President Donald Trump shocked many around the world on Thursday by declaring that he believes North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un is innocent of any knowledge of the mistreatment of American Otto Warmbier that led to his death. That statement smacked of willful blindness to the guilt of a man who routinely orders the execution of officials and makes others transcribe copious notes to be sure that he continues to exercise tight control over the country. The comment rekindled memories of Trump saying that he believed Vladimir Putin on Russian meddling in the election and rejected the views of American intelligence on North Korea in favor of Putin’s assurances on that country’s missile program. It also reminded many of Trump’s continued opposition to hold the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia accountable for the murder of a Washington Post journalist in Turkey despite the contrary findings of U.S. intelligence. Update: Warmbier’s parents have issued a scathing rebuke in response to the President’s statement.
Trump said that he discussed the death of Warmbier and said Kim “felt badly about it. He felt very badly. He tells me that he didn’t know about it and I will take him at his word.”
The idea of an American president taking the word of a murderous tyrant like Kim is otherworldly. Yet, Trump did not stop there. He also cleared the top leadership of such knowledge: “I don’t think that the top leadership knew about it. I don’t believe that he (Kim) would have allowed that to happen.”
Why? Kim reportedly killed his own family members in the most savage possible ways. He has starved a nation into utter subsistence living. He has ordering kidnappings, torture and murder. Moreover, since Warmbier is believed to have been in a vegetative state for 14 months, it is preposterous to believe that Kim was unaware of his condition.
Trump’s statement follows a troubling pattern. With Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, Trump has disregarded U.S. intelligence and noted simply that the “crown prince vehemently denies” his involvement.
On North Korean missile development, Trump reportedly disregarded U.S. intelligence findings and told aides “I believe Putin.”
It was a strange contrast for Trump on his return from North Korea. Despite predictions that Trump would accept any deal to maintain his claim of unprecedented success in North Korea, Trump walked away from the deal as a bad one for the United States. It added credibility to his position that was promptly shattered by the perplexing statement on Warmbier. An American student and a U.S. based journalist were killed by two different tyrants who seem to hold more credence with the president than our own intelligence officials.
Here’s an analogy: You’re in important negotiations for your client with counsel. You know that he has just been indicted for beating his wife, and you’re asked – in his presence – whether you can conscientiously negotiate with such an animal. Do you, a) condemn him as a despicable human being and sink the negotiations. b) protest vehemently that the charges are bogus and he is being framed. or c) merely state that he has denied the charges and you will “take him at his word.”? An adult would choose c). A vapid moralizer would care more about his own image than about the client and would choose a).
Good analogy there, debinrye. I bet you practice law.
debinrye
Is JT now of the opinion that supporting DT isn’t a good ticket to ride?
Yes, and of course the US has no obligation or pretense to being a member of civil society, let alone a moral or civil leader in the world. Whether it’s a US citizen returned as a vegetable or a murdered resident, what is important is Ivanka and Don, jr.s “client”.
Only Anon belongs in civil society and his high standards will permit him to live in a destoryed world where millions were killed because a simple deal wasn’t enough for him. First he had to push his oppenents face in the mud so that no deal could be made.
There is and was no deal available and Trump made us look like barbarians – AGAIN – for nothing.. I refer you to the testimony of our intelligence heads – all Trump appointees – who said NK was not giving up their nuclear weapons.
Look like barbarians to who? The Vietnamese Koreans and Chinese, they probably all agree on one thing, that WE are the barbarians. There is no sense in worrying about that one!
Anon:
“Yes, and of course the US has no obligation or pretense to being a member of civil society, let alone a moral or civil leader in the world.”
*********************************
With every syllable of your prose I can hear the violins welling up and then finally the rest of the orchestra reaching a crescendo as you sing the ecstasy of your moral superiority. Vanquish the evil doers! Wear a snow white cape. Preach to the heavens about that which is right and that which is monstrous! We are the civil ones, you cry!! Our virtue is orders of magnitude greater than yours.
It’s almost John Edwards-esque (the Puritan preacher, not the philanderer) who provided one of the best word pictures of the plight and fatet of the evil ones:
“The God that holds you over the Pit of Hell, much as one holds a Spider, or some loathsome In-sect, over the Fire, abhors you, and is dreadfully provoked; his Wrath towards you burns like Fire; he looks upon you as worthy of nothing else, but to be cast into the Fire; he is of purer Eyes than to bear to have you in his Sight; you are ten thousand Times so abominable in his Eyes as the most hate-ful venomous Serpent is in ours. You have offended him infinitely more than ever a stubborn Rebel did his Prince: and yet ‘tis nothing but his Hand that holds you from falling into the Fire every Moment:”
And you come back with the lamentation: “.. Trump made us look like barbarians – AGAIN – for nothing….”
Can’t wait until you go all Old Testament on us:
“Their foot shall slide in due time.”—Deut. 32:35.
mespo………..your inspiring comment causes me to wonder if you ever preached at The Church of What’s Happening Now?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zUPz6Z9KIU
And the Devil made him do it.
LOL mes…….He was hilarious! Of. course he couldn’t perform.his comedy now. Spike Lee would make sure of that.
You know, I shoulda been a preacher.
