Even as a long-standing critic of Roy Moore, it has been painful to watch the embarrassing defenses of his lawyers, the truly bizarre statements of his spokesman, and defenses of his supporters. Last night however was like entering a truly twisted alternative universe as Moore’s friend countered multiple claims of Moore’s pursuit of young girls and his wife defended against his alleged anti-Semitism. The proof? Moore once turned down underaged prostitutes and one of his lawyers is a Jew. The optics and rhetoric coming from the campaign seem to struggle to fulfill stereotypes like riding to the polls on a horse named “Sassy” as reporters pursue you to answer questions over sexual misconduct.
Moore’s military buddy refuted the allegations of nine women and a myriad of witnesses with a single story of how they went to a brothel in Vietnam that turned out to be filled with very young girls. Bill Staehle explained “I could tell you what I saw, but I don’t want to. There were certainly pretty girls. And they were girls. They were young. Some were probably very young.” But Moore did not have sex with the girls because ‘That was Roy, honorable, disciplined, morally straight, highly principled.”
Of course, this hardly proves that Moore did not pursue young girls for consensual relationship when he was in his 30s or that other factors (like military regulations and foreign laws) were not a liability. None of this means that Moore is guilty of these allegations, including rape. I have previously said that I find the women to be quite credible as do many Republicans, including the ranking Republican senator from Alabama. However, the decision to forego adolescent prostitute in a brothel in Vietnam is a rather bizarre defense to feature at the biggest rally of the campaign the night before the election.
Staehle was followed by Moore’s wife who has been accused of enriching Moore and herself to the tune of roughly $1 million from their religiously based charity The Foundation for Moral Law. In fairness to Moore, the allegation that we received $180,000 a year for part-time work is troubling but not necessarily unheard of. He was the main source of support for the foundation. The more troubling element for me is the alleged failure to clearly report the level of money removed from the foundation by the Moore family.
At last night’s rally, Kayla Moore refuted notions of anti-Semitism with the classic “some of my best friends are Jews.” The problem is that Moore has previously said that Jews will go to hell for their rejection of Christ. The defense again was painful to watch but here it is:
Saying “one of our attorneys is a Jew” is again hardly a rebuttal to Moore’s extremist stated Jews on Jewish people burning in hell.
Once again, I have been honest that my opposition to Moore was complete before these allegations due to his radical views of the Constitution and rejection of core legal principles. However, I also believe that it is willful blindness to ignore the scope of alleged victims and witnesses against Moore on pursuing young girls. Some conservatives are engaging in the identical pattern of denial that they previously (and rightfully) ridiculed during the Clinton scandals. Moore is a moral hazard and today is a test for whether voters will act on moral convictions or political convenience.
What is wrong with naming a horse “Sassy”? I had a goat with that name.
Moore lost!
David Benson – the polls were all over the place. There was no way to tell who was going to win. I am just glad Jones is not representing me. I have McCain and Flake, I suffer enough. 😉
“Moore lost!”
Now the question is whether the results reflect the particular circumstances of Moore’s situation or whether more voters are beginning to see the implications of Republican tax, health care, and regulatory proposals?
The next few years ought to be interesting.
T rumpism is fading out.
McCain and Flake? My condolences.
Goods news. The voters did not believe him plus his racist homophobic views are passe..
Praise the lord!
I’m glad to see when political parties bring forth problematic candidates they lose what is expected by them to be certain victory. After sex related matters that are picking off various political types shake out the bad apples, it would be welcome news if corruption became the next controversy resulting in voters tossing politicians out. Alas, I have my doubts on the latter. It is too endemic to be dislodged easily.
Hopefully parties will be more careful next time about who they put forth.
Sadly, I agree that corruption will never seem to get the results that sexual misconduct scandals have received. We often vote for candidates to clean up politics, but the cesspool still festers.
David B. Benson
December 12, 2017 at 12:00 AM
“Getting rid of Moore would eliminate many problems.”
“Too bad that won’t happen tomorrow.”
_______________________________________________________________________
Wait.
What?
You’re a genius!
Don’t forget there is a faculty meeting on the 15th. 🙂
There was a pop up calendar reminder on the article photo.
This has been a tortuous trip to the polling booth.
I do think that the forged yearbook is a big credibility issue. I’ve said before that all allegations of criminal activity should be investigated, and there are consequences for waiting decades and then coming forward at the last minute. If he’s guilty, then he will still be held accountable after the election. The truth will always come out, and that goes for all players in this Greek tragedy.
