Idaho Republican lieutenant governor candidate Bob Nonini has triggered a firestorm after saying that women who get an abortion should be criminally prosecuted and indicated that that could include the death penalty. If it seems a tad conflicted to execute someone in the name of being pro-life, Nonini seems to be still trying to thread that needle with a later effort to walk back from his comments.
Nonini, a three term state senator from Coeur d’Alene, made the comments during a Monday candidate forum in Moscow hosted by the conservative Christian podcast CrossPolitic. Nonini decided to put himself on the farthest possible extreme in declaring that “There should be no abortion and anyone who has an abortion should pay.” When asked if that would include the death penalty, Nonini nodded in agreement and later confirmed the position in the call with The Associated Press.
Nonini was predictably buried in criticism and later tried to repair the damage with a new statement: “Prosecutions have always been focused on the abortionist. There is no way a woman would go to jail let alone face the death penalty. The statute alone, the threat of prosecution, would dramatically reduce abortion. That is my goal.”
That did not actually reverse his view that the death penalty would be warranted but said that it was not likely. He also added that his wife, Cathyanne, does not position on executing women who have had abortions.
Notably, Nonini has emphasized his Roman Catholic values but the Pope has opposed the death penalty as well as abortion as part of a holistic pro-life view.
Nonini’s website says his favorite movie is The Ten Commandments and his favorite quote is “Plant your seeds firmly in the ground and don’t move from that position.” A real thinker, that guy. Hahaha.
There is a beauty in simplicity that fools and cynics will never know.
You should know, hahaha. This is to, “I’m a simpleton so I guess I must be beautiful,” Cinderblock.
Miss Kitty! You are so good to me. Thanks for stopping by!
When the National Socialist German Workers’ Party (Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei or NSDAP) defended killing all in the name of self-preservation.. just like abortionists
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fclbs6WoMtU
Killing is killing. Only the abortionists think it is glamorous and a “right”
Get a life. Hiding behind the make-believe bodies of imaginary children because you dream of the days when women were the chattel property of their nearest male relative isn’t gonna help you get a date. I suggest you come up with another “pickup” strategy. I thought you incels weren’t complaining, what happened to you?
this is to “match.com can’t seem to find me a match” thorsie
Capital punishment notwithstanding, this guy has a point. Without birth, there is no nation. Perhaps Congress should legislate baby factories.
The American population is being diluted out of existence. The American birthrate is in a “death spiral.” Soon the American population will consist entirely of hyphenate invaders due to a rejection by women of their natural function and national duty to generate a population sufficient to defend the nation and grow its population.
The population is being imported.
Abortions of Americans contribute to the extinction of the American population and the nation.
The American Founders were emphatically pro-motherhood with a goal of growing the nation. As original intent, the Founders established the composition of the population of the nation. Their legislation on immigration, the Naturalization Act of 1790, required that citizens shall be “…free white person(s)…”
Abortions and extreme reductions in the birthrate are responsible for the demise of the American population and the American nation.
Should elected officials in a republic be concerned with existential threats?
Some would say yes.
Or you could examine the causative factors.If woman were supported in their role as Mothers, if Men actually ACTed like it was important WHEN it was important….brutalizing woman to carry the burdens and free men up for their golf games and “Impeccable” reputations is the male wet dream manifest. If men acted like men then you could ask women to act like women. You have no right to force people into slavery, not here, not anywhere. Stop beating up women and maybe they will become less defensive and fearfull. Stop killing thier babies with economic bombs. Stop blaming them for every phucking thing you balless twad.
Becka, you’ve got issues with men-qua-men. For which the unborn child is not culpable.
TTTP,
“Qua.”
Nice touch.
I wish I could have attended law school.
George, Tabarrock isn’t a lawyer. He’s a towel boy at a gay bath house, but he gets credits towards his G.E.D. by posting on this blog.
🙂
you definitely sound like a lawyer!
yes, I do have issues with SOME men. On the whole I like them very much. In the part…I’ve met more than a few unlikeable. We all have issues that cover our issues.
“Tabarrok to the Pillory says:
Becka, you’ve got issues with men-qua-men. For which the unborn child is not culpable.”
Not at all. I enjoy men that behave like men. I take issue with men that behave like brutal animals and such. And I have been very lucky in my early exposure to what men are so my standards are pretty high.
Becka, you said:
if Men actually ACTed like it was important WHEN it was important….brutalizing woman to carry the burdens and free men up for their golf games
The constituency for golf, with some exceptions, would be men of the professional-managerial class supplemented with prosperous small business. Percolates a bit deeper than that, but that’s the bulk of it. Very few men ‘brutalize’ their wives; It’s particularly unusual in that class of people. That social fiction is what your imagination reaches for, because your imagination is poisonous. A prudent man will stay away from you.
Becka G – what, in your feminist fluid gender makeup, makes a man? Give us your standards so we all know what we have to live up to or live down to.
Well, that’s your opinion. My opinion, is that you don’t really have any thinking idea about birth control, but since hannity is carping about it and has provided you with an opinion, his is as good as any other. Unfortunately for you and the other wackjobs who can’t get a date with a real female, the days when women were the chattel property of their nearest male relative are over. What that means for you and the other unsavories, is that you’ll need to step up your game. Even if you weirdos get your wish and birth control becomes more difficult, you still will be you–with the same dating results. So sorry for your loss.
this is to “so what’s so wrong with hateful, small-minded wackjobs who post anonymous, ridiculous nonsense on the interwebs?” tabbie
My great aunt died at age 24 of an illegal abortion. It was during the Depression and they were literally starving. They couldn’t feed another child, so she went to some hack who botched the abortion and she died. Her husband, a real upstanding “man,” couldn’t deal with raising the four children on his own and abandoned them. They were parceled out like kittens and my grandparents took in the older boy. Nobody knows what happened to the others. People who pine for the ‘good old days’ don’t know much about them.
TIN – My grandmother on my mother’s side died in childbirth when my mother was about 12. It was also the Depression. They were able to hang on. The first year I taught college, I had a “returning student” about my mother’s age who had been kicked out of the house at age 14 because they could not afford to feed her. Her parents told her she was sitting on her “money-maker.”
The president of my sophomore class got pregnant, the treasurer of the junior class got pregnant and the secretary of the senior class got pregnant. They all went to visit “relatives.” Then returned to finish their academic careers. Now we were not supposed to know that happened, but it was a small town. My brother got his college gf pregnant. They flew to Vegas to get married and lived in hell with her parents until he could afford an apartment for the two of them.
Paul – Ah, life in those small towns! I had another great-uncle who played around in his early 20s and got two GFs pregnant. So he had to write checks every month for 18 years to support two children he never knew. And it was all kept a secret. Then when he got married, they only had one child due to his other financial obligations. My mother had always wondered why he and his wife only had one child, and after he passed away his widow told my mom the reason. My mother was shocked, and she now refers to her former favorite cousin as “that damned Jerry!” 😤
TIN, did the government birth-police come and force your aunt to have sexual intercourse, to not give the child up for adoption or to have an abortion? We do live in the world and women do get pregnant and have babies, don’t we/they? Are women to be “relieved” of their natural function in a world of nature? I’m just a little confused. What was it that nature or God expected of or intended for your aunt and women in general? Survival of the fittest is axiomatic. What the —- are we all doing here? Looks like the sole purpose of human beings when all is said and done is perpetuation of the species. The singular, sole and only thing of import or persistence that human beings can accomplish in this universe is perpetuation of the species. Everything else will vanish.
