Bizarre, Criminal law, Politics, Religion, Society

Alabama Auditor Defends Roy Moore: “Mary was a teenager and Joseph was an adult carpenter. They became parents of Jesus.”

Jim-Zeigler-228x300Murillo_immaculate_conceptionAlabama Senate candidate Roy Moore has long been controversial and I will readily admit to being one of his most vocal critics over his defiance of legal authority and extremist views.  However, he is now perfectly radioactive after allegations that he initiated sexual contact with a 14-year-old when he was in his 30s.  Perhaps the strangest defense came from Alabama state auditor Jim Ziegler (right) told the Washington Examiner that, if Moore did engage in pedophilia, it was “much ado about nothing.”: “Take Joseph and Mary. Mary was a teenager and Joseph was an adult carpenter. They became parents of Jesus.” In the meantime, Moore has called his multiple accusers as people engaging in “intentional defamation.”  What is clear is someone is lying.  If Moore is telling the truth, the next step would presumably be a defamation lawsuit.  The same can be said for these four women who have now been called liars.  This is a time when a little litigation would go a long way.

Ziegler’s comments were clearly designed to appeal to Moore’s base. Moore became a household name by defying courts over Christian displays at the courthouse and waging a virtual war on the notion of separation of church and state.  Ziegler’s statement is chillingly reminiscent over our prior discussion of Muslim clerics opposing bans on child brides because Mohammad married a 6 year old girl and consummated the marriage when she was just 9 years old (here and here and here and here).

Ziegler insisted that “There is nothing to see here” and that, at most, “The allegations are that a man in his early 30s dated teenage girls. Even the Washington Post report says that he never had sexual intercourse with any of the girls and never attempted sexual intercourse.”  If Moore did try to date teenagers as an adult man, Zieglar insisted that “There’s just nothing immoral or illegal here. Maybe just a little bit unusual.”

It is an appalling defense and Moore notably is not trying to defend such conduct as opposed to outright denying all four allegations as “fake news.”  Various GOP leaders have either called for Moore to withdraw from the race or consider withdrawing.  The Senate GOP has blocked any fundraising for Moore in light of the allegations.

The women accusing Moore were between 14 and 18 when Moore allegedly committed these acts.  The Washington Post says that it was researching another subject when its reporters began to hear that Moore had a reputation for pursuing young girls.

Leigh Corfman was 24 when she said that Moore molested her.  The other three woman do not alleged physical assault beyond kissing.

Moore insisted that all of the women were lying and that “The forces of evil will lie, cheat, steal –– even inflict physical harm –– if they believe it will silence and shut up Christian conservatives.” Of course, if Moore is lying, he would be oner of the biggest and most evil frauds in the history as a man who ran on the religious right while hiding his prior history as a pedophile.

Then there are these women. If these allegations are false, they would be equally evil liars destroying a man’s reputation for political purposes.

In other words, there is clear defamation.  In cases like this, I often wait to see who sues first.  Discovery on a defamation claim is a chilling prospect for a public liar.  While Moore is subject to the New York Times v. Sullivan standard as a public figure, he could seek to show knowing falsehood or reckless disregard of the truth if there is no evidence to support these claims. Indeed, his statements suggest that there is no truth at all to these allegations.  For the women, Moore just gave them a gift if they are telling the truth.  By defaming them, they could not pull him into court and, more importantly, discovery.

So let’s see who will sue first.

145 thoughts on “Alabama Auditor Defends Roy Moore: “Mary was a teenager and Joseph was an adult carpenter. They became parents of Jesus.””

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  3. Not really sure where to start with comment: But Moore was a Assistant DA, then a DA and a judge. Holding criminal’s accountable for there actions. But now it seems that he is defending his right to break the LAW!!! And he acts like He is above the LAW. But he has broke the LAW and like any other criminal He should be held accountable for his actions!!!!! Corruption seems to be invading our Government, it needs to stop. The Bible say’s we are to abide by the law’s of our Country. Christians live by the word of God, they do not defend this Mans actions!!!!

    1. Except this is only hearsay unless a criminal charge is filed and he is tried and convicted. I’m not a fan of Roy Moore’s, but the character assassination last year was a crime in itself.

