North Carolina prosecutors have filed a relatively rare incest prosecution. According to WNCN-TV, Steven Pladl, 42, of Knightdale, and Katie Pladl, 20, were arrested last week for an incestuous relationship that produced a child. It is truly disturbing and disgusting account, which includes the knowledge of two younger children.
Katie Pladl had been given up for adoption as a child but tracked down her parents in 2016 and moved in — apparently as an adult. She moved into their home with Steven, her mother, and their two children. Steven eventually took to sleeping in her room on the floor. The wife separated and eventually secured a divorce. She later learned that Katie was pregnant after reading one of her daughter’s journal and child welfare was called. They interviewed the younger sisters who revealed the relationship and pregnancy.
The criminal code turns on the age of the accused parties:
2005 North Carolina Code – General Statutes § 14-178. Incest.
§ 14‑178. Incest.
(a)Offense. A person commits the offense of incest if the person engages in carnal intercourse with the person’s (i) grandparent or grandchild, (ii) parent or child or stepchild or legally adopted child, (iii) brother or sister of the half or whole blood, or (iv) uncle, aunt, nephew, or niece.
(b)Punishment and Sentencing.
(1)A person is guilty of a Class B1 felony if either of the following occurs:
a.The person commits incest against a child under the age of 13 and the person is at least 12 years old and is at least four years older than the child when the incest occurred.
b.The person commits incest against a child who is 13, 14, or 15 years old and the person is at least six years older than the child when the incest occurred.
(2)A person is guilty of a Class C felony if the person commits incest against a child who is 13, 14, or 15 and the person is more than four but less than six years older than the child when the incest occurred.
(3) In all other cases of incest, the parties are guilty of a Class F felony.
(c) No Liability for Children Under 16. � No child under the age of 16 is liable under this section if the other person is at least four years older when the incest occurred. (1879, c. 16, s. 1; Code, s. 1060; Rev., s. 3351; 1911, c. 16; C.S., s. 4337; 1965, c. 132; 1979, c. 760, s. 5; 1979, 2nd Sess., c. 1316, s. 47; 1981, c. 63, s. 1; c. 179, s. 14; 1993, c. 539, s. 1192; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 2002‑119, s. 1.)
Usually criminal prosecutions involve a minor child. This is different with two adult parties and both charged.
The case leads to an interesting debate over the basis and scope of the incest law, though few would support the couple in this case.
The criminalization of incest between adults is based on two different rationales. The original rationale was a moral one. That rationale has been challenged by libertarians and others as problematic without some based in concrete social harm. The second rationale was that incest produces genetic mutations within the population.
While consanguinity refers to a relationship between couples who share at least one common ancestor, incest is generally defined as as a relationship between first-degree relatives. North Carolina has a standard definition of “carnal intercourse with the person’s (i) grandparent or grandchild, (ii) parent or child or stepchild or legally adopted child, (iii) brother or sister of the half or whole blood, or (iv) uncle, aunt, nephew, or niece.” It is the extension to cousins that has attracted the most controversy. Some studies put the risk for first cousins at 1.7% to 2.8% above the population background risk.
The low rate (and availability of testing for potential defects) has led for some to call for a loosening of the criminal law for cousins. However, few have argued for such changes for fathers and daughters — an act viewed by most of us was disgusting morally.
Moreover, the relationship was clearly traumatic for the younger sisters in this case.
Can an argument be made for reexamining closer relatives who are adults (if younger siblings were not involved or other complicating elements)? Does it matter if testing can eliminate the medical risks and leave only the moral objection?
What do you think?
“Katie & Steven Pladl Dead: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know”
https://heavy.com/news/2018/04/katie-steven-pladl-incest-dead-murder-suicide/
By Paul Farrell
Published Apr 12, 2018 at 3:59pm
Updated Apr 12, 2018 at 4:51pm
“A man, who knowingly fathered a child with his daughter, murdered their child, his daughter and her adopted dad. In February 2018, Steven, 42, and his daughter Katie Pladl, 20, made international news after they were arrested and accused of incest after the pair had a child together. At the time, they were living in Knightdale, North Carolina and were planning to get married.
“On April 12, CBS Raleigh-Durham reporter Colleen Quigley tweeted that Steven Pladl shot-and-killed Katie, her adoptive father and the pair’s infant child. Afterwards, Steven committed suicide. Katie and her adopted father were found dead in New Milford, Connecticut, while Steven Pladl was found dead across state lines in New Milford, Connecticut. WFSB reports that after their initial arrests, Steven Pladl was instructed to stay away from his daughter. Katie Pladl was released on the condition that she lives with her parents in New York.
