President Donald Trump signaled today that he will simply not accept the conclusions of his own CIA which found with confidence that Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman ordered the brutal murder of Washington Post journalist Jamal Khashoggi. If true, it would represent one of the lowest moral moments for this country. Update: Trump just reportedly dismissed the issue by saying “it is what it is.” What it is is murder and the question is what we are.
Trump has repeatedly said that the Crown Prince denied his involvement. However, this is hardly surprising for a murderer. Moreover, the Saudis have repeatedly lied throughout this scandal, including denying for days that Khashoggi died in the Saudi Consulate. They insisted that he was seen leaving when it turned out to be a double flown into the country. More importantly, not just the world at large but our own CIA rejected the denials of the Crown Prince, which are facially absurd on their face.
This was a carefully planned killing with a team sent from Saudi Arabia, including the double and a close security aide to the Crown Prince. Moreover, there is a recording referencing the Crown Prince by the murderers as well as an intercept of a team member calling an aide to Prince Mohammed and saying “tell your boss” that the mission was accomplished. Intercepts also show that Prince Mohammed was trying to find ways to lure Mr. Khashoggi back to Saudi Arabia.
Trump appears to be expressing doubt in the absence of a confession by the Crown Prince or an actual videotape of his ordering the murder. The evidence is overwhelming and this response will be denounced around the world as willful blindness to the heinous act by “great ally” against a member of the press.
The Crown Prince has a long and bloody record, including torturing and killing his opponents. In the meantime, the Crown Prince has engineered the arrest and promised execution of team members. It is a disgusting demonstration of a mass execution designed to protect the Crown Prince. We will now be part of that effort.
It seems that the Crown Prince will join “Carrots” and “Peas” in getting a pass from the President today. The difference is that one of them is likely a murderer.
The writer of this article absurdly states that President Trump’s decision to ignore the CIA’s conclusion “represent[s] one of the lowest moral moments for this country.” Such a statement can only be made by someone with an anti-Trump political agenda, probably leftist, since the writer uses the “I speak from a higher moral authority” propaganda tool, which is inevitably used with flagrant hypocrisy by leftist speakers. The first fact of the matter is that the CIA is simply not trustworthy on such matters and has lied repeatedly to the American public over scores of years. The second fact of the matter is that the CIA itself has committed and sponsored countless murders of its own and has a history of working with criminals to achieve its political objectives.
For the greater good.
Rumor has it that Winston Churchill allowed Coventry to be bombed to protect the secret that the Allies had cracked the Nazis’ top-secret Enigma codes.
George – Your rumor is false. No competent leader would allow his citizens to be bombed. Please see: https://winstonchurchill.org/resources/myths/coventry-what-really-happened/
Whether it’s true or not, what George says was in published and broadcast reports ca. 1978 when the history of the decoding machine was made public.
I know; I know. And comrade Roosevelt wasn’t a full-blown communist and he didn’t know anything about Pearl Harbor beforehand. And Lee Harvey Oswald killed JFK with one bullet which made a u-turn in Gov. Connally and and the Warren Report is true and factual. And Sirhan Sirhan shot RFK behind the ear from the front. And 3,000 confused Architects and Engineers are lying when they say the WTC was a controlled demolition. Shall I go on?
Don’t know about the rest of your list, but the Architects & Engineers were completely mistaken.
The towers fell because the design did not include resistance to impact by a large jet aircraft.
Give ’em a call. Address their next forum. I’m certain you will instantly transform 300 trillion brain cells with your colossal intellect.
_________________________________
Architects and Engineers For 9/11 Truth
https://www.ae911truth.org/
Contact Information
2342 Shattuck Ave., Suite 189 Berkeley, CA 94704
(510) 292-4710
(925) 938-1489
The refereed papers are published in the American Society of Structural Engineers journals. For those without free access there are pdfs on Prof. Bazant’s website.
They know of this but continue to ignore.
Please elaborate on all of your very informative references. Of course, please include all of your medications and the dosage amounts of each. Thanks, I’ll hang up and listen.
this is to “I have the Roswell alien in my deep freezer” georgie – paulie
What a wishy-washy position. Trump is signalling US weakness to the Saudi monarchy.
It will backfire seriously if they attack another journalist.
Did you say, “Weakness?”
_____________________
“If you’ve got them by the b—-, their hearts and minds will follow.”
– Theodore Roosevelt
Well, he could have put anybody and everybody that has connections with the crown prince, on planes and got them out of town and…….Oh, I think that has been done before. Well look at it this way, Don Jr I’m sure will be making a trip there soon and announce a new Trump hotel in the kingdom. Now if we could only find a way for taxpayers to foot Donnie’s bill, all will be well again.
Saudi is a close de facto ally of Israel. They have a common enemy in Iran.
George W. Bush accepted the conclusions of his own CIA when they told him that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, and look at the mess that got him into.
George W. Bush was clueless. The 3,000 Architects and Engineers say that Bush was duped in that the WTC was brought down precisely in “its own footprint” by controlled demolitions effected by the Israelis according to The Unz Review.
A cursory look at video stills will convince anyone with an IQ above idiot grade that the towers did not fall into “footprints”.
As is frequently the case with other Trump controversies, many of the commenters have attempted to make this issue much more complicated than is necessary. A primary goal of Mr. Trump is to leverage his presidency to maintain and enhance valuable financial relationships for the benefit of the Trump family. He has also learned from painful experience that one ought never offend one’s bankers. Hence his warm solicitude for Russian and Saudi leaders so cruelly condemned by other western leaders. I respectfully suggest, however, that “Maybe he did and maybe he didn’t” will not be received as a satisfactory response to the Khashoggi assassination by most sentient persons.
A primary goal of Mr. Trump is to leverage his presidency to maintain and enhance valuable financial relationships for the benefit of the Trump family.
No one’s interested in the issue of your imagination. Go away.
As is frequently the case with other Trump controversies, many of the commenters have attempted to make this issue much more complicated than is necessary.
Then it shouldn’t be much of a challenge for you to provide the uncomplicated response our government should have towards the Khashoggi assassination.