  4. Lie detector tests. Give one to Moore and then to the women who say he was bad. Are lie detector tests not reliable? Let us have a topic.

    2. No, lie detector tests are not perfect. People who failed them were, in fact, innocent when further investigated.

  6. “So let’s see who will sue first,” Professor Turley.

    Moore should file the lawsuit prior to the election, then drop it at an appropriate point in the future, unless he knows he wouldn’t survive discovery.

    1. All parties are “marketing” their bombs at strategic junctures.

      Moore must respond in kind with a temporary action to be withdrawn post-election.

  7. Pingback: No Moore? « Abuse « Crime « The Pink Flamingo

  8. There is a huge difference between Mary and Joseph’s case and Moore’s case. Mary’s marriage as customary at the time was arranged by her parents and Joseph. Can Moore’s show any proof of an agreement with the 14 year old victim’ s parents for a marriage ceremony or any other situation?

    I cannot understand how people who should be educated based in the position they hold when somebody in their political party does something wrong, make such inappropriate and baseless statements.

  9. Yessss, isn’t it lovely. When it was a Liberal problem it was so convenient. Oh, look at Weinstein, Spacey, etc & all the Liberals. Conveniently forgetting how deviant the Republicans usually are & it’s only a matter of time until something comes out again.
    But, only the Liberals shall pay, huh? It’s not us, it’s them. Our abuse of children is cleansed by the bible. We’re puritan. The Republicans are boxed in on this one& the only way out is to condemn Moore but they won’t do that, will they?
    Both sides, right? That’s where Repubs show true colors. Democrats throw their people under the bus in moments like this & Repubs just embrace them.

      1. Has a crime by Moore be proven?

        Monica Lewinsky provided evidence as a stain of Bill Clinton’s DNA on her sweater.

        The evidentiary proof against John Edwards was a living human being illegitimately birthed.

        1. I’m not familiar with Democrats throwing a candidate under the bus. Roy Moore won his candidacy through an electoral process. The rules are the rules. He was the candidate. Knowing all Moore’s failings, why was he nominated instead of Strange? Could Democrats vote for a Republican?

      1. Ken, that is not true! The Republicans wanted Strange, that was obvious. But the rules of nomination via primary chose Moore.

    3. “Democrats throw their people under the bus in moments like this” – like the standing ovation given by Meryl Streep et al when pedophile Roman Polanski won an Oscar? They protected the worst kept secret of Harvey Weinstein’s abuse of women. The casting couch has been a cliche for decades. Did they throw Bill Clinton under the bus when his abuse of women came out? Or did they savage his accusers?

      Abusing women is wrong no matter who does it. What does politics have to do with it? Ziegler has been soundly denounced. Moore has his political supporters and foes. As far as the accusation, as with all accusations, we need to thoroughly investigate it and judge accordingly.

      There has long been a double standard for Republicans and Democrats. The DNC do not want the standards they hold Republicans to, to apply to them. See the Russiagate scandal where the DNC accused Trump of what they actually did – i.e. paid Russia for a completely fabricated document, rigged the primary, and tried to fraudulently affect the outcome of the election to favor their own candidate.

    4. Jimmy, it seems to me Repubs are throwing Moore under the bus. Alabama may pull it out. Lots of anger at outsiders messing with their choice. And Repubs suggest postponing the election further out.

  10. hello, just wanted to let u know why i’m unsubscribeing from ur blog, i really enjoyed it and realize that it’s a diverse community w/opinions i may radically disagree with. squeeky froom girl reporter’s blatant racism is really vile she has referred African Americans as” monkeys” put up a video 11/10 w/the word nigglet in the title. i do don’t waste my time in real life w/racits like her in real life and sure won’t read her garbage on yours sincerely, Karen Tuohey

    1. Wait. I don’t get it. Are you saying you’re finally going to “pursue happiness” and emigrate back to Africa for your own good? Like you’re going to “fundamentally transform” your life to greater happiness? That’s funny cuz that’s what “Crazy Abe” Lincoln recommended: Compassionate repatriation so that freed slaves might obtain a sense of nationhood and self-esteem. Ya know, Moses was a great leader and he had the Israelite slaves out of Egypt before the ink was dry on their release papers for the benefit of those freed slaves. They were ecstatic when the got to the “promised land.”

