While President Donald Trump has expressed reluctance to confront Saudi Arabia on the murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi and noted that Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman assured him that he was not involved, the CIA has now reached what it considers a clear finding that the Crown Prince ordered the savage murder and then lied to Trump and the world (while having all of his own henchmen arrested).
Given the history of torture and brutality by the Saudi Prince, it was a laughable suggestion that his closest aides would take on such an premeditated murder without his approval. The CIA’s assessment found that the Crown Prince ordered the murder involving a team of 15 Saudi agents in Istanbul. The assessment was based on a wide array of evidence including a phone call from the prince’s brother Khalid bin Salman. Khalid told Khashoggi that he should go to the Saudi consulate in Istanbul to retrieve the documents and gave him assurances that it would be safe to do so.
This would also mean that Khalid later joined his brother in lying to the public about the conspiracy.
There was also a call Maher Mutreb, one of the Crown Prince’s closest security official, who was involved in the murder and called Saud al-Qahtani, a top aide to Mohammed, to informed him that the operation had been completed.
So what now? We have a Crown Prince who murdered a Washington Post columnist and then lied directly to the President and the world — while arranging for his henchmen to be executed. While Trump has been criticized for his expressions of respect and friendship for some of the world’s greatest dictators, this presents an even starker moral dilemma. This morning when confronted with the CIA assessment, Trump again cited the jobs and economic power of Saudi Arabia.
You seem surprised that a man who brags about grabbing women’s genitals lacks the moral fiber to do something about the premeditated murder of an American -based journalist because there’s money to be made by ignoring this crime and shifting blame. Then, there’s the added bonus that he’s looking into trading an exiled Turkish cleric who critized Erdogan for Erdogan’s cooperation in shutting down the investigation.
If there’s one thing that is certain it’s that Trump has no morals whatsoever. He’s dragging America down lower every single day.
Anonymous, what do you grab? Have you ever been in a locker room? Have you ever heard a “fish tale?”
Fun facts:
Bill Clinton raped Juanita Broaddrick and abused multiple other women…before attending events at “Orgy Island.” Hillary Clinton willfully enabled all of Bill’s illicit adventures. Bill and Hillary conducted a global “pay-to-play” scheme while Hillary was in office as Sec. of State, capturing billions of dollars.
“If James Comey had indicted Hillary, James Comey would have convicted Barack Obama.”
– National Review
What is wrong with grabbing a woman’s genitals?
Women grab men’s genitals all the time.
Equal opportunity.
The Israelis did 9/11, they can surely handle this one. I say delegate.
OT?
“Decorated Navy SEAL Is Accused of War Crimes in Iraq”
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/15/us/navy-seal-edward-gallagher-isis.html
Excerpt:
Mr. Stackhouse, the defense lawyer, said the teenager had probably died of the serious injuries he suffered in the airstrike, and that no evidence had been offered showing any stab wounds. As for the photos taken afterward, posing with the body, Mr. Stackhouse said, “these types of pictures are not unique, they’ve been in every Iraq case I’ve ever done.”
Investigators say several SEALs in the platoon spoke to commanders about the episode, but that no action was taken. Some of them reported it to higher leadership in December 2017, and again in April, when a criminal investigation was opened.
In September, when the Navy became aware of what prosecutors said were efforts by the chief to intimidate witnesses, he was arrested and put in pretrial confinement.
In the hearing Thursday, a Navy prosecutor, Chris Czaplak, said the chief had done damage beyond murder.
“Does the public still believe we are the good guys, because Chief Gallagher decided to act like the monster the terrorists accuse us of being?” he said. “He handed ISIS propaganda manna from heaven. His actions are everything ISIS says we are.” -End excerpt
(His “eighth deployment”??? Gee, what could go wrong? Still, let’s wait for the verdict.)
“He faces 14 criminal counts, including murder, aggravated assault, obstructing justice and drug charges tied to alleged pain reliever and anabolic steroid abuse.
“By Nov. 30, Navy Capt. Warren Record, a military judge assigned as the hearing officer, will submit to Naval Special Warfare Group 1′s commodore, Capt. Matthew D. Rosenbloom, his recommendations on which charges — if any — should be lodged against Gallagher.
“Rosenbloom, as the initial convening authority, authorized the initial charges against Gallagher and slapped a gag order on all participants in the legal procedures that controlled how they used evidence and discussed with the public the ongoing probe.
