The military has confirmed that a special forces unit flew of Trump flag from a military convoy in Louisville. In a nation that has prided itself on an apolitical military, it was an insult to the professionalism of our military personnel and their traditions. Our Republic once had military officers who viewed their allegiance to the Federalists and led to partisan conflicts. Our tradition of an apolitical military is one of the most cherished in our country.
The unit in belonged to a Navy Special Warfare unit and an investigation is underway. the outfit specializes in unconventional warfare, direct actions, counterterrorism, special reconnaissance and personnel recovery.
Military regulations prohibit sponsorship or endorsement of any “political candidate, campaign or cause.”
Those responsible warrant punishment and have shown that they lack not just discipline and judgment but any notion of the values of the American military.
What do you think the punishment should be?
Wow, I couldn’t agree with this post more!! I’m a huge supporter of our military, and I’m always ready to show it.
I couldn’t be more apposed of Trump even being in the Present Elect position. I really called all of his non sense behavior from the get go.
It’s a true shame when our own president is embarrassing the country.
A little accuracy might help.
The Navy has no Special Forces. They do have SEALs which are under the umbrella of Special Operations.
The Air Force has no Special Forces. What used to be Air Commandos and certain weapons systems etc. come under Special Operations.
The USMC for a long time refused to have any Special Forces but now have turned their Force Recon into Force Recon/Snipers which is a Special Operations capable unit.
Only the US Army has US Army Special Forces. Period. along with other Special Operations units such as Rangers.
So wha’s the deal? Last I heard it was some Naval Reserves driving trucks that possibly belonged to a Navy Unit so go take it up with the SEALs. Pay up your life insurance first.
LIke the vast majority of the military they were celebrating finally getting a Commander-In-Chief and not someone that would send them to Benghazi.
It is not a violation of any Law, UCMJ or other code. At the time the flag was flown Trump was Officially the President of the United States.
Special Warfare Unit is not Special Forces. Now is the Trump Flag the Presidential flag? I doubt it. But as to the seriousness of the situation I’ve seen units fly Road Kill flags made of dried out in the desert ‘cats’ on their jeeps at Hunter-Liggett in California.
“When you treat your military despicably they soon learn to despise you in return.” Should have taken the blatant message more seriously.
I was able to find out a little more information. While the vehicles belong to an east coast SEAL team, they are actually based at Fort Knox, so that’s where they were headed. The SEALs train there; a SEAL, Jonathan Kaloust, was killed in a training accident at Fort Knox in 2013 when his HUMVEE rolled over.
It makes good sense to base the HUMVEES at Fort Knox as it would be a lot easier to maintain them there given economy of scale due to the Army’s supply chain for the vehicles.
The Navy PAO, a LT Jacqui Maxwell, said the vehicles were transiting between two training areas. While it’s true that the SEALs use Fort Knox as a training area, if she’s accurate about the vehicles being based at Fort Knox then there’s all sorts of possibilities. Support personnel could have simply been ferrying the vehicles back to home base after the SEALs used them for training at the area to the east.
All this is speculation, of course, but it is also speculation that any SEALs were involved.
Good question above. Who was driving the vehicles?
In a military vehicle that’s usually one of the lower ranking people and never a commissioned officer. Typically the make up of SOF units sometimes call for the junior ranking individual to be of higher rank.
Back to the topic.
Seals obey the lawful orders of those appointed over them…it’s in the enlistment and promotion oath.
Here read this
DOD Directive 1344.10
Political Activities by Members of the Armed Forces.
Google it. Very specific.
As a retired USN Surface Warfare Officer and a former special warfare and inshore warfare programs officer, I understand the ethos for the flag flying (probably coming back from an arduous op or exercise), but it was just plain wrong.
The pity is that before the instant broadcast of a smartphone, somebody will get their wrists slapped harder than usual.
Order and discipline are central to such highly trained professionals.
“just plain wrong”? In the history of what our military has done for this country, this is the equivalent of rolling a stop sign.
So let’s see how honorable you get in this situation? Police officer is passing out all sorts of failure to stop for stop sign and related citiations when his wife blows through and is also speeding. Pursuit, writes a ticket and gains respect of the community. Where did he go wrong?
Answer. The pay by or request court date block listed a specific day which was the day before payday. since the wife had no income the police officer had to pay the ticket. What to do?
Simple ..Ask the judge for a two day extension. and asked the wife which part of the budget to deudct the $105 from and agreed to followi her suggestion.
That is a case where rolling a sign IS just plain wrong. But this other doesn’t rise to that standard.
.
🙂 “Emotional Bank Accounts”. When it involves the wife, it’s always important to never become overdrawn!
Michael Aarethun – my wife thinks rolling a stop sign is her God given right.
Not if your married to an honest cop. We’re divorced. She’s on her fourth try and I’m happily single having learned my lesson and being fleet of foot. Took me two tries !!!
Michael Aarethun – I remind her everytime she does it, but it never sinks in. It is not enough to get divorced over. 🙂
I don’t understand why SEALs just back from an arduous op or exercise would be taking a cross country road trip from the Virginia Beach area through Louisville Kentucky to points yet unknown further west.
I think we should wait to fine out who was driving those vehicles before hanging it on the SEALs. So far all the Navy has confirmed is who the vehicles belong to; a unit subordinate to Naval Special Warfare Group 2.
Year is 1993. President Clinton. Dead US Special forces bodies are dragged through streets of Somalia. They are laughing. Funny. Who has last laughs? Navy CID?
Why are we in Somalia?
Refresh my memory, and while your at it, remind me of why we have military forces in — the numbers vary — but at least 138 countries.
Why does the freedom that most here trumpet not extend to others?
It was fascinating to read all the latent testosterone laced comments on the Dairy Queen thread. Remembrances of glory on the football field, wrestling mat, and fights in seventh grade
I wonder if such a militaristic culture can sustain itself in the long run? History is against you on this one.
The sword is mightier than the pen for the sword can be a pen and writes large but the pen is just as nib. 240 years and still trucking. Despite s hundred years under the progressive socialist war mongers.
Immediate dishonorable discharge for anyone involved and/or anyone who did not speak up against it. Period. The message must be swift, harsh and clear that this will never be tolerated by the United States armed forces.
That’s your opinion? Seig Me No Heils Comrade we don’t serve your party.
Why is this article conclusory? When did the event happen? Before or after the election? If it happened after the election, Trump was no longer a candidate and there was no campaign or cause.
From what I have read it happened this past Sunday. I thought these lefty’s had compassion in their hearts for their fellow human beings. The SEAL community is very small and underneath that warrior exterior exists a human being that just lost one of their own. I’ve worked with Navy SEALs before and they deserve to be treated with the reciprocal honor with which they serve. The cowardice on this blog is revolting and all of you recommending punitive action be taken against these grieving men should prove YOUR bravery and go tell them personally how you feel. I’m certain they will afford you far more respect than you deserve.
By the way, please continue your whining over President Trump following through on the promises that got him elected. And by all means, pay no attention to the First Rule of Holes, you’re immune. 🙂
You’ll notice I recommended a temporary non-punitive letter of reprimand. Although right now it’s not clear to me if any SEALs were even involved. Or SWCCs, or even uniformed support personnel such as vehicle maintenance. All anybody knows, as confirmed by Naval Special Warfare Unit 2, is that these vehicles belong to a Virginia Beach based Special Warfare unit and were traveling in convoy through Louisville.