,mike. if you don’t see this as complicated then you’re not crediting history. we have posted enough here today for you to self educate plenty well.
as for Trump wanting to be president to line his own pockets only a fool who never had a pot to pizz in would think something preposterous like that. the Presidency has harmed his ability to make money the easy way. he has taken tons of guff that he didn’t need to suffer before, i think in all sincerity because he is a patriot.
also, i daresay his real estate lenders have probably almost never been saudis or russia. probably the normal lenders for real estate development which anybody can find out on their own if they bother. like, american banks. duh
more fake news from the anti donald crowd
A little screwy Mike. You can do a lot better.
International relations is complicated and complex. The US has ignored 500,000 deaths in Syria and Obama erased his red line and never punished Bashir for killing thousands of Kurds. Iran is a terrorist regime, executing Christians and imprisoning apostates and Hilary and Obama gave them a few billion dollars in cash for a fake deal. Erdogan and the Turks have a horrible human rights record. Every day in the mid-East atrocities occur, with imprisoning of journalists, executions of Christians and not a peep. This is typical reporting meant to put the Trump administration in situation where there is no good answer. And if you aren’t smart enough to see that, avoid reporting on it.
ah ok but the assad regime in point of fact has been a decades long haven for persecuted christians. for example the arabs christians for turkey mostly ended up in syria after the turks abused them. and iran backs assad. iran is not anywhere near as intolerant as the saudis are where christians are concerned. they allow churches to exist for example. so let’s not get started on christians because that never mattered much in the US’ evaluations of what’s happening there.
heck saddam hussein was pretty liberal to christians too, if not the turks. christians have fared a lot worse in Iraq since hussein went away.
Did you say the Saudis killed someone?
________________________________
Another Former Obama Gay-Lover, Donald Young, Assassinated?
By Lee Floyd| December 23rd, 2007|Assassination, Obama body count, Political Corruption
Donald Young’s bullet-ridden body was found in his Chicago apartment in what appeared to be an assassination-style slaying. Norma Jean Young, the 76-year old mother of the late Trinity United Church of Christ choir director Donald Young, has spoken out and declared that persons trying to protect Obama murdered her son at the height of the 2007 Democratic presidential primary to protect Obama from embarrassing revelations about his homosexual relationship with her son.
__________________________________________________________
The Clinton List
1 – James McDougal – Clinton’s convicted Whitewater partner died of an apparent heart attack, while in solitary confinement. He was a key witness in Ken Starr’s investigation.
2 – Mary Mahoney – A former White House intern was murdered July 1997 at a Starbucks Coffee Shop in Georgetown. The murder happened just after she was to go public with her story of sexual harassment in the White House.
3 – Vince Foster – Former white House counselor, and colleague of Hillary Clinton at Little Rock’s Rose Law firm. Died of a gunshot wound to the head, ruled a suicide.
4 – Ron Brown – Secretary of Commerce and former DNC Chairman. Reported to have died by impact in a plane crash. A pathologist close to the investigation reported that there was a hole in the top of Brown’s skull resembling a gunshot wound. At the time of his death Brown was being investigated, and spoke publicly of his willingness to cut a deal with prosecutors.
5 – C. Victor Raiser II and Montgomery Raiser, Major players in the Clinton fund raising organization died in a private plane crash in July 1992.
6 – Paul Tulley – Democratic National Committee Political Director found dead in a hotel room in Little Rock, September 1992… Described by Clinton as a “Dear friend and trusted advisor.”
7- Ed Willey – Clinton fund raiser, found dead November 1993 deep in the woods in VA of a gunshot wound to the head. Ruled a suicide. Ed Willey died on the same day his wife Kathleen Willey claimed Bill Clinton groped her in the oval office in the White House. Ed Willey was involved in several Clinton fundraising events.
8 – Jerry Parks – Head of Clinton’s gubernatorial security team in Little Rock. Gunned down in his car at a deserted intersection outside Little Rock. Park’s son said his father was building a dossier on Clinton. He allegedly threatened to reveal this information. After he died the files were mysteriously removed from his house.
9 – James Bunch – Died from a gunshot suicide. It was reported that he had a “Black Book” of people which contained names of influential people who visited prostitutes in Texas and Arkansas.
10 – James Wilson – Was found dead in May 1993 from an apparent hanging suicide. He was reported to have ties to Whitewater.
11- Kathy Ferguson, ex-wife of Arkansas Trooper Danny Ferguson, was found dead in May 1994, in her living room with a gunshot to her head. It was ruled a suicide even though there were several packed suitcases, as if she were going somewhere. Danny Ferguson was a co-defendant along with Bill Clinton in the Paula Jones lawsuit. Kathy Ferguson was a possible corroborating witness for Paula Jones.
12 – Bill Shelton – Arkansas State Trooper and fiancee of Kathy Ferguson. Critical of the suicide ruling of his fiancee, he was found dead in June, 1994 of a gunshot wound also ruled a suicide at the grave site of his fiancee.
13 – Gandy Baugh – Attorney for Clinton’s friend Dan Lassater, died by jumping out a window of a tall building January, 1994. His client was a convicted drug distributor.
14 – Florence Martin – Accountant & sub-contractor for the CIA, was related to the Barry Seal Mena Airport drug smuggling case. He died of three gunshot wounds.
15 – Suzanne Coleman – Reportedly had an affair with Clinton when he was Arkansas Attorney General. Died of a gunshot wound to the back of the head, ruled a suicide. Was pregnant at the time of her death.
16 – Paula Grober – Clinton’s speech interpreter for the deaf from 1978 until her death December 9, 1992. She died in a one car accident.
17 – Danny Casolaro – Investigative reporter. Investigating Mena Airport and Arkansas Development Finance Authority. He slit his wrists, apparently, in the middle of his investigation.