Uh, don’t look now, Brother Mespo, but you ARE a preacher….and some of us are your flock-around-the-clock! 😇
Cindy:
Well … if that’s true here’s my dogma:
mespo…Hallelujah! No flies on that at all.
Anon, you are one of those that gets yesterdays news from the future’s history books. Some of the experts in the area that harshly criticized Trump for his way of handling Kim are now looking at the situation and saying that they were wrong and that Trump’s way of handling things though unusual seem to function better than the more usual methods.
You speak like an overgrown child.
President Trump can’t cause the nation problems,however minute,just for the satisfaction of venting!
tiresome moralizing. yawn
“An adult would choose c). ”
There are a lot of ‘children’ on this blog.
Demented trolls would be more accurate.
“Demented trolls would be more accurate.”
Acromion, are you talking about yourself to yourself again?
Allan
Anyone ever consdiered Trump may have made the comment, so that Kim would hear it, and perhaps come around to further negotiations? Let’s play devi’s advocate. Let’s say Trump said “I hold Kim directly responsible for Otto’s death.” If you were Kim, hearing that and understanding the full import of what those words meant, would you continue negotiations?
andrew
You might be right. After all, we know he’s a brilliant strategist.
I think “devil’s advocate” is the perfect description for what you and the other Trumpsters are doing here.
The good news is that Mr Trump seems to have found a much better barber. His hair now seems to be a natural color and he has trimmed off the circus side show barker sides and back neckline. He actually looks like a decent normal person now.
“Trumps statement follows a troubling pattern”. I guess you would have felt less troubled if he would have sent him a pallet full of money one late night. Past presidents have not come this close to negotiations with this regime since the end of WWII. As I have said in the past this President will always be attacked no matter what.
The money Obama sent was Iranian money and he actually got a nuclear bomb free Iran out of his deal.
” he actually got a nuclear bomb free Iran out of his deal.”
Don’t everyone laugh together.
Alan, almost all our allies have stood by the deal Obama made with Iran. Apparently you missed that story.
Two weeks ago in Warsaw, Pence was met with deafening silence at a summit to review that deal. Our allies were so dismissive of Trump’s efforts to undo the deal that they sent lower level diplomats.
Petrified Shill: “lavishing praise on Iran thanks to Obama”
Alas, that right wing extemist international dictatorial fascist group Amnesty Intl paints a grim picture of the legacy your Boy Obama left on Iran
🔪⛓🤡
“The authorities heavily suppressed the rights to freedom of expression, association and peaceful assembly, as well as freedom of religion and belief, and imprisoned scores of individuals who voiced dissent. Trials were systematically unfair. Torture and other ill-treatment was widespread and committed with impunity. Floggings, amputations and other cruel punishments were carried out. The authorities endorsed pervasive discrimination and violence based on gender, political opinion, religious belief, ethnicity, disability, sexual orientation and gender identity. Hundreds of people were executed, some in public, and thousands remained on death row. They included people who were under the age of 18 at the time of the crime.”
https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-africa/iran/report-iran/
“almost all our allies have stood by the deal Obama made with Iran. ”
Our allies that permitted WW2 to occur? Our allies that don’t even fulfill their financial obligations to NATO much less the military ones? Peter you lead by consensus and one day will drown in a lake where the average height of the water is 6 inches (this statement may be above your head even though stated before, but so what)
The plan didn’t stop Iran from getting nuclear missiles. The $150Billion provided went into rocket development and production for terrorist groups, development of a nuclear bomb along with a delivery system and a way to keep to keep the population under control.
You are so impressed with pomp and circumstance that you have no idea what is going on around you.
Elsewhere Allen talks about how smart Trump was to not mix up human rights issues with the goal of the meeting, which was nuclear control. Now he wants to switch sides and say Obama and our allies screwed up by not getting missiles and terrorism in the agreement.
Why don’t you take time out and get your story straight?
In the meantime, the great deal cutter can’t cut a deal with anyone, from Mexico to Nancy to Lil’ Kim and the Obama administration ended Iran’s pursuit of nuclear weapons, a fact confirmed by our military and intelligence, Israeli intelligence, and the IAEA which is on the ground in Iran regularly verifying compliance as we post.
Thank you, Anon, I almost wrote that myself. You saved me the trouble.
Yeah, Alan is cool with rogue regimes Trump is buddy-buddy with. But because Trump hates Obama, the Iranian regime is somehow more evil than good old North Korea. ..Talk about cherry-picking..!
In reality, Trump-Kushner business interests are dependent on Saudi investors. And the Saudis consider Iran a mortal enemy.
Iran did not “end its pursuit of nuclear weapons” under Obama’s deal. Reaching out to Iran’s dictator was one of the first things Obama did as president. Obama wrote secret letters to Iran’s Supreme Leader Khamenei even as he called for “Death to America.”
Oh, and here’s one question I’ve never heard an answer to: why did Obama and his White House insist on calling it “ISIL” while everyone else, including the media and the military, called it ISIS? Can you explain that one?
ISIL Islamic state in Levant
ISIS Islamic state in Syria
Levant is broader term than Syria, geographically. It’s probably a more accurate term for the ragtag bunch of nutjobs.