It seems to me that everyone, including our kind host the good professor, are jumping to the conclusion that because those vehicles belong to a Naval Special Warfare unit then members of the unit were driving those vehicles, and therefore members of the unit put that flag on the vehicle’s antenna.
That simply doesn’t follow. I can’t see wasting a bunch of special operators time on a cross country drive like this. It may well turn out these vehicles were driven by civilian contractors.
Concur. You’ve done a great job of providing levels of detail one should reasonably expect would put this non-story to rest. Unfortunately this blog entertains many folks that don’t adhere to reasonable arguments. They have a worldview that cannot process facts that conflict with their version of the truth.
Sadly, our host knows this full well and that is precisely why this “legal” blog thrives.
Democrats and the left made everything political.
Even corporations are being demanded to announce they support the latest liberal cause.
As you sow…
More fake news. Gingrich et al. perfected the art of personal destruction, practicing on Bill and Hilary from the day Bill became president. But Bannon/Trump have taken it to a new level. Today, no pronouncement from that mutant being is released without first defaming the perceived opposition of the moment. Even today, that tool Preibus had to defend a major diplomatic announcement by beginning — The prior administration was too soft on Iran.
Even if true, a point on which reasonably minds may disagree, what interest of this country, not Bannon/Trump, but this country, was served by insulting the prior administration? None.
Anodyne Sporidium,
Obama did it for eight years. Where were you? But unlike Obama’s gratuitous habit of blaming Bush for his own incompetence this actually does make sense in terms of the national interest. This administration is informing the Iranians that this administration will not be like the last one. It’s something the Iranians need to have pounded into their skulls. If you’re at all interested in avoiding a war in the Middle East/Southwest Asia. If the Iranians think this administration is in the habit of issuing empty threats like the last one they may well overplay their hand. The Iranian-backed Houthi rebels attacked a Saudi frigate operating in the Gulf of Aden/Arabian sea to the south of Yemen, and there are indications they mistook it for a USN warship. The Iranians are intent to see if they can push Trump around like President Barack “Red Lines” Obama. They need to be convinced otherwise, so the reference to the Obama administration is a necessity. Thanks to Barack Obama, whose fecklessness made war more likely, not less, and not just with the Iranians.
In other news, I’m amused how the left is now blaming the Republicans for abiding by the Biden rule, which meant that the Senate would not confirm any candidates in a President’s last year in office and after the “political season” has begun.
http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/the-biden-rule-how-the-vice-president-set-the-stage-for-the-current-supreme-court-blockade/
“‘The Biden Rule’: How the Vice President Set the Stage for the Current Supreme Court Blockade”
With video.
And I’ll bet since you’re on a roll I’ll bet you’ll blame the GOP for unprecedented partisanship when they follow the precedent Reid set on abolishing the filibuster for everything except SCOTUS nominees. The MSM will continue to call this the “nuclear option” but in reality it is now the Reid option. The filibuster isn’t in the Constitution and there’s nothing sacred about it. Thank Reid for demonstrating that fact.
As far as the politics of personal destruction goes, Gingrich was a slacker compared to the Senate Dems when they successfully assassinated the character of Robert Bork when Reagan nominated him and unsuccessfully tried to do the same to Clarence Thomas when Bush1 nominated him to the Supreme Court.
The Bork nomination proceedings resulted in a new verb added to our language. According to the Oxford English dictionary, to “bork” someone is to “to defame or vilify a person systematically.” According to Tom Goldstein who runs SCOTUSblog the Democrats and their no-holds barred scorched earth tactics of personal destruction established such ideological battles as the norm for Supreme Court nominees as they need to have black-robed Senators for life in that body to advance their agenda as they can’t do it above board, no doubt that change is forever.
In fact, Gingrich was a slacker compared to Hillary Clinton. As First Lady she instigated the firing of every single employee in the White House travel office. The White House travel office arranges travel for reporters who follow the President around. They not only fired these people, but they accused them of false criminal acts, as they wanted to give the travel business to their friends and political cronies and they wanted to make it look like they had legitimate reasons for the firings and not as the blatant political payoff that it was. The Clinton White House, under heavy scrutiny, was forced to backtrack, taking the business away from their friends and reinstating most of the fired employees to federal service, although in other areas in government. Billy Dale, the head of the travel office, went to trial for embezzlement where he was acquitted.
Hillary Clinton lied about her role, as even the GAO found and a SAD! NYT was forced to report when a memo from Hillary Clinton surfaced years after the administration claimed it had turned over all relevant documents. It identified her as the driving force of the plan. Talk about the politics of personal destruction, she really did destroy Billy Dale’s life. Because little people don’t matter, she can and will squash them like bugs if they are in the way.
So keep on with the propaganda if you like, but those of us who didn’t get lobotomies or spend the last 25 years on crack will just laugh at the feebleness your narrative.
They continue to give us good reasons to turn them into something useful…like targets. What else is the left good for?
Unintended comedy due to the crazy and their lack of self-awareness.
Did you see that clip of Nancy Pelosi saying Gorsuch is bad for everyone who eats food, drinks water, and breaths air? It’s comedy gold in its sheer insanity.
You can watch it here.
http://eheadlines.com/pelosi-loses-it-on-trumps-scotus-pick-if-you-breathe-air-drink-water-eat-food-this-is-a-very-bad-decision-video/
Your insult is our truth. in your party anything that serves the party is the truth even when it isn’t like your first sentence.
THe who? weren’t they a British Rock Band?
I spent 21 years wearing the uniform This was bone headed at best. I don’t think this as a single act (depending on the rank of the convoy commander) deserves punishment that would end a career But making a guy’s life miserable for a short period of time would be highly appropriate. I worked with SEALS a few times over the years, and while they are very good at what they do, I was always glad I did not have to supervise them I used to think it is a shame that the line from the line from the Clint Eastwood move, “Break glass in case of war” could not be a real life option.
I was in the Navy for twenty years and I had occasion to work with the SEALs. As intel “work with the SEALs means I made sure they had office supplies for their mission planning and then only for exercises like Ulchi/Focus Lens or Cobra Gold. I would hate to supervise them, too.
After one Cobra Gold when we disembarked at White Beach (Okinawa) I hitched a ride with them to Kadena. We’re all in the back of a six-by and the enlisted guys spent the entire ride trying to gross me out, egged on by their Chief. We get to Navy section of Kadena AFB and they drop me and two SEAL lieutenants off at the Bachelor Officers Quarters. I happen to be first in line so I go up to the reception desk and the girl behind the counter tells me the place is full and I can’t have a room. So the two SEALs go to the counter and her eyes get as big as tennis balls and she gushes, “You guys are SEALs?!?” She gives them the Captain’s (O-6 for anyone who doesn’t speak Navy) suite. I just sigh and ask to sleep on their couch. So after we drop our bags off in the Captain’s suite we head to the officer’s club. Where we all proceed to get reasonably hammered. Then they start throwing stuff, starting with the popcorn. Some full Colonel comes over and starts lecturing them, the two SEAL O-3s do not appreciate and they let the Colonel know it.