18 – Paul Wilcher – Attorney investigating corruption at Mena Airport with Casolaro and the 1980 “October Surprise” was found dead on a toilet June 22, 1993 in his Washington DC apartment. Had delivered a report to Janet Reno three weeks before his death
19 – Jon Parnell Walker – Whitewater investigator for Resolution Trust Corp. Jumped to his death from his Arlington, Virginia apartment balcony August15, 1993. He was investigating the Morgan Guarantee scandal.
20 – Barbara Wise – Commerce Department staffer. Worked closely with Ron Brown and John Huang. Cause of death unknown. Died November 29, 1996. Her bruised, nude body was found locked in her office at the Department of Commerce.
21- Charles Meissner – Assistant Secretary of Commerce who gave John Huang special security clearance, died shortly thereafter in a small plane crash.
22 – Dr. Stanley Heard – Chairman of the National Chiropractic Health Care Advisory Committee, died with his attorney Steve Dickson in a small plane crash. Dr. Heard, in addition to serving on Clinton’s advisory council personally treated Clinton’s mother, stepfather and brother.
23 – Barry Seal – Drug running pilot out of Mena, Arkansas, death was no accident.
24 – Johnny Lawhorn Jr. – Mechanic, found a check made out to Bill Clinton in the trunk of a car left at his repair shop. He was found dead after his car had hit a utility pole.
25 – Stanley Huggins – Investigated Madison Guarantee. His death was a purported suicide and his report was never released.
26- Hershell Friday – Attorney and Clinton fund raiser died March 1, 1994 when his plane exploded.
27 – Kevin Ives and Don Henry – Known as “The boys on the track” case. Reports say the boys may have stumbled upon the Mena Arkansas airport drug operation. A controversial case, the initial report of death said, due to falling asleep on railroad tracks. Later reports claim the two boys had been slain before being placed on the tracks. Many linked to the case died before their testimony could come before a Grand Jury.
THE FOLLOWING PERSONS HAD INFORMATION ON THE IVES/HENRY CASE:
28 – Keith Coney – Died when his motorcycle slammed into the back of a truck, July 1988.
29 – Keith McMaskle – Died stabbed 113 times, November 1988
30 – Gregory Collins – Died from a gunshot wound January 1989.
31 – Jeff Rhodes – He was shot, mutilated and found burned in a trash dump in April 1989.
33 – James Milan – Found decapitated. However, the Coroner ruled his death was due to “natural causes.”
34 – Jordan Kettleson – Was found shot to death in the front seat of his pickup truck in June 1990.
35 – Richard Winters – A suspect in the Ives / Henry deaths. He was killed in a set-up robbery July 1989.
THE FOLLOWING CLINTON BODYGUARDS ARE DEAD: 36 – Major William S. Barkley Jr. 37 – Captain Scott J. Reynolds 38 – Sgt. Brian Hanley 39 – Sgt. Tim Sabel 40 – Major General William Robertson 41 – Col. William Densberger 42 – Col. Robert Kelly 43 – Spec. Gary Rhodes 44 – Steve Willis 45 – Robert Williams 46 – Conway LeBleu 47 – Todd McKeehan
48 -World-renowned “space economist” Molly Macauly was brutally murdered in Baltimore park.
49-John Ashe- The former President of the UN General Assembly was awaiting trial on bribery charges when he turned up dead in June, apparently having crushed his own windpipe while lifting weights in his home…
50-Victor Thorn-Prominent CLINTON Critic VICTOR THORN Found Dead Of Apparent Suicide On His Birthday
51-Seth Rich-Still No Clues in Murder of DNC’s Seth Rich, As Conspiracy Theories Thicken
52- Joe Montano-Filipino American activist and aide to Sen. Kaine, dies at 47
53-Shawn Lucas-Death of DNC Lawsuit Processor Shawn Lucas Adds to Seth Rich Conspiracy Theories
54-Seth Rich-Family’s private investigator: There is evidence Seth Rich had contact with WikiLeaks prior to death
55-Klaus Eberwein Found Dead Before Testifying Against Clinton Foundation in HAITI COVERUP
56-Man who sought Clinton’s emails from Russian hackers committed suicide
George, this is just absurd. Did you check any of these names? Did it occur to you that people one, two, and three degrees of separation from the president are just like the rest of us. They get sick, they have accidents, they have mishaps, and they die?
the ives and henry case was promoted by the Wall Street journal as one of the most suspicious of the incidents; supposedly these boys saw the mena arkansas offloading of drugs under clinton’s time; then they decided to kill themselves by laying their heads down on a railroad track– ah, rather hard to believe….., i don’t know about the rest
vince foster death had some very suspicious elements too
vince foster death had some very suspicious elements too
There were four separate investigations of Vincent Foster’s suicide. All came to the same conclusion. His hometown doctor had given him a prescription for anti-depressants. His family back in Arkansas were familiar with his state of mind.
No clue, why Foster consented to work in Washington. He had an agreeably lucrative law partnership in Little Rock. See Gary Aldrich on Foster: reserved and professional, quite unlike the ordinary run of Clinton aides. Other profiles of him stress that he was a conscientious man, fairly anxious about his performance as an attorney, and anxious about his reputation. He’s known HRC in office settings. She was a partner in the Rose firm. By many accounts, she wasn’t much of an earner for the firm and out of town a great deal. He didn’t work for her or in any setting wherein she and her husband set the overall tone. He arrives in Washington and discovers he’s in a sewer and also being attacked in the media. (NB, state troopers on the dignitary protection detail have said, on the record, that HRC in domestic settings is a foul-mouthed bit*h. How much of this aspect of her did Foster ever see prior to November 1992?)
There was an investigation into the JFK assassination too – The Warren Report. It is a classic work of high fiction. Regarding your convoluted obfuscation, evidence is a b—-, isn’t it?
just because the warren report was bad doesn’t mean that every other investigation is bad too. sometimes a cigar is just a cigar
The Warren Report reached a reasonable conclusion, and, it has been more and more evident in the last 50 years, the correct one.
well this story debunks the foster thing, i am not well versed in it,
https://www.weeklystandard.com/byron-york/vince-foster-in-the-park-with-the-gun
suicides are often misreported as accidents, habitually, by families and the press, seeking to avoid shame. so perhaps there’s some justifiable mistrust that goes even when they do say a thing is a suicide and the notion is well supported.
seth rich is a story in itself from many angles
The Rich business actually is puzzling. He was shot in the back during a ‘robbery’ (outside his home at 4:00 in the morning) and nothing was stolen. He lived in an area near a commercial strip, but apparently security cameras picked up nothing the police have discussed publicly.