So then, if Obama and his White House called the group “ISIL,” why didn’t everyone follow Obama’s lead and call it ISIL? They didn’t. Everyone else called it ISIS. Why?
Also, during his transition out of office, Obama told Trump that North Korea and the threat of nuclear war was the number one issue. Trump made solving the problem and dealing with North Korea a priority.
What did Obama do in all of his eight years to deal with NK?
Instead, Obama cozied up to Iran’s supreme leader and sent pallets of cash in unmarked planes to Iran in the middle of the night. Oh and ask Congress if Obama bothered to let any lawmakers know what he was doing or where he got the millions in “cash.”
Well, yeah, I don’t worry about Iran too much either. And their human rights record is better than Saudis, but that doesnt rile me up either. All in all, folks should stop complicating every strategic issue with human rights. that’s the smart way to go.
“Elsewhere Allen talks about how smart Trump was to not mix up human rights issues with the goal of the meeting, which was nuclear control. Now he wants to switch sides and say Obama and our allies screwed up by not getting missiles and terrorism in the agreement.”
Take note how Trump has already succeeded in having N. Korea sending missiles over the Japan Sea, stopped their nuclear production, had our Korean soldiers returned that no other President seemed able to do, had otto Wambier returned and other thing and now is working to rid N. Korea of nuclear weapons.
Of course any Iranian deal should have eliminated state sponsored terrorism when if everything worked perfectly at the end of the deal Iran will have nuclear weapons. Our $150Billion went to helping Iran perfect the production of missiles given to Hezbollah and Hamas to be used against the Israeli civilian population, went to nuclear development and a delivery system and went to keeping an opressed people oppressed. Great deal Obama and Europe. Iran gets nuclear weapons and the west supplies part of the money for them. Give the naive ones enough rope and they will hang themselves. Isn’t that what happened before WW2?
“bomb free Iran out of….”
Youre such a stalwart human rights activist it makes these forums weep….as to the suffering you applaud by the people of Iran.
Walter Duranty is that you?
###
https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2017/country-chapters/iran
Despite three years in his office, President Hassan Rouhani has not delivered on his campaign promise of greater respect for civil and political rights. Executions, especially for drug-related offenses, continued at a high rate. As Rouhani faces elections for a second term in May 2017, the hardline factions that dominate the security apparatus and judiciary continued to crackdown on citizens for the legitimate exercise of their rights, in blatant disregard of international and domestic legal standards. Iranian dual nationals and citizens returning from abroad were at particular risk of arrest by intelligence authorities, accused of being “Western agents.”
Executions, Freedom from Torture, and Inhuman Treatment
Despite an initial slowdown in executions in the first months of 2016, authorities had executed at least 203 individuals by October 25. Human rights groups, however, report that the number might be as high as 437, with most executions taking place in the second half of the year. According to government authorities, individuals convicted of drug charges constitute the majority of those executed in the country.
Farce negotiations, the entire point of which was to demonstrate the greatness of Trump. Anyone with any brains can see exactly the reality and nature of the leadership of the world’s #1 gulag, torture, prison-camp, starvation slave state.
“Farce negotiations”
Have you seen evidence of missiles flying over the Sea of Japan? I suggest you go to the dictionary and look up the words:
Negotiations
Farce
Terrible government, murderous to its own people for sure.
But, equally certain, they have nukes and can deliver them.
Ergo, the negotiations are no farce, they are deadly serious, and worthwhile talks.
Acro, please do not be naive and misplace your human rights concerns of the past, over the living, that is to say, over the potential security and wellbeing of those on the Korean peninsula and region who are alive and not dead already.
Of course Trump will take an autocrat at his word. He has to. If Trump doubts the assertions of an autocrat, he invariably opens the door to questions about his own pronouncements. Autocrats must hang together; else they will hang separately….
Yeah, Jeff: He’s such an “autocrat” that you can never hear any criticism of him! LOL!
debinyre,…
That is the first clue of the Trump autocracy and despotism; he has stifled all criticism of him by his control of the media.😏😉😂
Autocrat by inclination will have to suffice.
“him! LOL!”
J.S. the best of SNL
I know that when I’m trying to negotiate an important deal, the best strategy is to insult and embarrass the other side. How about we leave the moralizing to theologians. We live in a dangerous world filled with all kinds of people. It’s best to try and keep on good terms with the crazies especially when they have the demonstrated capacity to take large chunks out of our allies and us. Being a knight errant only pays off in the movies.
Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
moralizers: errand boys, sent by grocery clerks to collect a bill
He’s a LIAR. We all know he’s a liar. He wants to do a deal at ANY COST….so he’s going to lie and lie and lie…to try to get a deal.its really very simple.
We all know everyone’s a liar. The question is whether or not Trump is acting to promote our interests. Isn’t that right, Father Guinness?
I didn’t know that. Or are you lying about that?
Remember that ignorance of human nature the next time your spouse asks you if he/she has gained weight.
Wife: Does this dress make me look fat?
Husband: No, your fat makes you look fat.
That’s when the fight started.
Gabriel Garcia Marquez put it best:
“Los sabios lo saben todo, pero no todo.”
– “Memoria de mis putas tristes”
so there is that to consider
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-YvnuSLKBmM
Memory of my sad whores? sounds interesting, check it out, thanks!