“WFSB reports that the bodies of Katie Pladl and adoptive father were found in a car on the morning of April 12 in the Gaylordsville-area of New Milford, Connecticut. Fox61 reports that a man spotted the two bodies at around 8:40 a.m. inside of a pickup truck.”
Legally, he is NOT her father and they are two consenting adults.
The baby has a right to his/her parents.
There is a town in North Carolina named Kinston. It is common for married coiuples to be cousins or whatnot. Kinston was titled Kingston until after the American Revolution when the dropped the G spot so as to repute the damn Brits. But the women have been in rage for loosing their G spots. The family shown in the photos looks like a bunch I saw at the Walmart in Kinston.
My daddy and my uncle are the same person.
The family tree is a telephone pole.
The child’s father and grandfather are the same person. I wonder about the unintended incestuous relationships resulting from sperm banks.
Maybe they had gone to a father/daughter dance? (See other story in Turley blog)
A lot of people think that all humans came from the evolutionary Adam and Eve. No wonder we are all so defective.
What strikes me is that two people gave up their child for adoption, but married and stayed together.
I am very sorry that Katie Pladl had enough issues that she would engage in an incestuous relationship with her biological father. And I’m sorry that her father pursued his own daughter in such a way, betraying the relationship as her dad.
What is going to happen to their child?
Many Royal families like the Hapsburgs had persistent genetic illness because of the practice of intermarrying to preserve land, titles, and wealth. Although it is true that the occasional marrying of a first cousin would not lead to that level of genetic issues, it’s a practice that has consequences. I would not like to see marrying first cousins normalized.
Is there a substantial moral or genetic difference between this incest business and old-school Mormon polygamy?
Most or all of what I know about late 19th Century Mormon polygamy comes from chapters of Mark Twain’s Roughing It where, on his way to the silver/gold mines of Virginia City, he stopped in Salt Lake City, met Brigham Young, and generally opines about the culture he found — which included men marrying women, then marrying their daughters and/or their mothers, etc.
Although Twain was not famous for confining his accounts to factual reality, accounts presented in his nonfiction are generally taken as at least being based upon factual reality, so I take this accounts of Mormon polygamy as being essentially truthful.
Under circumstances where the parties are both consenting adults and, as the Professor postulates, younger siblings were not involved and there are no other “complicating elements,” this appears to be a classic victimless “crime.”
I’ve always been skeptical of criminalizing victimless behavior, disgusting as it might sometimes be. Not approving of something doesn’t necessarily require criminalization. I think there’s a point where you can’t legislate behavior if you can’t produce a victim. And please don’t respond by claiming that the perpetrators are also the victims, because that’s just an argument for a finding of mental illness, which isn’t a crime.
Read The 19th Wife, about Ann Eliza Young, who left Brigham Young and crusaded against polygamous Mormonism. It spans two different times, and touches on the Lost Boys.
Thanks for the recommendation.
Do we eat dogs and cats?
That is another way to frame this. In a purely mechanistic sense, there is probably no difference in eating a Doberman than there is in eating cow, raccoon, or chicken. In some cultures, dogs and cats are menu items. In some countries, like Venezuela, the people are eating their pets and zoo animals because Socialism.
But are cats and dogs on the bill of fare for us, here in America? We come from a White European Christian Culture, and that sort thing simply isn’t for us. Are we wrong? Should we allow immigrants to this country to bar b que shih tzus?
Answer that, and the answer to JT’s question, “Does it matter if testing can eliminate the medical risks and leave only the moral objection?” becomes clear.
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
Where do you stand on cannibalism? — assuming the entrée died of natural causes and wasn’t murdered, of course.
Well, if my plane crashed on the side of a high mountain, and there was no food, and I done cooked and ate the leather soccer balls, and I was starving. . .
Plus, I would give a pass to the Donner Party. . . 🙂
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
If you’ve never read it, you’d probably enjoy Twain’s short story (available online) Cannibalism in the Cars — politicians on a train trapped by snow drifts — isolated and starving — offering motions to nominate the next course — and after that one’s et, then the next — and the next. Hysterical stuff.
I just read it, and it is hilarious!
http://micah.cowan.name/cannibalism/cannibalism-orig.pdf
Can you imagine if that happened here, on this website? I am sure we vote to first devour Ken, Linda, Late4Dinner, Mark M., YNOT, Sooo, we have the vote, and to our surprise, they are all the same person! Sooo, after dinner, we are back to voting, and so on.
Natacha is tough, and has a disagreeable taste;
Isaac B is mostly fat, which would not be so bad, but we have no turnip greens;
We can’t catch swarthemoremom, who is locked inside a gated community, with a security force;
Enigma is OK, but who really likes dark meat?;
Darren Rychlak has a funky mushroomy taste, and afterwards, it is like we are on an acid trip.
