Bizarre, Criminal law

Man On Frontier Flight Accused of Slugging Both A Deaf Pregnant Woman In the Stomach As Well As Her Service Dog

225px-frontier_airlines_logoTimothy Manley, 59, is under under FBI investigation after a bizarre confrontation on a Frontier flight from Colorado Springs to Orlando. Manley is accused of not just hitting a deaf pregnant woman in the stomach, but slugging her service dog.

Matthew Silvay, 30, and Hazel Ramirez, 21, are a deaf couple who were travelling with their two kids and service dog — a Great Dane named Zariel.  The incident occurred during the descent into Orlando when Manley’s wife, Petrini, 56, complained that their son, Joshua, 27, was allergic to dogs.

Timothy Manley was reportedly put out by the size of Zariel and told police the dog “took up more space than [he] felt it deserved.”

He allegedly punched the dog in the head, which caused Zariel to squeeze under a seat.  When Ramirez objected, he allegedly punched her in the stomach despite her being 20 weeks pregnant.  The deaf couple say that he also touched their children.

Since the incident occurred on the plane, it is technically a federal matter even though Orlando police responded to the call. Silvay and Ramirez are demanding charges against Manley.
If so, this might not be the case you want to put before a jury.

65 thoughts on “Man On Frontier Flight Accused of Slugging Both A Deaf Pregnant Woman In the Stomach As Well As Her Service Dog”

  1. The old Frontier Airlines used to fly DC-3s, maybe refurbished war surplus ones. No dogs allowed on those.

    And by the way, the Spanish Americans mostly couldn’t afford to fly. Just state congressmen.

      1. No, in New Mexico the people who had been living there since 1650 or so were called Spanish Americans. As opposed to the Indians who had been there since time out of mind and us Gringos, newcomers who could afford to fly, some of us.

        Mostly the three groups stayed apart but everyone was very polite and orderly. If there was any “racial” animosity, it was directed towards the Mexicans; very recent immigrants from Mexico.

        1. There is no one who has been living in Santa Fe since 1650 and you’d be hard put to find more than a three-digit population predominantly descendant of pre-1848 settlers.

          2. Nutz Is Inchoate — Santa Fe was was founded in 1610. The descendants, obviously, were called Spanish Americans when I lived in neighboring Los Alamos in the 1950s.

            According to Wikipedia, about half the population of Santa Fe is still Spanish American.

            Learn to do a little research before spouting off before your betters.

            1. Freedom of speech is great. Even if it’s fake. Oink, oink.

              1. Marky Mark would appear to be appropriating my handle.

            2. David Benson – STILL owes me a citation from the OED. The residents of Sante Fe that you call Spanish-American are called Hispanic by the Census Bureau. Wikipedia lists them as Hispanics or Latinos. Dude, your research is soooooo sloppy.

              1. I certainly know that change in the language. I use Spanish Americans since those peoples are not recent immigrants from Mexico.

                Stop showing off your ignorance.

                1. David Benson – STILL owes me a citation from the OED. When was the last time you were in Sante Fe? You think it is immune to migration from Mexico? Bigger fool you. BTW, 5 1/2 and the library opens.

                  1. I know the prejudice against Mexicans there.
                    Natural increase explains the current population of Spanish Americans in northern New Mexico.
                    Fool.

                    1. David Benson – STILL owes me a citation from the OED. David, you didn’t say when the last time you were there. Now, I looked at the census figures and the breakdown and even for Hispanics and Latinos the size of household and birthrate was below the rest of New Mexico.

                    2. Paul C Schulte. You misspelled Santa Fe.

                      Your mind is slipping away, I fear.

                    3. <David Benson – owes me a citation from the OED. You are correct, I did misspell it. Bad, Paul. 3 hours until the library opens.

                  2. Paul, let it go. Look to heaven, not the things on this earth.

                    1. DSS – would you ask a basketball team to give up? No, it is the same principal. It is a matter of honor. I have to leave for several hours so that gives David time to get to the library and get the citation. I am going to recreate and do some shopping.

            3. Nutz Is Inchoate —

              No, I’m not ‘inchoate’ at my age.

  2. Horrifying incident. First and foremost, is her unborn child OK? Are the mother and dog ok? The dog is good natured if his response to being punched is to hide.

    The man was utterly and completely wrong, and handled this situation poorly on every level.

    As for service animals on planes and other public transit, this is still fairly new. The rules need to catch up and solidify. I can see both sides to the animal issue. On the one hand, they have banned peanuts in planes and schools due to life threatening allergies. Using the same logic, how can they allow animals like cats in the cabin, which can trigger life threatening allergies? In addition, the range of service animals allowed on is getting ridiculous, and the system is being abused. I love horses, but they should not be in the passenger cabin.

    On the other hand, some service animals can save lives, such as those who warn of seizures.