If Trump wanted to do “any deal at any cost”, why did he walk?
Seems like he could just done “any deal at any cost” rather than terminating the talks.
” He wants to do a deal at ANY COST”
If the “ANY COST” is American lives and security he may “lie” to the enemy and may even flatter them but it is obvious he knows how to make a deal. He could even have satisfied the American Press and made a terrible deal like the Iran deal but instead he knew better and like Reagan he walked away.
Trump won’t believe his own intelligence officials but loves Kim jong un and Putin, and any other dictator, there is really something wrong with this moron.
Fishy:
There are multitudinous reasons to be skeptical of our intelligence agencies. “Yellow cake” ring any bells? Bang up job preventing 9-11 despite warning bells everywhere. Not understanding the rise and reach of Isis — another gem of the CIA. And we can go back as far as you want. Read the Church Commission Report and behold the clay feet of out intelligence apparatus.
That you don’t know that says a lot about your naïveté.
Well it’s good to know that Trump alone can fix it. Yellow cake was Lord Cheney’s baby, not intell. Warning bells were ignored by Bush-Cheney. The CIA said the bells and red lights were flashing. Your naivete about recent history and support for Trump has to be questioned. Cheney set up his own intell agency to support his plan, remember?
Fishy:
Well you’re factually wrong. The CIA stood by and let Gen. Powell unwittingly misrepresent Saddam’s capabilities to the UN. We know this because Powell, who is credible, told us so. In 9-11, the CIA provided no specific threat assessment despite knowing radical Muslims were taking flight school classes. They got the threat right, just none of the details. Cheney’s intel were all CIA/DIA. The intel community has a lot to be humble about.
“knowing radical Muslims were taking flight school classes. ”
Mespo, there were a lot of strange incidents performed by those radical Muslims. A friend of mine told me that at a local private airport he was getting ready to take off and another plane wildly cut him off. That plane was flown by Mohamed Atta.
apparently Atta himself had been under surveillance
http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a0100ciaatta&scale=0#a0100ciaatta
9/11 is alice’s rabbit hole. You start down it, gets curioser and curioser. For the sake of relevancy, and sanity, let’s not go too far.
No question our “intelligence” folks were keenly aware.
Allan, an FBI field agent reported his concerns about at least one of the 9-11 terrorists who supposedly wanted to be a pilot, but was uninterested in learning about takeoffs and landings….two fairly important elements of basic skills any normal pilot should be familiar with.
There were, unfortunately, a lot of missed warning signs, a lot of screw-ups leading up to 9-11.
The information and warnings giving to us about the elder Boston Marathon Bomber came from Russia😧;
why the hell do you think they could trust anything they’d have to say?😒
Uh, for these reasons?
List of thwarted Islamist terrorist attacks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_thwarted_Islamist_terrorist_attacks
By your reasoning – and that of the other cult members here – the failings of police departments or the military means we should ignore them and do whatever your dear leader pulls from his a.s.
Not sure what your point is, Anon, if you had one.
The Boston Marathon Bombing, and the lack of effective action after credible intelligence from Russia, was an example of a failure in our intel community.
There is also a long list of thwarted plots, as noted.
There were also some “lucky breaks” when a bomb failed to go off, or when a citizen happened to notice something a bit suspicious and notified authorities.
There was a pretty long list of missed opportunies to prevent the 9-11 terrorist attack; the 9-11 Commission noted not “just one thing”, but multiple failures that combined to leave us wide open for such an attack.
If your comment was advocating something, or there was some statement you were trying to make, it fell short.
Here’s the list of thwarted attacks on the US:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unsuccessful_terrorist_plots_in_the_United_States_post-9/11
My point was made clearly, and I seriously doubt you didn’t get it. Our intelligence agencies – like the police and the military – are not perfect, but they have in fact thwarted numerous terrorism attempts in the US. The implication of your post was that Trump – an ignorant, self serving man of low character – is correct to ignore our intelligence agencies when it suits his purposes, which of course are self promotion and ego stroking.:Perhaps his trip to meet Lil’ Kim would have been more fruitful if the table had been set by the State Dept armed with information from the intelligence agencies, instead of relying on the President to strut and cut on what his intelligence heads had just told Congress two weeks ago was a fruitless attempt to get NK to drop it’s nuclear weapons.
Or perhaps he could have studied the Obama administration’s successful attempt to end nuclear weapons production in Iran. They got their deal, Trump got less from Kim than he got from Nancy and the Mexicans.
The sprawling military & strategic intelligence complex is enormous and they do not speak with one voice. Most likely they don’t even have the faintest clue of what all their own spooks are up to at any given time.
I trust DJT as CIC more, even if he is something of a fibber, more, far more, than I trust those whose occupational specialty is precisely lying itself.
That was not the point of my post.
We both agreed that there are a lot of thwarted plots, and some spectacular failures.
That is in your post(s) and in my post.
We can argue about things we agree on, if that’s what you want to do.
I made and will clarify one or two additional point I made; that there are times when foreign intel, even from an adversary, are more on target than the assessments made by our donestic agencies.
Russia and the U.S. have a common problem and a common interest in cooperating against terrorist
plots and attacks.