“vince foster death had some very suspicious elements too”
Kurtz, I just heard some very interesting information I didn’t previously know. This comes from a reputable person who has a lot more to say on the subject. When Foster killed himself the book Blood Trail (fiction) by Michael Sullivan seems to have been on his computer. Foster I believe was involved in the Clinton legal affairs having to do with the primary issue of the book which the Clintons and Foster were involved with. The question is could such guilt lead a man to suicide. The answer is yes. I have a lot more information that makes things even more sickening but I haven’t totally reviewed them so I don’t want to say more.
This is the book to which you’re referring:
https://www.amazon.com/Blood-Trail-Michael-Sullivan/dp/0915463849
The hardcover edition available on Amazon was published in 1998, five years after Foster’s death. It’s conceivable there was an earlier edition, but checking GoogleBooks, I see the copyright date is 1998 as well.
The book has to be 180,000 words long. If he had a floppy disk with the entire text on it in 1993, that would certainly be unusual.
DSS, thanks for your input. What you say sounds right. I should have been smarter and like you checked the dates on a story I just heard. Urban legends build on themselves and I was looking for a proximate cause for the suicide that I believe is true. Of course tainted blood, if he was indeed involved, could be enough to tip a person with conscience over the edge. I had just heard that story which sounds like vivid imaginations pushed a bit to the extreme. Thanks again.
DSS, as you inferred that is obviously not the correct name of the book.
Thank you so much. You’re absolutely correct. I checked. Here’s one I forgot:
“VEROPHARM”
Joseph Rago –
“Wall Street Journal Reporter Asks Russia For “Clinton Information” —-Turns Up DEAD 2 Days Later”
“A Wall Street Journal Editor who was investigating how a Russian
Pharmaceutical firm could have been purchased in 2014 by an American
Pharmaceutical firm while Sanctions against Russia existed against such
business transactions, has been found dead in his New York City
apartment. The crux of the dead journalists investigation was how
then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton influenced the transaction to be
finalized, but only AFTER her husband Bill was paid $500,000 for giving
a speech in Moscow.
The Russia Consulate General’s office in New York City was contacted
by Wall Street Journal reporter/editor Joseph Rago who requested a
Thursday (20 July) in person interview with consular officials regarding
an upcoming article he was preparing on Hillary Clinton and her links
to Russia. Rago failed to attend the meeting and was later discovered
dead in his apartment of as yet “unknown causes” just hours prior to
this meeting occurring.”
http://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/news/world-news/878-wall-street-journal-reporter-asks-russia-for-clinton-information-2-days-later-turns-up-dead
you must know that hal turner is an idiot and a snitch. don’t waste your time with him.
Got it. Turner is an idiot. What is Sarcoidosis? Joseph Rago didn’t know. He just died of it.
Please, PLEASE, continue to post materials just like this. Normal people don’t usually get to see how off the chain you wackjobs have become in your little echo silo of nonsense. All you Pravda Faux News gullibles might want to ensure you’re not caught up in a comedic “bit” as posted below, however. So sorry for your loss.
https://realorsatire.com/thelastlineofdefense-org/
this is to crazy georgie – paulie
There are may reasons to drop Saudi Arabia as an ally. Terrorizing entire countries is worse than assassinating one man. But SA appears to have been following US orders in terrorizing countries whereas the Khashoggi murder was outside of US orders. Is the US going to allow SA to deviate from US orders?
they have never been just following US orders. they have always been an intractable group of belligerent bedouins. and they always will be. its only fools who think they are under any control at all. it’s a perpetual tribal war for them. the desert knows no bounds and neither do their imaginations
the israelis make league with them from time to time like in backing the anti Assad insurrection; and at the same time they fight over different things. the Saudis are the most intractable group of goatherds the world has ever seen
You have to provide examples. The Saudi Kingdom IMO has always been a bad deal but that didn’t stop Obama from bowing to the Saudi King.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WlqW6UCeaY
Trump has taken a completely different position regarding Saudi Arabia and other countries I consider enemies. Trump places America first.
despicable. kind of makes you wonder if he was a muslim like his daddy. i guess he was raised as one by his stepdad too. well, I think Obama is officially a christian, but some things may just be what they call “cultural” more than sectarian. or one might ask: is he just a “morisco?” a false apostate, essentially
well, it’s origins were in overthrowing the Ottoman Empire. I don’t fault the british for that ploy.
The House of Saud has been consequential in the Nejd since the early 19th century. The authority of the Sultan over the more peripheral portions of the Empire was notional. What happened in 1916-23 was that a de facto situation was rendered de jure as well. Saudi Arabia was formed when the House of Saud added the Hijaz to the Nejd, which occurred in 1924 (after the Ottoman Empire had dissolved).
my comment was superficial compared to that, wow. you can pack a lot into a few sentences. thanks
well, it’s origins were in overthrowing the Ottoman Empire. I don’t fault the british for that ploy.
I don’t begrudge the Saudis their “kingdom” but let’s just be realistic about what we can expect from them. mostly that they keep pumping oil and don’t get too interested in promoting mischief that will directly bite America in the ankles. And, one wonders how much they have done and will do that regardless. I wonder.
in Syria, the Saudis promoted a lot of mischief. Assad the brutal dictator of a stable and prosperous country, that ws not making trouble for AMerica, overall; that was overtaken by a food crisis that transformed into a civil war. Which sent a million refugees into Europe which is a disaster for Europe and eventually could be for the US too. And who knows which tribal pooh-bahs from Saudi got their feet wet in it. There are credible stories that saudi money was paying mercenary wages for al nusra and the other alqueda-ish adversaries of Assad– and the proxy war angle against Iran was obvious.
the Vox story about this is confused. It wants to insult Trump and goes overboard. It says that Iran was promoting the civil war. uh, no, actually it was supporting the legitimate government of Assad. but, fake news is only something TRUMP is supposed to say, not the vaunted press.
its always complicated in the Middle east, never serves to paint anybody as some kind of saints. Saints are not to be found there except their bones in the sand lost from reliquaries destroyed by fanatics from centuries ago
” Iran was promoting the civil war. uh, no, actually it was supporting the legitimate government of Assad.”