If they couldn’t feed a child, how did they feed themselves? It does take some personal incentive and ambition to persist in life. God never promised you a rose garden. The Empire State Building was built in 1933. GM opened as assembly plant in South Gate, CA, in 1936. A wise man told me once, “During the Depression, you could always get a job; you might not like the job but you could always get a job.” His reference was sweeping the barber shop floor. I believe him. I don’t subscribe to the use of “bad times” as an excuse.
Excuses are like a——s, everybody’s got one.
Where there’s a will, there’s a way.
Please post more materials. Just. Like. This.
read it and weep wackjobs, this is one of your fellow-travelers. Own it.
this is to “spaceman” georgie – paulie
“If I were your wife I would put poison in your coffee,” Nancy Astor, Britain’s first female MP, to Winston Churchill.
“Nancy, if I were your husband I would drink it,” Winston Churchill.
America is not responsible for Jeff Bezos’ success
and
America is not responsible for Becka G’s failure.
______________________________________
The American thesis is Freedom and Self-Reliance,
not supporting caterwauling and dependent parasites.
What failure are you referring to?
Becka G – feminists won’t tell you this, but studies have shown the women hit men more than men hit women.
PC Schulte,…
I’d like to see a study of whether men would prefer A. getting hit by a foaming-at- the mouth feminist like Becka G., or B.
listening to her strident, canned, over -the -top, militant, 1970s -style feminist talking points.
Tom Nash – 1) who would fund the study and 2) who would be willing to give it? 😉
PCS – Is the impact of a woman hitting a man the same as that of a man hitting a woman?
Kevin Finnerty – I have never hit a woman in my life. However, a woman did crack a rib of mine because she did not like a joke I told so she gave me a very sharp jab in in the ribs. And men are too ashamed to admit they have been beaten up by women.
Fatty and Skinny went to bed; Fatty rolled over and…broke Paul’s rib. This is to, “Those 300 lb. women are hazardous to my health, but I just can’t control myself,” Paulie.
Kitty Wampus – fat shaming again. Shame on you. However, she was about 118 lbs, soaking wet, with very sharp elbows. 😉
“if Men actually ACTed like it was important ”
Becka, you seem to have issues with men and seem ill equiped to deal with them.
“SEEM? to have issues with men”!?!, Allan?
‘Tis but a politeness.
Very good, David.
Tom, I was trying to be nice. I actually pity women or men that cannot get along with the opposite sex. That is generally becaiuse they are not complete persons and have to blame someone else for their failures.
“Not complete persons?” No, it is more likely based on the person’s experiences in life. If, for example, her father was a drunken bum, or husband was violent towards his wife and children, she would likely be leery of men. I read once that Ted Bundy was born as the product of incest. People are shaped psychologically, for better or for worse, by their families.
Yes, many have to overcome terrible past experiences, Kevin. Unless they overcome them they are incomplete persons. The first step is to recognize that not all men are drunks etc. and that many men are good people and some women stink. Then comes the healing.
Kevin Finnerty – the entire House of Windsor is based on incest. There is no connection between incest and serial murders.
I think if you’re looking at descendants of George V, all but two who married did so exogamously. The exceptions would be the current Queen (who married a 3d cousin) and her uncle the Duke of Kent (who married a 2d cousin). George V married a 2d cousin. I think under antique canon law, only the Duke of Kent and perhaps George V would have required an ecclesiastical dispensation.
Paul C. For something interesting………you ought to go to Drudge and click on link about Camile Paglia ..it’s called something like “Feminism is destroying civilization”…..or something similar. She has some powerful statements on the new feminism…….also on that same link, there’s a video by a woman (Fiamengo?) about Palo Alto and Chrissy. It is excellent!
Cindy Bragg – I have been binging all her videos. She is up to 90 now. I have seen about 50. It has really been an education on 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Wave Feminism including Feminazis. She can be brutal in the nicest way. 😉
Allan………I have always enjoyed the company of men. I’m sure it has a lot to do with my admiration for by big brother, 4 yrs my senior. We’ve always been close, and without having to see each other often.
Also, boys were raised differently and I felt I could trust them more than those conniving, manipulative girls….LOL. Such generalizations, but there you have it! LOL
Cindy, you are a complete person. Becka is not. I like almost anyone that is a decent human, male, female, gay, Democrat, Republican black, brown, white, etc. It really doesn’t make a difference unless someone cannot control themselves. The ends are similar. No one wants people dying in the street. It is the means that differ and the means that cause unintended consequences that some refuse to consider.
Exactly, Allan!
Wow, the self empowered MOB strikes! So brave ;P. Firstly you can think whatever you like about me, who you don’t know, who you have responded to beyond my words and well into your ‘own understanding’. This is still a free Country and the skies are always BLUE. I am not, sorry to dissapoint your so very sharp perceptions, a feminist. I am a Humanist. I am not willing to cut out half of humanity because I personally have had less than ideal experiences. I’ve also had some pretty amazing ones so I don’t feel that I’ve missed out in the relationship department. If I did not care for men I’d be gay. I don’t care if ‘you’ think me whole…that is for G*d to judge…and me to aspire to…my wholeness is not defined by you or any pack animal, certainly not some faceless feckless turd bomb on a blogshow. I come here to perhaps get other perspectives so that I can examine my own. There are some unwilling to do even that much. I don’t believe anyones’ sole purpose is the perpetuation of the species….we crossed that watermark years ago…more people now may actually ENDANGER that goal. But you have to think and pay attention to facts to see that. And find someone else to personally attack…you don’t have to agree with me but your attacks show who you are….and why I have some issues with cowardly man-mobs.
Becka, I only know you from your words and those words indicate an incomplete person who needs to overcome some serious problems. You can call yourself what you wish but that doesn’t solve any of your problems.
“If I did not care for men I’d be gay.”
Not necessarily. But that type of statement fits in with your comparmentalism.
Maybe you should talk to Cindy. She seems to have a head on her shoulders.
REEEE
“Allan says: October 11, 2018 at 9:16 PM
Cindy, you like and don’t threaten me, you are therefore are a complete person. Becka is not. ”
There, I fixed that for ya 😉
“Cindy, you like and don’t threaten me, you are therefore are a complete person. Becka is not. ”
Becka, why not correct your grammar and sentence structure? Then perhaps it will say what you want. But it will not be what I wrote. However, it sounds like you might be learning the lesson. 😀
George: Anyone who has experienced traffic in most U.S. cities has no desire to further “grow the nation.” But if your underlying concern is the decline of white people in the U.S., that could be solved by changing the diversity lottery to a preference for Europeans, particularly the Irish. Right now, most immigrants who come here legally are from Africa. Congress is afraid of being labeled racist, however, so it is unlikely to pass legislation recognizing a preference for persons of European culture and fluency in the English language. Those who think this problem will be solved by denying abortions in a few states are deluding themselves. Yes, some meth addicts without credit cards will be forced to have mentally and physically defective offspring, but everyone else will hop on a plane and go to California to get an abortion.