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
Squeeky, I don’t eat out of a dumpster, and for the same reason I would not consume any of those posters you mentioned. My stomach is just not that strong, and starving would seem to be an acceptable alternative.
You say that now, thinking with you brain — but after a week or so, I suspect your appetite would take over and do the thinking for you — trapped at, of all god-forsaken places, a LAWYER’S website. Not a fact anywhere in sight, you’d quickly realize that one cannot live on opinions and argumentation alone.
LOL — maybe you should expand that a bit, and take out a copyright on Cannibalism Online. The Internet is suddenly froze up and we are trapped here, unable to leave the page — day after day. Our efforts to free ourselves are useless. Confound it, it’s NOT the router. It’s NOT the ISP. Windows problem checking can’t identify the problem and says “Get help from a friend.” None of us is really an IT specialist. We are trapped — doomed — and oh so hungry, etc.
W. Bayer,..
– The very same catastrophe that you’re describing actually happened in South Park, Colorado about 10 years ago.
Yes, that’s one of my favorite episodes (and maybe what the back of my brain was remembering). No cannibalism, however — but the substitute they came up with for internet porn is priceless.
My Goodness, but you guys are up late! It is 4:00AM here. I fell asleep reading in the chair for a few minutes, and listening to Dark Christmas Music (can you imagine such a thing???) but woke up when a cat jumped on me.
But, there was still some coffee in my new percolator, sooo now I am wired. If you are interested, here is Tarja Turunden, ex Nightwish front woman, in her new album. Which starts at 1:57 into the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE6BWsW9hSA&t=66s
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
Squeeky,..
My dog woke me up to take me for a walk.
Tom:
Well, I usually get up at 5ish to do work schedules for my Mom’s business employees, put seeds and bread out for the birds, then crash until 9:00 or so. Unless Penelope needs me at the office earlier. But, I am awake now, and I have the schedules done, but I am wired. Sooo, I am listening to The Legendary Tigerman:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oiz0A_24D10
I love the second cut on this, which has a separate video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nYVRIrWnvE
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
Squeeky – so we can assume the percolator is working?
@PaulCS
Yes, it works fine! The coffee is sooo hot! I am on my second cup since I woke up! I love that little sound it makes while it perking. And it seems stronger, too.
I told my uncle about it, and he says if I want to put hair on my chest, to just add new grounds to the old grounds and brew another pot. But I don’t think I want hair on my chest???
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
Squeeky – some percolators have a climax, which is interesting. 😉 About the hair on your chest, you can always get manscaped. 🙂
Squeeky: what kind of percolator did you get? I received a new Kenmore for Christmas but haven’t used it yet. I’m looking for a simple to use one for my elderly mom.
TIN:
It is a Hamilton Beach 12 cup Percolator. Model 40616. It seems pretty simple to use. I was surprised at how hot the coffee was, and how hot the machine was.
I got it off Amazon. I have also ordered a couple of antique ones. I plan on emulating the French Coffee Society of the 1920s, and sit outside on the patio, with Le Chat, Snagglepuss, on a leash, with one of my laptops, perhaps a book, and an Art Deco percolator on the table. I shall smoke my pipe (when no one is looking) and engage in pleasantries with the feline. And sip a good strong cup of joe,. When the weather is warmer, that is.
My parents swear by Kenmore stuff, so you probably have a good one. The coffee seems stronger, too.
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
W. Bayer..,
It’s been a long time since I’ve seen it, but the South Park episode “over Logging” was about a complete nationwide shutdown of the internet.
The South Park families hit the road in a desperate search for internet access…..sort of like a “Grapes of Wrath” type of journey….I think they finally found an “internet refugee camp” in or near Silocon Valley.
– It may be a differt episode than the one that you mentioned.
No, that’s precisely the one I’m talking about. it WAS a parody of The Grapes of Wrath — sepia-toned black-and-white while they were on the road — to give it the Great-Depression visual effect. The more familiar you are with Steinbeck’s book, the funnier that episode is. I’ve not seen it for a long time myself, but when one of my favorite authors meets one of my favorite cartoons, it’s not easy to forget. One of the best parodies EVER!
And even though they made it to the internet camp, the internet was rationed — each person only getting a minute of internet per day (or some such negligible quantity) — which wasn’t nearly enough time for Randy to use the internet for the purpose for which he uses the internet — thus they had to devise a substitute for internet porn. And when Randy breaks in to steal some internet time in the middle of the night, the sound effects are as funny as anything I’ve ever heard. Look for it at the South Park website, give it a watch, listen for the elephant sounds when Randy finally gets some internet time, and whatever you do, check out the simulated internet porn. Apparently, aside from being the Mother of Invention, Necessity is the mother of internet porn.
Hey, that’s some pretty snazzy writing!
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
Speak English. The word is “snazzmatic.”