This is an Air Force club. They have no sense of humor. I can see how this is going so I get up and say, “This may look good on your record in the SPECWAR community, but getting kicked out of this club and probably charged with something won’t look good in mine so I’m taking a walk.” Later, after they got kicked out we all meet back at the Captain’s suite. I had bought a bottle of whiskey to share just to make sure there were no hard feelings. There weren’t. They get really hungry so they explore the kitchen and we have everything we need to make rice so rice it is. One of the SEALs, Gino starts whipping out the plates from a cupboard rapid fire, over his shoulder behind his back, and gives me a black eye. That’s my “Three days in combat with the SEALs” story.
And these were lieutenants, platoon leaders. I’d hate to even find out what it’s like to ride herd on the enlisted types.
To translate a Navy Lieutenant is a Captain in the Infantry and a Navy Two star is a One start with unwarranted preentisons of grandeur. One Navy uniform is called an ensemble preferable while licking their eyebrows and while the Army has war stories the Navy has fairy tails..
Typically :Lieutenants are trying to get promoted to Sergeant so they can one day wear leadership badges.
Lieutenants in the Navy are Captains in the Army and Captains in the Navy Colonels in the Army.. In the Army we wear our rank on sleeve or..with velcro but it’s the same insignia. Inthe Navy they wear their life history on their sleeve. Navy people dress in ensembles the military just wears uniforms. Finally. The Army has War Stories the Navy Sea Stories and the Marines use the Bible. Why? Army has a drier sense of humor and in the Marines the Gunnys word is Gospel. The Navy is all wet.
These ignorant, clueless trumpers must approve of the putin trump love affair and the abandonment of democratic allies? Or is it trump’s hate of Muslims and his unconstitutional bans? Could it be they approve of him not having sufficient knowledge of his Yemen raid that got a SEAL member and child (so far) killed? Do his 5 deferments give them pride? Could it be that they love trump’s abject ignorance of the Constitution and Bill of Rights? Maybe these fools were more impressed with trump’s conflict of interests, trump u and trump foundation scams? Maybe they are excited about trump’s executive overreach (at least it was overreach under Obama. Remember that trumpers?). Whatever the case, trumpers have no one to blame but themselves for these anti-American actions, including military outfits flying the repulsive, anti-American, anti-democracy, pro-putin trump flag. Enjoy the fruits of your authoritarian, anti-American vote trumpers.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/02/politics/haley-russia-un/
Apparently Nikki Haley went rogue at the UN? Is that what we should believe Lloyd? I realize it has been 8 years since you last saw an American President act in the best interests of the United States but this IS what his job is. You mistake authoritarian for having a spine. That’s quite understandable after 8 years of a bowing, apologizing racist in the White House. Yes, you are welcome! I won’t have to watch the news to know how effective President Trump has been at unwinding the bureaucratic state you progressives love so much. I’ll simply follow this blog, and I’ll be grinning from ear to ear as I watch all of you rant and rave about seeing your progressive, destructive handiwork get flushed away. Keep it coming! 🙂
Can’t touch this. +1
That’s twice the left has spoken. Seig me no heils Comrade we no longer serve the fascist party.
REJECTED. No proffer or offer of any proof, facts, cites, sources, examinations etc. just your …opinion.
When Trump finds out that Navy CID is looking to punish SEAL special forces unit, then heads will roll. Just like AG Yates. “You’re fired”.
The Navy doesn’t have CID. We do have NCIS, but I can’t see getting them involved. They did violate the Hatch Act by engaging in partisan political activities while in uniform. Trump is the CinC, but he’s also a politician. In a brilliant move he’s already filed a letter with the FEC r.e. the 2020 election. I’m not entirely sure what the letter was as I am far from an expert on the intricacies of election law; I know it was not a formal announcement of candidacy. What it did accomplish was this; all those tax-exempt 501(c)(3) non-profits the left has set up to undermine his presidency now can not engage in partisan political activities against him or they’ll lose their tax exempt status. Thus outmaneuvering Soros et al who pumped billions into those non-profits intending to do exactly that for Trump’s entire first term. Now they might as well have flushed it down the toilet.
But that also means no military personnel can display the flag of a candidate for office, as it implies the Navy has taken sides on who should be President. That goes against the entire concept of civilian control of the military; the military stays a thousand miles from even giving the appearance of who they want to choose as their CinC.
The Navy needs to handle this administratively; Captain’s Mast resulting a temporary non-punitive letter of reprimand (so it can be pulled from their service record before they test or go before a selection board for advancement and therefore doesn’t hurt their chances for promotion) with a stern lecture to go and sin no more. I would say the stern lecture should be delivered over drinks at McP’s in Coronado, but SEAL Team Six is an east coast unit so I don’t know where they hang out in the Norfolk/Dam Neck area.
Each special operator is a national asset and we can’t afford to lose a single one over what was just a boneheaded mistake.
Completely agree with you on the punishment, but your post is exhibit a in why this country needs education in spotting fake news. Only your fellow conspiracy theorists will be duped by your cleverly disguising an accusation
-501(c)(3) non-profit organizations funded by Soro’s and et al. are out to get Trump!
as a statement of fact
-Trump cleverly defeated the efforts of 501(c)(3) non-profit organizations funded by Soro’s and et al. to get Trump.
Of course. Nobody is trying to sabotage Trump’s presidency. Hence the new era of bipartisan cooperation and all being quiet on our streets and every college campus.
Bi-Partisan is another name for a single party system. Same with cross partisan.
Trump has his own flag?
I didn’t get an answer to the same question on another site or two BK So I thought I let you knmow your transmission is Lima Charley The only answer I received at first was ‘yes it has thirteen stripes and 50 stars but if this will paste here it is…….pause…..nope try this URL
https://www.google.com.mx/search?q=US+Presidents+flag&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gfe_rd=cr&ei=BWqXWKG6HMutzQKBiYGABg. If you aren’t on Firefox you may have to shorten it or just do a standard web search it’s in Wikpedia and other places.
The punishment shouldn’t be meted out against them for flying a flag. Where’s the outrage toward killing what is now being claimed tp be up to 24 civilians including eight women, an American eight-year old, and a newborn in the Team 6 raid in Yemen in Trump’s first week in office. You’re talking about flags? Where are your priorities?
The greater crime is that we allow an oil-based economy to somehow dictate the value of human life, and we arbitrarily kill – and claim it was a high value target – to disrupt the region. Terrorists my arse. You’d be fighting us in any way you could, too, if the shoe were on the other foot.
Stop supporting tyrannical, self-proclaimed royalty and get out of the Middle East. Stop the greed mentality from stealing your own conscience and stealing what’s not ours, and none of this would be happening.
The drone king Obama shredded innocents routinely. That’s never reported. I’m preachin’ to the choir on this, Steve. I know that.
Nick, the rumor now is that there were an alleged 24 killed in this village-wide raid besides the Navy Chief, and only eight had some (low-level) connection to al Qaeda. It’s alleged that ten were children including one American eight-year old (daughter of an al Qaeda target killed several years ago), and six were women. Crimes against humanity from the “Let’s Make America Great Again” pontiff.
Topping that, Mattis and Kelly first heard about this raid just before it was ordered, and then DOD denied at first that any civilians were killed. Standard operating procedure.
As I’ve said many times, now the MSM will actually report on failings from the WH. And if there aren’t any in a news cycle, they’ll make them up. The Gorusch starting a Fascism Forever Club in high school is today’s fake news.
“Mattis and Kelly first heard about this raid just before it was ordered” Sorry, I can’t keep up with Trump mistakes. This was with regard to the Immigration ban. My apologies.