Russia may even be more vulnerable to those attacks than the U.S., due to its high profile activity in Syria.
And in some respects, their intel agencies are probably more efficient than ours.
The Saudi government is also a partner in sharing intel in combating terrorism.
That’s been true for more than a decade, when they figured out that they themselves were targets of terrorism attacks.
We can keep repeating the line that “15 of the hijackers were Saudis” as if that directly implicates the Saudi government in the 9-11 attacks, and as if the Saudis are still passive in the area of counter-terrorism against Saudi citizens.
Whether we like those Saudi or Russian governments or not is beside the point when there’s that common area where we can and should cooperate.
I made an additional comment as well about the yellowcake issue, often trumpeted as a complete failure and bogus issue made up as one of the justifications for launching Gulf War II.
It’s a good idea to know how and why and when those yellowcake concerns surfaced, what we got wrong, and how we got it wrong.
Contrary to what some others have stated here, the yellowcake issue was not as clear-cut, as black and white, as some fantasy cooked up and invented by the Bush Administration in 2002 and 2003.
It’s easy to present it that way in a vacuous two sentence remark by somebody pretending to be knowledgeable about the issue.
It’s a different matter to look at the developments as they actually happened, whether it’s the yellowcake issue specifically, Joe Wilson’s belated public “warning”, or the overall WMD issues.
Anyone who thinks that the concern about Saddam and WMDs started with Bush 43 should look at the Snopes link of quotes I attached to another comment here.
Anon:
“Our intelligence agencies – like the police and the military – are not perfect, but they have in fact thwarted numerous terrorism attempts in the US.”
*************************
Given their proven fallibility, why would any sentient being buy their assessments lock, stock and barrel? “Cause they’re “right” some of the time? And why not say so? ‘Cause it hurts their Ivy League sensibilities? Oh, dither!
For a Bushie to bring up yellow cake is irony at its worst. It suited the neocons to cherry-pick the intelligence and ignore Hans B., you are a hypocrite.
Oh and Powell was in on it; so sick of the revisionist BS. He couldn’t be that incompetent though he was a rethuglican where incompetence is a way of life.
I guess some people did not see Gen. Powell’s speech at the U.N. right before the start of Gulf War II.
Or they don’t remember that speech. Or maybe they didn’t understand what Powell was saying.
“Or maybe they didn’t understand what Powell was saying.”
Tom, was Powell speaking Russian?
I’m seeing one or two sentence declarations made here by some who do not have a clue about developments as they actually happened in the run-up to Gulf War II.
When someone who is completely ignorant of those developments repeatedly posts one of two sentence comments devoid of any real content, I can see wht that person would say “this is too easy”.
Of course it’s “easy”, when there is no content, no evidence of any real thought or knowledge, and just a matter of writing one or two sentence bitchy little remarks.
You are a dimwit; start dealing in facts and we can talk. Let me know, I will type slow.
I have no reason to doubt that an ignorant troll who says nothing, does nothing, and knows nothing finds it “too easy”.
For that same troll to talk about “facts” or “substance” must be a lame attempt at humor, given the long history of posting one and two sentence snarky remarks to prove how bitchy she is.
That is the sum total of “YNOT”‘s contributions here on this blog….being an *******, and repeatedly proving that YNOT is in that select category of scumtrolls who have found a home here.
In a “big tent” environment with few restrictions that’s bound to happen, so it’s not unique to this site that a small number of lowlife individuals bring their act to these threads.
When they have nothing else to offer, it’s just “too easy” for them to say nothing and do nothing except make nuisances of themselves.
Often wrong but never in doubt, eh, YNOT? Tyler Drumheller is a name you should learn and try to figure out what WINPAC really is about.
That guy is a full time apologist for Powell; if the swamp gets drained, he will be floating out with the rest of the filth. Funny how these guys all speak out after the damage is done and they don’t want to be held accountable.
Mespo,…
– I think it’s pretty clear that there can be no expectation of a normal exchange/ discussion/ debate with an anonymous troll who obviously has different objectives, unmistakably evident by the content of their posts here.
It’s a very small number of those who comment here, but that small group of trolls is active enough to be able to leave litter on any blog still open to comments.
So it’s not difficult to understand if they say it’s “too easy”…..they don’t need a lot going on upstairs to do what they do, and they repeatedly ( and anonymously) don’t mind proving that they’re not very bright.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/25546334/ns/world_news-mideast_n_africa/t/secret-us-mission-hauls-uranium-iraq/
Saddam had acquired a substantial stockpike of yellowcake from different sources.
I don’t know the percentages he got from Nigeria and other countries.
The suspicions about the sale of Nigerian yellowcake did not come out of thin air.
I’d have to review the details and timing of Wilson’s public criticism of how they used or interpreted the Iraq-Nigerian-yellowcake matter.
I’d also have to review Wilson’s statements when he completed the assignment, and what he reported at that time.
I think he publically blasted the use of the yellowcake issue AFTER Gulf War II was launched, and inspectors were not turning up the quanties of WMD material they expected to find.
These inspectors were not all Americans, nor was the inaccurate intel exclusively American.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/words-of-mass-destruction/
I’d recommend reading the list of statements made about Saddam/ Iraq/ WMD prior to Gulf War II.
