We have previously followed the controversy over the shooting of “Cecil the Lion” by an American dentist Walter Palmer from Minnesota as well as subsequent controversies of a Idaho hunter taunting animal advocates and killing giant elephants or giraffes for trophies. As many of you know, I am no fan of such trophy hunts. I often hike in remote spots to see bears and other animals in their natural habitat. I cannot understand the joy of killing one of these animals or the challenge of shooting them with a high-powered rifle. I seek out these animals and take pictures with the same ease it would be to kill them. Yet, many feel a tremendous release in killing these animals and posing with their dead bodies. The latest is Tim Brent, 34, who played hockey for the Toronto Maple Leafs and the Carolina Hurricanes before retiring in 2016. He is receiving a body slam from readers who do not understand his expressions of joy in posing with a dead grizzly bear. His description of the kill made things only worse.
In one of his postings, Brent proudly proclaimed “Alright folks, here is my Mountain Grizzly! We put an awesome stalk on him but he spotted us at about 75 yards. Instead of taking off he turned and came right at us. It was very easy to tell this boar owned the valley we were hunting in and wasn’t scared of anything!”
Of course, he wasn’t scared of anything because he had no idea of what a high-powered rifle is. So Brent stood with a group of hunters with high-powered weapons and killed a magnificent animals who “owned the valley.” Now he owns the bear. Why is that impressive or joyous? I am not saying that Brent did anything wrong. I just fail to understand the thrill in the kill.
In another photo of Brent held up the massive paw, and asked “Did you know on average a single Grizzly eats around 40 Moose and Caribou calves during each calving season?”
Not anymore Tim, not anymore.
There is joy in hunting. I only have hunted small game. It was fun, i enjoyed the stalking and the killing, and even the missing, and I missed a lot. I would do it again.
It’s one of those things that people have done since time immemorial, and moderns make fun of a lot but usually only when they haven’t done it.
I have no beef with this. But I live in flyover and don’t work at a university.
RE: Wyoming, it’s my fantasy to live in on a ranch in Wyoming……but now I am re-thinking that..LOL
We have acquaintances who live in Phoenix but have a cabin in Wyoming, where they spend summers. In all of our emailings, they have never mentioned Grizzlies!
Cindy Bragg – Wyoming, like all the Western states is huge. The eastern part of Wyoming is where the deer and antelope play. The western part is where Yellowstone National Park is. The east is part of the Great Plains, the west is part of the Rocky Mountains. Tell me where they live and I will tell you how bear safe it is. 😉
Paul C…..they’re back home in the Phoenix area now .She and my hubby were at Baylor together.
She and HER hubby are only in Wy during summer months.(I think he’s a prof at ASU? or one of the Univ) I don’t remember the town’s name, but they are further west, closer to mountains, from say, Buffalo….Buffalo, was my favorite town in Wy. loved the old hotel (Occidental?) Where the book The Virginian was written….Also, there was an espresso shop at the little blue motel…..so quaint.
I told our friends that we had only been in the middle and eastern parts of Wyoming, (Hubby wanted to go to little Big Horn Monument and Battlefield on the Montana border, and I wanted to see the Oregon Trail ruts in the east……so we made Caspar our central Hdqtrs.)
We both fell in love with Wy. and the terrain. Along the interstate, it changes into such interesting shapes as you head north to Little Big Horn.
I’ll write her today and ask about the Grizzlies.
Cindy Bragg – the Grizzlies are the mascots for the University of Montana in Missoula. I grew up not far from the Custer Battlefield, as it was known when I was growing up and my school is named after Custer, as is the county. I have been to the battlefield several times. The last time after the huge grass fire cleared out the buffalo grass and you could actually follow the battle again. It is in the southeastern corner of Montana. Last time I came in through Wyoming, too.