“As the Times makes clear, there were “months of detailed planning” that took place under Obama, and the Department of Defense had conducted a legal review that Trump approved. Oh, and it turns out that Trump approved the raid at a dinner attended not just by General Mattis, but also by the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the vice president, and his national security adviser (a man who has enormous experience with special forces operations).
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/444560/dont-believe-claims-trump-botched-yemen-raid
It’s not true that Obama’s drone obsession was never reported.
One can google “obama drones” with a date constriction (advanced mode of google search) of any given year and see thousands of articles written on this issue, with many beginning in 2011. The articles span all forms of media, from what you call the MSM to lowly blogs, such as this one.
Your statement of, “that’s never reported” is false on its face.
If it was 2015 I would provide a direct link to any given year of your erroneous claim, but google has chosen to deprecate the daterange: operator, (which was Julian dates, so you probably would be lost anyway).
So you’ll just have to go to google’s advanced mode and constrain your date search through javascript dropdowns.
If you do this, you will see that your statement is false.
Good luck.
You have no clue. I hate even talking about this but since Obama and his administration leaked the information I suppose I can. For the longest time Seal Team Six didn’t exist. Not for anyone without a need to know. I can tell you that the SPECWAR guys were dismayed that their own CinC would blow their cover for short term political gain. But that was who Obama was. As we are seeing, that’s who the Democrats are.
As a Tier 1 special operations force they train to an unbelievably high degree of precision. Again, you can not imagine. Richard Marcinko claimed that one year SEAL Team Six expended more ammo than the entire USMC. I don’t trust Richard Marcinko since he went to prison for conspiracy to defraud the government, but they expend a lot of ammo. Why? Because Tier 1 special operators consider a hostage rescue a failure if one hostage dies. Very few special forces around the world train to that standard.
Most special forces consider a successful mission one in which no terrorist escapes, no matter how many hostages have to die to accomplish that objective. A prime example is the 2002 Moscow theater terrorist attack. All 40 of the terrorists were killed, along with 130 hostages. By Spetsnaz standards that’s a success.
My first priority is not falling for propaganda. Any civilians who were killed were killed by “friendly fire;” the AQ terrorists. Seriously, you have a choice. Who killed the noncombatants? A bunch of undisciplined terrorists, or a team of one of the most highly trained special operators with perhaps the finest fire discipline in the world. And you’re choosing the SEALs as the culprits. That, frankly, is crazy. You actually think the terrorists wouldn’t shoot blindly in any direction. Why not? What’s to stop them, love of family? From my favorite Muslim-turned apostate/atheist, the Masked Arab (masked because apostates from Islam live under a death sentence, even from or sometimes especially from their own family):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr8Ehtx75s8&index=13&list=PLKurjH_dbSTJiajkF74qvqwcOML6PS0Ty
“Islam & ISIS – Killing relatives”
“The greater crime is that we allow an oil-based economy to somehow dictate the value of human life, and we arbitrarily kill – and claim it was a high value target – to disrupt the region.”
Since the we’re not going to have anything other than an oil/carbon fuel-based economy anytime this century, as anyone who imagines that alternative “green” energy except nuclear power (yes, it’s green) can substitute can’t do math, the greater crime is that leftists in the guise of pretending to care about the environment force us to rely on Middle Eastern sources. If we developed our own resources we’d have centuries worth of the stuff and would not only be energy independent we’d be exporters.
“Stop supporting tyrannical, self-proclaimed royalty and get out of the Middle East.”
I would love to. Why don’t you go tell the leftists who are preventing us from doing exactly that to cut it out. But I sense from your final sentence which is nothing but nonsensical psychobabble that you won’t.
I linked to the wrong video in the series somehow.
OK, I keep selecting the right video. If you start the video and then elect to watch it on YouTube it will take you to a page where all 15 in the series are available. “Killing Relatives” is no. 13.
Well done Steve57!
“My first priority is not falling for propaganda. Any civilians who were killed were killed by “friendly fire;” the AQ terrorists. Seriously, you have a choice. Who killed the noncombatants?”
So, what is your source that these Yemenis were killed by friendly fire, especially in light of your disdain for leaks?
Apparently, the air assault killed the women and children of this village. I know I get better news from outside the MSM and the government than I do from the government these days.
“Most special forces consider a successful mission one in which no terrorist escapes, no matter how many hostages have to die to accomplish that objective.” Crimes against humanity shouldn’t be condoned no matter who’s hiding behind them. As for me blaming SEALs, where you draw that conclusion is beyond me. It’s their civilian bosses I’m blaming, but it’s our military that has to regulate itself against unlawful acts. Without self-regulation, they’re third-world death squads. We’re the good guys. Remember?
Steve Groen,
“So, what is your source that these Yemenis were killed by friendly fire, especially in light of your disdain for leaks?”
I can tell you what my source isn’t. It isn’t the “fake news” you keep falling for. I had a reporter tell me to my face years ago that if the Navy refused to divulge information even for operational security reasons he’d just make stuff up to try and force the Navy’s hand. The more derogatory the narrative the better as far as he was concerned. And yes I despise leaks.
“Apparently, the air assault killed the women and children of this village.”
Quite possibly. And, so? In order to comply with the Law Of Armed Conflict (LOAC) armed forces must operate according to the principle of distinction. That means each side must make a distinction between themselves as combatants and non-combatants, and between military objects and civilian objects. What this means is that lawful combatants wear uniforms or identifiable insignia to distinguish between themselves and non-combatants, and physically separate themselves from the civilian population. Terrorist groups like AQ and Hamas deliberately don’t do that because a dead child is propaganda gold as far as they’re concerned. Apparently it works on some people.
Since I was responding to your comment that only mentioned SEAL Team Six, and not the air assault, I only addressed SEAL Team Six. They identify their targets and hit what they aim at. Nawar al-Awlaki was, according to the Yemenis, killed by small arms fire, shot through the neck and later died of the wound. I can guarantee that the bullet that killed her didn’t come from the SEALs.
“I know I get better news from outside the MSM and the government than I do from the government these days.”
No you don’t. You never have. Google Eason Jordan “The News We Kept to Ourselves” and you’ll find his April 2003 op-ed in the NYT. He was then head of CNN. and had to fess up to carrying Saddam Hussein’s water. They broadcast his propaganda completely unfiltered. Jordan tried to justify it by saying to do anything else would imperil his local Iraqi employees. But since every single news agency knew the price of operating in Iraq was to propagandize for Saddam Hussein, the solution was not to go in. Then they would have no local employees to put in danger. The bottom line is that CNN valued the tag line “This is CNN, Baghdad” more than reporting actual news. Saddam Hussein wasn’t twisting Eason Jordan’s arm; he enthusiastically paid that price. They, and the rest of the MSM, always have put telling the truth at the bottom of their stack of priorities.
I can’t remember how many times I laughed out loud at the MSM’s coverage of the Iraq war.
How many times do they have to lie to you before you stop trusting them?
“Crimes against humanity shouldn’t be condoned no matter who’s hiding behind them.”
The crime against humanity is terrorism. When non-combatants get killed in a cross-fire between a special operations team going after a legitimate objective (as they were in this case) and terrorists, it’s the terrorists who have committed a crime, not the special operators. Because the terrorists deliberately use civilians as human shields. Since this is in itself a war crime, why are you condemning the US as the bad guy when it’s the terrorists who illegally created the situation? You are effectively rewarding war criminals for their crimes. Not that I’m surprised; people have been doing that in the Arab-Israeli conflict for years. Fatah and Hamas can commit all the war crimes they like and are never held accountable. Hamas can fire hundreds of rockets into Israel to try to instigate an Israeli response, each one a war crime as Hamas is deliberately targeting civilians, and the Western MSM wonders, “Will Israel break the cease fire?”
