people you kill don’t believe in Allah, is not murder. Allah is pleased when Muslims kill unbelievers. Killing people who insult the prophet is permitted. It’s not murder. In this hadith the man kills his slave, the mother of his children, because she wouldn’t stop insulting the prophet. Muhammad approves of the act, so there won’t be any punishment.
I missed this part.
“After killing and burning her daughter, Bibi ran outside and yelled, “I have killed my daughter for misbehaving and giving our family a bad name,.””
But of course she did. What with her neighbors hounding the family, ridiculing them, mocking them. She had fixed the problem and wanted those neighbors to know. Otherwise they would have been forever marked as weak and worthless.
There are 14,000 homicides in Pakistan in a typical year. It’s a reasonable wager that the figure of 1,000 represents the total number of women killed by relatives for any reason, not the number of honor killings.
Most countries in the Near East, North Africa, and Central Asia have quite low homicide rates (provided they’re not engulfed in political violence). Pakistan, with a rate of 7.7 per 100,000, is an exception. It’s still fairly tranquil there compared to the order of the day in most of Latin America.
How do we know the neighbors were hounding and mocking them? This woman got a death sentence.
This was a high profile case but the social pattern is typical.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/28/pakistani-model-qandeel-baloch-killed-by-brother-after-friends-taunts-mother
“Speaking to AFP from her home in the village of Shah Sadar Din, Baloch’s mother Anwar Wai wept as she recalled the shocking death at the hands of brother Muhammad Wasim.
“He killed my daughter after being taunted by his friends. They would infuriate him and tell him she is bringing you dishonour,” she said, surrounded by her husband as well as an adult son and daughter.”
Most of these cases never get into the Western press, admittedly, but the ones that do follow the same script. When it becomes public knowledge that a girl is bringing “shame” on the family by being headstrong, disobedient, dressing immodestly, having a boyfriend, the peer pressure mounts for the family to do something about it. Then extended family members tell immediate family members that if they don’t put a stop to it, someone else will.
I recall reading shortly after this murder that the husband in the above story, the girl’s father, was ready to forgive his son. He’d really have no choice, as that would be due to a combination of peer and financial pressure. If your read the above the family is impoverished as are the vast majority of Pakistanis. They depended on Baloch to support them. They’ll be completely ostracized by the rest of their family and by the larger community if they don’t forgive the son, as much as they may hate doing it. And unless they changed the law, and if they did they probably didn’t do so in time in this case, if the father forgives the son the case goes away.
You mean someone else was taunted ergo this woman was?
I don’t see the death sentence being carried out. I doubt she and her son will even serve a long time in prison. If past performance is any predictor of future results. And, yes, I know that there is supposedly a stricter law.
http://www.theatlantic.com/news/archive/2016/10/pakistans-stricter-penalty-for-honor-killings/503153/
“Pakistani law previously allowed those convicted of honor killings to walk free if they are pardoned by the victim’s family. Under the new legislation, which first passed the senate in March, those convicted who are also facing the death penalty may be pardoned by the victim’s loved ones, though they will still face a mandatory life sentence in prison, which in Pakistan is 12 ½ years.”
But even under this new “stricter” law the sentence is reduced from death to life in prison if the family pardons the killer. And you can see what a life sentence for honor killing amounts to in Pakistan. Call me a skeptic but I don’t see much changing in reality in Pakistan no matter how many times the Parliament keeps rearranging the deck chairs. I remain convinced that these laws keep passing in Muslim countries to lead outsiders like us to think that they’re serious about doing something about honor killings, but I really don’t believe they are.
She got a death sentence. Obviously, there are competing vectors at work in Pakistan. But I see you’re bound and determined.
Given how old and ingrained the culture of honor killing is I’m not at all certain there are competing vectors. Just attempts to make it look as if there are to outsiders. According to this new “stricter” law mom escapes the death penalty if the rest of the family forgives her. Her daughter’s husband may well not count. Traditionally in Islamic societies marriage without a wallyy (guardian) is invalid. Her wallyy would have been her father if he were alive, but I see not mention of any father. If he wasn’t alive then her wallyy would have been her older brother. Whether or not that’s the brother who killed her is impossible to say. But the article says she eloped. She wouldn’t have had to do that if her wallyy approved of the marriage.
I’m a cynic, not bound and determined. I’ve spent enough time in the third world not to be impressed that this lower court handed down a death sentence. This new “strict” law only passed in October. It appears to be just window dressing.
Oldest brother, not older. A younger brother could be her wallyy if he’s the oldest male in the family. But again it’s impossible to say if she had any other brothers besides the one who helped mom kill her, let alone an older brother than he.
There’s nothing at all obvious about there being competing vectors. Politicians anywhere can put on a show and make it look like they mean to affect real change when they intend to do no such thing. Under the old law people who committed honor killings walked out of prison scott free as soon as the family forgave them. This new legal regime may prove to be just as toothless.
From the Shafii Sharia law manual Reliance of the Traveler:
“1.0 WHO IS SUBJECT TO RETALIATION FOR INJURIOUS CRIMES (page 582)
1.2, (page 583)
.
The following are not subject to retaliation:
4- a father or mother (or their fathers or mothers) for killing their offspring or offspring’s offspring.”
Sunan ibn Majah – The Chapters on Legal Punsishments
“It was narrated from `Ubadah bin Samit that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said:
“Carry out the legal punishments on relatives and strangers, and do not let the fear of blame stop you from carrying out the command of Allah (SWT).
Grade : Hasan (Darussalam)
English reference : Vol. 3, Book 20, Hadith 2540
Arabic reference : Book 20, Hadith 2637”
Surah 2:191 Al-Baqarah (The Cow)
“And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.”
The key point: fitnah (spreading discord; can also mean temptation) is worse than killing.