Paul C. Oh my gosh, my husband is going to be so jealous to hear you grew up right there! What an incredible place to be! We were there in about 2007. I think? Don’t think that grass fire had occurred yet? Hubby would have loved to have seen it with the grass cleared As we drove through the Park, neither of us said it word…It was really an emotional experience….because you hear about it all your life……and then there it is. My husband loves Native Amc history of any kind…I do too. But he reads about it all the time. Quanah Parker is about his favorite. Also, hubby was best man in a Comanche wedding in Lawton Okla about 20 years ago……wonderful experience..
Thanks Paul C.Schulte for that info!
Paul C……. Correction…..we were there July of 2010
Cindy Bragg – you should have stopped and walked the battlefield. You can see that they were being pursued up to the hill. They found skeletons of soldiers after the grassfire and were able to use metal detectors to track the battle. Last time I was there I miss a re-enactment by one day. Custer is a divisive figure in that part of the state. You are either for him or against him. However, he wrote an excellent book a couple of years before he died which I think is available on Project Gutenberg. It really gives you a feel for what was going on in the West at that time and what the cavalry was up against.
Paul C. Schulte………..oh, sorry, I didn’t explain that after we drove around, hubby took me back to the visitor’s center. That was back when my leg and back problems had begun, so I couldn’ t do the wzlking, so I sat out Hubby did walk it, and saw where Custer fell, etc. He was deeply moved by it all. I’ll tell him about the book…Thanks!
Paul C. Schulte………Good news…….I found the Custer book in hardback. It’s a reproduction of the original!
It’s going to be hubby’s birthday gift, which is in 3 weeks. I ordered it today
Thank you so much for telling me about it……..He will love it.
Cindy Bragg – let me know what he thinks when he finishes it. 😉
These trophy hunts are too one-sided. The right to bear arms should be accompanied by the right to arm bears !
Jay S – Grizzlies are already heavily armed. I think the Park Service put down two grizzlies last week for killing two humans. Knocked them off their horses and killed them. I keep telling you, they are apex predators.
If a few older male grizzly bears were harvested each year in states like Wyoming ,Montana and Idaho it would not harm the overall grizzly population. In Wyoming a controlled hunting season was supposed to happen where a few permits were to be awarded through a lottery. Male grizzlys only. As soon as a female was harvested the hunt would be ended. Over the past year and a half or so roughly 20 grizzlys had to be removed from the Yellowstone ecosystem. Some were euthanized and some were tranquilizer and moved to a different local. People have reportedly seen grizzly bears in parts of Wyoming that haven’t been seen in over 100 years. If we let the biologist that work for these states manage the wildlife I think things will be O’k.
The latest is Tim Brent, 34, who played hockey for the Toronto Maple Leafs and the Carolina Hurricanes before retiring in 2016. He is receiving a body slam from readers who do not understand his expressions of joy in posing with a dead grizzly bear.
Big game, little men.
Our son-in-law hunts on our ranch, where he and our daughter and grandsons live….We have deer, turkeys, wild hogs. He is an expert, and is teaching our grandsons to respect animals, guns, and hunting. He is also going to teach them to hunt with bow and arrow.
They eat what they kill…….and he usually cooks in what he calls the Cajun microwave, a box in the ground with coals…..delicious!
He is known for this all over this part of the county.. But It’s wonderful to see our grandsons learning to respect nature. Also, our son-in-law has rescued about as many animals as he has killed. In our neck of the woods, That’s the way most hunters are…….just great people.
Judge cancels the first planned hunt of grizzly bears in Wyoming in 40 years.
Father of 2 gets mauled to death by a grizzly, who attacked him while he was dressing out an elk.
The complaint that has been raised is that the population of grizzlies has risen to the point that they are a threat to people, which was one of the reasons behind the planned hunt, which was delayed.
I have not seen the data on the grizzly population of Wyoming, or the number of mailings, or if they are on the rise.
This is for those who do not know of a reason why a state would allow a grizzly hunt.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/09/17/wyoming-hunting-guide-fatally-mauled-by-grizzly-bears.html
In the wild, if a predator population grows too great, they eat out their food supply, become aggressive, and then eventually starve out until their populations go back to within normal levels.