“The problem is that Moore has previously said that Jews will go to hell for their rejection of Christ. The defense again was painful to watch but here it is.” Moore said something along the lines of if you do not accept the salvation of God, then you are doomed. Most Protestants feel this way. In fact, many denominations believe that only their denomination will go to Heaven. As if only the Episcopalians are going to Heaven, and all the Baptists and Catholics are with Ghandi and Mother Theresa in Hell. I recall one of my favorite comedy routines ever discussed this belief, but in his version, the Mormons did get an “A” for effort, although they were not the right denomination and therefore Doomed, too.
I was told many times that I was going to Hell because I was a Catholic by Protestant friends. They liked me, we were friends, and they meant it along the lines of save-a-friend-from-Doom Day.
Virtually all people of any faith ascribe to their faith because they believe it is the best one. So of course they will think that all other faiths and subjects are not as well suited as their own. That’s the nature of belief, whether it’s environmental, political, religious, riding discipline, or sports fans. That’s fine. Atheists believe their humanism is better than my faith, but that doesn’t mean an atheist cannot do their job as a politician. All they would have to do is a good job, and follow the law.
I do not agree with the common notion that only one particular faith or denomination is going to Heaven. I think that’s up to God, and He does not need our input. He’s got it all covered, and we shouldn’t worry about it. Live your life the best way you know how, which is usually in your chosen religion, and let God sort out the Afterlife.
I do not like Moore’s views on the Constitution, what little I know of it.
And I’m sorry to say I had issues with how he sits a horse and tacks her up. I’ve seen cowboys ride with ease and sensitivity. Is that cheekpiece even adjustable? Hopefully on the other side. He should take it up. The bit was so low in the mouth it must have hit that pinto’s teeth. Is that shank 6″??? Ouch! Is it rusted or just brown? Geez, let go already! Stop sitting on your pockets. It’s bad for their backs and disconnects your seat bones and it won’t help the way you think it will. No wonder the stride is choppy. And what the heck is going on with that curb chain? Why not just pack an anchor and call it a day? Chair seat. Feet way kicked forward and daylight between his leg and the horse. Balancing on the ends of the reins. The earlier photo of the little Palomino wasn’t much better. I thought the horse’s mouth would be absolutely hanging open, but the ears were pricked and mouth closed, so perhaps it didn’t feel as bad as it looked. Mind you, all of this is spoken internally in the voice of that guy from Airplane criticizing the lady’s shoes. I (try to) ride the way I do because I think it’s better, and I have strong opinions about other riding disciplines as far as what I like and what I don’t. Just like religion. I can still have strong friendships with people of other riding disciples, and get along swimmingly. I would not normally criticize anyone’s riding like I just did, and in such an unguarded way. That’s what riding instructors are for. This is a day of opinions on Moore, and I couldn’t help but include it. He seemed more of a ride from point A to B type of rider, without worrying about how the horse is feeling. Those riders tend to be that way with other people, too. Just saying.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5171595/Jones-Alabamas-not-going-let-shame-happen.html
Kayla’s standing martingale is way too tight. All of my Arabs would have flipped over. Thumbs up, Roy. When you turn your hand over like that you engage the bit. Why is he smiling, yanking the horse’s head around like that? That long shank is leverage. When you ride with a bit, but most especially the shanked bit, your rein aids are like a tiny tightening of your finger muscles, almost impossible to see. They can feel it, and they can learn to respond. When they don’t respond, it’s because they’ve learned to tune out the rider and just bear it. Some of my favorite riders have been cowboys, especially the really calm unflappable older cowboys who worked all day from the saddle. Many have passed on. You don’t need to ride English to ride well, and take care of a horse.
That entire posture, surrounded by reporters, is ouch ouch ouch, tucked hind end, rolling eyes, tension, pinned ears, and getting small. Not too happy about the groceries, coat quality, and topline, what little I can see, either. There are some supplements I would try.
Geez, did someone mention “horse” and I got lost in the weeds?
Oh, and that fitted saddle pad looks great, but if my suspicions are correct, the rigging ring would lie directly against her side, pressed into her with his leg, without any padding between.
OK, NOW I’m done. Sorry!
Interesting remarks.
I am surprised and fascinated you can see so much from the brief new clips.
Karen S – Damn girl, you need a life. 🙂
I’m still freaked about the horses who burned alive and needed an outlet.
Karen S – that is very sad and there is not much you can do. Horses freak in fires and are hard to control. They needed to be moved earlier, but they weren’t. Once the fire starts they have a fight or flight response and you need teams of people to rescue them. A horse in fight mode is a dangerous animal and needs a seasoned handler. A horse in flight mode needs to be captured before it hurts itself or others. They just didn’t have enough people.