I think that is the point. America is committing suicide. Men appear to be complicit with the women rebelling against; rejecting their natural function. What happens to a country that has no babies? Think about it. I’m sorry but women simply have no option. Either a nation’s women generate a population sufficient to defend and grow the nation or there is no nation. America’s population is being imported. Who the he– dreamed that bit of insanity up – “multiculturalism” – someone who hates America, Americans and American culture. It’s as if America developed terminal cancer which has fully metastasized. The patient is killing himself.
A metaphor: Terrorists on a plane intent on murder and suicide by crashing the plane into a structure owned by someone they envy in possession of something they covet.
Women will kill everyone on the American plane simply to abrogate their natural function, duty and obligation. It is incoherence and hysteria with an exponent. The ship is sinking and the Captain must do something to save it.
P.S. You don’t suppose that was the insight of the Founders when they did not even consider allowing women to vote – that they knew something modern Americans don’t?
George – It is Congress that writes immigration laws, and Congress is about 90% white males. So blame them for destroying American culture, because they are the ones who decided to fill this country with escapees from Third World sh!tholes.
Kitty Wampus, you caught me.
I will never understand who gave imported “property” (i.e. freed slaves), foreign Mexicans and women the vote.
Seriously, the bottom line is not the voter, per se, it is the vote itself; its worth and clout.
A responsible republic is transformed into an incoherent and hysterical democrazy then dictatorship when its vote is diffused and diluted of all value and consequence.
I’m beginning to think that a majority of elected officials bought the fraud of the Communist Manifesto which failed even the Russian totalitarians after 75 years. You know “Crazy Abe” Lincoln not only read Marx’s work, he was influenced directly by communist German immigrants fleeing rebellion charges in Germany.
George –
Is it every woman’s “natural function” to be a baby factory? Over any other plan, hope, or aspiration?
Wow, you hate women don’t you? After all, they are not human beings….simple vessels to carry your seed. Wake UP! Population issues are GLOBAL. It is not a womans job to breed white American pies….You like a stable white American population??? Stop sending Americans to war. And stop blaming women who aspire to be something beyond cattle.
Becka G – stop being a shill for the feminist movement.
I recommend that you utilize crazy georgie’s posts for nothing more than amusement. He’s as mad as a hatter, but will often provide coffee-spewing nonsensical whimsy.
to becka
TIN – the traffic problem is different in LA than it is in PHX. The nation has to grow or die, so we have to deal with the traffic. 😉
PCS, Amen!
Women of a nation must have babies or they will kill the nation.
A nation’s birth or fertility rate must be sufficient to defend and grow the nation.
Women are physically capable of bearing 26 children over their lifetimes, as a statistical consideration.
Importing the population was customarily and traditionally referred to as invasion.
“Multiculturalism” is the newspeak of an incoherent new age.
Preamble to the Constitution:
“…to ourselves and our posterity.”
TIN, I was raised in California and went through public school with Americans. Many decades ago, an accident stopped the 91 Fwy once and people got out of their cars. I was shocked to see mostly foreigners. I had presumed that I was driving among Americans. Later, on that freeway, I encountered a bumper sticker that said, “Will the last American out take down the flag.” that was not too long after I had returned from a government mandated trip to Vietnam where I had to fight for Vietnam. In California the foreign invasion has been completed without a shot being fired. There is an enclave called “Little Saigon.” I had to fight for Vietnam but I couldn’t fight for my own country. The concept of country has been eradicated by the global communists. The Constitution and American freedom have been voided and nullified. What kind of treason and what kind of traitor does it take to do that? It’s time; “Will the last American out take down the flag?”
P.S. Your state is next.
Excellent. Strike the flag from your country, and write when you find work. My country, occupied by authentic American patriots who revere our beloved country, will wave to you from the dock.
this is to “world traveler” georgie – paulie
There’s a joke in Iowa City, Iowa about “Idaho City, Ohio…”
This guy – Nonini — is from Idaho — though Steve King (of the Council Bluffs, Iowa area) could be one of his pals.
You might want to correct the error.
Because Fear is an awesome tool for the Misogynisic Right…
Because Fear
If it were liberals, the media would call it concern.
Becka, some people are misogynistic and some people are racists. Most of the right wish to exclude both types of individuals from their group but it appears the left will use anyone to promote violence and hatred. We have seen such violence in the street though I wouldn’t say that a normal Democrat would like that even though some of their leaders are calling for such violence and hatred.
In Beckapeak
“Misogynist” = someone insufficiently craven and deferential in the face of a shrew
“Racist” = someone insufficiently craven and deferential in the face of Al Sharpton.
It is Mr. Trump who is calling for violence. And yes, people are concerned about that.
Becka, apparently you are permanently out for lunch. Eric Holder is calling for his followers to kick Republicans. We have seen violence on the college campuses from the left and one can show you the videos and even the names of the people attacked. We have seen the left using mob like tactics to abuse freedom of speech rights against people on the right eating out.
I don’t expect you to actually look around and see what has been happening. Trump hasn’t asked for violence, but you can always try and show us a video(in context) where you believe Trump has done so. I think you will fail.
One day when you actually look around you will find that many of the people you wish to follow aren’t who you think they are. That goes for many of our leaders on both sides. However, if you wish to be a partisan hack go ahead and be one.
“Becka, apparently you are permanently out for lunch. Eric Holder is calling for his followers to kick Republicans. ”
Y’all need to go back beyond Fox news chop-chop tripe and read the full Holder quote. It is anything but what you say here. Dingleberry.
The problem, Becka, is I go beyond the quotes from anyone in the mainstream media and you don’t nor do you seem to have the ability to understand what is being said. Holder is the one that refused to finish the prosecution of the New Black Panthers who were wearing paramilitary uniforms and holding billy clubs intimidating voters at the entrance to the polls. That was not the Black Panther’s first or only offense.
His CORRECTION was clearly an afterthought much later in the speech. He sounds like your type of guy, encouraging violence and meaning it. He has backtracked before including after he said drone strikes against American citizens on US soil are legal.
Becka G – have you not heard the words of Hillary Clinton and Eric Holder? Who do you think is calling for violence? Oh, and then there is Mad Maxine Waters. She is calling for violence, too.
But wait, there were some good people marching in Charlottesville; haven’t you heard?
this is to “ya, he’s an imbecile and probably a traitor to boot, but he keeps ‘those people’ in line” allan / allen
Here goes crazy Mark M. spouting off again. He is the left’s best argument for abortion.
Allan – retro-active abortion. 😉
What a complete jackass. Here’s a politician who wants to execute people for engaging in legal activities that our supreme court essentially ruled as generally a right retained by the patient.