When this takes place where humans are, it throws people together with hungry, aggressive bears.
Caveat – I do not know any of the data on the Wyoming bear population, or if it has exceeded environmental support carrying capacity. This is for general information only.
Fish and Game does not often allow a species to starve out. They try to avoid, for instance, deer overgrazing which would dramatically alter the environment.
As an example of an ecosystem coming into balance, when wolves were reintroduced to Yellowstone, elk moved up to the mountains, stopped overgrazing, and the area reforested.
“Take all you want; eat all you take.”
– Anonymous
In Vietnam, the prey shot back.
George – there is a Pinterest card for aliens on humans as game. It is very funny and true.
“Predator”
“Hasta la vista, baby!”
I am no snowflake, and wholeheartedly believe in property rights, including private stewardship of the wild, both plant and animal. That said, I find this trophy killing completely UNsporting, lacking anything resembling honorable sportsmanship. In fact, ganging up on a grizzly, deer, whatever, using high powered rifles fired from a considerably safe distance, providing no chance of escape or evasion for the prey, and no justifiable risk for the predator(s), a cowardly enterprise with zero merit. It is heartbreaking to see such callous disregard for life. Shame on Tim Brent and all such faux hunters who can’t or won’t discern the difference between necessary hunting and blatant slaughter.
Kathleen – they only give out enough tags to cull the populations. This is necessary hunting. If they don’t meet their cull targets, professional hunters are hired to kill them from helicopters. Which would you have? Someone who pays the state to hunt for the bear or someone the state pays to kill the bear?
kathleen:
Grizzly hunts are not “shooting fish” in the barrel events. Here’ s a read on what it’s like by a hunter and his daughter who went with him:
http://www.petersenshunting.com/featured/to-hunt-a-grizzly/
JT:
“I often hike in remote spots to see bears and other animals in their natural habitat. I cannot understand the joy of killing one of these animals or the challenge of shooting them with a high-powered rifle.”
*********************************
I don’t understand the joy of traipsing around the desert alone in 90 degree heat but I would never have the presumptiveness to suggest that you shouldn’t do it. I don’t hunt because I almost got shot for the privilege, but again, I see no to interpose my beliefs on others.
BTW it costs about $2,500.00 per hour to the taxpayers of California to dispatch a helicopter to rescue a hiker. Hunters pay for that like everybody else in taxes and then again in hunting fees:
https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Search-and-Rescue-Costs–Who-Pays-202237181.html
Here’s a little fact to be served with all this blubbering emotion over G̶r̶i̶z̶z̶l̶y̶ Teddy Bears:
Press Release
Federal Register Notice
June 22, 2017 – WASHINGTON – Due to the success of conservation efforts and collaboration among a variety of stakeholders, U.S. Secretary of the Interior Ryan Zinke announced today that the Yellowstone population of the grizzly bear has been recovered to the point where federal protections can be removed and overall management can be returned to the states and tribes. The population has rebounded from as few as 136 bears in 1975 to an estimated 700 today and meets all the criteria for delisting.
I often hike in remote spots to see bears and other animals in their natural habitat. I cannot understand the joy of killing one of these animals or the challenge of shooting them with a high-powered rifle. I seek out these animals and take pictures with the same ease it would be to kill them.
I bet they wouldn’t understand why an experienced nature lover as yourself would need to have his butt hauled out by helicopter either.
Seek first to understand, then to be understood.
Keep trying.
Olly:
You’re a hard man to argue with!
Headed? Thanks Mark!
Our world is full of things we can legally do but probably shouldn’t.
The lust to kill animals is very similar to rape. It simply satisfies a lust driven by testosterone. Those who enjoy killing are also likely to engage in rape. Stay away from them and keep your daughters away from them.
What planet are you transmitting from, Sam?
Try reading Arthur Conan Doyle’s Hound of the Baskervilles. I am certainly not the first to make the observation.
Doyle wrote fiction just like you do!