“He will decide whether charges should be dropped, revised, handled non-judicially or heard at a court-martial.”
https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2018/11/15/a-jekyll-and-hyde-portrait-emerges-of-the-seal-accused-of-murdering-an-islamic-state-prisoner/
To me, this issue is fundamentally about our decency to reject this atrocity, to reject the murder and torture of free speech and a fellow human, or to follow the almighty dollar wherever it may lead. I say sever relations with Saudi Arabia and give them a list of things they need to do so that we can work together. Israel, the USA, and all others can make due. If we as a country tolerate these barbarians, lies, and cover-ups , we are complicit. I don’t think the USA stands for that. Do you?
Also with all the lies, diversions, and stink surrounding this disgusting and legacy determining event, i am buoyed that professor turley presents the facts without editorializing, leaving it up to us to discuss the dilemmas.
Matt merliss – this is a lose lose situation. The reporter is not exactly Mister Rogers. And we have ignored a lot more from nation states.
Yes we have Paul. 9/11 for example.
We didn’t ignore 9/11. You concoct fictions and then complain the government wasn’t acting according to your concoctions.
Paul, I already posted a reply to you that won’t show up, but I have a question. How do you feel about SA’s role in 9/11? Is it o.k. w/you that our govt. has done everything in its power to protect SA from its known accountability in that terrorist attack? Families of people killed in 9/11 have tried to get justice from SA and this govt. keeps blocking their access to the truth and to justice.
Is the trade off of cheap oil and jobs and gobs of money to Trump worth their lives? If so, how much money is their life worth? Shall we pick a number, pay it and just move on?
The notion the Saudi government is responsible for 9/11 is a fantasy.
Jill – just like the US, I do not think SA act autonomously. Democrats work independent of the Republicans who work independent of the Independents, etc. The various members of the House of Saud are the same way. They are not in agreement with each other. Some are on our side, some are our sworn enemy.
Michael Avenatti tweet:
Verified account
@MichaelAvenatti
How to be a world leader for freedom according to @realDonaldTrump: If you give the United States jobs and business (and also line my pockets and those of my family), we will permit you to murder and dismember our journalists and then lie about it repeatedly. What happened to us?
7:20 AM – 17 Nov 2018
https://twitter.com/MichaelAvenatti/status/1063814180015226880
(And our “leaders” ought to skip the ceremonial dances/displays which simply make them look ridiculous.)
Some people think that the US-I uses Saudi Arabia to commit atrocities that serve the interests of the US and Israel. Saudis will be blamed albeit nevertheless protected by the US-I — as in 9/11, Al Qaeda, ISIS, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Libya, and Yemen. What would be a better way to commit atrocities while retaining moral authority, and incidentally supporting the US weapons industry?
It is a matter of no moral consequence that this man wrote op-eds for the Washington Post (bar that it indicates the post will take copy from the most dubious characters if it’s in line with The Narrative).
It’s very like the chattering classes to insist people take stances. What do you propose we actually do about this and what are you willing to sacrifice to see that we do that thing? If you haven’t any ideas, maybe you quit telling Messrs. Trump and Pompeo how to do their jobs.
“Obituary: Jamal Khashoggi was a ‘good man and a fine journalist'”
“Prominent journalist Jamal Khashoggi was killed inside the Saudi consulate in Istanbul.”
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/10/profile-jamal-khashoggi-saudi-writer-missing-turkey-181007184026645.html
“As I said above you can have a priest or a leader leading you. You can’t have both.” -mespo727272
So says the black and white thinker.
He’s even repeated it, because he thinks it sounds good. He’s wrong, of course, and I think he knows it.
And let’s not forget that Khashoggi was a legal permanent resident of the U.S.
If you read outside of US newspapers you will see very strong evidence that MBS ordered the hit. The CIA knew about the hit in advance although they now claim they didn’t go through those particular intercepts until after the hit (wink, wink). The CIA had incepts from the embassy and hit squad as well as calls made to the US after the murder. Israel also had intercepts before and after the murder. More evidence is coming out.
No sane person would trust the CIA. However, it is equally insane to ignore the evidence which is available. Evidence is not true or false based on its source. Instead it is true or false based on reality.
As to foreign policy. I see that many commenters here think that breaking off ties w/SA is a bad idea because the US simply must deal w/evil bad men for the sake of jobs and money. (I would argue that this is how many nations see their relation w/the US.) Let’s have some consistency please! We should not be going to war w/any nation over them having an insane, evil leader. Yet USGINC. does precisely this. It picks and chooses which insane and evil leader it will work with and which it will kill.
I will not argue the ethics of this policy as I don’t think it is an ethical policy. But if true for SA, it is true for every other country the US says they are going to war w/for “humanitarian” reasons. Trump and all the “leaders” simply lie when they say the US is going to remove evil dictators to “help” the people of another nation. Clearly, this is untrue and it worries me that so many people in the US seem to believe the US behaves in a humanitarian way in foreign policy. We don’t.
Jill-
Excellent comment.