        1. Which, freedom and the “pursuit of happiness” or the statement by Abraham Lincoln? You do believe that Abraham Lincoln enjoyed the freedom of speech as does every other American, right?

          To wit,

          Abraham Lincoln –

          “If all earthly power were given me,” said Lincoln in a speech delivered in Peoria, Illinois, on October 16, 1854, “I should not know what to do, as to the existing institution [of slavery]. My first impulse would be to free all the slaves, and send them to Liberia, to their own native land.” After acknowledging that this plan’s “sudden execution is impossible,” he asked whether freed blacks should be made “politically and socially our equals?” “My own feelings will not admit of this,” he said, “and [even] if mine would, we well know that those of the great mass of white people will not … We can not, then, make them equals.”

        3. Wait. What were “Cracker” by Michael Che on SNL and Azealia Banks’ tweets in which she penned another expletive-filled note Wednesday attacking Sarah Palin, “crackers,” and “whitey.”

          The 24-year-old rapper issued a series of since-deleted tweets that suggested Palin should be gang-raped and forced to perform oral sex on a group of black men, and that the incident should be filmed and uploaded to the website WorldStarHipHop.

          “Sarah Palin needs to have her hair shaved off to a buzz cut, get headf—ked by a big veiny, ashy, black d—k then be locked in a cupboard,” Banks wrote in a tweet that was later deleted but screen-shotted by Media Research Center.

          “Honestly… Let’s find the biggest burliest blackest n—es and let them run a train on her. Film it and put it on worldstar,”
          ____________________________________________________________________________________

          “KILL WHITEY” – sign at Trump rally.

          Lori Hendry @Lrihendry

          Illegals protesting w signs “Kill Whitey” #TRUMP was right! #Mexico NOT sending their best & brightest! #Trump2016 pic.twitter.com/aw4d6cZpYG

          💞Blondi💣 @TonyaLM824

          @Lrihendry if that Libtard came to Louisiana w/ his Kill Whitey sign, he’d be gator bait. It’s illegal & direct threat. Shameful thugs
          ____________________________________________________________________________________

          “We are five days away from fundamentally transforming the United States of America.”
          ____________________________________________________________________________________

          Now that’s UGLY!

        4. Camparing Mary and Joseph with Moore’s situation only made the visual worce. This is the Establishment Republicans trying to keep D.C In the swamp. We almost have the third party everyone wants. Watching the “quit” suggestions from McConnell and McCain I don’t think Tax Reform has a chance. Unless we have some dirt to threaten with (when they go low, we go low!). This is not a play nice situation.

          The disaster of any attempt to revise Ocare in any way was very disheartening. Now the Senate wants to muck up a revision, desperately needed, to our Tax Code. Any Senator running for reelection voting no on Tax Reform might want to start finding a retirement home.

          Interesting the House seniors are pushing for many reforms and the Senate seniors just keep acting like nothing is so important as their little favorites (Susan Collins). McCain’s “process” is dead stop until who knows when. Didn’t McCain promise changes when he ran last year. Well, he changed.

          If Repubs let this opportunity to streamline the Federal Government go and Dems push them out, here comes Socialism. Sorry kids, we tried!

        1. What was it you called President Donald J. Trump?

          Only your anti-American, liberal dogma, ideology, propaganda and indoctrination shall “…be brought to a ‘legal Blog,” right?

          Are “Affirmative Action Privilege,” welfare, food stamps, quotas, social services, forced busing, unfair “Fair Housing” laws, discriminatory “Non-Discrimination” laws, Obamacare and the rest of the unconstitutional legislation constituting the welfare state egregious LEGAL issues fit for a blog?

          Apparently only your unconstitutional positions on redistribution of wealth, social engineering and central planning are suitable for a blog, including antithetical, anti-American, illegal, invasion-immigration which is designed to “fundamentally transform” Americans out of America. Did you know that Hoover, Truman and Eisenhower summarily deported Mexicans en masse because of the deleterious effect on America?

          Let us know if the following statutory situation is fit for a legal blog. Are you aware that freed slaves and their descendants are illegal aliens. The day the unconstitutional “Emancipation Proclamation” was issued the legal status of slaves changed from “property” to “illegal alien” due to the fact that the Naturalization Act of 1802 was in full force and effect requiring citizens to be “…free white person(s)…” The penalty for the crime of illegal immigration is deportation.