Do you mean to say that you base your opinion upon a work of fiction rather than any statistical data or peer reviewed studies on hunters and rape?
Sam – you know so much about this. I have a former student (female) who does deer hunting as a family activity. She is quite proud of her kills. She does not plan to rape anyone. She is happily married with 3 beautiful sons.
To quote David Benson you are Making Stuff Up.
It simply satisfies a lust driven by testosterone.
Then we should conclude you have even less testosterone coursing through your veins than the female big game hunters Turley and others have reported on.
Unless of course you are Samantha, then your comment is only slightly less idiotic.
Sam, you equate hunting with the ritual and sadistic torturing and killing of animals. The former has fed our species for over 30,000 years. The latter is a hallmark of the psychopath. They are not the same.
There are a great many people who fill their freezers with fish and game. They take pride in feeding their families. Hunting is quite difficult, usually, and so those who do it can take great pride in a successful hunt.
“Those who enjoy killing are also likely to engage in rape.” Based on what? Do fishermen engage in rape because they like fishing, which does indeed kill the fish, and they do enjoy the act of fishing a great deal. Find it relaxing, even. Montana, Wyoming, and North and South Dakota have more than 20% of the population apply for hunting licenses, and Maine is close behind. 20% of the population of these states are not rapists or aspiring rapists, and many of those hunters are women. I know people who raise animals for food. The meat is organic and the conditions are far superior to some factory. My friend taught a poultry processing lesson. Someone brought in a few battery hens. She had rescued them, but they were too ill for her to release with her own flock. She was told she had to euthanize them, so she went to the class to learn how to do it humanely. Each of them were riddled with disease, and the illnesses were all different, ranging from tumors to pulmonary disease. The birds were so sick that my friend advised against letting her feed them to her dogs, but rather to dispose of the carcasses. And that’s where our nation gets most of its cheap eggs. My hens are my pets, all named, and the all come running when I call them. My bantam roo will fall asleep and go limp like a dead bird when I pet him, he gets so relaxed. But I do not judge anyone who raises birds for meat. It’s food independence.
I have absolutely no idea if Tim Brent hunted the grizzly for food. I do know that states take in revenue from hunting licenses. The success of our species and dispersed population, with high densities, changes the predator prey balance in all ecosystems. We remove the predators, and then the prey populations increase. With no natural culling, they will destroy the ecosystem with over grazing. When chronic wasting disease hits a deer population, it’s different than “Mad Cow” bovine spongiform encephalopathy. The prions will survive in grass, not just neural tissue, and will do so for years. I do not know if they are resistant to autoclaving like BSE prions. When the disease reaches an area, a state will have hunters cull and discard all deer in an effort to stop the spread. Grizzly bear populations can get large enough that it becomes dangerous to human habitation. I have no idea if the grizz population has reached that threshold, if there is a need for a cull, or if they are managing grizzlies like a natural resource that can withstand periodic harvesting, brining in revenue to the states.
Trophy hunting is not for me. I consider it a waste of life. I cannot stand taxidermy stories. I want to cry in Jackson Hole. Hunting should be for food or protection, whether for yourself or others. That said, I do not have the right to dictate to others what they may legally do, or what they may like. It is wrong to boycott or punish or drive from employment anyone who engages in a legal activity. If you don’t like the legal activity, then change the law.
It’s fine to declare that you don’t like an activity, and why. We do have free speech in this country, and I certainly hold strong opinions. But it’s wrong to say that hunters should be shot, or killed, or that they are wannabe rapists, because they hunt. We are a free people, and do not have the right to dictate to others how to live, as long as they do so within the law.
“We remove the predators, and then the prey populations increase. With no natural culling, they will destroy the ecosystem with over grazing.” Amen, Karen.
A few decades ago, the state I once lived in had severely restricted deer hunting owing to pressure by virtue-signaling environments. The result: the deer flourished until they ran out of food. Then they began to starve. When reasonable heads prevailed and the deer were culled, they were less than half the weight they should have been. But their stomachs were full of bark and other matter they could not digest. In their quest for any food at all, they had destroyed much of the habitat necessary for what smaller mammals and birds needed to survive.