Iran is the leader of state sponsored terrorism supporting many groups including Hamas and Hezbollah supplying money and weapons so that Israel has around 100,000-150,000 missles pointed at it as we speak. Some of the more sophisticated missiles were made in Iran. Look at Israel on the map and take note of the distances and speeds that the missles can travel. We are talking about seconds to minutes from launch before the missile can hit its target.
Read the Koran and take note that the Islamic religion is both political and religious where the political desires world domination and subjugation of all non believers.
they invaded Lebanon to give Hizb’Allah a bloody nose a few years back and had a hard time of it.
the israelis have nuclear warheads, don’t forget, they are not exactly in danger of being wiped off any maps any time soon. the US destroyed Iraq as a conventional threat and Assad has been greatly weakened by his civil war which obviously suited the Israelis just fine and Saudis too. Egypt is no problem since Sadat. Nor is Jordan.
Lebanon is a varying degree of difficulty for them. Hizb’allah is coordinated with Iran perhaps but I don’t think that Hizb’allah is very coordinated with Hamas. Hamas is different in some respects and should not be equated. I observe that the PRince MBS in question was no supporter of Hamas. Maybe some people even in the West, liberals perhaps such as wrote this article, did not like him for that and want to pressure Israel on the southern front, I don’t know, its too byzantine for me to reckon with confidence
https://newrepublic.com/article/148183/arab-leaders-abandoned-gaza
it’s up to israel to secure its own defense; i believe they have a legitimate government and interest in doing so. the hows of it are up to them. it’s a matter of considerable debate within israel, more so than in America where the matter is fraught with constant propaganda
perhaps you would like the works of insightful scholar Martin Van Creveld, I do
check him out on amazon. decline of the state is a great book, transformation of war another
Too much scatter for me to comment much.
“Hizb’allah is coordinated with Iran perhaps”
“Perhaps”? I think you should look deeper.
“Assad has been greatly weakened by his civil war which obviously suited the Israelis just fine”
I don’t know that what you say is true. Iran’s ambition is to have control from Iran to the Mediterranean Sea. Which is safer for Israel? Syria under Assad or an Iran extended to the Sea?
” coordinated with Hamas”
Hamas is not coordinated with the Palestinian Authority.
Hamas gets rockets and terror support from Iran.
The New Republic is far left and very anti Israeli. I scanned a few sentences that mischaracterized almost everything.
Assad’s government was never legitimate, merely extant.
legitimate in every legal sense actually.
extant is the primary sense in which every sovereign government is legitimate
whether people like it or not or it complies with humanitarian norms is besides the point
Kim Jong Il is the legitimate head of state for the DPRK however bad guy he is
There is no such thing as international law.
My are you confused.
“America First” buffoon. Those who have never learned from history are doomed to repeat it.
this is to “but I’m not really as stupid as the day glo bozo” allan / allen
There is absolutely nothing here but speculation and references to anonymous sources. Got writers block?
Professor Turley is a bright legal scholar and I admire his knowledge of the law. I would think that the law would teach him that acting on speculation could lead to a lot of executions and jail terms for a lot of innocent people. Additionally he should know that foreign policy is based on what is good for America, not knee jerk reactions to speculation.
CIA has factions. What this means is probably that a new faction has rabbis inside CIA and they’re backing a new camel than the Crown Prince. Question is do they drag donald along for a new adventure? If he’s keeping us out of trouble by avoiding this tempest in a teapot, fine
one journalist gets sawed up but where’s the outrage over all the Yemeni civilians pounded into dust by Saudis in their war, on a daily basis? well, they arent “contributors to the Wapo!”
Turley says: President Donald Trump signaled today that he will simply not accept the conclusions of his own CIA
The linked article says: President Donald Trump signaled Tuesday that he will not take strong action against Saudi Arabia or its Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman…
Where did Turley come up with the not accept statement, thin air?
Trump said that “our intelligence agencies continue to assess all information, but it could very well be that the Crown Prince had knowledge of this tragic event — maybe he did and maybe he didn’t!”
“That being said,” Trump continued, “we may never know all of the facts surrounding the murder of Mr. Jamal Khashoggi. In any case, our relationship is with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. They have been a great ally in our very important fight against Iran.”
The CNN article goes on to say: And though sources tell CNN that the CIA has assessed with high confidence that the prince directed Khashoggi’s murder, which was conducted by members of the prince’s inner circle, the fact that they don’t make a final conclusion gives the White House an out.
So for all the armchair foreign policy experts on this blog, take a moment and explain what response should President Trump make that would get your support?
Foreign policy is conducted in the interests of the United States as determined by the President in office.
Do we really need to say anything more than that simple tautology?
Do we really need to say anything more than that simple tautology?
I don’t believe so, but then again I’m not a progressive. I support the constitution and separation of powers.
Excellent. It appears Professor Turley’s ideas of shoot first and then figure out what happened and how foreign policy should be run. Kashoggi wasn’t a good guy and the Saudi’s never were, but neither was Stalin when he was our allie in WW2.
yep that’s about right. well said allan
It’s an irresponsible post that blatantly misrepresents what President Trump actually said. I doubt Turley wrote this. What has been standard fare however is the incessant whining about this President. They are Hem in the parable of Who Move My Cheese? Let them remain in fear.
I don’t know who writes Turley’s columns but it is under his name so I attribute the writing to him. I am disappointed that he obviously has taken an anti Trump position which is reflected in his writing and choice of topics even though sometimes he writes pieces thta support Trump’s legal positions.