          “legal Blog” to be sure.

          All freedom of thought, speech, belief, religion, press, assembly and every other conceivable natural and god-given freedom per the 9th amendment, must be pre-approved by you, right?

        2. Kim Jong Un controls speech and everything else in North Korea. You might like it better there. Have you ever thought of emigrating? How about Cuba or China? You could “pursue happiness” without freedom of speech or anything else in those countries.

  11. “Two GOP senators withdraw Roy Moore endorsements after sexual misconduct allegations”

    BY BRANDON CARTER – 11/10/17 06:07 PM EST

    http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/359873-two-gop-senators-un-endorse-roy-moore-after-sexual-misconduct-allegations

    “GOP Sen. Mike Lee (Utah) and Steve Daines (Mont.) both announced they would no longer endorse Moore for Senate on Friday night.

    ““Having read the detailed description of the incidents, as well as the response from Judge Moore and his campaign, I can no longer endorse his candidacy for the US Senate,” Lee said in a statement.”

      1. JT: “In other words, there is clear defamation. In cases like this, I often wait to see who sues first. Discovery on a defamation claim is a chilling prospect for a public liar.”

        If it’s not true, then Moore should get busy — and sue.

        2. It has been my experience that the rumors about these serial molesters most often are true. it does not matter what political party or religion they belong to. Listen to the women.

    2. Now as we start getting news of other pastors being charged by this woman. She did sign language at Hillary events. Think there’s a chance you spoke too soon? I thought Mike Lee really wanted to change the status quo. Your recall if Moore’s endorsement will probably mean loss of the Senate.

  13. Again, if true, this is big:

    But it’s not standing alone.

    There are now allegations that The Washington Post attempted to pay women to come forward and make allegations of this sort.

    The claim is being made that not only did this happen it has been turned over to the DA. There are further allegations as to motive and intentional bias, and that this isn’t a case of “first impression” either.

    Even better, the calls apparently were recorded, so the claim is that there’s hard evidence that the attempted bribe happened.

    If this turns out to be true given the political affiliation and direct links to both Jeff Bezos and both his and the alleged “reporters” links to the DNC then this certainly appears to amount to federal election tampering, bribery as an inducement to engage in an unlawful act and Racketeering.

    If this proves up then not only should the Washington Post be criminally indicted and shut down so should Amazon and Jeff Bezos as well since this sure looks to me like a case where the Racketeering law applies and I remind you that bribery is one of the predicate offenses on which Racketeering can be charged. Racketeering can be and should be charged against anyone who was involved in, funded benefited from or stood to benefit from the product of said predicate conduct or pattern of activity.

    https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=232561

    Full story at the link.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    1. That would be great. If this sting ends badly for the accusers, maybe they’ll stop this garbage.

  14. Hmmm, if true, this is relevant!

    BREAKING! Roy Moore’s Accuser Worked for Democratic Leaders and Is Actively Campaigning for Moore’s Opponent

    We have just received information that one of the women accusing Alabama senatorial candidate Roy Moore of soliciting dates from her when she was a teenager and he was in his 30’s is not only a passionate progressive, but she has actually worked for the DNC and is actively campaigning for Moore’s opponent, Doug Jones.

    Deborah Wesson Gibson, aka Debbie Gibson, was named in the Washington Post article accusing Moore, and social media evidence makes clear that she is a fervent supporter of Jones and Democrats in general, and has even worked for the DNC.

    Wesson Gibson is a sign language interpreter, who has interpreted at rallies for both Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton.

    She has also vocalized fervent support for Jones.

    https://activistmommy.com/breaking-roy-moores-accuser-worked-democratic-leaders-actively-campaigning-moores-opponent/

    There are also new allegations that WAPO was trying to pay women to accuse Moore.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  15. Apparently Republican Christians in Alabama cannot tell the difference between betrothal/marriage 2000 years ago and contemporary child sexual assault . If you believe in the Virgin birth, then Joseph however old he may have been, was the protector of Jesus and the Mother of God. Or maybe teenager Mary met some family friend like Roy Moore and Joseph came to take on the responsibility left by Moore/the family friend’s rape.

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