Surah 5:32*-3 Al-Ma’idah (The Table Spread)
Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land – it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one – it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.”
Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,”
Muslims will tell you that there is nothing in Islam that authorizes or condones honor killings. There is plenty in Islam that doesn’t just authorize or condone honor killing. It demands it. It’s just not all in one nice neat, tidy pile with a bow on that says, “Allah wants you to do more honor killings.” That’s why I quoted Sunan ibn Majah. Carrying out the legal punishments on your own relatives is a command from Allah. So, why would it be legal per Sharia? Well, certainly there was discord between this girl’s family and their neighbors. Mom was no doubt getting mocked by her friends. The brother, too, by his friends. He would have been mercilessly mocked, because his family couldn’t control their daughter. She had acted so “shamelessly” by disappointing her parents and marrying the guy she like instead of the one they picked out for her. That would tempt other girls to try the same thing, marrying a man they actually wanted to marry, if this one got away with it. That’s the very definition of striving “upon the earth [to cause] corruption;” leading others away from Islam. Good Muslim women don’t act like this. They are obedient to their parents and later their husbands. Muhammad had a list of what a good Muslim woman is like. This one was a bad Muslim woman. She was heading straight for hellfire. The family couldn’t let her corrupt the others.
Anybody want to bet mom and the brother don’t fulfill their complete sentences? They’ll be let off once international attention wanders off to something else.
*I included 5:32 to show that it is a commandment for the “children of Israel. This is one that Muslims will often partially quote to try to convince that lazy and incurious (i.e. the press, liberals) that Islam is a religion of peace. They’ll begin and end with the part about killing one is like killing all mankind and saving one is like saving all mankind.
.
And of course those treacherous, evil Jews didn’t do enough killing to clear the land of the transgressors.
The Imam at the Boston bombing memorial service did exactly that. He partially cited that verse, and of course didn’t give a citation.
Surah 5:33 is the command for Muslims. It’s much clearer, more to the point, and more violent. Further, he couldn’t cite it because that would draw attention to the fact that 5:33 is one of the very verses the terrorists use to justify terror attacks like the Boston bombing. After all, sending a non-Muslim military into a Muslim land is the very definition of waging war on Allah and his messenger. And the ahadith make it very clear that the people who support the soldiers (the taxpayers) are just as guilty as the soldiers. And the penalty for that is death.
Taqiyah isn’t the only form of lying that Islam approves of (Muslims lump them all together under the heading of “outwittings”). This form of lying is kithman. Lying by omission.
Religion of peace.
these are the people the Left want to bring into Western Civilization. The Left is trying to commit Cultural Suicide.
Your comments illustrate a far more dangerous problem than this insane mother, your type. Your words and the words of others like you represent what is wrong with America, the us or them routine. You incite violence and separation by attaching the most vile and disgusting elements of humanity to the ‘left’. You would fit in perfectly as one of Hitler’s storm troopers or brown shirts.
Aaannndddd there’s the Hitler reference. Thanks for playing, folks.
And you don’t incite violence and separation? Someone disagrees with you and you immediately compare them to “Hitler’s storm troopers or brown shirts”. Wishing to add the element of those who believe in honor killings because a child did not marry the person chosen for them or chose to marry an “unchosen” one.are not the type of people I want in this country. It is not a matter of race, ethnicity, or religion. There are too many Muslims who do not believe in the “old country: tenets.
Clean your glasses and your mind. My reference was to the blatant accusing of the left to be complicit with this barbarous behavior. That is what the poster posted and that is Hitlerian, Trumpian, Republican.
You attempt to denigrate me by telling me to clean my glasses and my mind. Couple this with your Hitler remark and I get the impression you are not at all interested in anyone understanding your point and the reasons for it.
To clarify: I personally do not think the left wants to allow people like this girls mother into the U..S. I do feel many of the left (and they are the vocal ones) wish to allow the immigration or the taking in of refugees from countries where honor killings is a part of their culture. I realize theph Obama administration says they are vetted but I am not convinced there is accurate information available and their PC philosophy does not permit the asking of such questions. There have been instances of honor killings in the U.S. by people who did enter the country legally. A person who embraces a culture where the family honor trumps all and who will kill their children for not doing their bidding is not compatible with an American culture. PERIOD!
Did
As to your lowlife insult using a Hitler reference: You have every right to express that belief. However, know comparing anyone to Hitler and other such Nazi references is an unmistakable insult from which there is no walking back. There can be no pretense it was not meant to be an insult. That stops all hopes of discussion and efforts to try to understand one another. Is this Obama’s legacy? Did he leave us with a country which is not only divided but where the edges will do or say anything to avoid ever trying to understand the vies of others?
I’m going to keep this short, as my previous comment is in purgatory.
I attempted to make sure everyone knew there was no escape.
The left is complicit in this barbarous behavior. The left lies about it and covers for it. How much more complicit can you be? I’ll give you a British example, but you guys cross-pollinate so it’s a generic example of leftist complicity.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/theoval/2014/04/20/obama-david-axelrod-jim-messina-david-cameron-ed-milibans/7934399/
“British elections to have Obama flavor”
Rotherham. The cops knew what was going on. The municipal council knew what was going on. And they conspired to denigrate and threaten anyone who might attempt to make the child exploitation a public issue.
Perhaps you missed the part where the state of Pakistan is putting the murderess to death…
Perhaps you missed the part that a death sentence in Pakistan for an honor killing rarely if ever results in an actual death.
I suppose I’m coming off as stubborn. You want to know what’s really stubborn? The habits and customs that make the third world, the third world.
Can anyone who is hugely impressed that Pakistan (?!?!?!!!) sentenced this lady to death explain why they are so hugely impressed?
I can tell you why I’m not. With actual references.