I do the same thing; it’s his blog so he’s responsible for the content. I don’t mind people being opposed to some things that President’s do, but no reasonable person capable of thinking critically would oppose everything. That’s where we are now. It’s has become so pathetic that when they cannot find something to complain about, they just make sh!t up.
Haha. Look out that window. Not only have most of the relevant persons who have recently served in both Republican and Democratic Administrations taken an “anti Trump” position, but so have the American voters. American are usually rational if nothing else. So sorry for your loss.
this is to “we 38%ers are getting lonely in here” allen / allan
Excellent. More evidence of the shambles this farce has become. I’ve provided more foreshadowing in a piece from a columnist for the Post. Reminds us of the ever-present ticking which has become the soundtrack for this doomed abomination of an administration. Enjoy!
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/opinions/wp/2018/11/20/the-unraveling-is-just-beginning/?utm_term=.14e502281cf0
Good song. +1
We agree on that!!
i would sooner give a buck to read the homeless newspaper streetwise in chicago than I would to get behind the paywall to read jeff bezos’ wapo propaganda garbage no thanks but
thanks for the “pro tip” nonetheless
I am not sure about all platforms but there are some easy ways of getting rid of the paywall. I didn’t even realize there was one until I checked and low and behold it existed.
“Pompeo handed Riyadh a plan to shield MBS from Khashoggi fallout, says source”
“US secretary of state gave Mohammed bin Salman a roadmap to insulate himself from the scandal, a senior Saudi source tells MEE”
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/saudis-using-pompeos-plan-shield-leadership-khashoggi-fallout-says-source-1684431379
“… said the source, who is familiar with Pompeo’s talks with the Saudi leaders.”
***************
Likely the Arab translator who overheard Pompeo say “your grave is dug,” but translated it as “lie like a rug.” Lost in translation, indeed.
The question isn’t whether or not Trump has low to nonexistent moral qualities but that because he states this openly how does that affect the rest of his act. Trump doesn’t give a sh*t about anything and that seems to invite the respect of some. That some might ponder whether or not Trump gives a sh*t about them or anything. Trump still doesn’t admit his taxes, his unending lying, and all the reset of his wild guy routine. The best use of this lying piece of sh*t is to illustrate the direction from which we should be moving and not toward.
issac:
“The best use of this lying piece of sh*t is to illustrate the direction from which we should be moving and not toward.”
****************
I love foreigners who seem to think the American President is a religious/moral authority like all the Popes before this one claimed to be. He’s neither priest nor our Daddy. He’s the guy we hire for a limited time to run the machinery of government. We look to him to lead not moralize about the “direction we should be moving….” We’ve got enough of that going on to last us forever. We get to choose our direction every four years.
I’d like the President to be an upstanding individual (as far as one can be in public life). Barack Obama, Bill Clinton, Richard Nixon, Lyndon Johnson, John Kennedy, and FD Roosevelt were not. (Woodrow Wilson, Herbert Hoover, and Jimmy Carter were, but did quite a bit of damage for ‘a that).
Your country put Jean Chretien and the Trudeaus – father and son – in office. Piss off.
Where is the outrage for the 18 reporters murdered by the Israeli’s or the numerous “Arkansided” investigating the Clinton Foundation ?
What 18 murdered reporters by Israelis? Maybe 18 terrorists but Israel is known for its restraint. Otherwise when those rockets blasted from occupied schools and hospitals from Gaza those buildings would have been leveled with all the people inside.
There were not 18 murdered, but millions murdered by Zionists over the past 70 years for purposes of ethnic-cleansing.
um, Sam, one can criticize zionism as a social-political movement, one can criticize Israeli policies and actions, but that’s pretty far out, like an exponentially large overcount.
how did we get to the point where people swallow the antizionist propoganda as easily as they did the zionist propaganda? Mostly, these vaunted journalists have been little more than salesman all along, and so people go from one foolish extreme to another
Thanks for the latest round of lies from you. It’s been an education.
For anyone not a mendacious juvenile, the serious estimates are here:
https://necrometrics.com/warstat6.htm
Samantha seems to have lost her marbles. She says whatever she wants based on a brain that obviously isn’t well connected with the facts. This number she quotes is so huge that even those serious folk that are at war with Israel don’t make such claims to the world community. They don’t want to be laughed out of existence.
the israelis are known for its restraint and mostly because they are smart compared to their adversaries who collectively speaking seem dumb as a box of rocks at times
they are also pretty serious about their own survival and maintaining sovereignty in their own little patch of sand on the shores of the Mediterranean; that much anybody can admire
it’s kind of stupid to think that they should just give it all back, but that’s been the policy of most anti-Israeli antagonists. i say to anybody who wants to go overboard on criticizing Israelis: be careful who you listen to, their adversaries are often totally unmoored from reality
I have been critical of them for decades and their lobby in America. but adhere to facts and reason and American interests, I hope I have done. And I hope to God that I haven’t wasted a single iota of time or energy hauling sand for some other groups that are ten times worse!
the same thing can be said of the iranian antagonists. they are not quite the bogeyman that some Israelis paint them out to be– but hell if I would call them likely friends either
part of the problem with Americans is they are always thinking in terms of individualism and tropes of right and wrong so that they are not that good about thinking about “We” instead of just “me” or what is really in American interests based on the facts as they are and not some vague humanitarian nonsense
In this regard, Henry Kissenger, was a master, a genius, a maximally competent diplomat, and so far ahead of other Secretaries of State we have had in America, I would say, we were lucky to have him, and it’s worth pointing out that he is a Jew.
“it’s kind of stupid to think that they should just give it all back, but that’s been the policy of most anti-Israeli antagonists.”
Israel is tiny. It was even smaller in 1948, but that didn’t stop the neighboring nations from attacking Israel in order to drive all Jews into the Sea. Husseini who led the Arab/ Moslem movement during WW2 loved Hitler and loved the idea of exterminating all the Jews. The Jews won and that is not acceptable to Islamists based on the Koran. Islamists are our enemies as well.