Execute ordinary Americans? Scumbag
Darren, The man is stating what he believes the law should be not what he would do. If he is governor he has to live under the Constitutions of the US and the state. I don’t think he said he “wants to execute people for engaging in legal activities that our supreme court essentially ruled as generally a right retained by the patient.” He doesn’t sound like a lawbreaker based on what Professor Turely said.
Allan
That is the most pathetic blather that has ever been posted on this blog. Best say nothing.
Best to say nothing Issac because you are unable to think. There is a difference in one’s personal belief and one’s action when that belief is against the law.
Some people believe the hands should be cut off of a young person because he stole some bubblegum. Does that mean they would cut off that person’s hands if it were against the law?
You’re usually better than this.
That’s cool of you, Darren. More conservatives should be pro-choice. Conservatives were, in fact, often pro-choice before Evangelicals hi-jacked the Republican party.
The movement to prevent the slaughter we now see was put together by Catholic laymen. Evangelicals joined in shortly thereafter.
And, no, there’s never been much of a ‘conservative’ bloc in favor of the abortion license, just careerist / temporizers of the sort omnipresent in the Republican Party ca. 1975.
You’re right, Tab, Republicans haven’t been cool since the mid 70’s.
I certainly think men should have a say in abortion decisions, half that parasite is theirs. If the father wants an abortion, it must happen or the mother must agree to raise the child without child support from the father. Women seem to think they got pregnant by the immaculate conception when it comes to abortion.
You don’t get the first principle of Feminism (TM):
1. Women have options; men have obligations.
and there’s your Misogynist…;) Quick! MOB! Jump him!!!!!!!!
“Quick! MOB! Jump him!!!!!!!!”
Take note Becka that your first impulse is violent.
lol!!!!!! ok, if you say so…..
“lol!!!!!! ok, if you say so…..”
Yes, I do. You say “Quick! MOB! Jump him!!!!!!!!” and then you LOL.
Paul, should rapists have a say? Some Republicans think so.
Peter Hill – name a Republican who thinks that.
Shouldn’t the caricatures he composes in the space between his ears be proof enough?
Paul, on the state level, especially smaller states, there are a lot of Republicans like the one above. In Wisconsin, for instance, there was a republican push to let rapists have a say.
Everyone has a right to free speech though Peter Hill shill thinks otherwise. That doens’t mean the rapist has a right to effectuale what he believes. You ought to learn a bit more about free speech. You sound like a dictator.
Peter Hill – do you have a couple of cites for that? From WI and with direct quotes not taken out of context.
Peter Shill-Hill, I never saw a Republican in office that stated a convicted Rapist in jail for the rape leading to pregnancy should have a right to stop an abortion. He might be be permitted free speech but perhaps you can tell us where a Republican acted in that fashion. I want to remove him from my Christmas card list.
In the smaller red states, Allen. I would cut & paste a link but I’m not at my desk today.
Let’s have names and times not the typical BS you purvey.
Shut up, you old fart. I’m sick and tired of your stupid insults.
Peter, instead of getting bent out of shape why don’t you hold off saying things unless you have the proof to back them up. That is the problem you created for yourself. At every step of the way you make crazy statements and then can’t back them up. You paint with a broad brush so a lot of people feel the way I do. Without the names and times all you are doing is purveying your typical BS.
Paul C. I totally agree. There is nothing sadder than a woman having an abortion and having it against the wishes of the child’s father. That is the ultimate act of selfishness!
Is it worse than a woman being coerced to carry a baby to term, whether she can afford to care for it or not?
Let’s us be clear….you have NO RIGHT to declare selfish, another persons actions without having all the facts. You have not learned responsibility for your words.
Mr. Nonini’s statement seems no more conflicted to me than those who say they are staunchly against the death penalty, while at the same time have no problem with the killing of the unborn.
Cindy, we know how passionate you are in opposition to abortion. What should be the criminal penalty for doctors and women? And when single mothers are prosecuted, should their children go to foster homes while Mom serves prison time?
pH…………..you know nothing about my passion, you jackanapes.
Sorry to be rude, but those who do not believe that people, and yes even women!, should be held accountable for their own actions, are THE problem.
Cindy, your answer here is garbled at best; on purpose, I believe.
pH…………..Alas! You’ve caught me. I am, indeed, elusive film icon, Greta Garbled.
Actually Cindy was quite clear. Your type is the problem. ” even women!, should be held accountable for their own actions, are THE problem.”
Peter Hill – Cindy Bragg’s response to you makes perfect sense.
Thank you, Paul C.
Excellent statement Cindy.
Thank you, Allan.
A bit too extreme but then in Iowa their seems to be only extremes. I hope it’s campaign rhetoric aimed at the locals.
I’m sticking with the moderate centrist and Constitutional rules alkready in effect.
Women (and hopefully husbands) choice viability then fetus becomes child awaiting birth and is protected as a citizen of the country. EXCEPT for the all importamnt cases of rape, incest, and other medical conditions meaning real Doctors not sociologists looking to fit someone in a prom dress.
Answers seem to always be found in the wise and very valid writings of the founders so they exclude the other extreme of slicing and dicing the brain as the head tries to emerge.
Now lets get back to important issues like the economy and the fight of
Constitutionalists versus Socialists and Independence versus euro serfdom.
The use of intelligent people of the readily available methods of birth control takes effect before egg meets sperm. Solves the whole problem.
Which is why birth control has to be easily available to everyone and rape must be severely puished.
Samantha, birth control is readily available.
Not everyone has insurance, unfortunately.
You don’t need insurance to buy condoms or bc pills.
TIN – you can get rubbers in the bathroom of the gas station.
TIN, not everyone has insurance to buy eggs either but they do. Alot of birth control pills are very inexpensive. Do you realize that when things of this nature are covered insurance premiums increase tremendously. Just the administrative costs for the insurer to pay for birth control pills make those pills much more expensive and in the process reduce the disposable income of hard working families.
The unintended consequences of what you are suggesting are very damaging to most middle class people that work. The marginal cost of anything is far below what the insurer actually pays. That is why it is not infrequent for the insurer to pay double for something the patient could have gotten at half the price yet all that additional cost is tacked on to their insurance policy.
The above was from Allan. The program deleted my name again.
Allan, So long as insurance pays for Viagra, etc., it should also pay for birth control devices and medications. And since some of those folks posting here think that their particular religious views should be forced on others, I would point out that under Catholicism, the only legitimate reason for having sex is procreation. So if someone is past child-bearing age, or doesn’t want more children, then he/she has no business having sex at all.
” So long as insurance pays for…”
Why do you look at things in such a fashion? Why bother to create a war between the sexes? Why bother bringing religion into the discussion? Why can’t one deal with the situation as a whole? I don’t think insurance should pay for either because all it does is increase premiums for the same people that are now getting their medication through their insurance. It’s a lose lose game. You are losing sight of what the real discussuion should be about.
Insurance exists to pay for catastrophic loss or where the price is so high people can’t afford it unless it is pooled. When insurance is used in the other fashion count on every group of insured paying far more for the insurance than what the insurance offers. This is the basic economics behind insurance. The money to pay for claims comes directly from those paying the premium and the premiums due to a multiplicity of factors likely cost a minimum of 30% more than would otherwise be paid.