    I tend to favor individual liberty. At what point does someone’s right to bring their service animal on public transport outweigh the safety of those with common allergies? This is a tricky question that needs to be worked out.

    My personal feeling is that service animals should only be allowed on if they belong to a limited list of species, and if the person is unable to travel without them in the cabin. There should be a no animal section maintained for those with allergies.

    Perhaps someone else will come up with a better solution.

    If the family could physically travel without their dog, then he should have travelled in cargo with everyone else’s pets, in deference to those who may have severe allergies.

    That said, even if that man had legitimate concerns, his behavior was so egregious it made his motives moot. He might have killed a baby or damaged his brain. At that point no one cares about his argument. He belongs in prison.

  3. So, Americans are a pretty violent people. It starts at the top: “It really couldn’t be more fitting that the US now has an actual, literal torturer as the head of the CIA. It also couldn’t be more fitting that it has a reality TV star billionaire President, an Iraq-raping Bush-era neoconservative psychopath as National Security Advisor, a former defense industry director as Secretary of Defense, a former Goldman Sachs executive as Secretary Treasurer, and a former Rothschild, Inc. executive as Secretary of Commerce. These positions have always facilitated torture, oppression, war profiteering and Wall Street greed; the only thing that has changed is that they now have a more honest face on them…Central Intelligence Agency has done some of the most unspeakably horrific things to human beings that have ever happened in the history of our species. If you think I’m exaggerating, do your own research into into some of the CIA’s activities like the Phoenix Program, which used “Rape, gang rape, rape using eels, snakes, or hard objects, and rape followed by murder; electric shock (‘the Bell Telephone Hour’) rendered by attaching wires to the genitals or other sensitive parts of the body, like the tongue; the ‘water treatment’; the ‘airplane’ in which the prisoner’s arms were tied behind the back, and the rope looped over a hook on the ceiling,…”

    https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/the-friendly-mask-of-the-orwellian-oligarchy-is-slipping-off-b896a0a25b5f

    Behold your overlords and think about this reality next time you claim torture isn’t really a big deal.

  5. Can’t help but notice that the woman has an Hispanic name. Can’t help but wonder if this might have been a factor. Can’t help but notice the increased lack of civility and attacks on Hispanics since Trump took office. He calls Mexicans “rapists”, “criminals”, and “animals”. He is no role model. Clueless Pence is no better. He professes to be an Evangelical Christian. Why doesn’t he condemn Trump’s praise for White Supremacists and racists, and his boasting of sexual assaults? Why? He’s a hypocrite.

    1. Natacha – Trump called MS-13 members animals and they are. They are feral.

      1. There is no place for truth in Natacha’s mind.

      2. These people on the plane were not members of M-13. Trump has been an unapologetic racist for decades. That will never change.

            1. No, you’ve manufactured that in your mind to please your disordered emotional self. Quit pestering the normies.

              1. This is what the shrinks call projection. Well done, cha cha cha.

                1. loverly, Please don’t let these tribal willfully blind alternative reality folks get to you. Fact is the truth scares the hell out of them so they attack anything that’s not on their flat earth.

                  1. Thanks. I don’t let them get to me. However, I think some of them are truly delusional and that’s a mental health issue, so I shouldn’t taunt them so much. I must do better 🙂

                    On another note, how about the Amazon and UAE/Saudi stories? Geez, Trump is so nakedly corrupt, isn’t he?

          1. I responded to YOUR comment:

            Natacha – Trump called MS-13 members animals and they are. They are feral.

            1. loverly – that still doesn’t answer my question. What does MS-13 have to do with the plane?

    2. “Can’t help but notice that the woman has an Hispanic name.” Actually, the woman has a Spanish name. She could be from Spain, a country in Europe, or a white Cuban, or a mixed race Hispanic. Why project racial or ethnic issues where none may exist? And the assailant’s wife has an Italian name: Petrini. And his son has a Jewish name: Joshua. The victim dog also has a Jewish name: Zariel. So by your reasoning, the Italian mother complained that her Jewish son was allergic to the Danish dog with a Jewish name (mixed breed, apparently), causing the Anglo father to punch a Spaniard/Hispanic woman who is pregnant by a Portuguese. Yeah, that makes sense. Remind me to always consider race as the most likely motivating factor!

  6. ‘Deaf doesn’t require a Great Dane – or any other dog for that matter. Keep them off the plane.’

    Actually, this Great Dane aside, there are service dogs for the deaf. They are trained to alert there owners to certain sounds.

  7. Who says you need a service dog? Rocky the Alligator Snapping Turtle smiles for video

    1. I’m generally against ESA animals, as I think the service has been abused. I don’t know who is the ultimate, controlling authority, but they don’t say no very well. I can’t imagine that punching the dog will advance our cause, and I don’t think that a man who punches a pregnant woman should be our spokesman or our martyr.