Bush 43 “pulled the trigger” and has “ownership” of Gulf II.
He also has ownership of the success of the surge, the benefits of which were later pissed away.
The concerns about Saddam and WMDs were heightened by the late 1990s, as many of the quotes show.
I think the U.N. inspectors were yanked in 1998, due to lack of access and cooperation from the Iraqis.
There already been concerns that Saddam would “cheat and retreat” before 1998.
That phrase might ring a bell for anyone old enough to remember who even casually followed the situation in Iraq.
These concerns were not suddenly “
( screen froze….I posted the mostly finished comment, which I’ll complete)
These concerns were not suddenly cooked up by the Bush Administration after Bush 43 took office in 2001.
Clearly, they got some things wrong, way too many things, about Saddam’s WMD capacity.
That does not mean, however, that the there had not been increasing bipartisan concerns about the WMDs long before Bush took office.
mespo…….and I’ll bet ol’ Pharoah wanted to trade-in his intelligence officers about halfway into what had initially looked like a nice, dry highway through the Red Sea.
Oy geveldt.
Uh, you know that didn’t really happen, right?
Anon, there is a lot your arrogance don’t know. The parting of the Red Sea was not an uncommon natural phenomenon. The Red Sea was low at the time and the winds were strong. The iron on the chariots was very heavy. the bottom of the Sea was very soft.
Thank you, Allan.
An Evangelical would dispute any claim that it didn’t happen. Further, all 22 million animal species made it safely onto the Ark.
Anon……I hate to pull rank, but I have an Old Testament History Degree from Vacation Bible School.
Untopable!
Same people who say Achilles & Odysseus never lived either. You bet Moses was a real dude. Damn straight!
Mr. Kurtz……..you are correct, sir. 👌
Cindy:
Personally, I like the intel guys in Troy who famously told King Priam: “Quick! Before those smelly Greeks come back, let’s get that cool wooden horse in here. We need something to dance around and I think there’s a stereo playing in there somewhere.”
OMG mespo……I am laughing so hard I’m crying. This must be what it felt like on Monday mornings, to sit around the writer’s table for Sid Caesar’s Show of Shows. OT …hubby left phone message for you at.your office a few days ago.
Just a heads up.
Cindy:
Sorry I missed it. Damn deps for three days and four new cases. I’ll check on Monday.
mes…no problem/no hurry, mon ami!
Paraphrase:
“Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the SAT scores that are missing. I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by your own ‘press’.”
NO BENEFIT TO FRIENDING DICTATORS
I dont mind that Trump got no arms deal from Kim Jong Un. No deal is better than a bad one.
But Trump has nothing to gain and everything to lose by feigning a friendship with the likes of Kim. A buddy of that caliber invites penetrating questions regarding human rights abuses.
If a president feels the need to meet a loathsome dictator, they are best-advised not to praise them. An air of cool reserve is probably the best route.
Trump is almost certainly driven by a petulant desire to disregard the advice of US intelligence chiefs and US military strategists simply because they gave it to him rather than taking it from him. And that will probably remain the case at least until such time they all become Trump’s very own, personal intelligence chiefs and Trump’s very own, personal military strategists. Just. Like. Putin. Has.
There does not appear to be any distance between the views of Trump, Pompeo, and the U.S. intel community on North Korea’s nuclear program.
I can’t think of any instances when Trump significantly parted ways with the intelligence community as far as the conclusions of military/ nuclear capacities of other nations.
Trump did initially blow it by announcing an almost immediate full withdrawal of our troops in Syria, and his statement that ISIS was defeated.
He walked both of those statements back, and the initial clumsy statements he made were never acted on in terms of policy.
Tom, I wonder if former White House Chief of Staff John Kelly was the one adult saying ‘no’ to Trump. And is there anyone like that now?
There is an interim chief if staff currently….at least I think he hasn’t been designated as permanent….who appears to have an OK relationship with Trump.
I’ve mentioned before that Pompeo is probably a good fit in a Trump Administration, but it’s not possible at this point to assess the degree of influence he has in shaping and guiding Trump’s actions.
I also noted that with respect to the intel community’s position on North Korean ambitions, activity and capabilities in the nuclear field, there’s no evidence of gap between what the intel people, Trump, and Pompeo.
Petered Out Peter obliviates: “NO BENEFIT TO FRIENDING DICTATORS”
But your friends at the NY Times, WahPutz, Huff Post, New Yorker, Vox, Mother Jones, disagree….
“In the 1930s, as millions were being murdered in Stalin’s terror-famine and Great Purge, Walter Duranty was assuring readers of The New York Times that the Soviet ruler was “giving the Russian people . . . what they really want, namely joint effort, communal effort.” The renowned literary critic Edmund Wilson extolled Stalinist Russia as the “moral light at the top of the world.” Upton Sinclair, who later won a Pulitzer Prize for fiction, vigorously defended the integrity of the “confessions” extracted by the secret police from many of Stalin’s victims: It “seems obvious,” Sinclair wrote, that they would not have “confessed to actions which they had not committed.”