The war will go on until the world realizes that victories must be complete. Trump realized that and that is why he moved the embassy to Jerusalem and is reducing aid to the Palestinians that are using the money to teach toddlers to kill Jews.
Kurtz, check out https://clarionproject.org and follow it for awhile.
History is complicated. No Hitler no mass exodus of european jews to the British Mandate. The Reich government encouraged resettlement, if mostly in negative ways.
And if the Arabs failed to see where that would lead, then, they were stupid. But yes, a lot of them have been stupid for a long time.
Not all Arabs are stupid and not all Muslims are enemies. There are many fine arabs and many fine Muslims. But we are not talking about how individauls act but the groups as such. Israelis are smart and have to consider group action and not just what plays in the liberal western media.
The Israelis have a right to their sovereignty and particularity of the Jewish state. I can allow that. Most Arab countries allow it now. Assad was not in any big quarrel with them when the civil war kicked off, he had mostly acquiesced to the Golan occupation for decades. And Israel had a good reason for that occupation, just as they do the occupation of the West Bank: as Kissenger said, the shape of Israel as a barbell, makes the 1947 boundaries “untenable” from a defensive standpoint
There should be a peace process and fairness towards Palestinians and all that. I am totally not a Zionist but I am not an antizionist either. My concerns are first and foremost for America and I have no qualms in saying that as a person of European ancestry my secondary concerns revolve around European countries too.
The socalled “far right” and “populists” in Europe so reviled in the US media have taken a far more conciliatory stance towards Jews in europe and Israel, for many good reasons. The first is that they are not concerned with the middle east, they are concerned with Europe. The second is that Jews are not trying to invade Europe with a million plus refugees from all over the Umma. And thirdly in fact in principle, why does it make sense to argue for a right to ethnostates in Europe, but deny that to Jewish people in Israel? It doesnt. So Marine Le Pen laid down the law on this inside the FN and the antijewish rhetoric of her father was silenced. And other European populist parties have followed suit such as Orban’s in Hungary.
There is also the issue of demographics. The Muslim populations reproduce at very high rates — this varies a little; again, Iran and Syria are modest in their population growths but not the demographic explosions that North African Muslim countries have been; and differential fertility is absolutely a legit issue for native populations considering mass migrations. There and here too. Sorry, you can call that racist folks, but I consider it a necessary consideration
“History is complicated”
Open neo-Nazis fight for the pro-US Ukrainian govt. The late John McCain and other pro-Israel neocons have never complained. McCain even posed for pictures with leaders of their political wing-Svoboda. I’ve never heard of the Israeli govt complaining about them either.
well that’s a fact. pravy sektor. but their concerns relate to elevating their level of ukrainian sovereignty vis a vis the traditional russian overlord next door. so that’s why uncle supported them. that they had swazis and so forth was always not very important to the mass media.
although i recently saw a ridiculous article trying to tie ukrainian rightists to american white guy groups because they all like MMA or some stupid thing. that is pure nonsense. white groups in the USA are not getting diddly from ukraine. or russia for that matter. just scare tactics from outfits like SPLC fetching up donations
” No Hitler no mass exodus of european jews to the British Mandate”
Do not forget that Jews existed all throughout the Middle East and about the same numbers of Jews were thrown out of their homes as the number of “Palestinians” that left the area that became Israel. Those Palestinians left on the request of Hussieni. Who do you think the Palestinians are? There is really no such people. Jews were called Palestinians earlier in history. Palestinians are for the most part Jordanians. I personally have no gripe with Palestinians except that their leaders are teaching their toddlers to kill Jews.
The first step to peace is the recognition of Israel and its right to exist. The second step is to stop dehumanizing Jews so that children are not brought up to kill them.
Jordan’s population has three elements: tribesmen who descend from those who were present there in 1946, descendants of those who arrived from points west in 1948 and again in 1967, and those who migrated there from other Arab countries because there was ready wage work during Jordan’s salad days. The preferred vernacular for the first is the spectrum of Eastern Bedawi dialects, of the second the spectrum of Levantine dialects, and of the third Egyptian Arabic. An indeterminate share of the Arab population of mandatory Palestine were fairly recent migrants from surrounding territories. Edward Said grew up in Egypt and Yassir Arafat spend about 80% of his formative years in Egypt as well, so the borders were porous in both directions.
It is true that in 1947, the Arabophone residents identified with their villages, identified with their lineages, identified themselves as Arabs, and identified themselves as Syrians. It wasn’t until after 1967 that a ‘Palestinian’ self-understanding came into vogue (after 18 years worth of UNRWA doles). In Lebanon, there were a number of competing self-understandings: as Lebanese (favored by Maronites), as Arabs (favored by Sunni Muslims), as members of a given lineage or lineage set (favored by Shi’ite Arabs and Druzes), and as Syrians (most common among the Eastern Orthodox).
Crossroads of trade have a tendency to mix populations up so it becomes very difficult to draw firm conclusions on this subject. If I am correct, these are the words of the leader of the Palestinian Authority Mahmoud Abbas: “Palestinians and Jordanians are one people in two states – Jordan and Palestine. We won’t accept the idea of the transformation of Jordan into a Palestinian homeland.”
The populations of the Sanjak of Acre, the Sanjak of Nablus and the Mutasarrifate of Jerusalem might have summed to around 550,000 or so in 1897, or about 60 persons per square mile. Not really a happening place
Porous borders, you can say that again. The desert doesn’t lend itself well to borders and from the desert geography comes their whole cultural imagination. They conquest aspects of Islam are well suited to their national conformations even before Muhammad came around.
Oh, Allan, come on. They are Arabs from the geographic region long called Palestine. That’s very simple.
They sure think they are a people. They are Arabs from Palestine, a name from long ago, a province of the Roman Empire. They’re not from North Africa or Yemen or Iraq, they’re from Palestine. It used to encompass the current state of Israel, but the current rump state of Palestine does not. Jordan is certainly covering some of that old territory. Syrians are Arabs from Syria. They’re a far flung people.