You keep promiscuously and inaccurately throw terms around such as “crimes against humanity” when you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about. Even the Spetsnaz raid on the Moscow theater wasn’t a crime of any sort, let alone war crime or a crime against humanity. The terrorists were holding approximately 850 hostages and were threatening to kill them all. It was no idle threat as they had wired the theater with explosive charges, placing the most powerful charge in the center of the theater. And so the Russians decided they couldn’t wait and went in, killing 130 hostages in the process. It was heavy handed, but entirely justifiable, and by Russian standards they minimized loss of life because frankly they’re not capable of doing better. All the LOAC requires is that you do the best you can within your capabilities.
“It’s their civilian bosses I’m blaming, but it’s our military that has to regulate itself against unlawful acts.”
This wasn’t an unlawful act on the part of the military. I’m no lawyer but I am at least familiar with the LOAC and you clearly are not. This operation was on solid ground when it comes to both US and international law. You keep saying things that have no basis in reality. We have had a Combined Joint Task Force Horn Of Africa operating from a French base in Djibouti since 2002 for reasons that have nothing to do with propping up regimes or for oil. This raid, which originated from CJTF-HOA, had nothing to do with propping up any regime or oil. The word Combined in the command’s title means it’s a multi-national operation. If we committed a war crime then we did it in cooperation with our allies. Do you actually think they’d have gone along with an illegal operation cooked up by the “Trump junta” when those allies are nations with governments that despise Trump?
DJT was sworn in on 20 January and approved this raid on 26 January. I’m amazed that you seem to think this raid was put together in only those six days. It was clearly planned for quite a long time under Obama. Part of the planning process is that the military lawyers review it, the JAGs, to ensure it conforms to the LOAC. Indeed, they’re involved throughout the planning process. If they hadn’t deemed the raid legal in all respects, it never would have gone forward. Unless you think the military just does whatever a President commands, any President, the law be damned. And if you think that, you couldn’t be more wrong.
The administration is, despite appearances, calling this a “successful operation.” They’re getting that from the Pentagon. If the Pentagon is saying that, then that means the operation conformed to two other general principles of the LOAC; proportionality and military necessity. The public is wildly misinformed about what proportionality means, as they MSM and other Hamas propagandists have to make up special rules for the Jews. They want the public to think if Hamas uses knives then “proportionality” means the IDF can’t use guns. It doesn’t. It means that any incidental harm to life or property must be proportional to the military advantage being sought. Clearly the JAG officers have reviewed the results and have decided that despite the civilian casualties the operation met that criteria. Military necessity would have been decided ahead of time. The planners would have had to convince them this was a military target, and that the raid against it was absolutely necessary.
The fourth general principle against causing unnecessary suffering has to do with weapons and methods of warfare, and would have been a non-issue since the SEALs as always used their issue/approved weapons and ammunition and fought according to doctrine.
sorry you lost me at apparently without some apparent reason…….
Compared to ISIS, the Taliban, AL Qaeda, Al Shabaab, etc., yes– we’re the good guys.
That’s probably a majority view in the U.S., but a vocal minority disagree with that view.
How long did it take for you to fabricate that story. Should have done some fact checking. Most Special Forces for example. Only in the Army Your comment includes a few others known as Special Operatons
As for warmongering if you want to stop that don’t vote for the party that hands down straight up has mongered more wars and killed off more soldiers than probably cancer. if you are a democrat by any other name that means your party.
Lastly, you should consider why we’re over there in the first place before you begin analyzing our military’s success. The killing has to stop, and the only way that will happen is if we understand the reasons we’re over there in the first place.
Yes, I know why we are there. I know why I was there. Not actually in the CENTCOM AOR. The closest I got was Diego Garcia, supporting CENTCOM.
Why don’t you tell me how we’re there because of Haliburton. You know you want to.
hell I got that far seven times as a civilian driving a cargo ship. Got all the way to Iraqui waters driving the same ship as a civilian. Which Steve is this?
Steve of one of Barack Obama’s 57 states. Who went wherever the Navy sent me. When they recalled me to active duty they sent me to Japan as I speak Japanese and had done liaison with the JMSDF while I was still on active duty.
COMNAVFORJAPAN became the regional commander of US Navy Support Facility Diego Garcia when COMNAVFORPHIL went away, otherwise I wouldn’t have even have got that close to CENTCOM.
Congratulations, Michael, on driving your ship to Iraq.
I thought one piloted a ship, not drove a ship.
I learn something everyday from you, and steve57 also.
You will also find we “steam” from port to port despite the fact gas turbines have been propelling ships for decades.
Yeah, I’m aware of the word ‘steam’ when it come to nautical movement; however the word ‘drive’ as in drive a ship is never used, never. I think you know this.
Then sir you are a moron. It was used here in a previous post and NO self-respecting sailor would ever use the word never. Mother-nature has a way of correcting that arrogance.
What is the “it” used in a previous post? Be clear.
Face it, Olly, nobody ‘drives’ ships.
So the word ‘never’ is restricted on navy vessels?
I did not know that.
Drive your boat, Olly.
Jose,
I’m pleased you are discovering new things. I long for the day you reciprocate.
Sure, Olly. I’m getting ready to ‘drive’ my ship to Cancun.
I wish all the sailors that used to ‘drive’ ships could come along.
But I wouldn’t trust anyone that says they know how to ‘drive’ a ship.
Admit it, your boys above exposed their pretentious fantasies with the word ‘drive’ instead of ‘pilot’, or for the short term ‘steer’, or many other nautical terms used for getting a vessel from one port to another — and none of those terms are ‘drive.’
In the nautical sense for ‘real’ sailoirs Jo Say to drive a ship is to work it hard, or in bad weather or close hauled. Don’t try to teach your Grandpa how to suck eggs? What kind of boat or ship do you sail? Is it a sailing boat or ?????? Can it drive off a leeward shore?
The best sailors in the world use the word “drive” when referring to taking a turn at the helm or tiller. Ask any, and I mean any, yachtsman.
Jose,
I sure would like to be able to assuage your ignorance of Navy lingo but those are days you likely won’t experience. Nevertheless, I wish you fair winds and following seas.
Michael,
Jose is as interested in driving or sailing as he is in any other topic on this blog. He’d be likely to argue that water isn’t wet if you described a 100 year flood. He’s a contrarian, and what’s worse is he doesn’t have the courage to expose his viewpoints.
I wondered why he doesn’t really speak for anyone. “Another one bites the dust. Another one bites the dust…..”
Sadly Michael, the two contributors I challenge the most are Jose and Issac I see both of them as clever regarding their posts, but they both have glaring weaknesses. Issac has NO intention of preserving our founding principles. Jose, well his contributions IMPLY he thinks like Issac but he lacks Issac’s courage in providing his original thoughts.
i dont give Isaac that much credit. His line follows the daily mantra from the secular extremists using their techniques too closely so I can’t give him points on originality. What’s his name the other one reminds me of someone with a bad case of the wanna be never wills – and not much more.
Drive your ship, boys.
We’ll all get to the other side somehow.