People want to believe that their government acts consistently when it doesn’t. It cannot because people have varying perspectives and government is a dynamic institution where people change, conditions change, laws change, agreements chage, and priorities constantly change.
No surprises here.
Stamp of approval comes from ONE source.
British Intelligence has been right from the beginning.
THIS SAUDI REGIME IS TOXIC
AND THEY GAMBLED TRUMP WOULDNT CARE
Since taking office Donald Trump keeps winking at dictators as if to say, “I have no moral standards”. Consequently Trump has emboldened dubious leaders throughout the world. In this regard Trump seeks to be the ‘anti-Obama’. Consequently the U.S. is now lowering the bar for acceptable behavior in the global community.
“as if to say, ‘I have no moral standards’ ”
Well, he doesn’t ! The calculation by DJT will be, “How will this affect ME? Will this incident affect hotels I want to build in the Middle East? Will it affect bookings at my properties here or elsewhere? Will it affect my personal relationship with Jared and the Israelis? ”
Aside from that, nothing matters.
Jay S – I have standards, they are low, but I have standards. 🙂 If you set the bar low it is not hard to meet it.
“Given the history of torture and brutality by the Saudi Prince, it was a laughable suggestion that his closest aides would take on such an premeditated murder without his approval.”
Objection. Assumes facts not in evidence and assumes the conclusion sought. History shows lots of conspiracies undertaken without the knowledge of the ruler and by his underlings including security forces. Ask Anwar Sadat or a host of Roman Emperors who relied on the loyalty of the Praetorian Guard to their fatal detriment.
********************
“Khalid told Khashoggi that he should go to the Saudi consulate in Istanbul to retrieve the documents and gave him assurances that it would be safe to do so.
This would also mean that Khalid later joined his brother in lying to the public about the conspiracy.”
Objection. Non-sequitur, it does not follow that because one permitted access to a consulate for a lawful purpose that he “joined his brother” in the conspiracy to commit murder. He may have lied later to protect himself or to avoid embarrassment or for lots of reasons.
***********************
“There was also a call Maher Mutreb, one of the Crown Prince’s closest security official, who was involved in the murder and called Saud al-Qahtani, a top aide to Mohammed, to informed him that the operation had been completed.”
Objection. Vague and meaningless. Informing an associate of the defendant is not the same as informing the defendant. While it implicates Mutreb, there is no proof the Crown Prince was made aware of this. Guilt by association is still taboo in American courts.
The case is pretty thin on facts and long on innuendo. But that’s the WMD-CIA for you.
Come on mespo, none of this is really about Kashoggi’s murder or whether the crown prince is innocent or guilty in the conspiracy. This is merely an opportunity for the anti-Trumpers to once again root against the President. They won’t suggest what this President should do because that would require critical-thinking skills and they might accidentally align with his decision. No, the easiest course of action would be to whine about what he hasn’t done and then whine about what he finally does. If they do that then they maintain their Lefty, anti-Trump bona fides.
Actually, this goes way back. This is about the restricted-vote republic established by the Founders. Modern America exists in complete incoherence and hysteria while China, which doesn’t count anyone’s vote, muddles on into brutal global dominion. While you were distracted the Chinese took over the world.
This foreign policy stuff is so easy. If a bad dude in some foreign country does something bad, well just pull the plug on their country until they punish the bad guy. What could possibly go wrong? I know, I know, that’s a next level question that virtue signalers don’t seem to have the time for.
In my view, we should recall our ambassador and diplomats from Saudi Arabia, and expel all theirs. When advising the Saudi ambassador to leave, it might be helpful to have a bone saw sitting on the table.
The prince has been coached by Trump, ‘Just lie and they’ll get used to it.’
Tell them you were in Peoria having breakfast with a nun.
Why do we care about the homicide of a terrorist backing journalist occurring in a foreign country allegedly orchestrated by the ruler of an allied nation? Saudi is a major supplier of oil and a strategic asset in the Middle East. Why should be compromise our national interests in service to a morality neither shared nor respected there. We can be either the world’s priest or the leader of the free world. We can’t be both.
Agreed! Enough of this proselytizing! Anyone who knows anything about history and American foreign policy understands that there never have been rainbow-farting unicorns!
Jared Kushner must be cashiered like yesterday. Unless Kushner has dirt on Trump, too. Fiddlesticks.
Kushner was reading the President’s Daily Brief at a time when Kushner’s security clearance had been suspended. The names of Saudis said to be disloyal to MBS were listed in one of the PDBs. Kushner made a secret trip to Saudi Arabia to meet with MBS shortly before a fair number of those Saudis whose names had been on the PDB were arrested on “corruption” charges. So MBS has dirt on Kushner. And so does Mike Pompeo and Gina Haspel. So why is Kushner still there at the WH?