” Just the administrative costs for the insurer to pay for birth control pills make those pills much more expensive and in the process reduce the disposable income of hard working families.”
Administrative costs?
It is still cheaper than an abortion, a botched abortion, the mental care of a traumatized woman, the care over a lifetime of an unwanted,abused and perhaps physically needy child….
The economic argument is a shill. Insurance pays for erections and not for the result of them, or the prevention of that result. It is a non argument.
Yes, administrative costs and other things. You don’t seem to understand what you are comparing and the mathematics behind it. I could explain it to you in detail but I would have to know the extent of knowledge you are lacking.
But think, despite the availability of all sorts of birth control to various individuals, those same individuals still get pregnant and have abortions. In order to prove your case you have to figure out the number of people that had no ability to get the pill or the comdom that would then cause a pregnancy that was to be aborted. On the other side of the equation one has to assume the extra costs of the pill are born by society and paid by over 300 million people. Whatever increased average cost is noted for one has to be multiplied by 300 million+ Then you have to add in the unintended consequences and human nature which causes people to become even more irresponsible and leads to forgetfulness and pregnancy even when contraception is readily available. This is a simplistic answer and only touches on some of the various factors involved.
By the way Becka, insurance need not cover Viagra or any drug of that nature. Insurance substantially increases global costs and that money is paid by society whether the insurer is private or governmental. The triad in healthcare economics is cost, access and quality. In a fixed system the increase of one leg of the triad means a decrease in at least one of the other two parts of the triad.
No Allan, it is not. Nor is sex education. It is very much an economic equation and where ther is birth control, and sex education, there are fewer abortions.
But why, given the quick come-back of birthcontrol, why do people support the defunding of the Agencies that DELIVER the sex education and birth control? That actual ability to get what is needed to the people who need it has been lost…
“No Allan, it is not.”
Tell me Becka why you think what you said is true? “birth control is readily available.”
“It is very much an economic equation ”
Can you provide that economic equation? Not everything that seems logical turns out to work the way one believes it will. That is why scientists utilize experiments and studies to prove what they say.
“defunding of the Agencies that DELIVER the sex education ”
I don’t know of many that are looking to defund agencies whose mission is to provide well rounded sex education. Perhaps those agencies you are thinking about provide than just education and perhaps their education is limited to only a certain perspective..
So sorry for your incomprehension. Hiding behind the make-believe bodies of imaginary children doesn’t change the character of birth control. Merely because you have some sort of superstitious nonsense permeating your head doesn’t mean everyone else has to. Yes, we know you’re a bible-thumping wackjob; just accept the “accolades” and move on. There’s no need or requirement that others partake in your particular version of superstition.
this is to “but the bible says not to be promiscuous, doesn’t it?” cindie
” Nonini decided to put himself on the farthest possible extreme in declaring that “There should be no abortion and anyone who has an abortion should pay.” When asked if that would include the death penalty, Nonini nodded in agreement and later confirmed the position in the call with The Associated Press.”
The man is a politician. I appreciate and respect his honesty which makes one believe that his word is his bond. That is a trait seldom found in politicians. We have many politicians whose hide many of their views and actions (racism,thievery) which for a state governor will have a deletarious affect on the population. We are always choosing people who in part agree and in part disagree with our own views. We should be careful to focus on the entire man and how he is bound by the law of the land.
.
The same conservative religious ideology that would see a woman’s life severely negatively impacted by taking a pregnancy to term and giving the child up for adoption is responsible for a large part of the problem. The same conservative religious ideology maintains a forced ignorance of basic sexual drives which result in many of the abortions and ruined lives. The problem is multifaceted but by far the largest facet is the hypocrisy of the extreme conservative religious that mindlessly create an environment of non acceptance of basic human mistakes.
The more enlightened and advanced approach would be to work from both ends. Reduce and remove the stigma of sexual drives. Educate the youth on preventative measures. Make sex education, birth control, and counseling available at no cost to all. The issue of how advanced a fetus can be before it cannot be aborted would be closer to moot if a woman could safely and without reproach get an abortion immediately upon finding out that she is pregnant. Many unwanted pregnancies would never occur if young women and men had unfettered access to birth control.
In the more advanced countries when a mother is introduced to her daughter’s first boyfriend, she makes an appointment with the doctor for birth control education and measures. There is no sin, no blame, only an acceptance of nature’s ways.
So the first move is to get rid of conservative religious politicians.
Awesome, let’s remove all responsibility or consequences. Let’s make sure our daughters give it up to the first idiot boy they meet. Let’s make that boy not have to work or commit to anything.
Isaac with another boring, “more advanced countries…..”
Or, let’s talk openly and honestly about sex, educate the youth, make available birth control, health care information regarding STDs, and most of all, teach our children that sex is ultimately there for procreation and procreation is not something to be messed with until one is at an age able to bear responsibility, and certainly not without being completely educated and protected. Let’s teach our children that sex between two people that love each other is fantastic and worthwhile, and should be protected by not having it interrupted by an unwanted pregnancy. Let’s teach our children our values without cloistering them in such a way that they will seek pleasure ignorantly. Have the talk but have a listen as well.
‘More advanced countries’, aren’t devoid of these problems; they are simply more socially advanced when dealing with them and are further up the socially evolutionary curve. Take a peak behind you Jim at the Muslim countries to see where we were a long time ago, Scarlet Letter, Women of Ill Repute, etc. The guy was always a Rapscallion or a Rogue but never that negative a part of the old ‘Rockwell American Family’.
As far as the ‘boring more advanced country’ argument you bring; and that seems to be all you bring, essentially this is the argument for looking backwards, confusing it perhaps with making America great again, but moving backwards, nevertheless.
There is a moral implication when teaching young minds about all the things related to sex. The question is how much of that is a parental responsibility and how much a government responsibility. We have to take note that our teachers do not always recognize where their personal morals need to stop. We also have to recognize that it is the family unit that makes communities strong and breaking up that family unit injures society. Finally the morals of local communities count as well.
Allan
Whether or not parents or the government should be responsible is nothing more than an argument to do nothing, or in other words, no government all parents. That the government mandates that a child must go to school for so many years and that education be managed by the government illustrates the reality that education cannot be left up to parents alone. When sex education becomes something that can result in social demands it merits attention by the government. The one thing that has been proven again and again in all societies is that left unaddressed issues become greater problems.
If the people through government are to have a say regarding abortion, health care, etc then the government has a place at the table. More than a place, the government has a responsibility. The parents have a responsibility and can cloister their children if they have the finances to home school and live apart from social services. However, the average kid growing up needs the advice and nurturing of its parents but more than this the guarantees of its society. The government has a responsibility to educate children regarding sex, a responsibility to provide health care regarding sex, etc.