The adulation of left-wing dictators and strongmen by Western intellectuals, journalists, and celebrities didn’t begin with Stalin (in 1921 Duranty had hailed Lenin for his “cool, far-sighted, reasoned sense of realities”), and it certainly didn’t end with him. Mona Charen chronicled the phenomenon in her superb 2003 book “Useful Idiots,” which recalls example after jaw-dropping example of American liberals defending, flattering, and excusing the crimes of one Communist ruler and regime after another. Fidel Castro, Ho Chi Minh, Mao Zedong, the Khmer Rouge, Leonid Brezhnev, Kim Il Sung, the Sandinistas: Over and over the pattern was repeated, from the dawn of the Bolshevik Revolution to the collapse of the Iron Curtain — and beyond.
And the useful idiocy lives on.”
https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2013/03/13/useful-idiots-then-and-now/idhxyLS2pPV1A2ON2WcrsJ/story.html
and there is more….but we knew that
“When Venezuela’s America-hating caudillo Hugo Chavez died last week, Human Rights Watch summarized his legacy starkly: “a dramatic concentration of power and open disregard for basic human-rights guarantees.” Over his 14-year rule, Chavez succeeded in rewriting the constitution to abolish the Venezuelan Senate and repeal the one-term limit for presidents. He stifled judicial independence, cracked down on freedom of speech, and used his power to “intimidate, censor, and prosecute Venezuelans” who opposed his political agenda. Chavez cemented Venezuela’s alliance with Cuba — “the only country in Latin America that systematically represses virtually all forms of political dissent,” Human Rights Watch noted — and vocally backed dictators elsewhere, including Syria’s Bashar Assad and Libya’s Moammar Khadafy.
None of that troubled the ideologues who raced to praise the dead bully. Chavez “understood democracy and basic human desires for a dignified life,” gushed US Representative José Serrano of New York. Former President Jimmy Carter saluted his “commitment to improving the lives of millions of his fellow countrymen.” And former Massachusetts Congressman Joseph Kennedy II, a longtime Chavez booster, eulogized Chavez as a humanitarian who cared about the poor.”
As above linked
Robert Redford, Jane Fonda, Michael Moore, Barbara Streisand, Meryl Streep, Bernie Sanders, Alexandra Occasional Cortex, et al send their warmest red regards
You do know that North Korea is a communist country. Don’t you, Be-A-Straw-Man???
Im beginning to think that you just might be able to beat Sheila Jackson Lee in a Congressional election but youll have to sign a release with David Brock before you get any George Soros monies
Diane sounds like Hank Johnson on Guam: “My fear is that the whole island will become so overly populated that it will tip over and capsize.”
More precisely, a gulag torture starvation slave state. Trump is envious of his “friend.”
Estovir,..
-I think you forgot to mention Sean Penn, another Hollywood poltical genius.
He not only lost Chavez, but his buddy El Chapo is going to be harder to visit now.
Tom, does Estovir strike you as intelligent?
Should every liberal in America be forced to tape a video in which they apologize for every leftist dictator of the 20th Century?
Then, perhaps, we should apologize for every misguided Hollywood celebrity. These apologies would be posted to Facebook, Instagram and Twitter so Trumpers can comment.
And meanwhile Trump himself can cozy up to any loathsome dictator who catches his fancy. ..Go figure..!
25 years of Fox News can create the most peculiar expectations.
My comment was about Sean Penn’s “unusual” views and involvement in political and criminal cases.
If HHHNN wants a big, expansive discussion about world dictators, Fox News, the Peloponnesian League, or whatever, I’ll leave it to others to join Peter and consider his objective analysis😒😏 of his selected topics.
Or, you can always get “the straight story” from his crackerjack media outlet, HHHNN.
tonight we watched “A Quiet Place” which was a terrifying, brilliant and excellent film. As we watched it as a family I kept thinking, why dont aliens come and take the Left?
Alas, in the end, the wife in the movie used a powerful shotgun to blow through the head of an alien, while her daughter helped. Ooorrrahhhh!
I love it when Americans fight back against the Commies! 🙃
Tom, if the American Left had had any cojones when it counted, most of the atrocities commited against humanity by Stalin and Castro alone would have shown the world we Americans mean business. But alas, the Left has never met an atrocity it refuses to rebuke starting with sucking the brains of newly deliverd babies to make sure a womyn’s right to choose death of another is preserved
Face it: Pope John Paul II was right – they are a culture of death… witness the Leftist trolls on her defending abortions post 22 weeks
Estovir,…
There definitely has been a segment of Americans who were willing to overlook or gloss over “the right kind” of atrocities.
In some of the more extreme examples of this mentality, you have people like Pete Seeger, aka “Stalin’s Songbird”, or Paul Robeson.
The most brutal Communist regimes could not ask for more support from Americans than was given by “folk heroes” like Seeger, or towering figures like Robeson.
These are, of course, among the most extreme examples.
An unusually high level of apathy or tolerance for the brutality of Communist regimes was a more common feature of the American left.
Estovir, your replies sound like satirical comments from “Mad” magazine! The over-the-top, fanatical Trumper obsessed with What Abouts. It’s almost like you’re poking fun at other Trumpers on this thread.
I’m supposed to apologize for every liberal in the past 90 years who praised a dictator at some point? That’s how broad you get! Only the most clueless of nerds could think this qualifies as serious commentary.