Haspel wouldn’t dare water-board Prince Jared. Would she?
Seriously though. They all have dirt on one another. Trump can’t do anything about Kushner because Kushner has dirt on Trump. Trump can’t do anything about MBS because MBS has dirt on Kushner. Pompeo and Haspel can’t do anything about MBS because MBS has dirt on Kushner that Kushner got from reading Trump’s daily brief when he wasn’t cleared to do so and Trump sent Kushner off to meet with MBS to rat-out the list of disloyal Saudis that Kushner wasn’t supposed to read.
So why was our intelligence community compiling lists of Saudis disloyal to MBS in the first place? Oopsie daisy. And who ex-filtrated Jamal Khashoggi from Saudi Arabia just in the nick of time, anyhow? And how did MBS figure out that Khashoggi had been ex-filtrated by . . . “whoever”???
The outrage about Khashoggi’s death is warranted. But it should be directed at the killers, not at an American president trying to balance American foreign policy.
Where is the Pinko outrage about far greater crimes – example, the Chinese treatment of its Muslim minorities?
Pinkos love to fulminate against Trump – fair enough – but then they have no energy left to protest against other, greater issues.
Show some thought rather than displaying TDS.
You lost me at “Pinkos.”
“Show some thought rather than displaying” anti-TDS.
And we should believe the CIA because????
pcs
The Company assured foxes that osama did 9/11 and oswald killed jfk – and wasn’t a cia operative. want more?
bill McWilliams – isn’t the CIA still withholding material in the Kennedy assassination? Again, we should believe them because????
Either 10/26 or 10/28/2017 Trump released I guess most all of the remaining govt docs regarding the JFK hit.
I’ve not read them all, but among the docs was the Surgeon Generals Report on the JFK Johnson/Bush/CIA Hit.
There WAS More Then One Shooter…. AKA for Dumb Azzes, It Was A Conspiracy Theory proven Conspiracy Fact!!!!
AKA, The Throat Wound wasn’t a Trak…sic, it was a Trak, sic, to cover up a Shot from the FRONT!!
AKA @, Too, To, TWO, 2 PH’in Shooters.
So can we all now move on, this gov’t has collapsed & is still collapsing for decades much like the Roman Empire did.
Constantinople Has Falling to the 14 century islamic Pedo type govt & we’re, the USA, is slated to be next.
Because they nailed the Bay of Pigs, Yellow Cake Uranium, The Cuban Missile Crisis and 9/11. That’s why Paulo!
mespo – they correctly predicted the fall of the Shah of Iran and the Berlin Wall. I guess we must believe them. Their track record is without blemish.
“But that’s the WMD-CIA for you.” -mespo727272
Talking out of both sides of his mouth again.
Anonymous:
“Talking out of both sides of his mouth again.”
**************
That high pitched whistling sound that you heard was my point sailing far over your head.
“That high pitched whistling sound that you heard was my point sailing far over your head.” -mespo
No, but it obviously makes you feel better…
No, you always make me laugh!
“Why Do Hyenas Laugh? | Wonderopolis”
https://wonderopolis.org/wonder/why-do-hyenas-laugh
“Instead, a hyena’s “laughter” is actually a form of communication used to convey frustration, excitement, or fear.”
Trumpy probably colluded with Saudi to cover up the murder.
“Rogue killers” could have been his idea, similar to when he defended Putin during his O’Reilly interview, when he said “we’ve got killers, too.”
Passing the blame is a transparent Trumpian tactic.
Trump leader of the free (from morals) world
Martha:
The world in your head is not the world you live in. As I said above you can have a priest or a leader leading you. You can’t have both.
mespo
Pope Impious might have something to say about that.
“As I said above you can have a priest or a leader leading you. You can’t have both.” -mespo727272
So says the black and white thinker.
Anonymous:
Is a non-rebuttal rebuttal really acquiescence? If it was offered in rebuttal you’d think we get a counter example or something besides a non-insult insult.
Smart guy like yourself? You’ll figure it out. Or not.
I got it. You’re a rsnk sentimentalist blubbering your way into a Trump attack.
Are unconstitutional welfare, food stamps, WIC, quotas, forced busing, fair housing, non-discrimination, rent control, utility subsidies,
Obamacare, Medicare, Social Security and affirmative action “moral?”
Is it moral to covet another man’s money?
If a bear eats you in the woods, is he immoral?
Is it moral to take your kids for a Big Mac and immoral to hunt a deer?
Fun Fact:
The American Founders established a restricted-vote republic.
Under the “original intent,” you would have never been allowed to vote your incoherence and hysteria.
Was that “moral?”