“no government all parents”
Yes. Your solution already involves the govt. stepping in. There used to be shame in being pregnant at 16 not a TV show deal. Used to be the families problem as it should be. Unborn babies shouldn’t be being killed and I shouldn’t have to support those born. This puts the pressure back on the seriousness of having sex. You promote stripping that all away and just giving these parents and adolescents an easy out. Choices have consequences and it’s time for society to put the pressure back on. Making little Suzie feel ok about herself by killing the unborn is not a solution.
And here’s a news flash, they have been teaching sex ed in our “backwards” country for decades so stop claiming school is like Sunday school.
We have now heard from the boring and irrelevant socialist extremists programmers with the WORD for THE DAY to The Collective.
Nothing here including nothing human. Ad Machina.
Excellent. At least you’re honest. You’re still pissed off that you couldn’t get the time of day from the pretty girls. So sorry for your loss; it was really, really, a blast.
this is to “lonesome jimmie”
ISSUE VALIDATES OPPOSITION TO KAVANAUGH
If one takes literally the rhetoric used by anti-abortion activists, then abortion ‘is’ murder and should be treated as such. Consequently less sophisticated Republicans make radical comments like this state senator that have to be walked back.
This reveals a much larger issue that Republicans refuse to address: “What should be the criminal penalty for abortion if Roe Vs Wade is overturned?” This issue was, in fact, on the minds of liberals who opposed Judge Kavanaugh. If abortion were outlawed nationally there would have to be criminal penalties for abortion.
Republicans and Evangelicals have never wanted to discuss criminal penalties for abortion because they know such a discussion would totally, totally alienate the general public. So instead the issue remains an elephant in the room that Republicans refuse to acknowledge.
“….has triggered a firestorm after saying that…”
that’s what drives America today: amygdala – emotion, rage, anger, etc.
Better to place our amygdala in check, self-regulate and use our frontal cortex instead of full throttle dopamine drive culture. At this rate an implosion will solve our nation’s problem and the few who are fit will survive.
Thought experiment: In 10 years, reproductive biotech has developed to the point where no girl or woman becomes involuntarily pregnant. The anti-abortion movement has achieved its long-stated goal — there aren’t any more abortions being done. Women are happy to have privacy and power over their reproductive lives.
Do you think the fervent anti-abortion movement would be satisfied? Are they not guilty of misstatement of grievance? Is their deeper agenda something they are leaving unstated?
Is it a control-freak impulse, where the goal-posts move, and there’s a rolling grievance to replace any that get satisfied? How can you do political problem-solving with people who mostly seek control over other people’s lives?
“Do you think the fervent anti-abortion movement would be satisfied?”
Yes I would and that would be great. The killing of humans would have stopped.
Now, you do muddy the waters a bit by bringing up an entirely different issue. “Is sex without repercussions a good thing”? This for sure can be debated and one can make a pretty good argument that the advent of the pill and its usage has been the decline of the American family. It effects both sides of the coin. Women “give” it up easier since there is no side effect and men do not commit or work as hard at a “getting it” because the pool is bigger and there is also still no side effect. This all has an effect on the family and we have seen that over the decades. Boys are no longer men at 18. There are many reasons for this but this is one of the contributors.
Jim22
One could argue that the advent of the pill was the primary cause for the decline of the ‘American’ family, but only if one were a conservative religious backward type. One could also argue that keeping sex as a taboo subject accessed by youth as an expression of rebellion, or simply engaged in, in ignorance, ignorance foisted upon a society by religiously conservative morons has as much, if not more, to do with the dissolution of the ‘Rockwell American’ family. The ‘American’ family has been evolving as long as America has existed. Women getting the vote, entering the workforce, and soon to be achieving equal status in that workforce can all be seen, by the religious conservative end, as destroying the ‘American’ family. The debasement and destruction of women’s lives when they strayed from the ‘norms’ is slowly being replaced by equality between the sexes. The US is slow to advance socially. If you take a look at more socially advanced nations you will find strong family units with both partners working equally, as well as taking care of the children. In Scandinavian countries men receive paid family leave to care for children so women can go back to work earlier. That the US is advancing socially is a fact and can be seen by remembering life here fifty years ago. Women subjected to a lifetime of the role of ‘homebody’ whether they like it or not, is not an attribute of any family that should be retained.
Isaac-
Great insightful comments as usual. You are planting seeds. Some folks commenting here are bound to learn from your contributions. Others obviously lack the capacity to learn.
Oh yeah, real insightful. All he does is name call and think it’s an argument. Oh, and America is less developed as always.
He never once thinks that being a nurturing mother is worth anything. My mom was an RN and left the field to raise her eight kids. It is the greatest gift she could have ever given us. I would love for her to still be alive and have isaac tell her she was just a ‘homebody’. My mom didn’t take my five sisters to the doctor so that they could whore themselves out to whoever they dated. And guess what, they didn’t get pregnant. Isaacs insight is that we are just all to stupid to take care of ourselves and we can not deal with our responsibilities.
He has no argument against the pill cheapening sex thus hurting the family. Again, just name calling.
I would want Mr. Turley to explain this in relation to laws that hold that a double homicide has been committed when a pregnant woman and her unborn fetus are concurrently murdered by someone? Is that not a clear indication that the life of the fetus has legal protection?
See Prof. Turley’s post on Kuwait. What’s wrong is what viscerally bothers his neighbors or other faculty members. The rest is footnotes.
No. If the mother wants to carry the fetus to term, then it has legal protection. If not, no. You’ve failed to factor in the choice of the mother in determining the state’s interest in protecting the fetus. Adult freedom and choice is a conservative value – at the very least couldn’t we acknowledge this, and admit to a clash within conservative values?
If not, no. You’ve failed to factor in the choice of the mother in determining the state’s interest in protecting the fetus. Adult freedom and choice is a conservative value
I’m not granted the choice to off the low-watt liberal sock-puppets who post here, even though their contribution to civic life is less than zero. There’s a reason for that: in a just society, no one’s freedom to go on living is properly at the discretion of another.
Tabarrok routinely denigrates the lives of the others on these forums yet does not bat an eye in his arguments to the contrary.
This is why our nation is so mucked up: lack of intellectual rigor and introspection
1. If anyone’s curious, Thorsen lies about me.
2. If I were looking for ‘intellectual rigor’ or ‘introspection’, the last place I would find it is in the ‘thoughts’ of the partisan Democrats who post here. Maybe in some other nest of partisan Democrats you could find it..
Alma: Not necessarily. These statutes require that the fetus be viable, e.g., capable of living independently outside the womb. So murdering a woman who is, for example, 8 months pregnant could be prosecuted as a double homicide; murdering a women who is 4 months pregnant would be a single homicide.
Please show me an example of a 2 year old that is capable of living independently outside the womb. One could argue that the elderly are not independent either. Should we off them as well?
the argument of viability is a farce. If viability were the argument, then all hospitals would close their doors b/c to need their services means you are not viable, e.g. Trauma Centers, Operating Rooms, Intensive Care Units, Burn Units, etc
A baby starts at conception. Sonograms show this. Only those who denigrate life believe others like Americans. Which is why this country is a mess b/c we do not value human life, e.g. Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton, NY Times, National Review, etc, all denigrate human life.