We will. You have yet to find the shoreline. and identified what is a boat.
“He’s a contrarian, and what’s worse is he doesn’t have the courage to expose his viewpoints.”
How do you know this, Olly?
Do you see the contradiction in your statement? Do you care if you do? Have you not read my comments and arrived at the conclusion of, “he’s a contrarian”?
I doubt it — as most others here, you just want to classify a person’s position so that you can attack it from your stated and erroneous stance — evidence be damned.
Olly…he just proved it again.
Go on with your ‘driving’ a ship, boys.
Of the billions of people in the world, and the millions of blogs one can contribute to, I’m very happy that you two have found each other.
I may have been intel, but I was in the brown shoe Navy. I graduated from AOCS, and all my sea duty tours or deployments were with the air wing, not ship’s company.
Our term for the SWOs, the black shoes, as shipdrivers, and their job was to drive their ships.
There’s nothing new about any of this verbage. I don’t know how far back this goes. It could go back to WWII. I know it goes back at least as far as Vietnam.
Olly,
“. . . the two contributors I challenge the most are Jose and Issac. . . .”
Wow, I’m impressed that I can make a few comments in just weeks and I’m in the big league of ‘challenge the most.’ I’m also surprised that you consider your responses challenging.
Very exciting, and also quite telling that of all the comments, you single me out, along with Issac [sic] of course.
If only you could respond to the few comments I’ve addressed directly to you without the banter and buttressing of more feeble minds then we might have an avenue of discussion.
This does not seem to be your direction; at least not yet. That’s OK, I understand.
Michael Aarethun,
“I wondered why he doesn’t really speak for anyone.”
I speak for myself, Michael.
I know this is a difficult concept for all the supposed ‘free thinkers’ here, but I speak for myself and require no external encouragement.
I don’t like mobs of any stripe; I disdain howls of commonality.
You got it?
“It was used here in a previous post and NO self-respecting sailor would ever use the word never.”
Do you mean to say that, NO self-respecting sailor would never use the word never?
Sounds like it. Quibble away while you ‘drive’ your ship.
I could easily dismiss Issac if he weren’t such a cancer on our system of government. Realistically he has no argument that favors republicanism and his ideology threatens the individual right to life, liberty and property.
Olly – does that mean that one day we will nuke from port to port?
Steve57, you’re too tough for me, my friend. Halliburton is a symptom of the problem, but not the problem.
And some of us can do without thinking the entire world is out to get us each and every day. It’s almost like you folks want that to happens so you can say you told us so.
The bottom line is that there’s no money in empathy. Smedley Butler said it best, but you go on believing what you want to. Capitalism is a crock chock full of shi’ite.
Steve,
You’ve been very clear you don’t like capitalism. Do you believe in natural rights?
“There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights.” Smedley Butler.
Unfortunately we didnt’ fight for them and are hoping to get them back if all goes well. Depends on how much the ACLU interferes.
Michael,
What Steve might argue is his understanding of economics within his worldview. Economics however produces raw data that is then dependent on how its analyzed. This is why I always come back to our natural right to life, liberty and property. If your worldview is NOT concerned with natural rights then economics is merely an instrument used to infringe the rights of those that don’t sing your tune.
Agreed but in that mode it’s called State Economics and earlier Fascist Economics and is described as Marxist Economics with a very thin veneer or patina of Capitalism. Obamanomics is a modern term for the same thing.and before that Clintonomics. Reaganomics did fail and he admittted it along with inability to downsize Government. But then he was a politician and Trump is an outsider who still can’t spell politics. But he does understand business.
Just what we needed!!!
Let him do the job he was elected to do and erase the board except for the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. 5,000 words and the rest tabula rasa.with the benefit of a clear understanding of History and a good dose of Moral Philosophy with emphasis on not repeating the failures and mistakes.
Of course I do, but I think one should better define “natural rights” before carrying on this train of thought.
Would you include in your definition of natural rights the right to be let alone by government including egalitarianism in law and law enforcement to its exclusion from one’s bedroom and telecommunications to stop and frisk detentions, and the right to health care, clean air and clean water? I think a civilized society grants these things as a matter of right.
What’s your definition?
Try reading the Constitution again and then justify the depredations of the progressive extremists iwhich inlcude the RINO republican right wing OF the left in stripping us of those exact things including civil rights you might get a clue why we Constitution as the Center advocates got tired of the extremist shite and kicked your one party two faced system OUT!
You cannot blame your right or left hand for the acts of the other. The Century of Fascist Tyranny is OVER!
Michael, I don’t know what the problem you’re having is, but you just don’t get that fascism is the corporate state, and our president is part and parcel of it just like the rest of them in the modern era. It’s a corrupt government. There’s no money in empathy.
Move over Mexico. We’re number one in corruption.
I really dislike people who are both uneducated and intentionally stupid. Fascism as a system ‘small f’ and a political movement ‘F’ large F was invented by a nationalist prone leader of the Italian Socialist Party and his group. Benito Mussolini. The three branches of fascism by their original definition replaced King or Government including military, Church and population with Socialist Statists, Socialist Corporatists and Socialist Labor.That particular refinement was used by Adolf Hitler antoher National Socialist. The other main arm of the Socialist movement were the International Socialist led by Lenin.
National and International Socialist vied to be top dogs and went at it and thus began the century of the Socialist Wars of which a third branch in the USA called progressives also joined and eventually triumphed in the world of Socialism. Thus Corporatists, Statists and Labor Leaders. Same as we have here with Progressives being true to their roots.
Corporatists are to the right of the center of the left but they are not to the right of THE center which in Constitutional Republic is the Constitution. The difference between you Nazis and you Communists and you Secular Progressives are very minor mostly in who owns everything. Communists the Internatinalist claimi complete ownership and control following the Plato line through Kant etc. Nazis and Fascists the National Socialists modify that by allowing heavily controlled private ownership by the Corporatists ergo sum Marxist Economics becomes Fascist Economics and that is modified somewhat into State Economics defined as Marxist Economics .with a very thing coating, or patina of Capitalism but heeavily controlled.
There’s not a dimes worth of difference between the three.
Your out of your league in his blog if you don’t know basic history but then making up new stories every day and new definitions must make it very hard to keep it all straight.
All we have to remember as Constitutionalists using Representative principles of both the Greek systems is
Seig Me No Heils Comrade We Do Not Serve Your Party.
Instead we use “Support and Defend The Constitution of the United States of America against al enemies foreign and domestic. Learn that last word and remember it.
Michael:
“I really dislike people who are both uneducated and intentionally stupid.” Isn’t this self-defeating criticism?
I do enjoy the self-deprecation, but you don’t have to wear it on your sleeve.
Then how come even the most enlightened formerly socialist countries are switching to market capitalism with a social conscious perhaps but laughing at socialism? Most recent example is Sweden..
Finland is going the other way and will it seems surpass Greece. Smedley Butler is crock full of shite.
“Smedley Butler is crock full of shite.”
Right, and Trump thinks Frederick Douglas is doing a good job.
Steve Groen – I would go so far as to say that Butler is a barrel full of shitte.
Paul, call any living Medal of Honor winner, let alone one awarded it twice, something like that. How quickly one forgets.
Steve Groen – just because he won the Medal of Honor twice does not mean he has anything to say of value on the subject. Personally, I am ignorant of gasoline automobiles. Don’t take my word for anything about them, except where the gasoline might go, and even that is a guess.