Were galileeans all Jews? What about Samaritans? Who were the arabs before Muhammed? It says that at Pentecost the Apostles spoke in the tongues of many nations including Arabs. So they were around before that guy. For my part, I don’t place too much value in those hairsplittings. Certainly a lot of Jews emigrated from Europe to Palestine, aka, the place the Turks called Palestine, and then the British mandate of Palestine.
But I have no problem with recognizing Jewish state as established in 1948 as a legitimate sovereign over its territory. The Arabs they threw out from their territory were a lot, I don’t need to reckon the numbers. It’s not my fight. But it’s clearly not a fight the Palestinians can win any time soon, so they should perhaps antagonize the Israelis less .But they are not very smart about such things. Their leaders are very belligerent and yet unsuccessful.
as for the writings of Islam, they’re problematic in some regards, not in others. I think it’s unwise to make an enemy out of all of them.
“Oh, Allan, come on. They are Arabs from the geographic region long called Palestine. That’s very simple.”
Kurtz, I wish I could figure out which statement of mine you are talking about and what you think that statement meant.
As far as this statement: “The Arabs they threw out from their territory were a lot” Go back to recordings and history. The Jews didn’t tell them to leave al Husseini did and they left figuring they would return victorious. But you seem to forget the Jews that lived outslide of what is now Israel. They were thrown out and both population groups were close to equal.
Oh, Allan, come on. They are Arabs from the geographic region long called Palestine.
There is no geographic region ‘long called Palestine’. The British government assembled three Ottoman subprefectures, adjusted the exterior boundaries some, and called the territory ‘Palestine’. The name was in use only from 1920 to 1948. The use of ‘Palestine’ as an identifier was largely confined to the Jewish population at the time. (Palestine Post, Jewish Agency for Palestine, &c).
There were a number of Roman and Byzantine provinces which made use of ‘Palestina’ in their name. The name hadn’t been used in 1,300 years when the British set the Mandate up.
Some of your facts are accurate, but your tribalistic “conclusions” are nonsense. The reality is that the Arab populace affected by the partition had a chance to negotiate a rational settlement leading up to 1947. They chose not to. Rather, they banked on being able to completely eradicate (massacre) the nascent Jewish State in its cradle. They chose wrongly. With the complicity of poor leadership, that same populace has been throwing good money after bad ever since.
this is to “ya know, we coulda made a deal with Hitler, I think” kurtzie
Kook
Palestinians claim such here http://imemc.org/article/68964/
I found the count doubtful; but there was one recent story that seemed credible….
but think about this for a second. Do you think Israelis will hesitate to kill a rock chucker just because he has a press pass? I don’t . Maybe there is something to be learned from them in that respect.
Do reporters think they are a global super-class of privileged? the average joe isn’t so I wonder why they are so vaunted an elite above us.
Do reporters think they are a global super-class of privileged?
They used to be worse than they are. See the media orgy when Frank Reynolds of ABC News died in 1983.
” If true, it would represent one of the lowest moral moments for this country.”
I would ask Professor Turley why he hasn’t noted all the journalists and dissenters imprisoned or killed in China? How about over 70 journalists in Turkey? How about journalists in the Middle East that can only report what the government’s permit them to report? How about the deaths and imprisonment of journalists elsewhere in the world such as North Korea? Apparently we have a lot of low moral moments when the security of our nation becomes primary and not secondary to the ideological thinking process that pops up so frequently.
Maybe a quiet deal is being made so that less deaths occur. If so maybe what you write represents a low moral moment since you are not considering the lives that may be saved.
oh hell they got a million people locked down in Xinjiang for being “Uighers” a turkic muslim tribe that gives the PRC trouble; but the Democrats dont care about that because they are good donors…. however “legal” and “indirect” their lawyers manage the flows!
https://www.publicintegrity.org/2018/06/21/21873/democratic-super-pac-hits-jackpot-chinese-company-stock
May was packed with primary congressional elections, giving political donors and special interests plenty of opportunities to try to influence outcomes.
New filings with the Federal Election Commission, due Wednesday night, shed new light on last month’s campaign money battle — from Democrats cashing in on Chinese corporate stock………….
How about the US treatment of international journalist, Julian Assange?
sure good question sam
Khashoggi was up to war and power plotting up to his eyeballs. he paid the price
Assange has mostly reported on things that should reduce the inclination of people to support wars; so there is little outcry to help him from the American mass media which has never met a war it didn’t like (vietnam I suppose was the sole exception)
What has the US done to him so far? He is wanted elsewhere as well. You have to get your facts straight and try to appear the least bit credible instead of appearing like a kook.
Assange: apparently he’s under indictment for reprinting classified materials, but, indictment is sealed so its not clear. if so, dubious, because, that’s something that is supposed to be legal under the Pentagon papers precedent
that’s about all i can make of it now, waiting for more information
The US government believes Assange committed a crime and he might have. The US government has to prove it. That is the way civil societies function.
the American press totally ignores this massive injustice against Uighurs mostly because why?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DazSCxfUdE
because they want to get into the Chinese market with their companies that’s why?
Jeff bezos owns amazon and also Wapo. Wants to get into CHina market. Dont wait for Bezos rag to say one bad word against the PRC dictatorship.
Why i wondered at first did they give Burma hell over ejected Rohyinga muslims but they don’t mention the far bigger atrocity against Uighurs? Well, then I learned.
Google actually helps China maintain its mass internet censorship regime
Facebook kisses PRC butts but they PRC won’t let them see the light of day.
Zuck keeps on puckering up nonetheless!
Congratulations on your bravery. Trump never fails to go lower
Considering the advise Trump has gotten from the Intelligence community I would not believe them.
Paul:
You dare question the “intelligence” community that gave us the fatefully named confidential source, Curveball, and took us to war on his word about WMDs?
exactly. they have a new camel they’re backing and want to toss this guy overboard. but, as in the case with Mubarak, why should we as Americans think one thug is going to be better than the last one?
https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-arab-spring-made-in-the-usa/5484950
maybe it’s time for the US to quit meddling in all these other third world nations and let them steer their own course?