You are correct on the viability statement with conception. People though pay for hospital service through their own viability but I get your point.
This is a false, manufactured “fact” to support an argument. At fertilization, the blast only has a 50-65% chance of surviving the first 48 hours. I wouldn’t call that “viability”. Implantation in the womb is the juncture where the genetic casualties have mostly been weeded out.
So, there are some 30,000 “babies” who are dying prematurely every day in the Fallopian tube, and yet we hear not the slightest concern for these lost souls. No research budget to determine if any of them might be saved. No sadness at their loss. No “Why aren’t we doing something about it?”
This is the “tell” that ardent right-to-life folks don’t really “believe” (in a meaningful way that shapes their behavior) that a baby begins at conception.
Those folks just ignore early spontaneous miscarriage…they pretend their way out of reality.
Rather, it’s thrown out as a talking point of of the medically ignorant.
No clue why you fancy your last 3 paragraphs make any sense at all.
pbinca – pro-life people do not ignore any of those problems, but there is not much we can do since it is impossible to know when the fertilization takes place, if it is done naturally. See Woody Allen’s great film All the Things you wanted to know About Sex to learn to mechanics of natural fertilization.
Paul, those who argue about unsuccessful fertilization as proof of abortion being acceptable disregard the scientific facts of our tissues, organs and billions of cells all continually undergoing apoptosis…cell suicide. Our bodies are intricately made to promote life and end it (apoptosis) as genetically programmed on a minute by minute basis. Most times it is right but sometimes it is not (genetic error, biochemical mismatch errors, etc). You never hear abortionists celebrate cancer (rapidly dividing unregulated cell growth) but there you go. Science really helps in these arguments…all of it
Here are more beautiful images of the evolving life within a womb at week 5 post-conception and following weeks
https://youtu.be/1X6kZdVBLkE
More wackjobbery. see above comment. So sorry for your delusional state.
this is to I really am a girl “nancy”
Thorsen:
“A baby starts at conception. Sonograms show this. Only those who denigrate life believe others like Americans.”
********************************************
So to you an acorn is an oak tree and a zygote is a person. Science much?
mespo – no acorn, no oak tree. 😉
Paul, have you seen mespo’s acorn?
He hasnt either in decades 😘
Herran – all I know about mespo is his writing on here and his real name. Can I take it from your remark that you do know him and are trying to fat shame him? I thought liberals had stopped bullying people by using body shaming.
Paul:
I’m perfectly happy in my own skin. Hell, I published the picture he loves to use. Herran is just a mean intellect with a mean disposition. He’s proof positive my arguments can’t be rebutted by the likes of him. Praise comes in many forms but it’s never as sweet or as sincere as the loud wailing of the enemy.
HeRan:
I suspect you are acorn free.
I’ll get you some acorn flooring.
mespo – my flooring is solid. However, thanks for the offer. 😉
That’s my point. 😉
“If it seems a tad conflicted to execute someone in the name of being pro-life …”
***************
Lots of prolife people support the death penalty for heinous crimes like serial murder. There’s no conflict there. One might say being pro-death penalty is putting the value of innocent life above all other values given the penalty for taking it. Noninni merely expands his protections of innocent life to include unborn life. You can disagree with his values or the science of fetal viability (which is ever-changing and elongating) but not his logic. The question of abortion has vexed philosophers and theologians since Aristotle’s time. I wouldn’t pillory this guy for taking a position that mirrored Western society’s considered position for centuries.
OK, but the murder of a child or fully developed adult is heinous in the way it wastes the hundreds of thousands of hours parents and other adults have expended developing this person. An early fetus represents a relatively small expenditure of time and energy, and another pregnancy usually can be started later when better prepared for it — emotionally, financially, socially, and medically.
Mespo: Could you please explain your definition of “innocent” life; in contrast with non-innocent, or guilty life?
TIN:
Mespo: Could you please explain your definition of “innocent” life; in contrast with non-innocent, or guilty life?
**********************
Innocent life is life not tainted by legal and fully appealed convictions for serious crimes like kidnap, rape, murder etc. It’s a pretty big category though we can argue over what “serious crimes” means. To me, it felonies where violence is involved. Luckily, its relatively ill-subscribed.
Non-innocent life is the opposite of innocent life.
Guilty life is subject to many interpretations but can encompass non-innocent life or life for which there is substantial evidence of wrongdoing. “Guilty life” is too big a word to have much meaning here.
“Lots of prolife people support the death penalty for heinous crimes like serial murder. There’s no conflict there”
Nope. You are wrong. If you are a Christian, you would never believe such a lie. If you are conservative, then yes, you would believe such a lie. You regurgitate often on these forums that being conservative is the Way, the Truth and the Life. It is none of that
Saint Pope John Paul II
“The new evangelization calls for followers of Christ who are unconditionally pro-life: who will proclaim, celebrate and serve the Gospel of life in every situation. A sign of hope is the increasing recognition that the dignity of human life must never be taken away, even in the case of someone who has done great evil. Modern society has the means of protecting itself, without definitively denying criminals the chance to reform (cf. Evangelium Vitae, 27). I renew the appeal I made most recently at Christmas for a consensus to end the death penalty, which is both cruel and unnecessary.”
https://w2.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/homilies/1999/documents/hf_jp-ii_hom_19990127_stlouis.html
Correct. We are not capable of making that decision. Oddly, I was pro death penalty until I actually knew of someone personally who got murdered. The person was drowned in a hot tub and the family got first degree murder on the man. What changed my mind was seeing the family members and what they went through and how even after conviction, nothing was was resolved for these people. As painful as it was, they had to come to grips with it on their own and the govt. executing another was not going to fix it for them.
Jim22: I was anti-death penalty until I received a small envelope in the mail from an unknown return address. I thought it was junk and was about to toss it, when the fact that it was handwritten caused me to open it. A thank-you note inside brought something to mind that I had forgotten about….Months earlier, I was entering the post office when an elderly woman stopped me and asked if I would sign a petition. She explained that her teen son had been murdered decades earlier by a career criminal who had received the death penalty, but came up for parol every two years. She was asking for my signature on a petition to the Parole Board to keep him behind bars. The note thanked me for my signature and said the petition had been successful. I was shocked because I realized that the poor old lady would be on the street two years hence, asking complete strangers to sign a petition and explaining the circumstances of her son’s murder to each person, attending the parole board hearing to testify, and then writing a thank you note to each signaturee. It was sad and appalling. She couldn’t move on, and in effect had been given a life sentence herself. If the state had just snuffed the killer, she could try to build some semblance of a normal life. Oh, and then there was the case of the double-murderer who received 7 years for breaking into the home of a retired sea captain and his wife, and killing them in the course of a burglary. He got out of prison and killed a San Francisco police officer.
Seems like an issue with the system. Had the scum been given life without parole, the lady would have been able to move on too. Same for the second example. Please realize although I’m not for killing, I am very much for life terms.
