Daniel Kennedy, 18, and his 16-year-old brother were arrested this week after allegedly overturning a Girl Scout table and attacking the family over a $20 debt. The two Florida teens confronted the family outside of a Palm Coast Wal-Mart over the debt and then demanded payment in cookies. When the family refused, bedlam ensued (and was captured on surveillance cameras).
The Ketchum family was selling the cookies. They said that Daniel Kennedy turned over the table and started throwing punches including at Lisa Ketchum. Thomas Ketchum Sr., 49, was found by police lying on his back. He was still recovering from open heart surgery just three days previously and complained of chest pains.
Daniel Kennedy was charged with disorderly conduct and three counts of battery while his younger brother faces disorderly conduct and one count of battery.
My guess is that Daniel Kennedy was not asking for “Thanks-a-lot” cookies.
The slapstick’s got more humor here.
How appalling. Do they still open the patient’s ribs when performing open heart surgery? To have been assaulted in a fist fight 3 days afterwards…those two brothers may well be charged with murder if he passes away. And the poor kids must be absolutely traumatized.
Where are we going wrong raising kids to the point that so many seem to have missed out on the most basic foundations – men do not hit women, they do not terrorize kids or flip over cookie tables, they do not make public scenes over a small debt. Those boys were thugs and now they’re in a cage. If they didn’t respect authority before, now they are well and truly screwed. Because now they will need permission for every move they make, and be told what and when to eat. What a waste. But they truly seem out of control and a danger to society.
I hope Thomas Ketchum, Sr recovers, and that the family, especially all the kids involved, get over this shock.
Karen – shirley there is something that we are missing in this story. We are only getting part of the story. You do not go bonkers over $20, even for Girl Scout cookies.
You’re right that we don’t have all the information. I cannot conceive of any exculpatory circumstances, unless an alien parasitic worm connected with their brains and governed their actions. (I do like sci fy). But, maybe a crate of bananas had opened and they slipped and flung their fists out whilst trying to regain their balance. I suppose that will come out at their trial.
And don’t call me Shirley. (I really need to buy Airplane.
Where are we going wrong raising kids to the point that so many seem to have missed out on the most basic foundations – men do not hit women, they do not terrorize kids or flip over cookie tables, they do not make public scenes over a small debt.
You have apparently not noticed that rates of violent crime have been tanking for a generation. Women are not given as much particular deference as they once were because their manners and morals have gone to pot.
they do not terrorize kids or flip over cookie tables,
It was a verbal altercation between their mother and Mama Ketchum. Papa Ketchum got hisself slugged when he happened upon the argument while exiting the store and attempted to detain Mama Kennedy’s mini Loomis gang.
Darn. They were just beginning to turn their lives around, too.
Have some tolerance for these two young men they were only rehearsing for a position with the “We Never Sleep Collection Agency”. Next week was Break A Leg or Arm 101.
An example of thugs in the making.
Turnabout is fair play. The punks need to be beaten up by other inmates while in jail. Punks.
Assuming there is a $20 debt and assuming the creditors were willing to take cookies to satisfy the debt, to that point I do not see a problem. The question I suppose is how many cookies to satisfy the debt? If the amount is equal, why not?
I guess the punches thrown at the mom and recently cut upon dad are just the receipts.
Really, really, yugely lame today; against dual nationalities-the most valuable ingredient determining the enlightenment of a nation, Girl Scouts working off debts with cookie sales…. What’s next?
If the debtors had satisfied the debt at the retail price of the cookies (instead of the wholesale), they would have come out ahead financially, and avoided some bruises. There is a huge mark-up on Girl Scout cookies.
TIN – my understanding is that the individual Girl Scouts and Brownies make no profit from the cookies. The troop and council make money. The kids get badges.
Learn to be patient, and don’t take law into your own hands. There are authorities in charge!
Peter:
Those authorities would be us.
Two words for these two degenerate white trash/apparent dope head/inbreds: “surveillance camera.”
I respectfully request someone provide details about the debt, about which I have no idea how it fits the narrative.
Darrin,
I respectfully suggest you offer your independent services to local prosecutors. Your charges look much sexier than the alleged professional prosecutor’s.
Thank you Joseph.
My experience with deputy prosecutors is they are often unable to think outside the box when it comes to unusual or seldom used criminal charges. I don’t know if was the case in this example, and I am surely not familiar with the intricacies of Florida case law, but I found that unless you bring the charges yourself (in the case of felonies by information or arrest charge depending on their criminal procedure), it is not often a prosecutor will make an amendment prior to arraignment to make esoteric use of the law.