Estovir, keep in mind that Professor Turley teaches at a fairly prestigious school. His students might be checking this blog from time to time. Don’t let them think their professor is followed by deluded mass-shooter types. Have some consideration.
PETER NEVER HEARD OF REYKJAVIK
Observe Peter’s English utilization. Aside from really awful grammar and adolescent lexicon (e.g. creepy, nerdy, etc), the juxtaposition of words he employs lack are really shallow. No depth in that one.
He and the rest are here because they play to get paid
Someone is not getting his money’s worth.
For me, i would not second guess the tactics of a billionaire real estate developer, and presume to say authoritatively how to negotiate. I am just a humble person and all of my “deals” have been trifles.
But may experts here offer to tutor Trump!
For my part, I doubt it is friendship, rather just rapport
Professor Turley………..I thought his remarks were part of the negotiating. The press brought up the subject, and he had to respond.
He couldn’t publicly call Kim a murderer, torturer, and mad man.
He was there to negotiate a deal, and raw truth is not always a good bargaining chip.
Bending over backwards to exchange pleasantries with Kim did not get Trump a denuclearization deal with N. Korea, either.
P. S. The press is there to bring up almost any number of subjects to which Trump could always choose not to respond.
L4D. …………..Trump did not have a deal, therefore he was still negotiating. See how it works?
If he had not responded, what would the media have done? Ha! Guess.
This must be your first rodeo.
So, your thesis is that Trump’s statement to the media, “I will take [Kim] at his word” was a negotiating tactic because Trump was really negotiating with, or through, the media for North Korean denuclearization. Do I have that right, you old rodeo-hand, cow-girl, you?
” was a negotiating tactic ”
Diane, your comments should stop now as you have enough trouble negotiating yourself around the room in order to get to the bathroom.
Wait a second. “I will take him at his word,” is a negotiating tactic? Or is it a “negotiating strategy”???
This is the guy who has so far only managed to negotiate his surrender to the Mexicans and to Nancy Pelosi.
Amen, Cindy. Puritans make bad negotiators.
mespo….That would make a great bumper sticker!🤗
Billboards, too.
Be sure to post it all across The Bible Belt: “Trump Is No Puritan.”
They already know that.
Late4Din…..That’s why Trump was elected.
Americans were tired of having a King Tut-Tut, who is so PC that he walks around pointing, shaking his finger and tut-tutting at citizens who disagree with his Royal PC-ness. We’re sick of being called racist homophobes, and worse.
Enter Trump.
No need to watch the news when these bombshell news scoops, like “Trump is no Puritan”, keep us all up to date.
Better than that, we learn what Mueller knows, what Trump knows, what Trump knows about what Mueller knows, when Donald Jr. “was” indicted, the sentence Roger Stone will receive, etc., etc.
A women who has already sent one son to GW taught by P Turley I know tonight is asking herself why she would send her 2nd/last son to P Turley after she reads his thoughts on issues in recent years.
I told her, I also don’t understand what has happened. I would now add that it is maybe TDS.
IE: What P Turley? No comment on “Post Birth Abortion AKA Homicide!!!” It’s called Murder & the Phk’ers are Selling the Body Parts Like a Phk’in Auto Salvage Yard * you DC boys are Ph’in Tone deaf to it all I guess or you’re cloated Satanist I suppose. ( How do I use Phin one time? lol, I like to vent)
I suggest 1st you get your heart right with Jesus P Turley, with all do respect.
IE: I don’t think these Blue City freaks, LA, DC, NYC, ChiIraq, etc, do not know what they’ve unleashed here in what they call fly over country which is the real America.
And that’s great for the USA!
BTW: Don’t go writing hot checks in Mississippi or attempting crimes in Oklahoma because as of today Oklahoma is Constitutional Carry.
Keep your east/west coast criminal sh*t out of here. LOL;)
Actually I feel pretty good tonight as I understand it every Okie Guy or Gal that wishes to exercise their Right to Carry Can.
So Blue Cities with their Mad Max Crap, just bring it on.
Oky1 said, “you DC boys are Ph’in Tone deaf to it all I guess or you’re cloated Satanist I suppose.”
Darren Smith said, ” ”
Oky1’s messages brought to you by . . . ” “
Were you attempting to say something?
What’s your team’s message away?
It’s Heil Hitler isn’t it.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=planned+parenthood+undercover
Such tremendous progress. Tremendously tremendous.
North Korea has only increased its nuclear arsenal and its missiles and its facilities in the time since the so-called summit in Singapore.
What fantastically fantastic progress, and successfully successful success, clearly.
And to summarize President We’ll-See-What-Happens’ comments before, during, and after Vietnam: “Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me.”
Kim thought that the guys name was Cold Beer.
Yeah, those North Korean nuclear test missiles are even now flying over Japan, right? You couldn’t negotiate a hotdog and a Coke from a street vendor with twenty bucks and cute dog.
Trump will be resigning on the 4th of March. Mar A Lago is calling.
Jung-un is not King. He’s just chairman. :-})
Kindred spirits. What do you expect?! He believes Putin too.
Check your title for typos. :). Betcha it was that darn autocorrect.