Where I now live, there are severe restrictions on cougar hunting. The deer are multiplying and have moved into areas of human habitation where they live semi-tame amongst happy human beings. Guess where the cougars are showing up? Right! They’re following their food!
We have had a cougar sighting within ½ a mile of my house, and every now and again we hear stories of cougars carrying off someone’s pet (as in right off the deck). One person I talked to had taken a group of scouts out for a nature walk, only to find that his group was being stalked by a cougar (fortunately, nothing happened). A close friend — a VERY experienced outdoorsman/survivalist/former hunter heard a cougar scream not 100 yards away from him. He was really scared. In he Pacific Northwest, there have been 2 cougar kills in the last year.
This is not Disneyland. Cougar numbers are increasing and they have learned that people are not a threat.
Good balanced commentary. I was emotionally with the anti’s before. Like Turley, in my younger days I hiked in wilderness. I’ve seen magnificent grizzlies fairly close in Denali. But I now see both sides of the issue. Yeah, I eat meat and would be a hypocrite to criticize Brent who apparently was not doing anything illegal.
Good on Mr. Brent. l always wanted to go after a grizzly, but could never get a tag before I moved to Arizona. Ask Lewis and Clarke how warm and cuddly the grizzly is. They are an apex predator and human killer. They are also very fast runners, faster than men.
Shoot the dork in the head. When charged with murder present his dead bear photos or videos in your defense. If the jury convicts you then have your friends shoot the jurors. Shoot em in the head and take their photos.
Do you condone the killing of the majority of the population in the US, who are omnivores? After all, they benefit from the operation of slaughterhouses, poultry processing plants, and commercial fishing. And they do enjoy a good steak or juicy hamburger. That must mean they delight in the killing of animals. Chefs who take great pride in their culinary skills with meat, fish, poultry, and game must all be rapists!
Only 0.5% of the population, the vegans, would be left. That would also mean that they are homicidal maniacs, if they condoned the murder of 325 million people because they eat meat and should be shot in the head. So they should go, too.
People purchase and cook meat for sustainence. They usually consume all that they purchase. This guy isn’t living in the wilds and hunting to feed his family. Do you really think he’s going to eat that bear? He’s hunting for fun. It’s called trophy hunting and his “trophy” will be to hang the animal’s head on his wall or make a rug of its hide. To what purpose? To show off what he killed. Kind of sick, really.
Tin, here every year people go dear hunting & many just like the hunt & give away the extra meat to the needy or friends.
Clearing out the extra deer helps cut down on those injured or killed by deer on the roadways.
Non corrupt game management can be very helpful.
Some big city people haven’t a clue as to real life, sorry they’ll be the 2st to starve when it gets tuff.
Even Trump at times.
Of course those who lust to kill don’t eat the meat. It tastes horrible and is likely contaminated. They try to give away the meat, and once the recipients taste it, they throw it away.
At least those who say things like “Clearing out the extra deer helps cut down on…….whatever” recognize that killing is wrong and they must conjure up some sort of plausible justification. It’s not plausible and doesn’t fool anyone. You lust to kill. Admit it..
Sam – you really are a soy boy, aren’t you. You have never been hunting. When I was growing up in Montana, on your resident hunting licence you got 2 deer and 1 elk. You drew for antelope and traded one of your deer tags for an antelope tag of you won the draw. There are boutique butcher shops that open during the season and we had an old ice cream freezer we could keep the meat in. If we were not lucky, lucky neighbors gave us some of theirs. If they were not lucky, we gave them some of ours. Of course, the parish always got some. A deer is at best a couple of hundred pounds of meat, and antelope less. For a family of seven, that was cheap meat. Yes, venison is an acquired taste, if you grow up with it you are accultured to it.