Don’t identify yourself to anyone from the Corps.
Steve Groen,
What is your understanding of why we are over there?
The former President is using or was using it as a cover for his pecadillos and failures in our own country and war is always useful for the purpose with the leftists. Why would you arm some other group and then pick a fight with them?
Well, that’s a pretty broadly-worded question, and it doesn’t go to the central point Steve57 makes of special operations command having a policy of committing war crimes as if it’s just collateral damage.
I sense you’re ready to pounce, but in a hundred words or less, if you’re thinking about the post-Reagan era, apart from our general strategy of keeping our oil source states happy, controlling the oil fields from Russian influence, and maintaining the US Dollar as the petrocurrency to prevent an economic depression otherwise, we’re over there because 41 gave Saddam the green light to take the port of “Umm Qasr as well as control of the nearby Kuwaiti islands of Bubiyan and Warbah” (from the “Umm Qasr” page at Wikipedia) in the Persian Gulf.
Then, Saddam tried to capture all of Kuwait instead, which pissed off all of the Arab states, most importantly the Saudi royals and Egypt, and which brought on the Gulf War and the never-ending aftermath. The result has no doubt generally benefited the US if one can forgive the slaughter of innocent citizens of foreign sovereigns, the needless mayhem of physically and emotionally-scarred veterans walking our streets for no good reason, and the brainwashing and increasingly authoritarian, military state we’re now in. I can’t.
Please refrain from providing legal bases for our presence in the Middle East, knowing the lack of genuine foundation for nearly all of it and knowing the US refuses to become a member state of the ICC.
It’s all political. Human beings have been dying over there for over a quarter of a century as a direct result of our politics, when we shouldn’t have been there in the first place. Our economy and standard of living is unsustainable, even with the bloodshed we’re creating in trying to maintain it. It’s only a matter of time until the country loses its ability to bully, and our children will pay heavily for the mistake.
It goes back further than a quarter century and we already started paying when terrorism reached our shores your about a quarter century late. But the best news is having all the technical manuals on how to make improvised bombs and boobytraps and explsoives declassified and put on the open market world wide didn’t help You can thank Carter for that one.
Available on Amazon in Kindle form just for the asking or 1.99 cents Progressivism at it’s best.
The war crimes comment as usual had no basis in fact provided but I do recall bombing hospitals and embassies in Kosovo ….was that what your were referring to perhaps? Are you saying Clinton was Special Ops? ha ha ha ha ha
Steve Groen,..
There are a variety of reasons given for blaming America for the growth of terrorism.
( Sykes-Picot, support for Israel, support for Mujahideen, etc.).
Your position that the origins of the wave of terrorism
can be found in GULF WAR I is a less common position.
“Every Muslim carries hated toward Americans, Jews, and Christians, this being part of our idealogy.
EVERY SINCE I CAN RECALL, I felt at war with Americans and have and have feelings of animosity torward them.”
-Osama Bin Laden
Bin Laden was born in 1957, and his memory predated GULF WAR I.
A “hands off” policy when Saddam annexed Kuwait would have changed the landscape in the Middle East.
I don’t think those changes would have been positive.
There were very few nationa that supported Saddam’s invasion and planned annexation of Kuwait.
There was near universal condemnations of that invasion.
There were also about 3 dozen other countries that participated in the coalition to eject Saddam from Kuwait.
There was an extended debate in Congress
over the shift from Desert Shield to Desert Storm.
One of the disadvantages of continuing Desert Storm indefinately was pointed out by the Bush administration.
That is, that keeping hundreds of thousands of non-Muslims troops in a Muslim country indefinately was not desirable.
The other problem with maintaining a purely defensive position did nothing to restore Kuwait’s sovereignty.
But even IF one believes that it Gulf War I was a mistake, and is the major cause of subsequent terrorism, Bin Laden’s own world view and objectives and the statement that quoted point something more fundamental than Gulf War I as the primary cause of sunsequent terrorism.
The Wahhabi belief that non-Muslims are infidels and should be hated and targeted is a big part of that fundamental reason.
Should be “continuing Desert SHIELD indefinately”.
tnash: I find it hard to believe that anyone would claim that the Gulf War was started by something other than Saddam’s invasion of Kuwait, at least as the catalyst. The underlying reasons were economic and still are.
It’s a given that the Sunnis (including Wahhabis) and the Shia will continue to be at each other’s throat for centuries. That’s their thing, but apart from oil, control of the oil fields, and maintaining the otherwise worthless US dollar as the petrocurrency at every peril, we still have to look to our economy for other reasons we’re still there.
Our central bank, the Fed is controlling this country and running it into the ground. My understanding is that all economists agree that disparity in wealth has never been greater. The top 1% owns more wealth than the other 99%, and 62 individuals (most of whom are US citizens) own more wealth than half the world (roughly 3.5 billion people). 50% of the US lives at or under the poverty line, and over half the country cannot pay for a $500 emergency without credit. It’s never been like that, ever. What’s worse is that worker productivity has increased over the past 20 years, and adjusted income to the working class has consistently gone down while the wealthy have become richer. Total outstanding consumer credit debt each year has exceeded a two trillion dollars per year since 2012. How then could this have happened under a capitalist system?
Janet Yellen and crew at the Fed have given us quantitative easing as monetary policy, which amounts to printing valueless paper money at will and then reducing interest rates, both of which hurt the working class. There’s a flood of money into the market place. The wealthy buy it up at next to nothing, and the financial services industry gets to make new records. What do they do with it? Two examples, both of which serve only the wealthy and those who love them:
Construction. Take a look at the expansion in your nearest city, including new high-rise and single-family tract residential housing, for example. Or malls. Then they sell them at a profit, although very few can afford to live in these residences and are excluded nor can they buy at the malls partly because it’s easier and cheaper to buy on the internet if they can afford it. They’re all half vacant and the malls are abandoned.
Mergers and acquisition. Big companies buy up the competitors and merge, and to make the new entity more efficient, it cuts jobs and hires at lower wage. The larger entity then crushes smaller businesses in the industry.
This adversely affects the fiscal policy of our government, which borrows and expects to pay its creditors with tax revenue. The wealthy get richer and don’t spend very much. The working class has less income to spend, the government brings in less tax revenue, and the national debt grows exponentially, as we’ve seen with 43 and 44.
What does this have to do with the Middle East? As I mentioned, Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler’s claim that “War is a racket,” was appropriate. While the rich get richer with quantitative easing, and the tax base gets poorer, war stimulates an otherwise stagnant economy through the military-industrial complex, while the government is taking in relatively less revenue. The carrot is that the wealthy have made military pay and benefits now better than what most recruits could hope to make on the outside and convinces the public it’s a patriotic duty for good pay and a humanitarian effort, when it’s all pretext to cover the wealthy’s rising good fortunes. The servicemembers who are lucky enough to end a tour with a healthy body and mind tell the community how good the military was to them, how much good it’s doing in the Middle East (and look at how proudly he or she wears those medals!), and how such policy can make us all the quintessential “patriot” if we just try hard enough and play by all the rules we’ve been given, while at the same time failing to reveal (through no fault of the servicemember) the less-than-altruistic economic purposes for being there.
It won’t get any better until we realize the Fed has to go. It’s running the country.
That’s a lot of premises in one debate are you going to do the full presentation with the back up, facts, sites, cites, sources in the next month’s issue? or just let it die the death of unsupported self opinion.