      1. The Dept. of Justice (and most states) makes a distinction between an ESA and a Service Dog. A Service Dog has to have specialized training and perform specific tasks for the owner. Only a dog or a horse can be considered a Service Animal.

        Emotional Support Animals can be whatever the owner says they are. There seem to be several online “registries” for ESAs. It’s up to the airlines to accept or reject these animals.

        1. Thanks for the distinction. I thought ESAs fell under the umbrella of service animals. That may make reform easier.

          I learn something new every day…

    1. Service dogs can be very helpful to the deaf by alerting them to situations the rest of us become aware of first through sound. That is especially true for deaf parents of young children.

    2. I believe a trained service dog would be quite useful for a deaf person. The dog could alert the owner to fire alarms, sirens, honking horns, ringing telelephones, crying babies, door bells, or a mugger sneaking up behind you. The problem is that too many people get a dog that is not professionally trained as a service animal; that is really just a pet; and then it understandably fails to protect the owner when the need arises. My brother-in-law, who is a cop, twice purchased dogs who had flunked out of K-9 school. Although these Labs lacked the aggression required to be a police dog and hence washed out of the program, they nonetheless were sufficiently trained that they stuck to the children and their mother like glue, and were highly alert to strangers approaching.

  9. Some “service dog” who cowers when his family is attacked.

    1. Debbie Barnhart – Great Danes are not normally service dogs and they are not noted for protecting their owners. 😉

  10. It might be time to back to old standards, seeing eye dogs only. It seems that everyone’s dog is a service dog some way or another. They probably take the dog along with them because boarding a Great Dane costs a small fortune. As for the alleged puncher put him before a jury.

  11. A Great Dane is a bit much for a service dog (they are a small horse). At 20 weeks there is no way to tell whether she is pregnant or just overweight without her says something, so take that off the table. I have flown Frontier, I think they should be disbanded. I can see why he got hyper without the allergy thing.

    1. Paul, a man hitting a woman, pregnant or not, is beyond despicable.

      Call me old fashioned, but put that right back on the table.

      1. wildbill99 – I am going to have to call you old-fashioned. All women are feminists now and are capable of protecting themselves. Assuming he did not know she was pregnant but just thought she was slightly overweight at 20 weeks, hitting her in the stomach would do the least permanent damage. I am not sure what really provoked it. I have a feeling there is a lot more to the story we will be getting. I am concerned about who picked a Great Dane as a service dog.

        1. Seriously? You are more concerned about why the family chose a Great Dane as a service dog than you are about a man who punched a woman in the stomach, and a dog in the head on a plane? What do you think could possibly have happened where that kind of anti-social, actually criminal, behavior was justified?

          1. L2 – he said his child was allergic to dogs and the dog was encroaching in his space. What would you do to protect your child? I think the dog could have been accommodated elsewhere under the circumstances. I do not know why he hit the deaf person. That it was a woman is no consideration. No glass ceiling, baby.

            I do think more will come out in court.

        2. I’ll grant you the Great Dane choice seemed odd to me too, they might as well have gotten a “service” Shetland Pony.
          But we must agree to disagree on the man hitting a woman.

          1. wildbill99 – that’s okay. I won’t hold it against you. 😉

            1. I’m old fashioned, I love the moonlight
              I love the old fashioned things

  12. Deplorable and craven

    And because he just couldn’t wait a few minutes until he exited the aircraft and the situation corrected itself, he earned himself both a state charge for assault and harming a service animal, and because they had not yet arrived at the gate and opened an exit door he gave the feds authority to arrest him for assault via 49 U.S. Code Chapter 465 – (Special Aircraft Jurisdiction of the United States).

    Though the courts ruled otherwise, I disagree that charging someone in federal court and also state court for the same act does not constitute double jeopardy. But depraved persons accused as this man presently stands, I might just look the other way.

    1. Darren: I’ve never been comfortable either with someone being charged twice for the same act. The legal fiction that justifies it is that two different “sovereigns,” (state and federal governments) have different intereststo pursue. That may have been true back in the 50s and 60s when it was employed to prosecute Klansmen in the Deep South for civil rights violations that the state governments couldn’t or wouldn’t prosecute. So the Feds stepped in and charged these violations in federal court. But now, 60-70 years later, it amounts to nothing but grandstanding on the part of the federal government and interference with state law enforcement. Notice that whenever there is a situation involving a black and a white (or in the case of George Zimmerman, a Hispanic) that the Feds immediately dispatch the FBI to open a civil rights investigation without any showing whatsoever that the state is failing to fairly represent the interests of the black person. Hopefully the Trump Administration will put an end to this.

  13. Waited until the descent to complain about allergies? Put em in front of a jury – verdict will be lock them up. WHAT is wrong with people??

  14. Well, he’s certainly not very “Manley.” And if the deaf couple sues him, I hope they use the money to buy a professionally trained German Shepard. One that would have taken his arm off when he tried to slug its owner.

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