Paul:
Even the dumb ol’ NYT “gets” deer meat:
https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1016955-marinated-venison-steaks
mespo – I can remember how shocked (shocked I say) I was when I heard that people hunted deer with shotguns. We always used rifles. The deer never allowed us to get close enough to use a shotgun. 😉
PCS: I do remember Granny in the Beverly Hillbillies making possum pot pies. I guess you just make do with what you have! 😉
I didn’t know you could hunt deer with a scatter gun.
I have quite a few relatives and friends who hunt, but I wasn’t raised to it. I would just name everything and would be pointless on a hunt.
We used shotguns, Paul. BUt people forget we also get to use dogs to run the dear toward the stands.
mespo – here is the West we hunt mule and whited-tail deer. I am really curious about the dear you hunt with dogs. 😉
It’s those fast moving white-tails. We have about a million here in the Virginia herd which is more than capt. John Smith could have seen in 1607.
out here it’s too densely populated to allow rifle hunting of deer. they can use shotgun or bow and maybe handguns too I think.
you can use 22 for squirrels and varmints
legalize suppressors! improve hunter safety
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/06/19/the-hearing-protection-act-and-silencers/?utm_term=.13557f0dc511
If the meat tastes terrible it wasn’t blooded correctly.
Wild game is natural, organic meat raised in the wild, totally free. When done correctly, they do not suffer. Compare and contrast this to the experience of intensive farming, where cattle get stuffed into filthy feed lots, sleeping in their own wet manure, which gets scraped into huge piles. The air blows the dried manure everywhere, which means that it smells like cow poo for miles around a feed lot. And then they get to experience the horrors of the slaughterhouse. Which would be better for the animal – living wild and free and getting taken out far quicker than by any other predator, which would rip it to shreds and eat it alive, or the slaughterhouse?
People may buy their meat shrink wrapped in tidy little packages, but meat is not born in plastic wrap.
“recognize that killing is wrong”. That would only be safe from hypocrisy for a vegan, who never ever takes a medication based on any animal research or animal products, and veganism is infamous for being a very unhealthy diet.
As before, do fishermen lust to kill? Your personal opinions on hunting has become bigotry.
I don’t know about grizzlies, but black bear are hunted for a food source in places like Alaska.
As I’ve stated, I do not like trophy hunting at all unless it was an animal that was threatening people, or it needed to be culled for over population. Bigotry or wishing harm upon hunters is utterly and completely wrong.
At least now everyone knows that he is a killer, and most who know him will avoid him.
It’s a good thing that the bag limit on crazies is zero, Sam.
Sam – are you kidding??? In his circle he is now a demi-god. His popularity score went from 10 to 20 over-night. You have to stop hanging out with snowflakes.
I have to respectfully disagree with our host: this man did nothing wrong. He engaged in a legal game hunt, licensed by the state, and harvested the bear. This is what human beings have done for epochs. We hunt for food, like other animals hunt for food.
What difference is there between this bear and a cow? Both are sentient beings, probably of similar intelligence. Surely each views themselves as relevant. But we condemn this hunter–some with death-threats–because he chose to harvest bear meat while most of them delight themselves over how juicy that beef steak was and how comfortable those leather seats are of their luxury car. But the bear hunter cannot make a rug out of the bear.
If a hunter consumed only what he harvested in the sticks and did not purchase meat from industrial slaughterhouses why should he be castigated? What infers more suffering: factory animal farming or taking a wild animal who lives its life in nature and most avoid being caught. All animals in slaughterhouses get killed, ones in nature at least have a chance.
Darren good post.
I truly believe in game management, the deer, etc.
To help make P Turley, Dr Michael Savage & myself happy maybe we could come up with a new scam to help even up the odds for the animals.
Something like for every license to hunt a bear the state/feds sells 10 licenses to hunt the bear hunters. & the rest of us could gamble on the outcome of the hunt. LOL:)
I’m not sure but hear til that may already be going on in Africa.
And if an animal kills a human we don’t kill the animal, instead we have the human stuffed, placed in a clear case out where the hunts take place as a warning to others & a trophy for the animals. LO:)
Good post, Darren.