Many of them had padlocks on their stalls. There were other issues, but it’s the padlocks that haunt me. Animal Control was able to go into the burning barn and break 10 of them, I believe, but then had to run for their lives as they heard the horses screaming inside.
Padlocks. It’s more common than I thought here in CA. I never boarded at a barn that would have allowed it. Everyone learns from these disasters, and I really hope the word gets out that this practice is dangerous and needs to stop.
I didn’t know anyone who lost horses, but I did know people who lost their barns. A friend of a friend had to turn his horses loose because the fire was too fast, and a few of them ran the wrong way and were surrounded and burned.
So terrible.
So far, the only fire whose source has been discovered is the Bel Air fire. It was started by a hillside homeless encampment. Residents had complained for years they were worried about fires starting, but CA seems to encourage homeless people to sleep on the street and in the brush.
FWIW Karen, instead of thinking “you need a life” as Paul said, my thought as I read your comments was “now that’s what PASSION looks like.” I enjoyed reading your observations. Hard to find a creature more beautiful than a horse. 🙂
PS, and at the same time, I can see how Paul would jokingly suggest you need a life. I get that too. 😉
TBob – Karen should come to Scottsdale for the Parada del Sol, which is all horse ridden or driven. You would go nuts over the tack.
Is that the rodeo?
TBob – Here’s a photo of Tom Dorrance’s father riding. Still a shanked bit, like most Western bits, but relaxed hands and horse, and a centered ride. The cheekpiece is a bit close to the eyeball for some reason, and heels a bit neutral, but other than that, this is a photo of a good cowboy ride. The Dorrance family is famous for having rather low key cattle drives and work days, where everyone’s smooth and calm – the horses, the riders, the cattle. Just good horsemanship in general. You can find it in all riding disciplines except the Big Lick, which should die.
That said, I feel a bit guilty for being so brutally honest. You pay a riding instructor to spend an hour criticizing, but few people would stand up to online scrutiny of their rides.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ec/fa/ac/ecfaac6699ab4d9b9accf0468c7146bc.jpg
https://www.warwickschiller.com/inspirations/
BFM: Here’s another photo that’s worth a 1,000 words. The one with “Don’t touch the rein unless you want something and never forget you’re holding it.”
Another nice cowboy ride shot, this time in English tack. He’s using an egg butt snaffle, and some girl’s jumping saddle. The stirrup bars on that saddle are a few inches too far forward, a common problem in these trees, but he’s trying to keep his leg underneath him. It’s a hair too forward, but that’s the saddle. He’s engaging the reins, but you can see from the slight curve that it’s not much pressure.
You can really see a difference in these Western rides, at least in these snapshots of time. There are a lot of good Western trainers to follow.
Karen S – the Parada del Sol is the Parade in the Sun and it usually is a lovely day. I think there is also a rodeo, but this is just a major parade of decked out tack and saddles with lots of silver, etc. The outfits are exceptional.
Oh, I’ve seen that style of tack. It shines into space with all the silver and even gold sometimes. I love a good parade. I’ll try to find it online, but you know I’ll be howling if there were charro trained horses. I’ve known a lot of horses who had to recover from that and are still scarred.
Karen S – I think the charros are out of business in Phoenix. They closed down their stadium back in the 1980s.
Still riding at 90, god bless him.
I think it’s interesting that you made a comment earlier about how Roy Moore handled his horse. And he lost the election. Just saying. 😉
No worries. Paul’s nice and was just teasing me in good fun. And I agree about the beauty of horses.
On the other hand Turley has a knack which sounds suspicously like a class room techniqure of firing up the student body and making some of us ‘think.’ I call it the Heinlein technique. Some of us did think, Squeak came out of retirement and Paul as usual maintained an even keel.
The others are remembered by a statue hand built from the ground up in Nogales, Sonora, Mexico just across and insight of the border from Nogales, Arizona, USA. A dragon being slain by one individual. It’s called Death of Ignorance. Being close I make a pilgrimage once a year.
) – I grok that =)
JT claims. . .
I HAVE PREVIOUSLY SAID THAT I FIND THE WOMEN TO BE QUITE CREDIBLE. . .