Had the scum been given life without parole,
Once our appellate courts rule capital sentences ‘unconstitutional’, the smart money says the har-de-har public interest bar will begin agitating against ‘life without parole’ while in some states ‘life without parole’ will turn into a term of art meaning something else. They actually (1) don’t care for punishment and (2) don’t care for the notion that ordinary people with their ordinary moral judgments should influence the conduct of the courts and (what’s left of) the penal system.
Jim22 – In CA the prison system is messed up beyond belief. Dangerous criminals are released due to prison over-crowding, and non-violent, property crimes have been all but decriminalized due to lack of police resources. The state could build multiple prisons on barren desert land that is of little value and otherwise unproductive, but the state politicians insist on keeping prisons in urban areas so that prisoners can have relatives visit and have conjugal “rights.” I grew-up in CA but would never live there again. The place is just nuts and family who have never lived anywhere else don’t realize how bad it is.
TIN, that was a reminder never to forget the unintended consequences of an action that are so often forgotten by the left. You needed someone to remind you that the unintended consequences exist and frequently cause harm to those that are innocents. In the Kavanaugh hearings too many forgot about the unintended consequences on male children and the indirect unintended consequences on female children.Too much politics and not enough caring.
Superstition and wackjobbery. i regret to inform you that chain emails aren’t reliable sources of information.
this is to “darn, I thought I really was an heir to a fortune” tinnie
Jim22:
It’s not about the harm done the family of the victim. The offense is a crime against society. The punishment is about deterring future conduct as a primary or secondary deterrent. You’re too micro here.
Life terms solves the problem. Remove them from society.
That was one of the points St Pope John Paul II was making decades ago
JPII was a brilliant philosopher and theologian (2 earned doctorates). It is always amusing to see people who try to assail his writings…
And we get to pay for decades for them.
Again, see the writings of Avery Cardinal Dulles on this issue. The licit quality of capital sentences is Scripturally grounded and antique. Even John Paul did not pretend otherwise, as noted in the 1992 Catechism. The Papal States maintained capital penalties until their dissolution.
Thorsen:
“October 11, 2018 at 10:22 AM
“Lots of prolife people support the death penalty for heinous crimes like serial murder. There’s no conflict there”
Nope. You are wrong. If you are a Christian, you would never believe such a lie. ”
*********************
You don’t have to be Christian to be pro-life is the obvious fallacy you interpose but let’s delve deeper into your own brand of stupid: The Bible is ambivalent on the death penalty, holding it perfectly acceptable some places and decrying its use in others. (Let me know if you need the cites. They are multitudinous). As for the various sects of Christianity, they are likewise split even among their own theologies.Roman Catholics, for example, expressly approve the death penalty as a “last resort” in their catechism, but the American bishops abhor it. The Mormons have no official position and defer to the secular government. The Episcopalians hate it while the Lutherans take no position on the punishment. Evangelicals support it for the most serious crimes. Presbyterians are agin it, but Southern Baptists support “fair and equitable” use of it. Methodists are opposed.
So which “Christians” do you refer to, Thorsen? Maybe the ones that you hear around the house when no one else is there?
Couer d’Alene and Moscow are in Idaho–not Iowa.
I thought as much.
https://www.guttmacher.org/fact-sheet/state-facts-about-abortion-idaho
May 1, 2018 … •There were 5 abortion-providing facilities in Idaho in 2014, and 3 of those were clinics. These numbers represent a 25% increase since 2011 …
Excerpted from the article linked above:
• In 2014, some 1,320 abortions were provided in Idaho, though not all abortions that occurred in Idaho were provided to state residents, as some patients may have traveled from other states; likewise, some individuals from Idaho may have traveled to another state for an abortion. There was a 23% decline in the abortion rate in Idaho between 2011 and 2014, from 5.4 to 4.2 abortions per 1,000 women of reproductive age. Abortions in Idaho represent 0.1% of all abortions in the United States.[7]
Too bad it’s not in Nevada, where they have the death penalty by firing squad. All of you pro-lifers could volunteer to shoot the wench that had an abortion. That’ll show her!
I’m confused, Iowa Republican? What the heck is he doing in Coeur d’Alene? and running on the Idaho ticket?
I know, Iowa, Idaho, what’s the difference.
Sheesh.
Good point.
There are no mountains in Iowa.
: )
https://www.mountainzone.com/mountains/iowa/
Featured Mountains in Iowa County
Mountain Approx. Elevation
Hawkeye Point (State High Point) 1,670 ft (509 m)
Yellow River State Forest Trail 673 ft (205 m)
Brushy Creek Trail 1,086 ft (331 m)
Great Western Trail 856 ft (261 m)
Waubonsie State Park Trail 1,106 ft (337 m)
Nat Geo: “Most geologists classify a mountain as a landform that rises at least 1,000 feet (300 meters) or more above its surrounding area. A mountain range is a series or chain of mountains that are close together. Sep 30, 2018”
I see that most of the “mountains” are “trails.”
Eh, Iowa, Idaho; to East and West coast intellectuals, it doesn’t matter; it’s all “fly over country.”
Again, the teaching contra abortion is antique and straightforward. The ‘teaching’ contra capital sentencing is a shtick that appeared 40 years ago and not something incorporated into the ordinary or extraordinary magisterium.
Capital sentences are used very selectively in prosecutions for intentional homicide. You have 9,000 such homicide cases cleared by law enforcement in a typical year, but fewer than 60 capital sentences carried out in a typical year.
Of course, prosecuting women contracting for abortions along with clinic staff is perfectly proper.
Life begins at conceptions and ends at birth. He’s so pro life!
His position is consistent, in that the pro-life movement is really a pro-birth movement.
Craig: I remember watching a documentary produced by KRON t.v. in San Fran many years ago when I lived in CA. It chronicled the experience of a teen girl, a runaway who was living on the streets. She became pregnant and sought an abortion, as she had no ability to care for herself, much less a baby. She was talked out of the abortion by a “pro-life” group, and promised free delivery services at St. Mary’s Hospital in S.F. The day after the baby was born, mother and infant were released back to the streets. Two weeks later, while the young mother was sleeping in a doorway in the city’s seedy Tenderloin District, the infant froze to death in its mother’s arms. That story always comes to mind when I hear the self-righteous hypocrites blathering about the “sanctity of life.”
It’s called foster care and adoption. Present pretty much everywhere.
get a brain…..
Quit being a sh!tstain.
The young mother was provided with two days of hospitalization to deliver the baby. Nothing else. Mother and child were then dumped on the street. They knew she was homeless and didn’t even put the mother and baby up in a cheap hotel until arrangements could be made for further support. You’re a cold, hateful a-hole and everyone who reads your posts sees you for what you are. Yes, you can dismiss other human experiences out-of-hand with some blithe, one-sentence solution, but the world is more complicated than that, and if you had had real emotional experiences with other people you would know that. So go back to “desperately seeking Susan.” There’s a reason Susan has no interest in you. You’re pathetic and emotionally stunted.
REEEE
TIN,
Hospitals employ social work divisions who undertake discharge planning. Either the nursing staff did not call in the social work division or the division dropped the ball. No clue where the crisis pregnancy counselors were. It’s a reasonable inference that there are granular details missing from your account. (No surprise).
Agreed.