Many original white Europeans emigrated to America to escape the tyranny of the local religious Chief being in the same sack with the local King. Hence the Rhode Island pact to outlaw such “bed sharing,” wherein the proclamation of one equals the proclamation of the other. This trend is best exemplified in the so-called “separation between church and State,” the US being the first nation to outlaw the intermingling of the State with that alleged to be divine.
Israel is a nation quite the opposite of the US Re. the “separation” law. Israel was built by the US and League of Nations as an alleged racial and/or religious State for so-called Judaics. The fact that such State, by definition, is not and can not be “democratic” is of little concern to most Americans who believe America is/was founded on “Christianity.”
For years Israel has debated whether all Israel citizens must:
a) Lose their citizenship or
b) Swear an oath to Israel remaining a Jewish State forever
By law, male Palestinians are already barred from Israeli citizenship. How Americans who swear support for democracy can support such laws I don’t know, but I’m sure some are happy to voice their reasoning here.
Another interesting anomaly about Israel: the founders of Israel and their Western supporters claimed Israel is/was necessary for Judaics to have a home State for protection. It’s interesting that well over 50% of the world’s “Jews” freely and happily choose to live and thrive outside of their alleged protective “homeland.”
Lastly, another weird anomaly in Israel is that there is no fixed, definite legal or colloquial definition of a so-called “Jew.” There is some sort of modern Sanhedrin in Israel that is the final legal authority as to one’s Jewish status or lack thereof. Foreigners must pass Sanhedrin tests to be declared legally “Jews” for citizenship.
Several years ago NPR had this report: your prototypical NY born and raised Jew finally wakes one day and says to himself, “I gotta go live in my natural Israeli homeland!” He goes to Israel, fills out the forms, and the Sanhedrin sends him back to the USA stamped, “NO MOTZABALL SOUP FOR YOU!!!” To say this guy is shocked and dismayed is an understatement. Maybe they found .1% Palestinian blood, who knows?
It is just a normal day in John McStain’s life of depraved hypocrisy that he’ll have streets and schools named after him in Israel when he finally enters hell to share rule with Satan, while he is against Trump’s wall and desires nothing but more amnesty for illegals in his own homeland.
I completely agree with you Squeeky.
Thank you Beakie! I believe a country can define what it is willing to accept and what it is not willing to admit. The Human Race has a long history of not liking incest.
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
If she was adopted, she is not his daughter.
She was adopted out, but then came back home to her birth parents is the way I read it. Thus, she had sex with her real father.
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
Squeeky – if she is adopted, she is trimmed from the family tree. The person she tracked down is her sperm donor, but legally, since she has been adopted, not her father. They need an expert in adoption law.
As an example, my brother let his son be adopted by his ex-wife and her new husband. Technically, he is gone from our family. He is not my nephew. He does not carry on the family name, etc.
Whether or not that’s a legal fact (and I’ve no clue) — that they are no longer considered father and daughter in the eyes of the law — if they use that as a defense — if they say that they reasonably believed that they were no longer father and daughter — it seems like that would pretty much destroy the prosecution’s case, because it removes the element of intent to commit incest.
Certainly accidental incest isn’t a crime (or at least wouldn’t be prosecuted), such as if a child is separated from it’s parents early in life, and then meets one of his or her parents later in life without knowing it’s a parent, and they marry, then get it on (or get it on without marrying), and later discover the genetic relationship. They didn’t know they were related — had no clue they might be breaking the law. Not Guilty!
Paul,
Regardless of how thoroughly you cleanse the family tree of this legal relationship, you will never remove the biological relationship between birth father and daughter.
The laws against incest are based on biological concerns, not legal ones.
Nice try but false. The court cannot remove the biological relationship between child and birth parent.
OLLY – the court can remove the legal connection.
The statute should be clarified. It speaks of “whole blood or half blood” between siblings, so it clearly is directed towards biological relatives, regardless of their adoptive status or lack thereof. Yet it doesn’t have that specific reference to biology when addressing parent – child incest. However, I doubt that a North Carolina jury is going to be kindly disposed towards a legal technicality defense. They’ll know he is a creep who took advantage of a young girl desperate for acceptance. His public defender should encourage him to take the best plea deal he can get.
What’s the beef in an “anything goes” society where a sexual climax is a sexual climax is a sexual climax.
Or, do you want a society without incest, polygamy, trannies, pornography and gay marriages?
Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter
Squeek-Sadly you make a strong point. Hopefully the baby will be healthy and it will never know it’s parents.
Gay marriage is not even remotely related to da crime of incest. As to pornography we have a potusthat coverts with da porn stars and tells da bombshell she looks like his daughter. Sick Sick stuff.
K en da use be backs off da aol again. Eyes believes da days da callings use da please returns da twos aol.