I really thought a good line to follow sequentially would be hwo the two Bush’s created so many federal police agencies, and started the two wars one of which is still going, in order to Red Herring odds and ends like Kosovo, Purple Dresses, balanced budgets that weren’t and Affordable Health Care that isn’t?
War always seems to be the progressives answer aince Woodrow Wilson when they get in trouble. Wilson FDR, Truman, LBJ etc. and now Clinton Bush Obama. You aren’t much at debate but damn can you folks start wars!
All wars are economic in their base reasoning the rest is just propaganda.
“All wars are economic in their base reasoning the rest is just propaganda.”
You are using the word “base” as an adjective, when it is not an adjective. What do you mean by the sentence I have quoted above?
REJECTED attempt at reframing and redefining . Get a real dictionary instead of a PC Fictionary twit. i have no more time for your social promotion level drivel. Try Paul he has much more patience with the intellectually unprepared and fully challenged. Easeir to just write you off as a Rejectable. Did you figure out what Menshevik means?
Michael: “[B]ase” is not an adjective. Look it up before you start teaching and refusing to be a student. And, if you would be so kind, please explain the term “base reasoning.”
Steve Groen – base reasoning would be bottom reasoning or beginning reasoning. You don’t often see the phrase used, but I have seen it used. Not used it myself.
Thanks, Paul.
Here’s why Trump is harping on muslims:
I thoght I remembered that name. One of Hillary’s propagandists. Another post bites the dust.
Steve Groen,
-I did not say that GULF WAR I was started for any other reason than Saddam’s invasion of Iraq.
To back up a little and try for a little clarity and continuity:
You said earlier in this thread that that a. The killing has to stop, and B. That won’t happen until we understand the reasons why we”re over there.
That led to my question ” Why do YOU think we’re over there?
You responded with a review of Gulf War I.
I don’t see an easy or early end to the conflict with terrorisrs, nor do I primarily blame the U.S. for causing the conflicts cused by terrorism.
My earlier response stated my view that there are far more fundamental reasons for terrorism.
Your response to me started with challenging a claim I never made.
Then morphed into to a lengthy manifesto about the Fed, Petrodoollars, etc.
I would like to keep an exchange with you on topic and on track.
I see that that ain’t gonna happen.
Ever stand in front of a bus while it’s doing 30 miles an hour. You have to go back as few stops unless you can jump out of the way. This particular bus was authorized by the the War Powers Act. Mr. Obama chose to call it a continuation all the while saying he would pull everyone out. That didn’t happen until when the second time in office or just before. Then he went after Afghanistan, put troops back into Iraw and a dozen other place. You see the fault if any lay with whoever didn’t fix the brakes on the bus before it left the first stop.
“I really dislike people who are both uneducated and intentionally stupid.”
Isn’t this self-defeating criticism? I really do enjoy the self-deprecation, but you don’t have to wear it on your sleeve.
How you despise yourself is not my problem. nor is your educational level. Who ever you are. or aren’t
Trump is the commander & chief. Hypocrites didn’t have a problem when secretary of the army Eric Fanning was grand marshal of a gay pride parade. Here’s Eric in the video.
Tempest/Teapot.
They broke no regulation as far as I can see, Trump is a sitting president not a candidate…
Here we have volunteer warriors defending our country proudly displaying the flat of their CINC and people are outraged and want them kicked out of the service…YET you have Black Block anarchists flying their black flag destroying property and injuring innocent people and some of those outraged above were defending the anarchists yesterday.
WTF is wrong with you people!?
Olly,
The military takes an oath to the constitution of the US, not to the president. Once the military bows down to a person, not the rule of law, you have open dictatorship. (We had dictatorship under Obama, just not open in the same way.)
“The military takes an oath to the constitution of the US, not to the president.”
After 20 years in the Navy I’m fully aware of that.
If you believe these SEALS would dishonor their team, their Navy or their country by bowing to a suit then you clearly have no idea what motivates these men to serve. If you want an example of what you are talking about then find the pic with Obama and the Saudis.
Olly,
Seal teams have done horrible things which dishonor our nation. Don’t you know this? Here’s just one example:
https://theintercept.com/2017/01/10/the-crimes-of-seal-team-6/
This is what Steve was trying to say. Instead of being so nasty lately, is there any way you would be willing to have conversations as you did before? Otherwise, I’ll wish you well but not respond.
Jill,
I appreciate your tone and respect your point. If you want to paint every SEAL with the same brush then I’ll defend every one of them. If you want to be more specific and identify when man’s human nature is exposed, then that’s an entirely different discussion.
We just got rid of the dishonor to our nation. But the century old stain will remain for a while longer.
But in honor of the SEALS may i invite you to BIGHT ME. Thats where I live when not in Latin America..
Olly,
Thank you for understanding.
I don’t think I was attacking every SEAL. I was saying that what these SEALs (both the ones who flew the Trump flag and the ones in the article) were doing is wrong and dangerous in a democracy. It’s so important to follow the rule of law. Right now, I see a cult of personality forming around Trump. It reminds me of the cult of personality I saw with Obama.
Anytime I see that I am worried. People start ignoring things like the truth, the Constitution, and they excuse behavior that should not be excused. That’s a dangerous reaction by our citizens. Under Obama, as you know from this blog, people would not call anything wrong. Yet what he was doing was wrong. A few days ago a poster called the Berkeley rioting “unfortunate”. It was not unfortunate, it was wrong. Just so, what these SEALs are doing is simply wrong and it needs to be said plainly, without excuse.
In a democracy but don’t live in a democracy we live in and pay attention a Representative Constitutional Republic. Democracy was rejected by the founders except at the very lowest grass roots level and then applies only until a government of any size is formed and someone directly elected. There are two major hiccups that make this even moreso NOT a democracy. One is giving the directly elected official certain powers and the second is giving up control of the employee. For 31 states its end of term. For 19 States it’s recall.
I totally agree with you, Olly. When Jill joins the Navy SEALS and serves our country in such a manner, then and only then do her comments become credible.
Yes! Only service members have a say in our country’s future.
It’s so apparent that this is the solution to all our discourse.
Jose,
Bootcamp has a way of resetting one’s priorities. Whether you like it or not it forces one to shed some of that ego we all have. Our culture could use a bit more humility and serving something greater than yourself is just the ticket.
You’re right, Olly; humility is needed. You made your decisions, I made mine.
The militaristic angst you express is your own. Patriotism has many forms, Olly. You should consider that your path is not the only one.
For example, why don’t you tell Squeek that she needs to join the Marines before you take her comments seriously?
What will she do with all her cats?
If one read the book instead of going to see Heidi’s Pimp in the movie one would find that sentiment put this way by the author Heinlein. If enough to not come forward voluntarily to perform a service to the community it isn’t worth doing. If enough come forward voluntarilyily it is worth doing.
And for those who support keeping the draft in force may I say you are not worth doing and that, in a nutshell, we decided to do without ….you. Especially the second class female citizens who get the benefits with out earning them and who turned their backs on their sisters i favor of Bubbas Cute Butt.
That is not true and it’s not true only because you have a military sworn to protect your rights and your responsibilities. The only time military gets a say is on voting day and the day after discharge or retirement. for one example and when the military upholds it’s oath of office. That’s two.
Maybe some are tired of the claim of ‘defending’ our country vs. warmongering.