I suppose to some degree it is common through out the criminal justice field, as it tends to be set in its own ways and doesn’t often like to deviate from the way things have been done for years. Some that have been in the field for more than 20 years are almost allergic to change. Frankly I found this aspect boring and frustrating.
My experience with deputy prosecutors is they are often unable to think outside the box when it comes to unusual or seldom used criminal charges.
It’s a tacky quarrel over a $20 debt. Why should they?
Well – this could go South quickly. Mr Ketchum just had open heart surgery. They open up your chest and, depending on what they are repairing, could have artery grafts or artificial valves or some other delicate repair still settling in. I’m actually surprised he was out of the hospital after only a few days. And he’d very very vulnerable to infection.
He may have to undergo surgery to fix the damage getting punched repeatedly may have done. He may have a poorer prognosis. He may have had a heart attack which permanently scarred his heart. Or worse things could happen.
In a way, it was lucky that he experienced chest pains because he would have been rushed to the hospital to get a thorough workup without delay.
This wasn’t just flipping over a table and frightening kids, with no one actually hurt. This was punching a mom, punching a dad who just had open heart surgery, and the possibility of some very serious consequences to his surgery.
These young thugs are a menace. If they would punch someone’s mom over $20, right in front of her kids, in full view of the public, what are they going to do if they’re let free with a slap on the wrist? From my perspective, they’re past that and need to be scared straight, or at least give the public a break from them. They’re pretty badly lost. (Full disclosure, I am non clear if they punched the mom on accident during the fight, or if it was on purpose. Either way, this is a mess.)
Well – this could go South quickly. Mr Ketchum just had open heart surgery. They open up your chest and, depending on what they are repairing, could have artery grafts or artificial valves or some other delicate repair still settling in. I’m actually surprised he was out of the hospital after only a few days. And he’d very very vulnerable to infection.
It doesn’t seem to occur to you that the fact that he was discharged from the hospital and not convalescing at home indicates he likely did not have major invasive surgery.
This was punching a mom, punching a dad who just had open heart surgery, and the possibility of some very serious consequences to his surgery.
Karen, it’s a common assault. It’s a banal crime. The fact that she’s a ‘mom’ means not one blessed thing in this context.
Two words for these two degenerate white trash/apparent dope head/inbreds:
See Stanley Crouch’s Flip Test.
These two offenders are lucky they were not charged with Racketeering Crimes. In my opinion it is a preferable charge to simply Assault and Disorderly Conduct.
Because of the use reported violence, the two used extortionate means to collect on an extension of credit. This fits the definition under Title XXXIX Chapter 687.071(1)(e)
The definition then couples with Title XLVI Chapter 895.02(8)(a)(20)
and further:
Darren:
Their is no evidence that, at the time the debt was made, the parties had any understanding that a delay in repaying would result in violence per the definition you provided. Hence an element of the crime is not met. You stick to enforcing, we’ll stick to lawyering including prosecution of charges.
The statute reads:
” at the time an extension of credit is made that delay in making repayment or failure to make repayment could result in the use of violence or other criminal ”
~+~
An extension of credit remains in effect as long as the debt is outstanding, unless otherwise it is either charged off, withdrawn, or the debt is satisfied or in the case of revolving credit it remains in effect as long as both parties agree to a fixed credit limit with a provision for variable balances under terms of the original agreement. It does not mean only the time at which the agreement was first made. If the statute was designed only for the moment at which the extension of credit was first made, it would be completely unenforceable with regard to loansharking or extortionate loan making. Reason being, the loan shark would not mention at the moment of agreement that a possible criminal act committed against the debtor but if later the debtor defaulted, he would be immune from prosecution. I very much doubt the Florida Legislature, or the federal government for that matter, would craft lengthy racketeering legislation only to make such a glaring loophole. How many racketeers encode into verbal or written contracts a provision that includes language that explicitly mentions that if a default occurs, a beating will ensue? But if during the duration of the loan the creditor threatens the debtor with violence the debt becomes an extortionate extension of credit.
Good luck with thsty
That’s a very interesting discussion on racketeering.
So, if I understand correctly, if someone goes to a loan shark and agrees to pay 35% interest on a loan, and there is no mention of any penalty for non payment other than forfeiture of assets (of which the borrower has none), if the lender then sends out a heavy to break the borrower’s kneecaps after they default, that could still be charged with racketeering. The threat of violence is not required at the outset, or needed to be proved that it was present at loan origination?