Pray tell, JT, once and for all, please enlighten those who read your articles. . .based upon what specific information or proof, regarding the women, silent for decades and decades, do you find these individuals to be credible? Please, for the love of God, specify how and why you–a trained lawyer and a law professor, at one of the most highly acclaimed law schools in the nation–find these accusers to be, as you so consistently write, CREDIBLE? Do you have background information, unknown to the rest of the general public, which tends to bolster that repeated sense of confidence that you apparently have in the veracity of these claims? Have you ever crossed examined these women, or viewed a cross-examination performed by another attorney, to see if these stories hold water? To determine whether there is any iota of merit to these accusations? To ferret out any possible reasons or motives behind these stories? Have you completed background searches on these women, who, may, or may not, have backgrounds which indicate that they are known, pathological liars? I know the answer, and the answer is, you don’t know $#%t about these women. Nothing. Nada. Zippo. You know no more than the rest of us. Yet, the mantra continues. You find the women–who could have backgrounds filled with mental illness and/or any multitude of crimes related to dishonesty or deceit–to be, CREDIBLE. That’s your story, and you’re stickin’ to it. Facts, be damned. Solid evidence, be damned.
MOORE IS A MORAL HAZARD AND TODAY IS A TEST FOR WHETHER VOTERS WILL ACT ON MORAL CONVICTIONS OR POLITICAL CONVENIENCE.
Interesting. I find it a “moral hazard” to have throngs of ignorant individuals, so eager to have their respective “political” ideology maintained, that they will toss aside any concept of justice. That they will suspend any notion of fairness. That they will discard any scintilla of due process. That they immediately believe, without any shread of evidence and without any investigation, vile accusations, from decades ago. And, those are the throngs of ignorant individuals. . .those with no legal training and expertise. What is your excuse, JT? You want the definition of, what you claim to be, a moral hazard? I’d say that it is when, purportedly, educated and sophisticated individuals– law professors, who should know better–follow the mad pack of villagers, carrying pitchforks and torches, without any notion of justice or fairness. A moral hazard? A moral hazard is when those in society–like lawyers and law professors–who should be the first to claim that accusations are not the same as facts. . .that the accusers should be thoroughly scrutinized. . .that we don’t allow lives to be destroyed over unsubstantiated claims from decades ago. . .spout the same nonsense as the uneducated masses and leave their convictions and ethics conveniently behind.
Damn straight!
There is practically nothing which lends any credibility to the charges. You have a generic yearbook entry that the accuser admits to having altered, which appear to be in blue ink, If she added those blue parts, then it is reasonable to believe that she also added the other blue parts. Which blue parts include the name “Moore” and “D.A.” and which the “Moore” was added in cursive next to the “Roy” or “Ray”, while the rest was in block printing.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQQeeGsUMAA-OZD.jpg
Plus, the mere existence of “details” is hardly dispositive. Details are easy to create. People do it all the time in novels, screen scripts, short stories, etc. Think of all the Tawama Brawley’s “details”.
Sheeeesh! A lttle professionalism, please!
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
Squeeky, perhaps even more important to the “credibility” of the yearbook used as “evidence” against Roy Moore is that neither Nelson nor Allred will agree to permit the yearbook to be tested by an independent forensic laboratory.
The tests would not be limited to a detailed qualitative handwriting analysis, but would also involve scientific testing to determine the nature and the age of the ink used. The ink from a pen written purportedly written some 40 years ago would be very different from the ink of a pen used today. So, if the ink test revealed that the yearbook handwriting in question was written within the last year, why, even Turley would be hard pressed to accept the credibility of the yearbook–though you can never be sure in his case. (Turley just goes on a gut instinct, not actual facts or evidence, particularly if his gut sense supports the political position he wants to take.)
And that, of course, is why neither Nelson nor Allred will permit the yearbook to be independently tested.
Bam Bam for the win………..
I will add some belated support which Iused on fox. Nine but not one were considered sufficiently credible to the point that not one law enforcement officer man or woman, not one District attorney man or woman, not one state Attorney General, not one federal judge even if from Hawaii considered them sufficiently credible. There was unlike Franken not one confession or admission of guilt.
But the opposition has a long long record of using such to destroy their opponents. Herman Cain comes immediately to mind as he was attacked by Conyers who now stands as a race traitor.
And worst of all the example of William Jefferson Clinton and Hillary Rodham Clinton and all of them at one point or another, confessed openly to their actions and if you must their intent.
Moore stands alone. No FBI, no special counsel and wth flaws stands alone and NOT ONE charge has been filed..
The same with this silly collusion nonsense which isn’t even a crime.
The same with using intent as an excuse when it isn’t an element of the crime committed although the intent using knowingly and willingly as the standard was quite apparent
So let them not stand alone as we did not let our Constitutional Republic stand alone last November.
Yes indeed. Woot woot!
bam bam, Turley can easily determine that the women accusing Roy Moore are credible. He’s using the same mind reader that benson, ken, linda, and enigmablack use–because their mind reader gives them half-off the usual charge.
Ralph is wrong yet once again.
Da accusers were believed by Ivanka and da stinky pervert lost along with da T rump and da Bannon.